It allows you to make an attack, the first step of which is choosing a valid target. If there is no valid target, for example, if the target allowed by Riposte is not within your reach, the attack procedure ends right there. Being granted an attack is NOT the same as being granted an attack roll.
This is absolutely correct.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I am suggesting that the language is confusing, and could be improved for further clarity. I am not sure why this is so controversial.
"If there’s ever any question whether something you’re doing counts as an Attack, the rule is simple: if you’re Making an Attack roll, you’re Making an Attack." "Being granted an attack is NOT the same as being granted an attack roll."
What you guys are dog piling saying is that -- even though the rules say you can make an attack, you cannot make an attack.
"Sure you can make an attack, but you cannot make an attack."
It's controversial because nobody else has ever been confused by this, nobody can understand why you are confused by this, and your hostility towards people who are confused by your confusion is confusing.
The language is fine. Riposte makes perfect sense, it's easy and intuitive to understand that the ability does not give you the magical superpower to double your range with melee weapons to counterattack someone with a Reach weapon. The fact that you want it to give you the magical superpower to double your range with melee weapons does not mean it does. Your question has been answered again and again and again and again and again.
I'm sorry this is a brain caltrop for you. if you cannot stand it, DDB allows you to homebrew a version of the Riposte ability, or even the entire Battlemaster subclass, which has the language you feel would be more correct. Use that, or just change it on your character sheet. Either way, you don't get to stick a dagger in someone who misses you with a halberd for free because of Riposte.
I am not suggesting that this is how the rule aught to be, I am merely suggesting how the rule is defined precisely written in it's current form. I do not appreciate you implying that I am a simple minded person who believes in magical physics and unable to digest information which has been repeatedly stated. Not sure why forum veterans (100+ posts) are so hostile and frustrated that they are lashing out at people who are simply discussing if a game they like could be improved.
How, exactly, would they go about improving it? Recall every 5e PHB ever sold, destroy them, and reissue a new printing with the word "can" in the text for Riposte replaced with the word "may" because one person on the DDB forums finds the wording of the ability annoying despite clearly understanding its intent?
This is nitpickery and semantics of the highest order, especially when, by your own admission, you are perfectly conversant with how Riposte is supposed to work. People are frustrated and hostile because you're kicking our asses over the fact that you don't like the wording of the rule and we should be helping you campaign for a global-scale bookburning to get it changed.
What do you want out of this? People have explained to you in hundreds of different ways why Riposte doesn't give you reach. Yes, okay - you can imagine somebody with a longsword executing a stop thrust in response to a dude with a spear missing his spear attack. What about someone 'Riposting' with a warhammer? Or a mace? Or a handaxe? How do they stop thrust to gain the effects of a free phantasmal Lunge maneuver with their Riposte?
Just...deal with it, man. They're not going to errata the wording on an ability that is worded just fine from the start.
Yes, okay - you can imagine somebody with a longsword executing a stop thrust in response to a dude with a spear missing his spear attack. What about someone 'Riposting' with a warhammer? Or a mace? Or a handaxe? How do they stop thrust to gain the effects of a free phantasmal Lunge maneuver with their Riposte?
You left out Dagger, Fist, and Head-butt.
However, if the OPs GM lets it happen, then it happens. I very much doubt that any GM on these forums would allow it in their game.
In most cases like this, I'd be inclined to say "specific beats general" which would allow the attack.
PHB p7: If a specific rule contradicts a general rule, the specific rule wins.
But in this case, I'm not so sure, because there's a completely different maneuver intended to grant extra reach -- the Lunge. So this is effectively giving the Battle Master character the benefit of two maneuvers at once, both Riposte and Lunge. In my opinion this is skirting the rule of one maneuver per attack, and shouldn't be permitted.
Incorrect. There is no contradiction to "beat" here. Riposte does not grant you reach. Riposte does not guarantee you an attack. Riposte does not overwrite any rules on making an attack.
Do you always dump on people who agree with you like this?
I am not suggesting that this is how the rule aught to be, I am merely suggesting how the rule is defined precisely written in it's current form. I do not appreciate you implying that I am a simple minded person who believes in magical physics and unable to digest information which has been repeatedly stated. Not sure why forum veterans (100+ posts) are so hostile and frustrated that they are lashing out at people who are simply discussing if a game they like could be improved.
Hey there. I am not a "forum veteran" by your standards (this will be my 83rd post) nor by the notion of having posted for a long time. My very first post was March 21st of this year, my second post was July 23rd (4 months of inactivity) and have been posting fairly consistently ever since (54 days). Maybe my DnDBeyond account being a little over a month older than yours makes me a veteran in your eyes, but I would likewise disagree with that notion.
I agree that the wording is fine and that the confusion is solely your own. You are almost attempting to counter a fallacious argument from authority, except no one is targeting you because you have fewer posts, but entirely because you are wrong. Even if this was my very first post, I would hold the same judgment of this ruling.
As you have stated, your argument isn't that Riposte "should" allow a Battle Master to extend their reach on the attack, but that the wording is confusing and that it "does" allow one to extend their reach with a melee weapon attack. Let's take a look at the Ready action:
Sometimes you want to get the jump on a foe or wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you can take the Ready action on your turn, which lets you act using your reaction before the start of your next turn.
First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it. Examples include "If the cultist steps on the trapdoor, I'll pull the lever that opens it," and "If the goblin steps next to me, I move away."
When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger. Remember that you can take only one reaction per round.
When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration. If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.
In a mechanical sense, the Riposte Maneuver functions very similarly to the Ready action if you declare the following:
"I am going to Ready my attack action to trigger if the enemy hits me with a melee attack." I am holding a longsword.
Then let's put ourselves in the situation where we are attacked with a reach weapon. The same thing occurs as with Riposte. My attack cannot be performed because all of the conditions that allow me to make an attack are still not met, even though the wording of the Ready action says I can make an attack under these conditions.
First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger...
Neither the Ready action nor the Riposte maneuver specifies "unless they are out of the range of your attack" because a melee attack implies it must be within your range. A "specific beats general" ruling would only occur if it said you could make the attack even if the target is outside of your range.
In both cases, the trigger is a melee attack against you and the response is our own melee attack. The big problem in your confusion is that you assume the wording allows you to ignore the conditions of making a melee attack, as Sigred keeps pointing out you go from A to D. The wording specifies melee attack, but the conditions of making a melee attack must likewise be met.
If we follow your interpretation of the wording to its logical conclusion, then we must likewise follow all similar wordings to ignore any or all of the implied conditions of such triggering mechanisms. In this way, we could take the Ready action to attack, hold a melee weapon, and attack a target outside of our reach, regardless of the trigger.
In most cases like this, I'd be inclined to say "specific beats general" which would allow the attack.
PHB p7: If a specific rule contradicts a general rule, the specific rule wins.
But in this case, I'm not so sure, because there's a completely different maneuver intended to grant extra reach -- the Lunge. So this is effectively giving the Battle Master character the benefit of two maneuvers at once, both Riposte and Lunge. In my opinion this is skirting the rule of one maneuver per attack, and shouldn't be permitted.
Incorrect. There is no contradiction to "beat" here. Riposte does not grant you reach. Riposte does not guarantee you an attack. Riposte does not overwrite any rules on making an attack.
Do you always dump on people who agree with you like this?
You know what, never mind. We're done.
Wasn't trying to dump on you. My apologies.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
"When a creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction and expend one superiority die to make a melee weapon attack against the creature. If you hit, you add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll."
The "if you hit" part suggests that you're making a whole attack roll and etc for this ability. Normal rules for making an attack, I'd think.
No, it does not. You are jumping from A to D. This has been exhaustively explained.
This is absolutely correct.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I am suggesting that the language is confusing, and could be improved for further clarity. I am not sure why this is so controversial.
"If there’s ever any question whether something you’re doing counts as an Attack, the rule is simple: if you’re Making an Attack roll, you’re Making an Attack."
"Being granted an attack is NOT the same as being granted an attack roll."
What you guys are dog piling saying is that -- even though the rules say you can make an attack, you cannot make an attack.
"Sure you can make an attack, but you cannot make an attack."
The simple answer is no. The attacker is out of reach of your weapon.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
It's controversial because nobody else has ever been confused by this, nobody can understand why you are confused by this, and your hostility towards people who are confused by your confusion is confusing.
The language is fine. Riposte makes perfect sense, it's easy and intuitive to understand that the ability does not give you the magical superpower to double your range with melee weapons to counterattack someone with a Reach weapon. The fact that you want it to give you the magical superpower to double your range with melee weapons does not mean it does. Your question has been answered again and again and again and again and again.
I'm sorry this is a brain caltrop for you. if you cannot stand it, DDB allows you to homebrew a version of the Riposte ability, or even the entire Battlemaster subclass, which has the language you feel would be more correct. Use that, or just change it on your character sheet. Either way, you don't get to stick a dagger in someone who misses you with a halberd for free because of Riposte.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
I am not suggesting that this is how the rule aught to be, I am merely suggesting how the rule is defined precisely written in it's current form. I do not appreciate you implying that I am a simple minded person who believes in magical physics and unable to digest information which has been repeatedly stated. Not sure why forum veterans (100+ posts) are so hostile and frustrated that they are lashing out at people who are simply discussing if a game they like could be improved.
How, exactly, would they go about improving it? Recall every 5e PHB ever sold, destroy them, and reissue a new printing with the word "can" in the text for Riposte replaced with the word "may" because one person on the DDB forums finds the wording of the ability annoying despite clearly understanding its intent?
This is nitpickery and semantics of the highest order, especially when, by your own admission, you are perfectly conversant with how Riposte is supposed to work. People are frustrated and hostile because you're kicking our asses over the fact that you don't like the wording of the rule and we should be helping you campaign for a global-scale bookburning to get it changed.
What do you want out of this? People have explained to you in hundreds of different ways why Riposte doesn't give you reach. Yes, okay - you can imagine somebody with a longsword executing a stop thrust in response to a dude with a spear missing his spear attack. What about someone 'Riposting' with a warhammer? Or a mace? Or a handaxe? How do they stop thrust to gain the effects of a free phantasmal Lunge maneuver with their Riposte?
Just...deal with it, man. They're not going to errata the wording on an ability that is worded just fine from the start.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
I mean, the ability is pretty straightforward. As far as I can tell there's nothing to be improved.
Sorry you feel different, I guess. :/
You left out Dagger, Fist, and Head-butt.
However, if the OPs GM lets it happen, then it happens. I very much doubt that any GM on these forums would allow it in their game.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Do you always dump on people who agree with you like this?
You know what, never mind. We're done.
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
Hey there. I am not a "forum veteran" by your standards (this will be my 83rd post) nor by the notion of having posted for a long time. My very first post was March 21st of this year, my second post was July 23rd (4 months of inactivity) and have been posting fairly consistently ever since (54 days). Maybe my DnDBeyond account being a little over a month older than yours makes me a veteran in your eyes, but I would likewise disagree with that notion.
I agree that the wording is fine and that the confusion is solely your own. You are almost attempting to counter a fallacious argument from authority, except no one is targeting you because you have fewer posts, but entirely because you are wrong. Even if this was my very first post, I would hold the same judgment of this ruling.
As you have stated, your argument isn't that Riposte "should" allow a Battle Master to extend their reach on the attack, but that the wording is confusing and that it "does" allow one to extend their reach with a melee weapon attack. Let's take a look at the Ready action:
Sometimes you want to get the jump on a foe or wait for a particular circumstance before you act. To do so, you can take the Ready action on your turn, which lets you act using your reaction before the start of your next turn.
First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it. Examples include "If the cultist steps on the trapdoor, I'll pull the lever that opens it," and "If the goblin steps next to me, I move away."
When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger. Remember that you can take only one reaction per round.
When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration. If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.
In a mechanical sense, the Riposte Maneuver functions very similarly to the Ready action if you declare the following:
"I am going to Ready my attack action to trigger if the enemy hits me with a melee attack." I am holding a longsword.
Then let's put ourselves in the situation where we are attacked with a reach weapon. The same thing occurs as with Riposte. My attack cannot be performed because all of the conditions that allow me to make an attack are still not met, even though the wording of the Ready action says I can make an attack under these conditions.
Neither the Ready action nor the Riposte maneuver specifies "unless they are out of the range of your attack" because a melee attack implies it must be within your range. A "specific beats general" ruling would only occur if it said you could make the attack even if the target is outside of your range.
In both cases, the trigger is a melee attack against you and the response is our own melee attack. The big problem in your confusion is that you assume the wording allows you to ignore the conditions of making a melee attack, as Sigred keeps pointing out you go from A to D. The wording specifies melee attack, but the conditions of making a melee attack must likewise be met.
If we follow your interpretation of the wording to its logical conclusion, then we must likewise follow all similar wordings to ignore any or all of the implied conditions of such triggering mechanisms. In this way, we could take the Ready action to attack, hold a melee weapon, and attack a target outside of our reach, regardless of the trigger.
So how far would DanClu's Battlemaster be able to riposte? 10 feet? 15 feet? 30 feet? At what point does it become just silly?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Wasn't trying to dump on you. My apologies.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I'm surprised this is still being discussed. The question was completely and thoroughly answered in less than 10 comments.
sorry if stupid question but does it automatically hit or do you have to make an attack role for this reaction
"When a creature misses you with a melee attack, you can use your reaction and expend one superiority die to make a melee weapon attack against the creature. If you hit, you add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll."
The "if you hit" part suggests that you're making a whole attack roll and etc for this ability. Normal rules for making an attack, I'd think.
I got quotes!
Making a melee weapon attack means rolling to hit, so nope, you don't automatically hit
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