What would be the effect on the concentration of a character when the character is polymorphed by another character (according to RAW)
Character 1 casts Spirit Guardians. Character 2 casts Polymorph on Character 1.
Would Spirit Guardians still be up? Logically, I could see this either way, but I do not see any rules adjudicating this offhand.
Logic 1: Polymorph changes everything about the character, including the mental stats. Your intelligence goes down to an animal's, so you do not have the wherewithal to even think of concentrating. Also, your body just went through a traumatic change, necessitating at least a concentration check.
Logic 2: There is nothing that I see in the rules that limit concentration abilities to those with intelligence (any intelligence). Also, if you change to a Giant Ape, you would have an Int of 7, almost the minimum intelligence of a character. I could see clerics casting spells with an Int of 8. While the cleric would obviously not be able to cast spells, he should be able to maintain concentration, according to RAW(?).
I believe the simplest answer is that Polymorph does not interrupt concentration. The main reason is - because the spell itself is concentration and you can polymorph yourself. If Polymorph broke concentration - you would cast it on yourself and it would immediately break. Making the spell useless when casting on yourself.
Also - typically in 5e a rule has to say it does something for it to do that thing. So since it doesn't say it interrupts concentration - it doesn't.
Emmber is correct. An additional note: the only way that spells "interrupt" concentration is to force a constitution saving throw by damage or specifically mentioning it (such as sleet storm). Since polymorph doesn't mention it and doesn't cause damage, then no.
Though you need to remember that the mental stats do change as listed above. That means concentration checks will be made with the new stats which are more than likely much lower.
Having read the polymorph spell and seeing "the creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
Since it is not in the nature of a giant ape to cast or concentrate on spells, the spell should end when the caster changes form.
Having read the polymorph spell and seeing "the creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
Since it is not in the nature of a giant ape to cast or concentrate on spells, the spell should end when the caster changes form.
It doesn't take an action to concentrate, so while you can't cast spells as a beast, you can definitely concentrate on one.
Having read the polymorph spell and seeing "the creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
Since it is not in the nature of a giant ape to cast or concentrate on spells, the spell should end when the caster changes form.
It doesn't take an action to concentrate, so while you can't cast spells as a beast, you can definitely concentrate on one.
Agreed, a good compliment thought is you wouldn't say the Giant Ape couldn't ready an action - something that requires concentration.
Having read the polymorph spell and seeing "the creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
Since it is not in the nature of a giant ape to cast or concentrate on spells, the spell should end when the caster changes form.
It doesn't take an action to concentrate, so while you can't cast spells as a beast, you can definitely concentrate on one.
Agreed, a good compliment thought is you wouldn't say the Giant Ape couldn't ready an action - something that requires concentration.
Not quite. You only need Concentration to Readyspells.
On the other hand, Concentrating on a spell is not the same as casting it. For example, Barbarians can Concentrate on spells while they're Raging, even though they can't cast spells in that state. In short, nothing in the rules say that a Giant Ape is unable to Concentrate on spells, so Polymorphing a caster into one doesn't mean their Concentration is broken. A mean DM can always rule that the Giant Ape is not smart enough to know it should Concentrate on the spell (although at Intelligence 7, that's a bit of a stretch, to claim that), and would therefore drop Concentration. A less mean, but still too mean for my taste, DM might require an Intelligence saving throw (or maybe Arcana check?), using the Giant Ape's stats, of course, to see whether it realizes it should keep Concentrating. That would be a house ruling, though, not something specified, nor even hinted at, in the rulebooks.
DM can always rule that the Giant Ape is not smart enough to know it should Concentrate on the spell {snip} at Intelligence 7
Since the rules states [the polymorphed] "retains its alignment and personality ", I would think that if the ruling is that the Ape has the ability to concentrate on a spell, the polymorphed has the personality to, if the intelligence is deemed high enough to understand to.
DM can always rule that the Giant Ape is not smart enough to know it should Concentrate on the spell {snip} at Intelligence 7
Since the rules states [the polymorphed] "retains its alignment and personality ", I would think that if the ruling is that the Ape has the ability to concentrate on a spell, the polymorphed has the personality to, if the intelligence is deemed high enough to understand to.
And I would rule that way, too. But it's conceivable a DM might consider being turned into a, say, Crab might mean you don't understand you had just cast a spell and should Concentrate on it, even if you're able to. The DM might also decide to give the player a chance to, and use some sort of roll.
I'm amazed nobody has mentioned about people turned into objects by True Polymorph. How do you concentrate when you technically no longer have a brain? And yet, concentration is not broken by the spell.
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I'm also surprised that no one has talked about the fact that you can polymorph yourself, but if you couldn't concentrate while polymorphed then that wouldn't work (and would have to be indicated somehow in the spell).
I'm also surprised that no one has talked about the fact that you can polymorph yourself, but if you couldn't concentrate while polymorphed then that wouldn't work (and would have to be indicated somehow in the spell).
I'm also surprised that no one has talked about the fact that you can polymorph yourself, but if you couldn't concentrate while polymorphed then that wouldn't work (and would have to be indicated somehow in the spell).
It was the first thing I pointed out. : (
Oh, well obviously I had forgotten. But all this discussion about what can concentrate doesn’t seem appropriate. Nothing in the rules for concentration or for the beasts in question say anything that should interfere.
I'm amazed nobody has mentioned about people turned into objects by True Polymorph. How do you concentrate when you technically no longer have a brain? And yet, concentration is not broken by the spell.
I haven't checked (and, sadly, can't, at the moment), but it's very probable that Concentration is a feature of "creatures", and not "objects", so if you're turned into a chair by True Polymorph, you can't maintain Concentration on a spell. (By the way, having a "brain" is not, and should not be, a requirement... a "mind", maybe, but there are tons of creatures with no actual "brain" who can, and should certainly be able to, concentrate on spells. But I know what you meant. :D)
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What would be the effect on the concentration of a character when the character is polymorphed by another character (according to RAW)
Character 1 casts Spirit Guardians.
Character 2 casts Polymorph on Character 1.
Would Spirit Guardians still be up? Logically, I could see this either way, but I do not see any rules adjudicating this offhand.
Logic 1: Polymorph changes everything about the character, including the mental stats. Your intelligence goes down to an animal's, so you do not have the wherewithal to even think of concentrating. Also, your body just went through a traumatic change, necessitating at least a concentration check.
Logic 2: There is nothing that I see in the rules that limit concentration abilities to those with intelligence (any intelligence). Also, if you change to a Giant Ape, you would have an Int of 7, almost the minimum intelligence of a character. I could see clerics casting spells with an Int of 8. While the cleric would obviously not be able to cast spells, he should be able to maintain concentration, according to RAW(?).
I believe the simplest answer is that Polymorph does not interrupt concentration. The main reason is - because the spell itself is concentration and you can polymorph yourself. If Polymorph broke concentration - you would cast it on yourself and it would immediately break. Making the spell useless when casting on yourself.
Also - typically in 5e a rule has to say it does something for it to do that thing. So since it doesn't say it interrupts concentration - it doesn't.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Emmber is correct. An additional note: the only way that spells "interrupt" concentration is to force a constitution saving throw by damage or specifically mentioning it (such as sleet storm). Since polymorph doesn't mention it and doesn't cause damage, then no.
Thank you.
Though you need to remember that the mental stats do change as listed above. That means concentration checks will be made with the new stats which are more than likely much lower.
Having read the polymorph spell and seeing "the creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it can’t speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech."
Since it is not in the nature of a giant ape to cast or concentrate on spells, the spell should end when the caster changes form.
The spell doesn't say it breaks concentration, so it doesn't.
Furthermore, future concentration checks are made using the beast's stats.
It doesn't take an action to concentrate, so while you can't cast spells as a beast, you can definitely concentrate on one.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Agreed, a good compliment thought is you wouldn't say the Giant Ape couldn't ready an action - something that requires concentration.
Not quite. You only need Concentration to Ready spells.
On the other hand, Concentrating on a spell is not the same as casting it. For example, Barbarians can Concentrate on spells while they're Raging, even though they can't cast spells in that state. In short, nothing in the rules say that a Giant Ape is unable to Concentrate on spells, so Polymorphing a caster into one doesn't mean their Concentration is broken. A mean DM can always rule that the Giant Ape is not smart enough to know it should Concentrate on the spell (although at Intelligence 7, that's a bit of a stretch, to claim that), and would therefore drop Concentration. A less mean, but still too mean for my taste, DM might require an Intelligence saving throw (or maybe Arcana check?), using the Giant Ape's stats, of course, to see whether it realizes it should keep Concentrating. That would be a house ruling, though, not something specified, nor even hinted at, in the rulebooks.
Sorry to be a pedant but that's not true. Rage specifically states:
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Disagree or not, but subjective attacks on another's style in an otherwise pleasant discussion of rules we can do without.
Since the rules states [the polymorphed] "retains its alignment and personality ", I would think that if the ruling is that the Ape has the ability to concentrate on a spell, the polymorphed has the personality to, if the intelligence is deemed high enough to understand to.
How about antagonistic then? Since they are creating rules to hinder the players.
Whoops! My bad, yes. Got confused with Druids being able to maintain concentration while Wild Shaped. Thanks for catching that. =)
I'm not attacking anybody's style, or rather not anybody who has chimed in, but rather commenting on my feelings towards an option I'm presenting.
And I would rule that way, too. But it's conceivable a DM might consider being turned into a, say, Crab might mean you don't understand you had just cast a spell and should Concentrate on it, even if you're able to. The DM might also decide to give the player a chance to, and use some sort of roll.
I'm amazed nobody has mentioned about people turned into objects by True Polymorph. How do you concentrate when you technically no longer have a brain? And yet, concentration is not broken by the spell.
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Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I'm also surprised that no one has talked about the fact that you can polymorph yourself, but if you couldn't concentrate while polymorphed then that wouldn't work (and would have to be indicated somehow in the spell).
It was the first thing I pointed out. : (
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Oh, well obviously I had forgotten. But all this discussion about what can concentrate doesn’t seem appropriate. Nothing in the rules for concentration or for the beasts in question say anything that should interfere.
I haven't checked (and, sadly, can't, at the moment), but it's very probable that Concentration is a feature of "creatures", and not "objects", so if you're turned into a chair by True Polymorph, you can't maintain Concentration on a spell. (By the way, having a "brain" is not, and should not be, a requirement... a "mind", maybe, but there are tons of creatures with no actual "brain" who can, and should certainly be able to, concentrate on spells. But I know what you meant. :D)