Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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So, Shapechange lets you retain spellcasting, but not class features or feats.
--What if a Feat prepares spells? eg, Fey-Touched. Do you forget those spells? Do you simply not get the free casting for the day while Shapechanged? Or is it all spell-casting?
--Similarly something like Potent Dragonmark - do you unprepare all those spells while shapechanged? Do you lose the bonus spell slot for Mark spells? Or is this all spell-casting?
--What about class features that automatically prepare spells? eg, Cleric Domains, or the Abjurer's Spell Breaker. Do you unprepare the spells?
--Further, if you keep the spells, is the rest of a feature like Spell Breaker part of spellcasting that you retain, because it modifies spellcasting? Can you still cast Dispel Magic as a bonus action, because that's spellcasting? Do you still retain the slot if it or Counterspell fails? Or the illusionists ability to cast illusion spells without verbal components? ie, are these fully independent features, or do they modify (and become part of) spellcasting?
--On the off chance someone with Magic Initiate but no spellcasting feature acquires an item that allows them to shapechange, do they lose their magic initiate spells? Is this different than a character with the spellcasting feature and the Magic Initiate feat?
--Is Ritual Adept part of spellcasting? (Assuming you still have access to your spellbook while shapechanged)
Spellcasting in this context refers to the actual class Feature that's named "Spellcasting".
Sure, but what's part of 'spellcasting'? ie, if you get an ability that modifies spellcasting, that's arguably part of the spellcasting feature, because it's rewriting the feature to the degree that it changes spellcasting.
And you're saying permanently prepared spells aren't part of your spellcasting feature, even though you can cast them with it? So a Cleric's domain spells aren't part of their spellcasting feature? That sounds goofy. (Edit: Similarly, i would understand something like Divine Soul's Divine Magic feature to be pretty explicitly modifying their spellcasting feature.)
I mean, presumably, because you retain proficiencies, you also retain proficiencies you gained because of feats or class features. That doesn't seem any different than spells gained by feats or class features. But are you saying that because Shapechange only says 'proficiencies', you can keep your proficiency in a skill, but not your expertise? That's really weird. I would've said expertise is part of proficiencies.
Would you further say that you don't retain your memory, because Shapechange never explicitly says you do?
(And is Potent Dragonmark's "Dragonmark Spellcasting" not a 'spellcasting feature'? Shapechange never requires it to be a class feature.)
As written, yes. Spellcasting is a specific feature (for example, https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/character-classes-continued#Level1WizardSpellcasting) so anything from elsewhere does not qualify (one unclear point: if you prepare a spell and then lose the feature that causes that spell to be on your spell list, can you still cast the spell?)
This may well not be what's intended; there is a lot of nonsense in level 9 spells because actual playtesting at those levels has always been minimal.
No species traits, either. Some give you known cantrips or prepared spells.
Whether it is intentional or not, maybe it is because the 5.5e Shapechange lost the following line from the 5e Shapechange: "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physically capable of doing so."
EDIT: for clarity.
So you lose Pact Magic as well if you have it?
Technically, yes. Pact Magic is a different feature from Spellcasting and the spell doesn't say Pact Magic is retained.
Some DMs (including me) would probably not feel like splitting hairs that thin in practice and might let you have it.
pronouns: he/she/they
Given that shapeshifting isn't on the warlock list this seems unlikely to come up, but yes.
That's a good point. Warlocks do have access to the somewhat similar True Polymorph but that one explicitly says the target can't cast spells at all while it's transformed.
pronouns: he/she/they
I'd also add that class features, traits, and feats are not retained when true polymorphed: "... The target’s game statistics are replaced by the stat block of the new form, but it retains its Hit Points, Hit Point Dice, alignment, and personality"
Separate but still shapechange related: Do you also adopt proficiencies of the new form? I think so?
"Your game statistics are replaced by the stat block of the chosen form", which would include its proficiencies (including save proficiencies).
And "you retain your creature type; alignment; personality; Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores; Hit Points; Hit Point Dice; proficiencies;...", so you also keep your proficiencies. Note that there's no language which means its exclusive. You "retain" your proficiencies, they don't 'replace' (or similar language) the creature's proficiencies.
(While retaining some things, like your Int/Wis/Cha scores, is necessarily exclusive - you can't have two different Int scores at the same time - there's nothing exclusive about proficiencies. Each proficiency is its own separate thing that you can have or not independently).
Monster stat blocks don't actually have proficiencies, they just have a bonus listed that happens to be identical to if they had the proficiency.
So if the monster has a listed bonus to a skill that looks like a proficiency, and you have proficiency in that skill, do you add your proficiency to their statblock skill bonus?
... what happens if its a skill that depends on int/wis/cha?
No, because proficiency bonuses are applied to ability scores, not statblock entries.
It uses the value in the statblock, even if that is no longer correct due to changed Int/Wis/Cha.
I think the easiest and most sensible way to handle this is to use the paradigm from Wild Shape — i.e., you use either your modifier or the stat block's, whichever is higher, but you don't add them together.
pronouns: he/she/they
If this was about the 'most sensible' way to handle this, I would never have asked a question. lol.
Is that the case? This is from the MM:
In any case, I agree you don't add your proficiencies together with the creature's. You just retain them as an alternative in case you have a better score than the stat block's.
Monster stat blocks never state that the monster is proficient, they just list a skill with a bonus that in my experience corresponds to either proficiency or expertise.
I'm rethinking my own understanding now...
Wild Shape says "... You also retain your skill and saving throw proficiencies and use your Proficiency Bonus for them, in addition to gaining the proficiencies of the creature."
That wording is not present in Shapechange. Remembering some recent threads about Shapechange (*), you probably then don't have that alternative, so you'd use your skill, tool, or saving throw proficiencies in case they overlap.
(*) - Do "proficiencies" include the Proficiency Bonus?
- Shapechange: Spell Save DC and Spell Attack Bonus
- Shapechange/Boon of Fluid forms AC calculations
Not sure if I'm following the reasoning.
When reading the PHB, we also have this:
Under my interpretation, "proficiencies" in the context of Shapechange or Wild Shape is referring to skill, saving throw, or tool proficiencies, with the same meaning for characters and monsters.
EDIT: for clarity.