I am a level four rogue ( arcane trickster ). I love the subclass but desire access to level 2/3 spells.
To accomplish this I am looking to put 3 levels into wizard, warlock, or druid. Yes I know uncanny dodge is stupid good, but I'm building my characters roleplay strengths up.
Currently as a pure Rogue ( arcane trickster ), I have 3 cantrips & 3 level-one spell slots. I'm trying to figure out which class is going to help me get my second and third level spells best.
In specific my character goal in mind is grabbing minor illusion on top of my three known cantrips, and the only level one spells I care for are feather fall & speak with animals.
The big holdup is probably my wanted level two and three spells, if I am even able to access them. I really want silence & mirror image for level two spells and i'm afraid desert circle druid is the only way I can grab silence. The reason I really want silence is to have total lockdown with my choice level 3 spell, counterspell. Tongue is also a must and if I somehow get there, major image would be amazing.
TLDR: How many spell slots does a level-four Arcane trickster get when multiclassing three levels into wizard, warlock, or druid ?
Oh hmm .. it seems the basic rules don't have Arcane Trickster, so what you'll do is divide your rogue levels by 3, rounding down, and then add that to your wizard or druid levels and consult the table in the section I linked. That's how many spell slots you have.
Warlock is a different case. You don't add warlock levels into multiclassing spell slots. You just keep your original spell slots and then have Pact Magic slots in addition.
Yes, that is what I'm having trouble understanding.
I think I've got it narrowed though. To get what I what, I need to dump 5 levels into Wizard. Then I'll have 3 level-two slots and 2 level-three slots.
Right ? Looks like they are a bit farther off than I thought. I was helping a friend make his druid and his slots and levels made me jealous haha.
I'm a bit upset because I can't figure out how to get silence & counterspell in the same package, as all my rogue's spells are non-damaging.
The Bard has Silence on its spell list, and although it doesn't naturally have Counterspell, it's Magical Secrets feature allows you to add spells from any class. All Bards get this feature at level 10, but Lore Bards get an extra one early at level 6.
Explaining why it's this way takes a bit longer. Without giving a very long explanation, look at how a level 4 full caster (such as Bard), a level 8 half caster (Paladin), and level 12 one-third caster (Arcane Trickster) all have the same spell slots per day, minus cantrips.
I thought about that path for sure, but the 5 levels up until Magical Secrets doesn't interest me and my campaign is quite slow to level.
I will be dumping points into Illusion Wizard either next level, or the one after that. Illusory Reality is ideal late-game for me, and there is homebrew in our sessions so maybe my DM will allow silence even though it is not on the Wizard spell list.
Can you write out a basic formula for me so I can understand ? I want to know how to calculate spell slots and levels for each point I put into Wizard.
From what I understand it's 1/3 of my trickster levels + my wizard levels = my slots, but then how do I determine levels for the slots ? Cantrips add together if I understand correctly.
I currently have 3 slots so wouldn't taking one point in wizard drop my slots two, making me less magically inclined for speccing into a proper mage class ? I don't understand.
At this point I'm thinking about going pure Illusion wizard, with damage coming from longbow ( I'm an aaracokra with bracers of archery )
Mainly because I'm not sure how long my DM wants to stretch the campaign for, and Illusory Wizard 14 is *drool*.
Thanks for any and all help! Wish I could format better but I'm off to work.
If your DM will allow Silence on the Wizard spell list, especially if you somehow have to research/roleplay for it, then that would be great. Rogue/Bard and Rogue/Illusionist complement each other very well and you can't go wrong with either.
Multiclass spellcasting, in terms of how many spell slots per day, averages the "power level" of each caster chart.
So now you know that as an Arcane Trickster 4/Wizard 1, your Multiclass Spellcaster Level is 2. This is separate from your individual class levels and total class levels, used ONLY to determine spell slots per day.
One of your main goals is to get Counterspell, a 3rd-level spell. Thing is, when multiclass spellcasting, just because you have 3rd level spell slots, that doesn't mean you get third level spells. You still have those slots available to upcast a 1st- or 2nd-level spell to 3rd, making it more powerful, but you can only get 3rd level spells at the same level the class would normally get them as if they had not multiclassed.
This is important because using our formula, you only need to add 4 levels of Wizard to your current build to get 3rd-level spell slots, but you still can't get Counterspell until you have 5 levels of Wizard.
AT 4/Wizard 4 = MSL
(4 * 1/3) + 4 = MSL
(skipping steps, rounding down)
1 + 4 = 5.
An Arcane Trickster 4/Wizard 4 is treated as a level 5 multiclass spellcaster for the purposes of determining spell slots per day, and therefore you now have 3rd-level spell slots. But since neither an Arcane Trickster 4 nor a Wizard 4 can cast 3rd-level spells on their own, you don't get 3rd-level spells. You only have the slots available for upcasting your 1st- and 2nd-level spells.
Furthermore, this means that (assuming your DM allows you to add Silence to the Wizard spell list) it takes one less level of Wizard to reach your most immediate goal than if you went Lore Bard, but it's still 5 levels away for you.
Thank you for the super in-depth response Korbin ! After a long day of thought I'm going for five levels of Illusionist wizard. It just fits my flavor so well, and on top of that I love the level 3-5 spell pool that I gain access to. Spellbook is amazing as well gaining 2 new spells each level. My DM is allowing us to respec our characters, so I will be rushing 5 wizard, and then regaining my rogue perks for at least 5 levels after that.
The one main mixup I'm thinking of going is Thief instead of Arcane trickster. I am keeping the flavor of the trickster, but it complicates things and the leveled slots are lacking. Thief will allow me to do the usual mid-combat swipes, alongside the cheeky healer feat for bonus action cheap heals.
My character has one damage cantrip, otherwise it's illusion, enchantments, and divination spells. I don't have any CC. Still using a longbow by bracers of archery for dps alongside sharpshooter feat taken level 4. Not sure how useful i'll be. I've got 21 hp, 16 AC with mage armor on, and a stupid good INT ( rolled 18 )
I am thinking about posting my char for opinions on its viability. I'm not against having big damage spells but I've just got so much I want to do RP wise.
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Hi there!
I am a level four rogue ( arcane trickster ). I love the subclass but desire access to level 2/3 spells.
To accomplish this I am looking to put 3 levels into wizard, warlock, or druid. Yes I know uncanny dodge is stupid good, but I'm building my characters roleplay strengths up.
Currently as a pure Rogue ( arcane trickster ), I have 3 cantrips & 3 level-one spell slots. I'm trying to figure out which class is going to help me get my second and third level spells best.
In specific my character goal in mind is grabbing minor illusion on top of my three known cantrips, and the only level one spells I care for are feather fall & speak with animals.
The big holdup is probably my wanted level two and three spells, if I am even able to access them. I really want silence & mirror image for level two spells and i'm afraid desert circle druid is the only way I can grab silence. The reason I really want silence is to have total lockdown with my choice level 3 spell, counterspell. Tongue is also a must and if I somehow get there, major image would be amazing.
TLDR: How many spell slots does a level-four Arcane trickster get when multiclassing three levels into wizard, warlock, or druid ?
You'll want to read this section of the rules: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/customization-options#Spellcasting
Oh hmm .. it seems the basic rules don't have Arcane Trickster, so what you'll do is divide your rogue levels by 3, rounding down, and then add that to your wizard or druid levels and consult the table in the section I linked. That's how many spell slots you have.
Warlock is a different case. You don't add warlock levels into multiclassing spell slots. You just keep your original spell slots and then have Pact Magic slots in addition.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Yes, that is what I'm having trouble understanding.
I think I've got it narrowed though. To get what I what, I need to dump 5 levels into Wizard. Then I'll have 3 level-two slots and 2 level-three slots.
Right ? Looks like they are a bit farther off than I thought. I was helping a friend make his druid and his slots and levels made me jealous haha.
I'm a bit upset because I can't figure out how to get silence & counterspell in the same package, as all my rogue's spells are non-damaging.
Short answer:
Arcane Trickster 4/Lore Bard 6
6 cantrips, 4 first-level slots, 3 second-level slots, 3 third-level slots, and 1 fourth-level slot.
The Bard has Silence on its spell list, and although it doesn't naturally have Counterspell, it's Magical Secrets feature allows you to add spells from any class. All Bards get this feature at level 10, but Lore Bards get an extra one early at level 6.
Explaining why it's this way takes a bit longer. Without giving a very long explanation, look at how a level 4 full caster (such as Bard), a level 8 half caster (Paladin), and level 12 one-third caster (Arcane Trickster) all have the same spell slots per day, minus cantrips.
I thought about that path for sure, but the 5 levels up until Magical Secrets doesn't interest me and my campaign is quite slow to level.
I will be dumping points into Illusion Wizard either next level, or the one after that. Illusory Reality is ideal late-game for me, and there is homebrew in our sessions so maybe my DM will allow silence even though it is not on the Wizard spell list.
Can you write out a basic formula for me so I can understand ? I want to know how to calculate spell slots and levels for each point I put into Wizard.
From what I understand it's 1/3 of my trickster levels + my wizard levels = my slots, but then how do I determine levels for the slots ? Cantrips add together if I understand correctly.
I currently have 3 slots so wouldn't taking one point in wizard drop my slots two, making me less magically inclined for speccing into a proper mage class ? I don't understand.
At this point I'm thinking about going pure Illusion wizard, with damage coming from longbow ( I'm an aaracokra with bracers of archery )
Mainly because I'm not sure how long my DM wants to stretch the campaign for, and Illusory Wizard 14 is *drool*.
Thanks for any and all help! Wish I could format better but I'm off to work.
If your DM will allow Silence on the Wizard spell list, especially if you somehow have to research/roleplay for it, then that would be great. Rogue/Bard and Rogue/Illusionist complement each other very well and you can't go wrong with either.
Multiclass spellcasting, in terms of how many spell slots per day, averages the "power level" of each caster chart.
Try this formula (always round down).
(ArcaneTricksterLevel * 1/3) + WizardLevel = MulticlassSpellcasterLevel
So you're currently a level 4 AT, next level you take Wizard.
(4 * 1/3) + 1 = MSL
(4/3) + 1 = MSL
1.33 + 1 = MSL
1 (rounded down) + 1 = 2
Then you look at the chart Ophidimancer posted for multiclass spellcasting (also note it looks the same as a full caster minus cantrips). https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/customization-options#Spellcasting
So now you know that as an Arcane Trickster 4/Wizard 1, your Multiclass Spellcaster Level is 2. This is separate from your individual class levels and total class levels, used ONLY to determine spell slots per day.
One of your main goals is to get Counterspell, a 3rd-level spell. Thing is, when multiclass spellcasting, just because you have 3rd level spell slots, that doesn't mean you get third level spells. You still have those slots available to upcast a 1st- or 2nd-level spell to 3rd, making it more powerful, but you can only get 3rd level spells at the same level the class would normally get them as if they had not multiclassed.
This is important because using our formula, you only need to add 4 levels of Wizard to your current build to get 3rd-level spell slots, but you still can't get Counterspell until you have 5 levels of Wizard.
AT 4/Wizard 4 = MSL
(4 * 1/3) + 4 = MSL
(skipping steps, rounding down)
1 + 4 = 5.
An Arcane Trickster 4/Wizard 4 is treated as a level 5 multiclass spellcaster for the purposes of determining spell slots per day, and therefore you now have 3rd-level spell slots. But since neither an Arcane Trickster 4 nor a Wizard 4 can cast 3rd-level spells on their own, you don't get 3rd-level spells. You only have the slots available for upcasting your 1st- and 2nd-level spells.
Furthermore, this means that (assuming your DM allows you to add Silence to the Wizard spell list) it takes one less level of Wizard to reach your most immediate goal than if you went Lore Bard, but it's still 5 levels away for you.
I think 6 levels lore bard is the only way yo get ALL the spells you want. As it happens, lore bard + rogue is already a master skill monkey build.
Thank you for the super in-depth response Korbin ! After a long day of thought I'm going for five levels of Illusionist wizard. It just fits my flavor so well, and on top of that I love the level 3-5 spell pool that I gain access to. Spellbook is amazing as well gaining 2 new spells each level. My DM is allowing us to respec our characters, so I will be rushing 5 wizard, and then regaining my rogue perks for at least 5 levels after that.
The one main mixup I'm thinking of going is Thief instead of Arcane trickster. I am keeping the flavor of the trickster, but it complicates things and the leveled slots are lacking. Thief will allow me to do the usual mid-combat swipes, alongside the cheeky healer feat for bonus action cheap heals.
My character has one damage cantrip, otherwise it's illusion, enchantments, and divination spells. I don't have any CC. Still using a longbow by bracers of archery for dps alongside sharpshooter feat taken level 4. Not sure how useful i'll be. I've got 21 hp, 16 AC with mage armor on, and a stupid good INT ( rolled 18 )
I am thinking about posting my char for opinions on its viability. I'm not against having big damage spells but I've just got so much I want to do RP wise.