Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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I have a goliath barbarian who has both the dual wielder feat and brutal grip feat. Can I dual wield two two-handed weapons because of the Goliath large form trait? If not, can I dual wield a two handed weapon and a versatile weapon in my off hand since it qualifies as light under brutal grip? lol..maybe I should make my own separate post for this question.
I have a goliath barbarian who has both the dual wielder feat and brutal grip feat. Can I dual wield two two-handed weapons because of the Goliath large form trait? If not, can I dual wield a two handed weapon and a versatile weapon in my off hand since it qualifies as light under brutal grip? I think this question is intriguing because under brutal grip I CAN wield a two handed weapon with a single hand and at the same time my large form can treat two handed weapons as a regular weapon. So I'm kinda thinking that at the very least the two handed weapon in your main hand and the versatile weapon the off hand is going to pass scrutiny. I await everyone's judgment!
As written, Goliath's Large Form trait has no effect on how you wield weapons. I don't know brutal grip, so I can only go by what you've said.
Based on that, If you can wield two-handed weapons in one hand, then you can fight with one in each hand. If a versatile weapon counts as light, then you can (probably) take advantage of Dual Wielder's bonus action attack after attacking normally with a versatile weapon.
Whether you can then take your bonus action attack with a two-handed weapon wielded in one hand depends on either:
DW says the weapon you use for the BA attack can't have the two-handed property, but whether the 2H weapon you're using really counts as two-handed under the circumstances is a matter of interpretation.
I can't see any way from what you've given us that you'd be able to get a BA attack with a 2H weapon in each hand. (You can presumably wield them; you just get no mechanical benefit from doing so.)
Dual Wielder feat explicitly states that not only the main weapon must have the Light property, but also the secondary weapon must lack the Two-Handed property. So Dual Wielder will not work with a Two-Handed weapon in one hand and a Versatile weapon in the other, even if you have Brutal Grip.
And the Light property in your Versatile weapon won't work either, because you need both weapons to have the Light property in order to make an attack with your Bonus Action in the first place.
What you can do with Brutal Grip is have 1 versatile weapon in each hand and dual wield them.
Large Form does not say anything about wielding two-handed weapons in one hand, so that's not a thing you can do.
Brutal Grip would allow you to effectively dual-wield two Versatile weapons at the same time, but not two two-handed weapons.
If you have a question, it's always better to create a new thread for that question than to attach it to the end of an existing unrelated thread.
pronouns: he/she/they
Here is the exact description of dual wielder in dnd beyond:
Dual wielder
You master fighting with two weapons, gaining the following benefits:
No where in that description does it say that BOTH weapons need to be light. In fact, line 2 says explicitly that you can use two-weapon fighting even when the one-handed melee weapon ISN'T light. I completely agree with you with Brutal grip though. I think the likely consensus is that you can use a two handed weapon with your main hand and a versatile weapon with your off hand. Once again, the description that I placed here is straight from dnd beyond's description of dual wielder so there's no ambiguity.
But all that being said the idea of dual wielding two two handed weapons is dead...lol. I bow to the group that it can't be done.
Yes, that is the description of the 5e version of Dual Wielder. Nothing in it says you can use a two-handed weapon with only one hand, so you can't dual-wield a two-handed weapon and a versatile weapon. Where are you getting that from?
pronouns: he/she/they
The brutal grip feat. Let me find and post it here so we will all be on the same page because this discussion isn't about one feat, it's about two. Both the Brutal grip and dual wielder seem to have synergy.
Brutal Grip
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Strength 13+)
You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Heavy Duelist. You can wield a Melee weapon with the Two-Handed property in one hand.
Versatile Dual Wielder. While wielding a Melee weapon with the Versatile property in one hand, the weapon has the Light property for you.
As you can see both points that I was trying to make is under one feat, my barbarian happens to have BOTH the dual wielder and the Brutal Grip feats. As such as it states in the Heavy Duelist, I can wield a Melee weapon with the Two-Handed property in one hand. Within the SAME feat description, it says that I can dual wield a versatile weapon as it has the Light property for me. Therefore, I can wield a Two-Handed weapon with my main hand and a versatile weapon in my off hand. Like my dual wielder description before, Brutal Grip's description is taken straight off of Dnd beyond's description copied and pasted so there's no disputing what it says. Now Dual wielder states that it in it's second line that I can use two weapon fighting even though the melee weapon isn't light. The only requirement is that it is one handed with I can one hand a Two-handed weapon with Brutal Grip. So since a versatile weapon is light to me, I should be able to use a versatile weapon with the BA in my off hand. I kinda don't understand what's the uproar about that part, but I think it's a conversation worth having!
Okay, with that in mind then, under the 5e rules it sounds like you might have an argument in favor of being able to dual-wield a two-handed weapon and a versatile weapon. (One could argue that Brutal Grip doesn't actually make the weapon one-handed, but that's probably splitting a hair too thin to be reasonable.) In this case you'd technically have to make the first attack with the Versatile weapon, and the extra attack with the two-handed weapon.
It definitely does not work under the 5.5e rules, since the first attack has to be with a Light weapon, and 5.5e Dual Wielder says the extra attack can't be with a two-handed weapon.
pronouns: he/she/they
I'm not really familiar with the 5.5e rules yet so maybe that's where some of the other people are coming from. First of all, thanks for hearing me out. I really thought this was a point that could be made for certain builds for certain systems. My only question is why wouldn't you keep the two handed weapon as your main hand and keep the versatile weapon as your light weapon in your off hand? I think you may be hitting a crucial point that I may have missed somewhere. And I'm only talking about 5e rules not 5.5e. With 5.5e, I've never played it so I'm not going to pretend that I understand the rules there. Thanks...lol!
This actually is the problem if we're looking for the RAW answer.
Brutal Grip:
Dual Wielder (2014):
Two-Weapon Fighting (2014):
Your Feat allows you to wield a two-handed weapon with one hand, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still a two-handed weapon. Dual Wielder requires that both of the weapons that you are wielding for the purposes of Two-Weapon Fighting are one-handed melee weapons. Your two-handed weapons do not qualify. The best that you can do is to wield one versatile weapon in each hand.
In my opinion, this was intentional wording. You are meant to be able to sword-and-board with a two-handed weapon but be unable to use Two-Weapon Fighting with two two-handed weapons.
Hmmm...Accepted! So it is the wielding of one versatile weapon in each hand such as a bastard sword. Final question would two versatile weapons dual wielding hold up in 5.5e rules?
I disagree. The weapon is wielded in one hand. Therefore, it's a one-handed weapon, even though it has the two-handed property.
It can't be intentional wording, because the ability that makes the question possible is from a third-party source.
I don't know 2014 5e weapons, but it appears all of them.
But don't forget you have weapon masteries in 5.5e so if you hit with a battle ax, and put him prone, you have an advantage with your longsword. Which if it hits, can give you advantage next turn using the battle ax.
Rinse wash repeat.
Having advantage and increasing your chance to hit every turn with a smaller damage dice, might end up doing more damage than using larger dice 2 handed weapons.
I guess the jury is still out on the Two-handed weapon/ versatile, but no one so far is questioning the versatile/versatile with both dual wielding and brutal grip! It's progress and I agree. I just have to change up the masteries (I took the opportunity to catch up on 5.5e because I don't like not knowing...lol). So I guess with the Two handed weapon/ versatile right now it's DM's discretion. For me, I still lean to it being acceptable because of the wordplay of "treated as a light weapon for versatile" and "two-handed weapons can be wielded one-handed", but if someone argued against it, it wouldn't shock me. I just think we need a consensus or clarification.
There's no such thing, by definition.
This is like saying that I use my longsword to bonk someone in the head with its hilt. Therefore, it's a club.
"I guess the jury is still out on the Two-handed weapon/ versatile, ..."
Are we reading the same posts? I believe it is 100% no 2 handed weapon can be used with a 2nd weapon.
At best you use the 2 handed weapon in one hand with a shield.
I assumed you were using 2024 rules, not 2014.
RAW Dual Wielder 2024: no.
RAW Dual Wielder 2014: yes, because the "no Two-Handed weapon" mention wasn't there yet. The "one-handed" in that description refers to a state, not a property. There's no such thing as a "one-handed" property on weapons, either in 2014 or 2024.
Which is probably why they clarified the writing in 2024.
Let me clarify, in the 2024 5.5e system, dual wielding with a two-handed weapon is NOT possible. However, if you are playing 2014 5e system, it is with a versatile weapon. The best that we can hope for is two versatile weapons in the 2024 5.5e system because BOTH weapons are considered light. Can we all agree with this at least? If I were in the 5.5e system, I'm perfectly fine going two-handed weapon plus shield. It doesn't effect the barbarian no armor feat. I would also be fine as another person said to go with two versatile weapons because with the barbarian weapon masteries, It's beastly. Hopefully, this is clearer on my stance. The only reason why I said the jury is still out on the THW/Versatile dual wielding is strictly for the 2014 version and it should be a DM's judgment call.
This is an edit add in because some people are going to skip over context. What is said here only applies to those who have both the Brutal Grip and Dual weapon feats. Not one or the other but both!
This sort of interaction has been discussed before in other topics.
Basically, one feature says that you can "use" a thing "as a" widget.
Another feature requires that something "is a" widget. In other words, the feature only applies to widgets, not things.
When this happens, by RAW, these two features do not synergize. It's tempting to squint really hard and kinda sorta make it fit. But really it just doesn't work.