I still struggle with figuring out which ability check is appropriate for which situation – especially Perception vs. Investigation when searching for stuff.
For example, what would the check typically be for searching a dead enemy for useful items? Perception or Investigation?
I understand that these common situations typically call for a Perception check: - Actively searching for a potential ambush - Looking for secret doors - Looking for traps on a chest - Listening at a door
I understand that other common situations typically call for an Investigation check: - Trying to determine how an animal was killed (...or would this be Medicine?) - Taking a closer look at an old book lying on a table for useful information (...I think?)
What about something like digging into a rubble heap, looking for any useful items? Or, as mentioned above, what about looting a body?
Finally, in which of these situations would group checks, “working together”, or the Help action be applicable?
Perception when you use your 5 senses to find something, investigation when you use your brain to find something.
Group checks are for when members can help each other with mistakes and, in the end, the whole group succeeds or fails. Survival checks in hostile terrain is the prime example of this. Help action can be used any time more than one person can work on a problem and either of them has the potential to solve it alone.
With Investigation vs Perception. Mostly I think the player should roll thier better stat most of the time.
I think Lunali point is good.
Say for example two characters are searching a room.
Perception is looking for a tell or rifling through draws until he finds what he's looking for.
Investigation is saying "If I were going to hide something important where would it be?"
Both should work and be applicable. Now perception is probably going to help you detect an ambush. Even then perception would be about noticing a hidden attacker, Investigation would be about realizing THIS is where an ambush would be perfect... And expecting it.
I use perception when characters are trying to discover something they aren't aware of. I use investigation when characters are trying to check out something they are aware of.
Yea I always thought of perception as trying to sense something you don't know about and investigation is when you're actually inspecting something closely.
Perception tends to be used in more "generalized" situations: looking for ambushes, searching for hidden doors, spotting a trap, etc. It can also be used to search for specific things, in a general manner (tossing a room).
Investigation tends to be used in more specific situations that involve deciphering how something functions. For example, you could use Perception to make a mess of a Wizard's study looking for a specific tome they're hiding, but it won't help you with deciphering the tome. You found a hidden door through Perception, but now you have to figure out how to open it. Investigation!
Investigation can be used to find things, but the scope is far more limited than Perception. You've tossed the Wizard's study to no avail, but you find the Wizard's desk to be suspicious. You use Investigation to search the desk from top to bottom specifically looking for things like hidden compartments, latches, switches, arcane sigils, etc. that may be concealing the tome you're after.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
You found a hidden door through Perception, but now you have to figure out how to open it. Investigation!
I personally hate this outlook. Because it's MAD as hell and requires too many skills to do 1 task.
Perception and Investigation should be about having more tools to solve problems and allowing different characters to succeed, not requiring every character to spend more of a very very limited pool of skill points. Most characters have 4, FOUR, skills. This thinking would require that character to spend half their skill points just to be good at "Finding things".
It's almost like D&D is a cooperative group activity 😁
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
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I still struggle with figuring out which ability check is appropriate for which situation – especially Perception vs. Investigation when searching for stuff.
For example, what would the check typically be for searching a dead enemy for useful items? Perception or Investigation?
I understand that these common situations typically call for a Perception check:
- Actively searching for a potential ambush
- Looking for secret doors
- Looking for traps on a chest
- Listening at a door
I understand that other common situations typically call for an Investigation check:
- Trying to determine how an animal was killed (...or would this be Medicine?)
- Taking a closer look at an old book lying on a table for useful information (...I think?)
What about something like digging into a rubble heap, looking for any useful items?
Or, as mentioned above, what about looting a body?
Finally, in which of these situations would group checks, “working together”, or the Help action be applicable?
Thanks!
Perception when you use your 5 senses to find something, investigation when you use your brain to find something.
Group checks are for when members can help each other with mistakes and, in the end, the whole group succeeds or fails. Survival checks in hostile terrain is the prime example of this. Help action can be used any time more than one person can work on a problem and either of them has the potential to solve it alone.
With Investigation vs Perception. Mostly I think the player should roll thier better stat most of the time.
I think Lunali point is good.
Say for example two characters are searching a room.
Perception is looking for a tell or rifling through draws until he finds what he's looking for.
Investigation is saying "If I were going to hide something important where would it be?"
Both should work and be applicable. Now perception is probably going to help you detect an ambush. Even then perception would be about noticing a hidden attacker, Investigation would be about realizing THIS is where an ambush would be perfect... And expecting it.
I think often both Perception and Investigation would be appropriate to use. They are both information gathering, they just take different approaches.
So the DM might choose between Perception or Investigation depending upon how the character phrased it?
I use perception when characters are trying to discover something they aren't aware of. I use investigation when characters are trying to check out something they are aware of.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yea I always thought of perception as trying to sense something you don't know about and investigation is when you're actually inspecting something closely.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Perception tends to be used in more "generalized" situations: looking for ambushes, searching for hidden doors, spotting a trap, etc. It can also be used to search for specific things, in a general manner (tossing a room).
Investigation tends to be used in more specific situations that involve deciphering how something functions. For example, you could use Perception to make a mess of a Wizard's study looking for a specific tome they're hiding, but it won't help you with deciphering the tome. You found a hidden door through Perception, but now you have to figure out how to open it. Investigation!
Investigation can be used to find things, but the scope is far more limited than Perception. You've tossed the Wizard's study to no avail, but you find the Wizard's desk to be suspicious. You use Investigation to search the desk from top to bottom specifically looking for things like hidden compartments, latches, switches, arcane sigils, etc. that may be concealing the tome you're after.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I personally hate this outlook. Because it's MAD as hell and requires too many skills to do 1 task.
Perception and Investigation should be about having more tools to solve problems and allowing different characters to succeed, not requiring every character to spend more of a very very limited pool of skill points. Most characters have 4, FOUR, skills. This thinking would require that character to spend half their skill points just to be good at "Finding things".
But one person can do the perceiving and another the investigating. Each character plays to their strengths that way.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
It's almost like D&D is a cooperative group activity 😁
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.