I'm a new DM running a dungeon crawl and trying to understand some surprise situations. According to the PHB, "Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter".
A PC is scouting ahead and detects a hidden hostile creature with their passive perception. The creature sees them also and immediately attacks, beginning the combat encounter (the scout PC is not surprised). Any other PC that has line of sight on the threat and has not detected it (passive perception too low), and any PC that is out of line of sight of the threat (maybe they are around a corner or in a separate room, assuming they don't hear anything), are surprised at the start of combat (i.e. in both of these cases the threat was not noticed at the start of the encounter). Is this a reasonable interpretation?
Further to this, if a single PC is scouting ahead (unstealthed) and runs into a creature that is also not hiding and immediately attacks, would it be appropriate to have PCs who are lagging behind and out of line of sight of the threat at the start of combat be surprised?
In the first case it seems odd to me that PCs lagging behind (out of line of sight) would not be surprised if there was also a PC with line of sight on the thread (but with passive perception too low to detect it at the start of combat) who was surprised. But in the second case, it maybe seems a bit unfair that the whole party but the scout would be surprised, given that there was no hiding/stealth involved on either side.
I wouldn't say the rest of the group is "surprised" in either case, at least not in a way that would apply the surprise conditions. If the combat up ahead triggers an ambush on the rest of the party, then sure, surprise would be a factor. Otherwise, they would likely see/hear the combat as they approach it. IMO, being unaware is not the same as being surprised, unless the threat is specifically directed at them. If the PCs are out of line of sight or in another room than the creature/threat, I wouldn't count them as part of that combat encounter until they take actions to join it.
The surpriser basically gets 1 free round where the surprise-ee can't move or use actions/bonus actions. If the surpriser wins initiatives, that's 2 back to back attacks and the surprise-ee can't use reactions on the first.
If the surpriser also has abilities that depend on the surprised condition, then even better.
The surpriser basically gets 1 free round where the surprise-ee can't move or use actions/bonus actions. If the surpriser wins initiatives, that's 2 back to back attacks and the surprise-ee can't use reactions on the first.
If the surpriser also has abilities that depend on the surprised condition, then even better.
Sorry, let me clarify. Surprise is a very powerful mechanic and absolutely not useless. The problem is the odds are very stacked against getting surprise.
If there is a party of 4 and 1 of them is in heavy or medium armor that gives disadvantage on stealth, then that is 5d20s that ALL need to roll above certain numbers in order to surprise an enemy.
And they only even get this chance if they spot the enemy first or were traveling at half pace.
With you 100%. As a DM I will warn any player away from the Assassin subclass because of the improbability of their signature ability being used more than once per campaign.
Hi all,
I'm a new DM running a dungeon crawl and trying to understand some surprise situations. According to the PHB, "Any character or monster that doesn’t notice a threat is surprised at the start of the encounter".
A PC is scouting ahead and detects a hidden hostile creature with their passive perception. The creature sees them also and immediately attacks, beginning the combat encounter (the scout PC is not surprised). Any other PC that has line of sight on the threat and has not detected it (passive perception too low), and any PC that is out of line of sight of the threat (maybe they are around a corner or in a separate room, assuming they don't hear anything), are surprised at the start of combat (i.e. in both of these cases the threat was not noticed at the start of the encounter). Is this a reasonable interpretation?
Further to this, if a single PC is scouting ahead (unstealthed) and runs into a creature that is also not hiding and immediately attacks, would it be appropriate to have PCs who are lagging behind and out of line of sight of the threat at the start of combat be surprised?
In the first case it seems odd to me that PCs lagging behind (out of line of sight) would not be surprised if there was also a PC with line of sight on the thread (but with passive perception too low to detect it at the start of combat) who was surprised. But in the second case, it maybe seems a bit unfair that the whole party but the scout would be surprised, given that there was no hiding/stealth involved on either side.
Thanks for any advice!
I wouldn't say the rest of the group is "surprised" in either case, at least not in a way that would apply the surprise conditions. If the combat up ahead triggers an ambush on the rest of the party, then sure, surprise would be a factor. Otherwise, they would likely see/hear the combat as they approach it. IMO, being unaware is not the same as being surprised, unless the threat is specifically directed at them. If the PCs are out of line of sight or in another room than the creature/threat, I wouldn't count them as part of that combat encounter until they take actions to join it.
The surprise rules are pretty basic.
First off, if your are not trying to surprise something, it will never be surprised. Then:
That is it. Simple, and pretty much useless.
Well, not completely useless.
The surpriser basically gets 1 free round where the surprise-ee can't move or use actions/bonus actions. If the surpriser wins initiatives, that's 2 back to back attacks and the surprise-ee can't use reactions on the first.
If the surpriser also has abilities that depend on the surprised condition, then even better.
Sorry, let me clarify. Surprise is a very powerful mechanic and absolutely not useless. The problem is the odds are very stacked against getting surprise.
If there is a party of 4 and 1 of them is in heavy or medium armor that gives disadvantage on stealth, then that is 5d20s that ALL need to roll above certain numbers in order to surprise an enemy.
And they only even get this chance if they spot the enemy first or were traveling at half pace.
With you 100%. As a DM I will warn any player away from the Assassin subclass because of the improbability of their signature ability being used more than once per campaign.