The glossary for the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron actually says "Changeling. A race of shapeshifters...".
If WotC gets around to making a Changeling NPC, I'll expect it to have the "Shapeshifter" tag.
And they did so (here): "Changeling Medium humanoid (changeling, shapechanger)"
But up until this: we had rely on inference, which can be subjective. We were all just trying to provide the best advice we could, given the context.
My question was about the name of the racial feature being discussed: was it "shapechanger" in the previous versions of Wafinder's Guide before RftLW came out?
Thanks for your quick and easy to understand reply that answered my question! So now we have it: Before it was a feature described changing shapes without describing you as a shapechanger. Now we have a feature that is called Shapechanger, which means that having it makes you a shapechanger which counts for all other features that key off of that.
That's certainly how it looks to me. Contrast that with the current feature description...
Shapechanger. As an action, you can change your appearance and your voice. You determine the specifics of the changes, including your coloration, hair length, and sex. You can also adjust your height and weight, but not so much that your size changes. You can make yourself appear as a member of another race, though none of your game statistics change. You can’t duplicate the appearance of a creature you’ve never seen, and you must adopt a form that has the same basic arrangement of limbs that you have. Your clothing and equipment aren’t changed by this trait.
You stay in the new form until you use an action to revert to your true form or until you die.
...and it's hard to see any explanation other than they wanted to reclassify the changer as a proper shapechanger
Here's a challenge for those that think that a Changeling isn't a shapechanger merely because its racial entry doesn't tell you it is: prove to me that PC Dwarf is a humanoid eligible to be targeted by Charm Person.
Every character belongs to a race, one of the many intelligent humanoid species in the D&D world....
Is that small mention in passing enough? But what about the fact that Centaurs are not humanoids? You won't find mention of humanoids anywhere in the Chapter 2 races, or in any of the Racie's features at all (other than Centaur telling you they're not humanoid in their racial features, and some weird races like Warforged telling you that they arehumanoid in their fluff intros)... is that one small sentence in the PHB Chapter 1 (which is incorrect) really enough to pin an unwritten rule on that PCs are humanoids?
Well, you say, we don't need an unwritten rule that PCs are humanoids... because we can look at the monster manual to find that to be true! From the MM introduction:
Humanoids are the main peoples of the D&D world, both civilized and savage, including humans and a tremendous variety of other species. They have language and culture, few if any innate magical abilities (though most humanoids can learn spellcasting), and a bipedal form. The most common humanoid races are the ones most suitable as player characters: humans, dwarves, elves, and halflings. Almost as numerous but far more savage and brutal, and almost uniformly evil, are the races of goblinoids (goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears), orcs, gnolls, lizardfolk, and kobolds.
A variety of humanoids appear throughout this book, but the races detailed in the Player’s Handbook — with the exception of drow — are dealt with in appendix B. That appendix gives you a number of stat blocks that you can use to make various members of those races.
OK, great, still doesn't really tell us specifically whether non-PHB races are humanoid, nor does it address the fact that some PC races have one type while their MM equivalent have another (see Centaur, Minotaur). It's pretty weak to hang an entire assumption that PCs are generally humanoids on.
I think that the "passing mention" in that description of all races does exactly what you say: makes all the races humanoid. Then we have a few other exceptions... that say "rather than humanoid." Those things combine exactly to make it at least seem like the default is humanoid. It seems like some evidence. Whether it is enough for you, I do not know.
But with that being said, in the published text in the newer Eberon book, changelings were apparently given the "shapechanger" trait which it seems makes them count as shapechangers.
It ISNT mentioned in all the races though. Aasimar, Genasi... nothing but unwritten assumptions.
You quoted the line from the PHB that says every player character race is humanoid. The mention is only required when a race isn't humanoid, a la the centaur's fey trait.
That said, on the topic of changelings, the racial entry does tell you they're shapechangers (which is a subtype; changelings are still humanoids).
It ISNT mentioned in all the races though. Aasimar, Genasi... nothing but unwritten assumptions.
But the problem with that logic is that it's also not mentioned for humans (unless it is mentioned on paper, a ctrl-f on human on this site gave zero matches). This is a place where I'd have to say the rules probably intend humans to be humanoid, but the only way that we'd know that is the route that you think doesn't provide enough support for Aasimar or Genasi.
yes they are. during character creation on the race page it specifically says they're shapechanger it's literally the name of the ability it describes... under racial traits..
when the literal racial traits declare the race is a shapechanger..
They don't do that.
PC Changelings have all of the following racial traits. None of these traits with name X declare the Changeling to be an X, as you are claiming. If you want to instead claim that a member of a PC race is X for all X such that X is a trait on that race, you should ideally provide a rules reference for the claim. I will syntactically present the traits to match your apparent claim, that a Changeling is all of its traits.
ERLW/WGE: A Changeling is an Age, an Alignment, a Size, a Shapechanger, a Changeling Instincts, and a Languages.
MPMM: A Changeling is a Creature Type, a Size, a Shapechanger, a Changeling Instincts, and a Languages.
If you want an example of a trait that does declare a Changeling to be an X for some X, the MPMM entry's trait "Creature Type" states that a Changeling is a Fey. Neither of the PC Changeling entries I listed above has a trait similarly stating that a Changeling is a Shapeshifter.
Of course, the MPMM entry is newer than this entire thread, because you dug up an ancient conversation rather than start a new one.
Neither of the PC Changeling entries I listed above has a trait similarly stating that a Changeling is a Shapeshifter.
Jeremy Crawford has stated in sageadvice.eu/changeling-is-a-shapechanger that "In Eberron, changelings have the Shapechanger trait. That means a changeling is, indeed, a shapechanger".
it wasn't an attempt to be rude, it was actually meant to be instructive... there too many people replying as if they know 100% here when they haven't bothered or don't know.. when the literal racial traits declare the race is a shapechanger.. this is a case of people speaking up when they have nothing valuable to add(especially since it's the majority and the only forum I've found on this particular topic).. there's really not a good excuse to be misleading people (even if it's not intended) when it's just about the first thing in the page.. it makes for too much clutter for when others are looking for the correct answer.. and the fact that you brought this point to how you feel about it wasting others time over poignant info is sad and just as unnecessary..
but thanks for the welcome
Mate, we have RAI today that was not present back when this thread was actually relevant so you coming in here and telling people from 2+ years ago that they "need to start paying attention more" is very unhelpful.
Changelings have a feature called "Shapechanger" but their creature type is actually Fey (formerly Humanoid). Thanks to JC's RAI we know that, in Eberron specifically, they do count as Shapechangers due to the aforementioned feature.
it wasn't an attempt to be rude, it was actually meant to be instructive... there too many people replying as if they know 100% here when they haven't bothered or don't know.. when the literal racial traits declare the race is a shapechanger.. this is a case of people speaking up when they have nothing valuable to add(especially since it's the majority and the only forum I've found on this particular topic).. there's really not a good excuse to be misleading people (even if it's not intended) when it's just about the first thing in the page.. it makes for too much clutter for when others are looking for the correct answer.. and the fact that you brought this point to how you feel about it wasting others time over poignant info is sad and just as unnecessary..
Reviewing this thread: three years ago the original issue was brought up because the changeling playtest rules did not contain the shapeshift tag. Two years ago, the official rules added the tag (possible due to the discussion here), and this thread was resolved, until you responded three days ago without reading the thread.
For those concerned about time it was there back when this forum was initially active(you're not the only one to point that out..). the only reason I brought it up now is because I had someone I play with ask then bring this place up as a source (this being the only one short of the character creation page.) as to why they aren't after I told them they are. y'all are way too bend out of shape for pointless reasons.. like I said it's ACTUALLY not meant in a mean spirited way(I get that text isn't a perfect medium) but when you don't know don't bother pretending you do... it only muddies the water for those who also don't know. And yes I did read the thread how else do you think I noticed that more often people were pointing out they aren't when they are.. just end the pointlessness of this added thread here.. I'm tired of seeing notifications over this.
Actually, this is why it shows as having a Shapechanger trait:
Because one of its features is called Shapechanger. But we already know that just because one of the racial features is named a certain way doesn't mean the creature's type is affected (ie. Fey Ancestry).
It was JCs RAI on Twitter from Dec 2019 that stated definitively that, in Eberron, they are Shapechangers and would be affected/unaffected by things that can/cannot affect Shapechangers.
My question was about the name of the racial feature being discussed: was it "shapechanger" in the previous versions of Wafinder's Guide before RftLW came out?
Here is the feature as it appeared in the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron:
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Thanks for your quick and easy to understand reply that answered my question! So now we have it: Before it was a feature described changing shapes without describing you as a shapechanger. Now we have a feature that is called Shapechanger, which means that having it makes you a shapechanger which counts for all other features that key off of that.
That's certainly how it looks to me. Contrast that with the current feature description...
...and it's hard to see any explanation other than they wanted to reclassify the changer as a proper shapechanger
"Not all those who wander are lost"
When you look up the changeling on dnd beyond in the Monster section, you will find that discriptor
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/changeling
Here's a challenge for those that think that a Changeling isn't a shapechanger merely because its racial entry doesn't tell you it is: prove to me that PC Dwarf is a humanoid eligible to be targeted by Charm Person.
In PHB Chapter 1, we have this text:
Is that small mention in passing enough? But what about the fact that Centaurs are not humanoids? You won't find mention of humanoids anywhere in the Chapter 2 races, or in any of the Racie's features at all (other than Centaur telling you they're not humanoid in their racial features, and some weird races like Warforged telling you that they are humanoid in their fluff intros)... is that one small sentence in the PHB Chapter 1 (which is incorrect) really enough to pin an unwritten rule on that PCs are humanoids?
Well, you say, we don't need an unwritten rule that PCs are humanoids... because we can look at the monster manual to find that to be true! From the MM introduction:
OK, great, still doesn't really tell us specifically whether non-PHB races are humanoid, nor does it address the fact that some PC races have one type while their MM equivalent have another (see Centaur, Minotaur). It's pretty weak to hang an entire assumption that PCs are generally humanoids on.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I think that the "passing mention" in that description of all races does exactly what you say: makes all the races humanoid. Then we have a few other exceptions... that say "rather than humanoid." Those things combine exactly to make it at least seem like the default is humanoid. It seems like some evidence. Whether it is enough for you, I do not know.
But with that being said, in the published text in the newer Eberon book, changelings were apparently given the "shapechanger" trait which it seems makes them count as shapechangers.
It ISNT mentioned in all the races though. Aasimar, Genasi... nothing but unwritten assumptions.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
You quoted the line from the PHB that says every player character race is humanoid. The mention is only required when a race isn't humanoid, a la the centaur's fey trait.
That said, on the topic of changelings, the racial entry does tell you they're shapechangers (which is a subtype; changelings are still humanoids).
Yeah, it just feels odd for that rule to be mentioned only one time, with so little fanfare, and not in the “races” chapter.
Then again, the XP/level/proficiency bonus table is hidden in Chapter 1 too, so I guess it isn’t fair to say Chapter 1 isn’t for laying out rules.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Changeling Race has this line:
Shapechanger.
Changeling Monster has this line:
Medium humanoid (changeling, shapechanger), any alignment
Changelings are Shapechangers.
But the problem with that logic is that it's also not mentioned for humans (unless it is mentioned on paper, a ctrl-f on human on this site gave zero matches). This is a place where I'd have to say the rules probably intend humans to be humanoid, but the only way that we'd know that is the route that you think doesn't provide enough support for Aasimar or Genasi.
yes they are. during character creation on the race page it specifically says they're shapechanger it's literally the name of the ability it describes... under racial traits..
Racial Traits: Shapechanger = 100% copy paste...
right up ther near the top..
[REDACTED]
They don't do that.
PC Changelings have all of the following racial traits. None of these traits with name X declare the Changeling to be an X, as you are claiming. If you want to instead claim that a member of a PC race is X for all X such that X is a trait on that race, you should ideally provide a rules reference for the claim. I will syntactically present the traits to match your apparent claim, that a Changeling is all of its traits.
If you want an example of a trait that does declare a Changeling to be an X for some X, the MPMM entry's trait "Creature Type" states that a Changeling is a Fey. Neither of the PC Changeling entries I listed above has a trait similarly stating that a Changeling is a Shapeshifter.
Of course, the MPMM entry is newer than this entire thread, because you dug up an ancient conversation rather than start a new one.
Jeremy Crawford has stated in sageadvice.eu/changeling-is-a-shapechanger that "In Eberron, changelings have the Shapechanger trait. That means a changeling is, indeed, a shapechanger".
Mate, we have RAI today that was not present back when this thread was actually relevant so you coming in here and telling people from 2+ years ago that they "need to start paying attention more" is very unhelpful.
Changelings have a feature called "Shapechanger" but their creature type is actually Fey (formerly Humanoid). Thanks to JC's RAI we know that, in Eberron specifically, they do count as Shapechangers due to the aforementioned feature.
go make a new character it's literally on the top of the race page.. ctrl+f this "Racial Traits: Shapechanger"
For those concerned about time it was there back when this forum was initially active(you're not the only one to point that out..). the only reason I brought it up now is because I had someone I play with ask then bring this place up as a source (this being the only one short of the character creation page.) as to why they aren't after I told them they are. y'all are way too bend out of shape for pointless reasons.. like I said it's ACTUALLY not meant in a mean spirited way(I get that text isn't a perfect medium) but when you don't know don't bother pretending you do... it only muddies the water for those who also don't know. And yes I did read the thread how else do you think I noticed that more often people were pointing out they aren't when they are.. just end the pointlessness of this added thread here.. I'm tired of seeing notifications over this.
Actually, this is why it shows as having a Shapechanger trait:
Because one of its features is called Shapechanger. But we already know that just because one of the racial features is named a certain way doesn't mean the creature's type is affected (ie. Fey Ancestry).
It was JCs RAI on Twitter from Dec 2019 that stated definitively that, in Eberron, they are Shapechangers and would be affected/unaffected by things that can/cannot affect Shapechangers.
Changeling