I'm kind of unsure on how many hands free a some one needs to cast a spell under certain conditions.
Just to be sure if a spell caster has a spell casting focus or component pouch in one of their hands they will be able to use it in places of a spells material components as long as the material components don't cost gold and are not consumed by casting the spell?
So for my examples I will be using a Sword Bard which has a shield and has a sword in their other hand which they are using as their spell casting focus.
So if they are holding both their sword and shield they can cast spells that have just verbal components or spells that have verbal and/or material components that are not consumed or cost gold correct?
But if they want to cast a spell that has somatic components or has a materiel component that their focus can't take the place of they have to free up one of their hands right?
And if they want to cast a spell that has somatic components and has material components that cost gold and/or are consumed they have to have two hands free one for the somatic components and for the material components or can they do both only one hand?
If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
Because of this you cannot cast a Somatic spell while holding a shield and sword - unless you have something that allows you to - such as the War Caster feat.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
This rule covers the material components bit. You could use your sword in one hand and cover the Somatic and Material components with the other free hand. This isn't covered by War Caster though - so if you have a spell with a gold cost - you will still need to dispose of your shield temporarily (and that costs an Action) or your sword.
The PHB states that the hand you use to hold your focus can be the same hand that you use for somatic components, so if the sword really is a spellcasting focus then the character can cast while wielding both sword and shield.
If you need a specific material component that the focus can’t replace, then you’ll have to do some juggling, yeah.
[EDIT] The basic rules linked above also state this: “A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components — or to hold a spellcasting focus — but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.“
In Xanathar's guild for the sword bard is says "If your're proficient with a simple or martial melee weapon you can use it as a spellcasting focus for your bard spells."
So as long as they have their sword on one hand they can have both somatic and material components covered as long as the material components aren't consumed or cost gold?
Materials will be covered by a spell focus Sword so long as they don't have an associated gold cost. If they do cost they will require a free hand.
Somatic spells have to have a free hand unless you have the War Caster feat (or similar ability if there is one).
Typically you'll want to drop your shield because it allows you to keep your focus but that requires an action to doff. You could drop your sword for a gold cost spell since you won't need your focus in that case. Doing that is free since you can drop your sword one turn and pick it up the next turn all for free. Dropping your sword to get the Somatic's could be problematic though since you'd be dropping your focus which you might need for the rest of the spell.
If you take the War Caster feat - the only spells you would need to juggle for are gold cost spells. If you don't then you'll need to juggle for both Somatic spells and gold cost spells - but they can share the same free hand in cases where they both come up.
Materials will be covered by a spell focus Sword so long as they don't have an associated gold cost. If they do cost they will require a free hand.
Somatic spells have to have a free hand unless you have the War Caster feat (or similar ability if there is one).
Typically you'll want to drop your shield because it allows you to keep your focus but that requires an action to doff. You could drop your sword for a gold cost spell since you won't need your focus in that case. Doing that is free since you can drop your sword one turn and pick it up the next turn all for free. Dropping your sword to get the Somatic's could be problematic though since you'd be dropping your focus which you might need for the rest of the spell.
If you take the War Caster feat - the only spells you would need to juggle for are gold cost spells. If you don't then you'll need to juggle for both Somatic spells and gold cost spells - but they can share the same free hand in cases where they both come up.
You're still misunderstanding. The material component and somatic component can be satisfied by the same hand. If you're holding a sword that is a spellcasting focus, the hand in which you're doing that is "free" for the purposes of the somatic component.
The feature of War Caster that lets you fulfill somatic components while holding a weapon or shield in one or both hands is extremely useful for Eldritch Knights, who don't get weapons as arcane foci, but it's unnecessary for a Swords bard because of how the rules regarding material and somatic components work.
Materials will be covered by a spell focus Sword so long as they don't have an associated gold cost. If they do cost they will require a free hand.
Somatic spells have to have a free hand unless you have the War Caster feat (or similar ability if there is one).
Typically you'll want to drop your shield because it allows you to keep your focus but that requires an action to doff. You could drop your sword for a gold cost spell since you won't need your focus in that case. Doing that is free since you can drop your sword one turn and pick it up the next turn all for free. Dropping your sword to get the Somatic's could be problematic though since you'd be dropping your focus which you might need for the rest of the spell.
If you take the War Caster feat - the only spells you would need to juggle for are gold cost spells. If you don't then you'll need to juggle for both Somatic spells and gold cost spells - but they can share the same free hand in cases where they both come up.
You're still misunderstanding. The material component and somatic component can be satisfied by the same hand. If you're holding a sword that is a spellcasting focus, the hand in which you're doing that is "free" for the purposes of the somatic component.
The feature of War Caster that lets you fulfill somatic components while holding a weapon or shield in one or both hands is extremely useful for Eldritch Knights, who don't get weapons as arcane foci, but it's unnecessary for a Swords bard because of how the rules regarding material and somatic components work.
Where is the rule that says a spellcasting focus can be considered a free hand for somatic components? The somatic rule says nothing of that.
Somatic (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
No mention that it can be replaced by a spellcasting focus. The bit about the spellcasting focus being able to replace a component is specifically under the Material section and refers to the material components. If that is not the case it's very misleading.
I quoted it above. It's at the bottom of the Material section: "A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."
What it's saying is that, if the sword is a spellcasting focus, the caster can hold it in the same hand they use to perform the somatic components.
I quoted it above. It's at the bottom of the Material section: "A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."
What it's saying is that, if the sword is a spellcasting focus, the caster can hold it in the same hand they use to perform the somatic components.
Except that I read it as: If you have a free hand for somatics - you can use material components in it. But if you are using a spellcasting focus then that hand isn't free and can't be used for somatics. A case of A leads to B doesn't necessarily mean B leads to A.
I mean - if I'm wrong I'm wrong - that's alright. Just means it should be written more explicitly.
That reading is entirely unsupported by the quote though. It's extremely straightforward. The hand in which you access a component pouch or hold a spellcasting focus can be the same hand that you use to perform somatic components. There's no room for misinterpretation there, so I'm not sure where you're getting your reading.
I guess I can't get over that the Somatic component explicitly requires a free hand but if you're holding a spellcasting focus it's not free by definition - especially if it's a sword. It feels very contradictory. But yes I get that I'm wrong.
So then the only juggling OP would need to do is with gold cost spells.
The text definitely belongs under both the Material header and the Somatic header. The wording makes more sense I think if you approach it from the direction of "first, my hand is free to do somatic components; second, holding an arcane focus doesn't un-free that hand," rather than "first, I'm holding a sword; second, that hand is still free to do somatic components." The PHB is not always the best-organized document (still better than Pathfinder 2e's rulebook, haha).
I guess I can't get over that the Somatic component explicitly requires a free hand but if you're holding a spellcasting focus it's not free by definition - especially if it's a sword. It feels very contradictory. But yes I get that I'm wrong.
So then the only juggling OP would need to do is with gold cost spells.
Let me see if I can help clear it up.
The somatic component requires a free hand. The material component allows you to perform the somatic component with the same hand that is holding the material or focus.
So, you can cast SM spells with a spellcasting focus and no free hand, but you can't cast S (no M) spells unless you empty a hand.
And then there is the warcaster feat which lets you make somatic components even with full hands, negating the whole confusion.
@emmote, I believe you are (mostly) right and @SagaTympana is wrong. That user is applying the Material components rules section to somatic spells incorrectly. "The hand in which you access a component pouch or hold a spellcasting focus can be the same hand that you use to perform somatic components..." for spells that contain material components (since this text is in the material components section). No such statement is made for spells that don't require material components. It would be weird that the rule for how your hands can be occupied while casting a S only spell would be buried in the text on M spells.
Edit: @SagaTympana doesn't seem to realize that the rule text describing material component spells only applies to spells with material components and has made this mistake across multiple threads.
It does seem bizarre that a spell that has both Somatic and Material components can be cast with a Sword (Spellcasting Focus) and Shield while a spell with only Somatic can't. As if the very act of having Material components somehow allows you to use Somatic where you otherwise couldn't.
If you think of a S spell as require moving your hand (specifically) and a S,M spell as requiring you to move the components (or focus) around, I think the rules as stated and the SA supporting that reading make perfect sense.
If you think of a S spell as require moving your hand (specifically) and a S,M spell as requiring you to move the components (or focus) around, I think the rules as stated and the SA supporting that reading make perfect sense.
So would that suggest that the Somatic component of S or SV spells are far more complicated and can't be performed with anything in the hand - while in SM or SMV spells the movements are less complicated? That's the only way I can rationalise it.
I'm kind of unsure on how many hands free a some one needs to cast a spell under certain conditions.
Just to be sure if a spell caster has a spell casting focus or component pouch in one of their hands they will be able to use it in places of a spells material components as long as the material components don't cost gold and are not consumed by casting the spell?
So for my examples I will be using a Sword Bard which has a shield and has a sword in their other hand which they are using as their spell casting focus.
So if they are holding both their sword and shield they can cast spells that have just verbal components or spells that have verbal and/or material components that are not consumed or cost gold correct?
But if they want to cast a spell that has somatic components or has a materiel component that their focus can't take the place of they have to free up one of their hands right?
And if they want to cast a spell that has somatic components and has material components that cost gold and/or are consumed they have to have two hands free one for the somatic components and for the material components or can they do both only one hand?
Thanks for the help.
Given the spell component rules section (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#Components) I believe you're right on all counts (except the last sentence).
Because of this you cannot cast a Somatic spell while holding a shield and sword - unless you have something that allows you to - such as the War Caster feat.
This rule covers the material components bit. You could use your sword in one hand and cover the Somatic and Material components with the other free hand. This isn't covered by War Caster though - so if you have a spell with a gold cost - you will still need to dispose of your shield temporarily (and that costs an Action) or your sword.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
The PHB states that the hand you use to hold your focus can be the same hand that you use for somatic components, so if the sword really is a spellcasting focus then the character can cast while wielding both sword and shield.
If you need a specific material component that the focus can’t replace, then you’ll have to do some juggling, yeah.
[EDIT] The basic rules linked above also state this: “A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components — or to hold a spellcasting focus — but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.“
In Xanathar's guild for the sword bard is says "If your're proficient with a simple or martial melee weapon you can use it as a spellcasting focus for your bard spells."
So as long as they have their sword on one hand they can have both somatic and material components covered as long as the material components aren't consumed or cost gold?
Materials will be covered by a spell focus Sword so long as they don't have an associated gold cost. If they do cost they will require a free hand.
Somatic spells have to have a free hand unless you have the War Caster feat (or similar ability if there is one).
Typically you'll want to drop your shield because it allows you to keep your focus but that requires an action to doff. You could drop your sword for a gold cost spell since you won't need your focus in that case. Doing that is free since you can drop your sword one turn and pick it up the next turn all for free.
Dropping your sword to get the Somatic's could be problematic though since you'd be dropping your focus which you might need for the rest of the spell.
If you take the War Caster feat - the only spells you would need to juggle for are gold cost spells. If you don't then you'll need to juggle for both Somatic spells and gold cost spells - but they can share the same free hand in cases where they both come up.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
So the using a sword as a spellcasting focus is different than using something else as a spellcasting focus?
Edit: As in that it does not let you use the hand you are holding it in to perform somatic components?
You're still misunderstanding. The material component and somatic component can be satisfied by the same hand. If you're holding a sword that is a spellcasting focus, the hand in which you're doing that is "free" for the purposes of the somatic component.
The feature of War Caster that lets you fulfill somatic components while holding a weapon or shield in one or both hands is extremely useful for Eldritch Knights, who don't get weapons as arcane foci, but it's unnecessary for a Swords bard because of how the rules regarding material and somatic components work.
Where is the rule that says a spellcasting focus can be considered a free hand for somatic components? The somatic rule says nothing of that.
No mention that it can be replaced by a spellcasting focus. The bit about the spellcasting focus being able to replace a component is specifically under the Material section and refers to the material components. If that is not the case it's very misleading.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
I quoted it above. It's at the bottom of the Material section: "A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."
What it's saying is that, if the sword is a spellcasting focus, the caster can hold it in the same hand they use to perform the somatic components.
Except that I read it as: If you have a free hand for somatics - you can use material components in it. But if you are using a spellcasting focus then that hand isn't free and can't be used for somatics.
A case of A leads to B doesn't necessarily mean B leads to A.
I mean - if I'm wrong I'm wrong - that's alright. Just means it should be written more explicitly.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
That reading is entirely unsupported by the quote though. It's extremely straightforward. The hand in which you access a component pouch or hold a spellcasting focus can be the same hand that you use to perform somatic components. There's no room for misinterpretation there, so I'm not sure where you're getting your reading.
I guess I can't get over that the Somatic component explicitly requires a free hand but if you're holding a spellcasting focus it's not free by definition - especially if it's a sword. It feels very contradictory. But yes I get that I'm wrong.
So then the only juggling OP would need to do is with gold cost spells.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Thanks for the help!
The Bard is one of my players so I wanted to make sure I understood the rules so I'm not running thing incorrectly.
The text definitely belongs under both the Material header and the Somatic header. The wording makes more sense I think if you approach it from the direction of "first, my hand is free to do somatic components; second, holding an arcane focus doesn't un-free that hand," rather than "first, I'm holding a sword; second, that hand is still free to do somatic components." The PHB is not always the best-organized document (still better than Pathfinder 2e's rulebook, haha).
Let me see if I can help clear it up.
The somatic component requires a free hand. The material component allows you to perform the somatic component with the same hand that is holding the material or focus.
So, you can cast SM spells with a spellcasting focus and no free hand, but you can't cast S (no M) spells unless you empty a hand.
And then there is the warcaster feat which lets you make somatic components even with full hands, negating the whole confusion.
@emmote, I believe you are (mostly) right and @SagaTympana is wrong. That user is applying the Material components rules section to somatic spells incorrectly. "The hand in which you access a component pouch or hold a spellcasting focus can be the same hand that you use to perform somatic components..." for spells that contain material components (since this text is in the material components section). No such statement is made for spells that don't require material components. It would be weird that the rule for how your hands can be occupied while casting a S only spell would be buried in the text on M spells.
Edit: @SagaTympana doesn't seem to realize that the rule text describing material component spells only applies to spells with material components and has made this mistake across multiple threads.
Do you need two free hands to cast burning hands?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
It does seem bizarre that a spell that has both Somatic and Material components can be cast with a Sword (Spellcasting Focus) and Shield while a spell with only Somatic can't. As if the very act of having Material components somehow allows you to use Somatic where you otherwise couldn't.
I really don't know. I don't like ambiguous.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
If you think of a S spell as require moving your hand (specifically) and a S,M spell as requiring you to move the components (or focus) around, I think the rules as stated and the SA supporting that reading make perfect sense.
So would that suggest that the Somatic component of S or SV spells are far more complicated and can't be performed with anything in the hand - while in SM or SMV spells the movements are less complicated?
That's the only way I can rationalise it.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).