So I recently started playing a Druid that has Magic Stone as his main damaging spell, but looking closer I noticed that the damage doesn't scale by level like other cantrips. I've tried to think of why this might be. Do you guys think this is an oversight or might there be a reason for it not scaling?
Like Shillelagh, you add your WIS modifier to the damage, and that is the only scaling for these two cantrips. These are much better at low-medium level damage-wise than the others like Produce flame. But even at higher levels, they still guarantee a higher minimum damage.
I see your point there. Gives you higher consistency of damage rather than higher range of damage. And with Magic Stone, since you could technically give the three bullets to the Fighter who has additional attacks later on and could use all of them in one round, I see where that could be abused.
As with Shillelagh, they needed to balance it against the possibility of, for example, dipping Druid while taking majority Fighter levels and having a multitude of Extra Attacks. If the powers scaled like spell attack cantrips, it could easily get out of hand.
As with Shillelagh, they needed to balance it against the possibility of, for example, dipping Druid while taking majority Fighter levels and having a multitude of Extra Attacks. If the powers scaled like spell attack cantrips, it could easily get out of hand.
Don't even multiclass, just take Magic Initiate. On second thought, shillelagh and magic stone don't exactly compare favorably to martial weapons in the hands of characters with max Str/Dex.
As with Shillelagh, they needed to balance it against the possibility of, for example, dipping Druid while taking majority Fighter levels and having a multitude of Extra Attacks. If the powers scaled like spell attack cantrips, it could easily get out of hand.
Don't even multiclass, just take Magic Initiate. On second thought, shillelagh and magic stone don't exactly compare favorably to martial weapons in the hands of characters with max Str/Dex.
Exactly - if the cantrips scaled then suddenly it would be better to use these workarounds to obtain them than to swing your sword. As is, they're just nice ways to be less MAD.
Like Shillelagh, you add your WIS modifier to the damage, and that is the only scaling for these two cantrips. These are much better at low-medium level damage-wise than the others like Produce flame. But even at higher levels, they still guarantee a higher minimum damage.
The problem with that logic is that unlike shillelagh, magic stone doesn't work with Extra Attack, so it's far worse. You also can't use it for opportunity attacks or gain any benefit from melee-based boosts. It's a pretty badly designed spell IMO.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
Why does Magic Stone not work with Extra Attack? Magic Stone is a ranged spell attack, so it does work with Extra Attack.
Hmm, after some investigation it seems that it does work with Extra Attack. I was confusing the Cast a Spell action with it being a spell attack, and had thought EA only worked with weapon attacks.
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"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
As with Shillelagh, they needed to balance it against the possibility of, for example, dipping Druid while taking majority Fighter levels and having a multitude of Extra Attacks. If the powers scaled like spell attack cantrips, it could easily get out of hand.
Don't even multiclass, just take Magic Initiate. On second thought, shillelagh and magic stone don't exactly compare favorably to martial weapons in the hands of characters with max Str/Dex.
Oooh Very good points. Our group NEVER multi-classes so sometimes I forget it's a thing. When I hit lv two I had my Druid take Frostbite with his Circle of the Land bonus cantrip so I have that for back-up damage now. Guess I just won't be nuking anybody with my sling stones haha.
I believe as a thrown weapon Magic Stone "works" and "doesn't" work with Extra Attack.
If I've read how Thrown weapons work you get 1 free "draw", which means you can only throw 1 stone a turn "draw a stone, throw a stone" without the 2 weapon fighting feat, "1st draw a stone, throw a stone, 2nd draw a stone, throw a stone.
As ammunition in a sling I believe the "draw" becomes free due to the Ammunition rule
I believe as a thrown weapon Magic Stone "works" and "doesn't" work with Extra Attack.
If I've read how Thrown weapons work you get 1 free "draw", which means you can only throw 1 stone a turn "draw a stone, throw a stone" without the 2 weapon fighting feat, "1st draw a stone, throw a stone, 2nd draw a stone, throw a stone.
As ammunition in a sling I believe the "draw" becomes free due to the Ammunition rule
Here I don't agree, Metal. In the Thrown property description, there is no mention that you can't throw more than 1 missile on your turn.
They count as missiles, I think, not weapons to be drawn like daggers.
The stone deals the damage listed in the spell. The rules of the spell don't distinguish between being thrown and being hurled from a sling when it comes to the damage it deals.
The way 'Magic Stone' is writen, as a bonus action, you "make a ranged spell attack". This seems to be a way for casters to use their bonus action to get extra attacks. You have to touch the stone (or stones) because the spell range is touch, but it uses your casting attribute for the attack and damage rolls.
If you had extra attack features it looks like... you could throw up to three of them? This seems to be the way this cantrip scales.
If you throw it, it has a range of 60 feet. Don't bother getting a sling imho.
It isn't anything like a plus 5 weapon. If you are refering to your casting stat, it isn't a 20 at first level anyways (unless you are rolling for stats and getting lucky).
The damage is equivolent to a hand crossbow bolt that uses Dex for attack and damage (1d6+bonus). Dex is aguably a more useful stat for the bow user though because it is also useful for AC, saving throws, and initiative.
Think of it as an extra attack as a bonus action from a hand crossbow using the crossbow expert feat. Only you don't get the other features of that feat (ignoring loading, no disadvantage on attacks from melee range).
Hey everyone,
So I recently started playing a Druid that has Magic Stone as his main damaging spell, but looking closer I noticed that the damage doesn't scale by level like other cantrips. I've tried to think of why this might be. Do you guys think this is an oversight or might there be a reason for it not scaling?
Like Shillelagh, you add your WIS modifier to the damage, and that is the only scaling for these two cantrips. These are much better at low-medium level damage-wise than the others like Produce flame. But even at higher levels, they still guarantee a higher minimum damage.
I see your point there. Gives you higher consistency of damage rather than higher range of damage. And with Magic Stone, since you could technically give the three bullets to the Fighter who has additional attacks later on and could use all of them in one round, I see where that could be abused.
As with Shillelagh, they needed to balance it against the possibility of, for example, dipping Druid while taking majority Fighter levels and having a multitude of Extra Attacks. If the powers scaled like spell attack cantrips, it could easily get out of hand.
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Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
Why does Magic Stone not work with Extra Attack? Magic Stone is a ranged spell attack, so it does work with Extra Attack.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
filcat,
I believe as a thrown weapon Magic Stone "works" and "doesn't" work with Extra Attack.
If I've read how Thrown weapons work you get 1 free "draw", which means you can only throw 1 stone a turn "draw a stone, throw a stone" without the 2 weapon fighting feat, "1st draw a stone, throw a stone, 2nd draw a stone, throw a stone.
As ammunition in a sling I believe the "draw" becomes free due to the Ammunition rule
Being slung, would the magic stone get the bonus of stone, the sling or both?
The stone deals the damage listed in the spell. The rules of the spell don't distinguish between being thrown and being hurled from a sling when it comes to the damage it deals.
So would a throw of three magic stones count as one attack. If the sling is used, would that to hit bonus be added to the spell bonus?
One attack counts as one attack. If you throw 3 stones, that's 3 attacks.
Thought a plus 5 was excessive for a magic pebble at lvl 1
The way 'Magic Stone' is writen, as a bonus action, you "make a ranged spell attack". This seems to be a way for casters to use their bonus action to get extra attacks. You have to touch the stone (or stones) because the spell range is touch, but it uses your casting attribute for the attack and damage rolls.
If you had extra attack features it looks like... you could throw up to three of them? This seems to be the way this cantrip scales.
If you throw it, it has a range of 60 feet. Don't bother getting a sling imho.
It isn't anything like a plus 5 weapon. If you are refering to your casting stat, it isn't a 20 at first level anyways (unless you are rolling for stats and getting lucky).
The damage is equivolent to a hand crossbow bolt that uses Dex for attack and damage (1d6+bonus). Dex is aguably a more useful stat for the bow user though because it is also useful for AC, saving throws, and initiative.
Think of it as an extra attack as a bonus action from a hand crossbow using the crossbow expert feat. Only you don't get the other features of that feat (ignoring loading, no disadvantage on attacks from melee range).