The spell Magic Stone is a bonus action. The spell magic stone conjures 3 pebbles that do 1d6 damage. The inflicting of the damage is not a part of the spell. Therefor, throwing the stones as a ranged spell attack is not a bonus action, but a normal attack action.
If the stones could be thrown as a bonus action, the spell has merit. It still tapers off at higher levels but at least we know its purpose.
If the stones could all be thrown at once, we'd know that its a front-loaded spell with a micro intensive reload function. A bit strong, but at this point, only on par with Eldritch Blast.
If the stones can be used as ammunition to make a ranged spell attack, then in theory, you should be doing 1d4+1d6+Ability Modifier, which is as an alternative to other attack cantrips right up to level 10.
I tend to favor rules as written, and it bothers me that this spell is so unclear without the spell description encouraging creative usage. Why can't a handful of pebbles be tossed? Can they be dropped from a pouch by a flying familiar for 3d6+Score? Can they be fired from a blunderbuss? If the spell is the actual enchanting of the stones, why does it matter how they're delivered?
Don't forget the benefits of slings with magic stone is if you have a magical sling (+1 for example) you get to add that to the attack roll and damage.
I do wonder though, what happens if you use a sling loaded with a magic stone as an improvised weapon, say caused by an attack of opportunity.
I do believe that if the spell doesn't do what you would like, you can homebrew additional features for the spell as you level. No is saying you can't do that. I mean at lvl 5 you could make it so you can enchant up to 5 stones now, or make those 1-3 stones deal an extra die of damage, but ask your DM first. If your DM is okay with a little homebrew features added to spells that don't feel like you are restricted by its description.
But there are some spells that were never meant to scale and you should drop as soon as you lvl.
The usefulness of Magic Stone lies entirely in the fact that you can give your modifier to anyone else, which for all practical purposes means 0-level NPCs, even really weak ones like children, and possibly catch an enemy by surprise / gain extra chances to break enemy casters' concentration.
Here's my question in regard to Magic Stone is this... If I cast and use Primal Savagery as my ACTION, can I then cast and throw a stone using Magic Stone as my BONUS ACTION or is just casting it my bonus action?
Here's my question in regard to Magic Stone is this... If I cast and use Primal Savagery as my ACTION, can I then cast and throw a stone using Magic Stone as my BONUS ACTION or is just casting it my bonus action?
Only the casting of Magic Stone requires the bonus action. Attacking with the pebble(s) produced by the spell requires the Attack action.
I think it should add 1d6 at levels 5 11 and 17 and not work for multi-attack to be honest, because multi-attack requires you to be at least 5 levels in a martial class, whereas most cantrips scale with character level not class level, (I think, since I have a level 4 druid level 1 sorcerer multiclasser and her cantrips have improved) which makes it much harder to use for druid, the only class that actually gets the f%cking thing in its spell list, it seems to be a spell which only exists to be taken with magic initiate or multiclassing which just sounds pointless and annoying. I am going to try to argue with my Dm that since I can't make extra attacks it should scale but only for me and not for anyone else.
So you're revived a thread where the last post was from 2019 just to argue for a rules exception only for yourself. Hmmmmm. Please don't be that person. Or start a new thread, at least.
I mean that since I can't multiattack it should only gain that damage when I cast it and use it to attack, not if I cast it and give them to someone else because then it would be brokenly good, giving a fighter or barbarian 4d6+8 damage for free, which is the same as a greatsword anyway actually, so not that overpowered really, but anyway, I think that rule should be for anyone who can cast it but not multiattack so that it remains useful at higher levels, I find it annoying that the only way to use it effectively at higher levels depends solely on having someone in the group who can multiattack, it is an enraging limitation that to me makes no sense. I would much rather it work more like green flame blade, that way it would actually be useful for a spellcaster.
Unlike Shillelagh which is only usable for the caster, Magic Stone seems like it is a spell better used to give out to someone else.
And I think it would be too confusing to make it where if you don’t have Extra Attack it scales but if you do have Extra Attack it does not. If it were to scale like other cantrips then it might need reworked so that it says “once per turn” you can throw a stone or use as with a sling. That could get around the EA issue.
We will see what they do with it in 2024. Shillelagh got a little scaling going from d8, to d10 at 5th level, to d12 at 11th level, and for some reason 2d6 at 17th level. So there’s hope Magic Stone will get some kind of boost.
I mean that since I can't multiattack it should only gain that damage when I cast it and use it to attack, not if I cast it and give them to someone else because then it would be brokenly good, giving a fighter or barbarian 4d6+8 damage for free, which is the same as a greatsword anyway actually, so not that overpowered really, but anyway, I think that rule should be for anyone who can cast it but not multiattack so that it remains useful at higher levels, I find it annoying that the only way to use it effectively at higher levels depends solely on having someone in the group who can multiattack, it is an enraging limitation that to me makes no sense. I would much rather it work more like green flame blade, that way it would actually be useful for a spellcaster.
Game rules only mean something if they work consistently for everyone (except maybe sometimes the DM). If you are going have a Magic Stone-ed stone do different damage for Druid's range attack but different for everyone who is not that particular Druid, then it should be a separate spell with a different name.
but it takes 5 levels of multiclassing into fighter to get that, every other cantrip scales with character level, magic stone only scales with class levels in specific classes, none of which actually get it without feats, it makes a spell that could be really versatile way harder to use than I think it should be.
yeah but it kinda makes sense, the stone is a magic ammo, as the one who enchanted it I am essentially attuned to it in a way that other people aren't, at least that is how I would homebrew it if I were dm to justify the balance change, after all artificer is automatically attuned to magic items they create.
I have an alternative idea, what if you get a total amount of d6's that can be added to stones and this increases at higher levels? for example: at level 1-4 it is 1 stone with 1d6, at level 5-11 it is 1 with 2d6 or 2 with 1d6, throwing 2 gives more damage since you add the damage modifier twice and you get 2 chances to hit, so it is still better when used by fighter but isn't rendered totally useless for druid, at level 11-16 you have 3d6 available and can divide it how you wish, and then at level 17 it is 4d6, you could make 2 2d6 stones but by this level that is frankly worse for any martial class than just using their own weapons at this point due to their various buffs and abilities.
TLDR: what if you have a total number of d6's available to add and this increases at higher levels from 1 at level 1 to 4 at level 17 and you can divide them how you wish between stones?
Since you seem to be answering your own question...
If somebody has proficiency in slings then they would get a bonus rather than no bonus if they just threw it.
You do NOT gain extra attacks with the spell. It just allows you to create the stones and attack with them in the same round.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
The spell Magic Stone is a bonus action. The spell magic stone conjures 3 pebbles that do 1d6 damage. The inflicting of the damage is not a part of the spell. Therefor, throwing the stones as a ranged spell attack is not a bonus action, but a normal attack action.
If the stones could be thrown as a bonus action, the spell has merit. It still tapers off at higher levels but at least we know its purpose.
If the stones could all be thrown at once, we'd know that its a front-loaded spell with a micro intensive reload function. A bit strong, but at this point, only on par with Eldritch Blast.
If the stones can be used as ammunition to make a ranged spell attack, then in theory, you should be doing 1d4+1d6+Ability Modifier, which is as an alternative to other attack cantrips right up to level 10.
I tend to favor rules as written, and it bothers me that this spell is so unclear without the spell description encouraging creative usage. Why can't a handful of pebbles be tossed? Can they be dropped from a pouch by a flying familiar for 3d6+Score? Can they be fired from a blunderbuss? If the spell is the actual enchanting of the stones, why does it matter how they're delivered?
Don't forget the benefits of slings with magic stone is if you have a magical sling (+1 for example) you get to add that to the attack roll and damage.
I do wonder though, what happens if you use a sling loaded with a magic stone as an improvised weapon, say caused by an attack of opportunity.
I do believe that if the spell doesn't do what you would like, you can homebrew additional features for the spell as you level. No is saying you can't do that. I mean at lvl 5 you could make it so you can enchant up to 5 stones now, or make those 1-3 stones deal an extra die of damage, but ask your DM first. If your DM is okay with a little homebrew features added to spells that don't feel like you are restricted by its description.
But there are some spells that were never meant to scale and you should drop as soon as you lvl.
<(*_*)> Giffard
The usefulness of Magic Stone lies entirely in the fact that you can give your modifier to anyone else, which for all practical purposes means 0-level NPCs, even really weak ones like children, and possibly catch an enemy by surprise / gain extra chances to break enemy casters' concentration.
Here's my question in regard to Magic Stone is this... If I cast and use Primal Savagery as my ACTION, can I then cast and throw a stone using Magic Stone as my BONUS ACTION or is just casting it my bonus action?
Only the casting of Magic Stone requires the bonus action. Attacking with the pebble(s) produced by the spell requires the Attack action.
I think it should add 1d6 at levels 5 11 and 17 and not work for multi-attack to be honest, because multi-attack requires you to be at least 5 levels in a martial class, whereas most cantrips scale with character level not class level, (I think, since I have a level 4 druid level 1 sorcerer multiclasser and her cantrips have improved) which makes it much harder to use for druid, the only class that actually gets the f%cking thing in its spell list, it seems to be a spell which only exists to be taken with magic initiate or multiclassing which just sounds pointless and annoying. I am going to try to argue with my Dm that since I can't make extra attacks it should scale but only for me and not for anyone else.
Mitth'raw'nuruodo
So you're revived a thread where the last post was from 2019 just to argue for a rules exception only for yourself. Hmmmmm. Please don't be that person. Or start a new thread, at least.
I mean that since I can't multiattack it should only gain that damage when I cast it and use it to attack, not if I cast it and give them to someone else because then it would be brokenly good, giving a fighter or barbarian 4d6+8 damage for free, which is the same as a greatsword anyway actually, so not that overpowered really, but anyway, I think that rule should be for anyone who can cast it but not multiattack so that it remains useful at higher levels, I find it annoying that the only way to use it effectively at higher levels depends solely on having someone in the group who can multiattack, it is an enraging limitation that to me makes no sense. I would much rather it work more like green flame blade, that way it would actually be useful for a spellcaster.
Mitth'raw'nuruodo
Unlike Shillelagh which is only usable for the caster, Magic Stone seems like it is a spell better used to give out to someone else.
And I think it would be too confusing to make it where if you don’t have Extra Attack it scales but if you do have Extra Attack it does not. If it were to scale like other cantrips then it might need reworked so that it says “once per turn” you can throw a stone or use as with a sling. That could get around the EA issue.
We will see what they do with it in 2024. Shillelagh got a little scaling going from d8, to d10 at 5th level, to d12 at 11th level, and for some reason 2d6 at 17th level. So there’s hope Magic Stone will get some kind of boost.
Not that it helps you now, sorry.
Game rules only mean something if they work consistently for everyone (except maybe sometimes the DM). If you are going have a Magic Stone-ed stone do different damage for Druid's range attack but different for everyone who is not that particular Druid, then it should be a separate spell with a different name.
It is already scaled up as a normal sling only does 1d4 damage. Additionally, it makes the attack magical to overcome resistances to normal attacks.
Nothing it stopping you from multiclassing into Fighter to get more attacks or get a team member to Haste you.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
but it takes 5 levels of multiclassing into fighter to get that, every other cantrip scales with character level, magic stone only scales with class levels in specific classes, none of which actually get it without feats, it makes a spell that could be really versatile way harder to use than I think it should be.
Mitth'raw'nuruodo
yeah but it kinda makes sense, the stone is a magic ammo, as the one who enchanted it I am essentially attuned to it in a way that other people aren't, at least that is how I would homebrew it if I were dm to justify the balance change, after all artificer is automatically attuned to magic items they create.
Mitth'raw'nuruodo
yeah it probably would be simplest just to say that it scales like normal and only 1 can be thrown per turn.
Mitth'raw'nuruodo
I have an alternative idea, what if you get a total amount of d6's that can be added to stones and this increases at higher levels? for example: at level 1-4 it is 1 stone with 1d6, at level 5-11 it is 1 with 2d6 or 2 with 1d6, throwing 2 gives more damage since you add the damage modifier twice and you get 2 chances to hit, so it is still better when used by fighter but isn't rendered totally useless for druid, at level 11-16 you have 3d6 available and can divide it how you wish, and then at level 17 it is 4d6, you could make 2 2d6 stones but by this level that is frankly worse for any martial class than just using their own weapons at this point due to their various buffs and abilities.
TLDR: what if you have a total number of d6's available to add and this increases at higher levels from 1 at level 1 to 4 at level 17 and you can divide them how you wish between stones?
Mitth'raw'nuruodo