I'm whipping up a monster with a mechanic really similar to the Fear Aura of the Pit Fiend and the Meenlock. I can't tell if that aura is having any effect on CR. It's not listed in the big ol' DMG monster traits list, but in trying to reverse-engineer the monsters, I think it might be doing something.
Meenlock
Offensive CR = 4 (7 damage per round + 20 "virtual damage" from the paralysis; +4 to hit and save DC 11)
Defensive CR = 1/2 (31 hp; 15 AC)
Pit Fiend
Offensive CR = 20 (113 DPR and +14 to hit)
Defensive CR = 18 (300 hp; 19 base AC + 2 for Magic Resistance + 2 to saving throws = 23 AC)
So, it looks like the pit fiend is missing at least a little something for defensive CR.
I think it *might* be worth an effective +1 to AC, comparing it to the troglodyte's stench (poison and fear are pretty similar mechanically: disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks, and the ability is formatted very similarly down to the effect's duration and passive activation). That would be enough to bump up the Pit Fiend's defensive CR to 19, which means a final CR there of 20, which matches. And this works for the Meenlock, too - even at a defensive CR of 1 for a 16 AC, it's final CR would still be 2.
There have been a lot of posts about CR values. The consensus seems to be: take them with a grain of salt. There are so many variables due to environment, tactics, synergy, hard counters(to certain effects), etc. You want a CR as a yardstick measuring tool, not a microscope.
I don't see what Fear Aura and AC have to do with each other. Completely unrelated. This would be a better fit for Homebrew topics.
I believe OP is referring to CR calculation, not adding AC to the monster's actual stat block.
I don't see anything wrong with considering the Fear Aura an effective +1 for CR calculation, but bear in mind that CR is a very loose guideline on what opponents a party can take. Certain resistances or immunities can make a monster much more effective against some parties than others or dismantle certain strategies of attack. A party with low Wis may be completely dismantled by a Fear Aura (same concept for every other save) and the like.
Remember that official monster use a different CR algorithm than what we are given in the DMG.
It is strange that the ability wasnt listed in the DMG, but +2 effective AC is probably acceptable. Notably, unlike the troglodyte's stench, you do not become immune to the fear aura.
I don't see anything wrong with considering the Fear Aura an effective +1 for CR calculation, but bear in mind that CR is a very loose guideline on what opponents a party can take. Certain resistances or immunities can make a monster much more effective against some parties than others or dismantle certain strategies of attack. A party with low Wis may be completely dismantled by a Fear Aura (same concept for every other save) and the like.
Remember that official monster use a different CR algorithm than what we are given in the DMG.
It is strange that the ability wasnt listed in the DMG, but +2 effective AC is probably acceptable. Notably, unlike the troglodyte's stench, you do not become immune to the fear aura.
Thanks kindly for the sanity check! I do find it wild that the meenlock's Fear Aura isn't something you become immune to, but the Pit Fiend's is. Fear is a big part of the meenlock's story in 5e, so I guess it makes sense that overcoming its fear once isn't enough.
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I'm whipping up a monster with a mechanic really similar to the Fear Aura of the Pit Fiend and the Meenlock. I can't tell if that aura is having any effect on CR. It's not listed in the big ol' DMG monster traits list, but in trying to reverse-engineer the monsters, I think it might be doing something.
Meenlock
Pit Fiend
So, it looks like the pit fiend is missing at least a little something for defensive CR.
I think it *might* be worth an effective +1 to AC, comparing it to the troglodyte's stench (poison and fear are pretty similar mechanically: disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks, and the ability is formatted very similarly down to the effect's duration and passive activation). That would be enough to bump up the Pit Fiend's defensive CR to 19, which means a final CR there of 20, which matches. And this works for the Meenlock, too - even at a defensive CR of 1 for a 16 AC, it's final CR would still be 2.
Anything I might be missing there?
There have been a lot of posts about CR values. The consensus seems to be: take them with a grain of salt. There are so many variables due to environment, tactics, synergy, hard counters(to certain effects), etc. You want a CR as a yardstick measuring tool, not a microscope.
Yeah, so...do you think "Fear Aura as +1 AC" is a good yardstick?
I don't see what Fear Aura and AC have to do with each other. Completely unrelated. This would be a better fit for Homebrew topics.
As a DM, if you want to tweak monters, you should!
I believe OP is referring to CR calculation, not adding AC to the monster's actual stat block.
I don't see anything wrong with considering the Fear Aura an effective +1 for CR calculation, but bear in mind that CR is a very loose guideline on what opponents a party can take. Certain resistances or immunities can make a monster much more effective against some parties than others or dismantle certain strategies of attack. A party with low Wis may be completely dismantled by a Fear Aura (same concept for every other save) and the like.
Remember that official monster use a different CR algorithm than what we are given in the DMG.
It is strange that the ability wasnt listed in the DMG, but +2 effective AC is probably acceptable. Notably, unlike the troglodyte's stench, you do not become immune to the fear aura.
Thanks kindly for the sanity check! I do find it wild that the meenlock's Fear Aura isn't something you become immune to, but the Pit Fiend's is. Fear is a big part of the meenlock's story in 5e, so I guess it makes sense that overcoming its fear once isn't enough.