Hello! I'm in this campaign where my party at level 1 had tamed a Mammoth to be their mount. After getting some more gold, I had purchased a Bit and Bridle, and a Pack Saddle for said mammoth (whose name is now Durant). Question is: How much stuff does that actually let Durant carry? Sure, I did the math, and he can carry a total of 1,440 lbs without being encumbered, but where does the pack saddle fit into that?
Wierdly, saddle packs don't have an official capacity. But both backpacks and sacks can hold 1 cubic foot of equipment weighing no more than 30 lb. So I would base it on that, doubling it at most.
As a DM I would assume you told them you wanted a pack saddle for a mammoth. I assume you paid an appropriate cost. And then I'd figure the pack saddle allows you to load that beast with at least half his carrying capacity inside saddle bags. It is up to your DM at the end of the day.
Okay, so I looked up some info on the containers and just made a guess based on what numbers I could see.
PHB - Chapter 5: Equipment - Mounts and Vehicles - Tack, Harness, and Drawn Vehicles Saddlebags cost 4 gp and weigh 8 lbs
PHB - Chapter 5: Equipment - Adventuring Gear - Other Adventuring Gear Backpack costs 2 gp and weighs 5 lbs
PHB - Chapter 5: Equipment - Adventuring Gear - Container Capacity Backpack holds 1 cubic foot/30 pounds of gear. *Some items can be strapped to the outside*
So since a set of saddlebags costs twice as much and weighs close enough to twice as much (keep in mind that the material probably doesn't double, but the space inside could) I would say that a set of saddlebags would carry double what a human's backpack would. For an animal that big, I would say that the players can just keep buying more saddlebags for the thing to carry more until it seems silly to you.
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Good luck and may you roll 20's when you need them and 1's when you need a laugh. - myself
I could be wrong but there is a difference between a pack saddle and saddle bags. Rather than bags on the side of Durrant, the pack saddle is a bunch of guarding mounted to your mammoth in order to brace the load (such as a basket to brace a crate). Given that, the pack saddle on such a huge animal could be reinforced into a Howdah (Ogre Howdah for example), though you'd have less weight for it to hold.
For just the weight of the saddle, though I do not see it written RAW, I would say add the size modifier to the weight. (Ask your DM how they want to deal with cost and weight inflation)
(Mammoth Strength:24 X Carrying Capacity:15 X Size Modifier (Huge):4 ) - (Pack Saddle Weight:15 X Size Modifier:4)
24x15x4= 1440 - 15x4=60
1440-60= 1 380 lbs.
However, this would not provide any safety features or security (requiring your group to buy and mount chairs as well. If you'd like to fortify it like a Howdah, then your DM might be inclined to look in the DMG under the Strongholds section. I found this interesting line:
A small estate might sell for as little as 100 gp
Pulling in the Ogre Howdah's description, XGE's statement that items cost half the selling price, and Basic Rules Cost Guide (materials are included in cost)
Mammoth Pack Saddle: Weight: 60lbs Cost: 20gp Special item building time 5 days
Mammoth Howdah: AC15 (3/4 cover) Weight: 600lbs (using Carriage being the same cost) Cost: 100gp S.I.B.T: 30 days.
An exotic saddle is like a normal saddle of the same sort except that it is designed for an unusual mount. Exotic saddles come in military, pack, and riding styles.
Military
A military saddle braces the rider, providing a +2 circumstance bonus on Ride checks related to staying in the saddle. If you’re knocked unconscious while in a military saddle, you have a 75% chance to stay in the saddle (compared to 50% for a riding saddle).
Pack
A pack saddle holds gear and supplies, but not a rider. It holds as much gear as the mount can carry.
If I had a horse, and wanted to ride them and carry saddlebags.... Do I need both pack and saddle and saddle bags or just the saddle and saddlebags? This is killing my brain.
Just the saddle for you and the saddle bags go on each side to balance the weight. They are normally thrown over the back of the horse behind the saddle and tied to the saddle to keep it on.
Cowboys also used to tie their bed roll to the top
Normal saddle bags only held about a square foot of stuff on each side but they were also custom made and could go up in size to the comfort of the horse.
Sometimes they were just simple bags of the same size and weight tied together over the top of the horse either in front of or behind the saddle.
For a mammoth I would go with a HUGE packsaddle custom made. A wicker seat or two attached to each side and and everyones gear tied off to the rest of the saddle.
But think of the smell. Everytime it got wet it would smell like a pack of wet dogs was laying on top of you. If you had three people combing out the fur you could weave a 10 man tent out of the stuff at least once a year. And you would have to. Upkeep would be a massive expense compared to a horse.
As for a bit it would be easier to just use a rope tied to each tusk. A bit large enough would hard to apply and might cause the animal distress and trouble eating when in. They need trained to it.
If I had a horse, and wanted to ride them and carry saddlebags.... Do I need both pack and saddle and saddle bags or just the saddle and saddlebags? This is killing my brain.
We don't have rules for this, so you should ask your DM. My best guess is that the intent of the rules is that you only need a riding saddle and saddlebags for the horse to carry 1 rider and objects up to its carrying capacity, with the intent being that with a pack saddle, it's only the objects.
Costs aside for an exotic saddle, or the encumbrance rules for strength... the answer to your question is very simple: As much as your GM deems it can carry.
If you are the GM, its up to you. Keep in mind that the Strength/Weight rules are for just that, straight weight. Large and bulky items may not fit easily into bags, even those designed for a Mammoth. Many house rules count very large/long/bulky items to have an effective encumbrance 2x, 5x, 10x or more. In the end use as much of the weight and encumberance rules as fun for your game.
If you are the player, expect your GM to rule with some of the above information.
And remember, its called Dungeon's and Dragon's not Movers of Heavy Objects and Porters of Bulky Goods... no one wants to play that game (unless you are running a business themed campaign and need to know how many barrels of rare dwarven ale you can lug down to Baulder's Gate for the Baron.)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
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Hello! I'm in this campaign where my party at level 1 had tamed a Mammoth to be their mount. After getting some more gold, I had purchased a Bit and Bridle, and a Pack Saddle for said mammoth (whose name is now Durant). Question is: How much stuff does that actually let Durant carry? Sure, I did the math, and he can carry a total of 1,440 lbs without being encumbered, but where does the pack saddle fit into that?
Wierdly, saddle packs don't have an official capacity. But both backpacks and sacks can hold 1 cubic foot of equipment weighing no more than 30 lb. So I would base it on that, doubling it at most.
As a DM I would assume you told them you wanted a pack saddle for a mammoth. I assume you paid an appropriate cost. And then I'd figure the pack saddle allows you to load that beast with at least half his carrying capacity inside saddle bags. It is up to your DM at the end of the day.
Okay, so I looked up some info on the containers and just made a guess based on what numbers I could see.
PHB - Chapter 5: Equipment - Mounts and Vehicles - Tack, Harness, and Drawn Vehicles
Saddlebags cost 4 gp and weigh 8 lbs
PHB - Chapter 5: Equipment - Adventuring Gear - Other Adventuring Gear
Backpack costs 2 gp and weighs 5 lbs
PHB - Chapter 5: Equipment - Adventuring Gear - Container Capacity
Backpack holds 1 cubic foot/30 pounds of gear. *Some items can be strapped to the outside*
So since a set of saddlebags costs twice as much and weighs close enough to twice as much (keep in mind that the material probably doesn't double, but the space inside could) I would say that a set of saddlebags would carry double what a human's backpack would. For an animal that big, I would say that the players can just keep buying more saddlebags for the thing to carry more until it seems silly to you.
Good luck and may you roll 20's when you need them and 1's when you need a laugh. - myself
Golemere's conclusion makes sense to me.
I could be wrong but there is a difference between a pack saddle and saddle bags. Rather than bags on the side of Durrant, the pack saddle is a bunch of guarding mounted to your mammoth in order to brace the load (such as a basket to brace a crate). Given that, the pack saddle on such a huge animal could be reinforced into a Howdah (Ogre Howdah for example), though you'd have less weight for it to hold.
For just the weight of the saddle, though I do not see it written RAW, I would say add the size modifier to the weight. (Ask your DM how they want to deal with cost and weight inflation)
However, this would not provide any safety features or security (requiring your group to buy and mount chairs as well. If you'd like to fortify it like a Howdah, then your DM might be inclined to look in the DMG under the Strongholds section. I found this interesting line:
A small estate might sell for as little as 100 gp
Pulling in the Ogre Howdah's description, XGE's statement that items cost half the selling price, and Basic Rules Cost Guide (materials are included in cost)
Here is what 3.5 had for saddles
Saddles
Exotic
An exotic saddle is like a normal saddle of the same sort except that it is designed for an unusual mount. Exotic saddles come in military, pack, and riding styles.
Military
A military saddle braces the rider, providing a +2 circumstance bonus on Ride checks related to staying in the saddle. If you’re knocked unconscious while in a military saddle, you have a 75% chance to stay in the saddle (compared to 50% for a riding saddle).
Pack
A pack saddle holds gear and supplies, but not a rider. It holds as much gear as the mount can carry.
Riding
The standard riding saddle supports a rider.
So the mammoth is the Rob Liefeld mount. Saddlebags... Saddlebags everywhere.
If I had a horse, and wanted to ride them and carry saddlebags.... Do I need both pack and saddle and saddle bags or just the saddle and saddlebags? This is killing my brain.
Just the saddle for you and the saddle bags go on each side to balance the weight. They are normally thrown over the back of the horse behind the saddle and tied to the saddle to keep it on.
Cowboys also used to tie their bed roll to the top
Normal saddle bags only held about a square foot of stuff on each side but they were also custom made and could go up in size to the comfort of the horse.
Sometimes they were just simple bags of the same size and weight tied together over the top of the horse either in front of or behind the saddle.
For a mammoth I would go with a HUGE packsaddle custom made. A wicker seat or two attached to each side and and everyones gear tied off to the rest of the saddle.
But think of the smell. Everytime it got wet it would smell like a pack of wet dogs was laying on top of you. If you had three people combing out the fur you could weave a 10 man tent out of the stuff at least once a year. And you would have to. Upkeep would be a massive expense compared to a horse.
As for a bit it would be easier to just use a rope tied to each tusk. A bit large enough would hard to apply and might cause the animal distress and trouble eating when in. They need trained to it.
We don't have rules for this, so you should ask your DM. My best guess is that the intent of the rules is that you only need a riding saddle and saddlebags for the horse to carry 1 rider and objects up to its carrying capacity, with the intent being that with a pack saddle, it's only the objects.
Costs aside for an exotic saddle, or the encumbrance rules for strength... the answer to your question is very simple: As much as your GM deems it can carry.
If you are the GM, its up to you. Keep in mind that the Strength/Weight rules are for just that, straight weight. Large and bulky items may not fit easily into bags, even those designed for a Mammoth. Many house rules count very large/long/bulky items to have an effective encumbrance 2x, 5x, 10x or more. In the end use as much of the weight and encumberance rules as fun for your game.
If you are the player, expect your GM to rule with some of the above information.
And remember, its called Dungeon's and Dragon's not Movers of Heavy Objects and Porters of Bulky Goods... no one wants to play that game (unless you are running a business themed campaign and need to know how many barrels of rare dwarven ale you can lug down to Baulder's Gate for the Baron.)
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.