Wrong. That clarification is for the Archery Fighting Style, which specifies "ranged weapon", not "ranged weapon attack".
You are right. I stand corrected:
The first two benefits of sharpshooter are for ranged attacks and that includes thrown weapons, like daggers. But the third one is for ranged weapon only.
Wrong. That clarification is for the Archery Fighting Style, which specifies "ranged weapon", not "ranged weapon attack".
You are right. I stand corrected:
The first two benefits of sharpshooter are for ranged attacks and that includes thrown weapons, like daggers. But the third one is for ranged weapon only.
But if I were the DM, I'd allow it in my game. If I were a player in a game (and hope to be soon) I'd probably needle the DM for half a second. I mean, c'mon!
Filcat, since you're obviously well tapped into the PbP community here, of you know of any openings (especially for a dagger throwing Rogue) keep me in mind!
Filcat, since you're obviously well tapped into the PbP community here, of you know of any openings (especially for a dagger throwing Rogue) keep me in mind!
Filcat, since you're obviously well tapped into the PbP community here, of you know of any openings (especially for a dagger throwing Rogue) keep me in mind!
CUBE
There's an opening in my Old School D&D campaign, but character death is very likely.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Filcat, since you're obviously well tapped into the PbP community here, of you know of any openings (especially for a dagger throwing Rogue) keep me in mind!
CUBE
There's an opening in my Old School D&D campaign, but character death is very likely.
I appreciate the offer. I'll take a look, but (from just a quick glance) I'm not sure the style would scratch my plot-junkie itch.
Filcat, since you're obviously well tapped into the PbP community here, of you know of any openings (especially for a dagger throwing Rogue) keep me in mind!
CUBE
There's an opening in my Old School D&D campaign, but character death is very likely.
I appreciate the offer. I'll take a look, but (from just a quick glance) I'm not sure the style would scratch my plot-junkie itch.
CUBE
What tipped you off? The "not even attempting to pretend to have a plot" thing? You're right; its point is that it doesn't have a plot.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Filcat, since you're obviously well tapped into the PbP community here, of you know of any openings (especially for a dagger throwing Rogue) keep me in mind!
CUBE
There's an opening in my Old School D&D campaign, but character death is very likely.
I appreciate the offer. I'll take a look, but (from just a quick glance) I'm not sure the style would scratch my plot-junkie itch.
CUBE
What tipped you off? The "not even attempting to pretend to have a plot" thing? You're right; its point is that it doesn't have a plot.
Yeah, I picked up on that. Just not sure if that's a style that will work for me. Like I said, I'll give it a deeper look and get back to you.
There's a work around with the sharpshooter feat to gain all the benefits instead of just the first 2, and it's a simple one at that! Instead of using daggers, use darts! They are considered simple ranged weapons, have the finesse property, the weight of each dart is ¼ the weight of a dagger, and it costs 5cp instead of the daggers usual 2gp! If any dm wants to give you 💩 about using throwing daggers with the sharpshooter feat, then here's your solution!
But with that logic a character who has the right items and feats could have a +2 to thrown weapon attacks and a +4 to thrown weapon damage before adding a +1-3 weapon
But with that logic a character who has the right items and feats could have a +2 to thrown weapon attacks and a +4 to thrown weapon damage before adding a +1-3 weapon
The Archery fighting style applies to Ranged Weapons.
The Duelist fighting style applies to Melee Weapons.
The Thrown Weapon fighting style applies to weapons with the Thrown property. This can stack with either Archery or Duelist depending on if you are using something like a Dart or a Javelin respectively.
Couldnt you circumvent this by throwing a ranged weapon like this guy? Give a heavy crossbow the thrown property then throw the crossbow. It has the ranged property, so it should benefit from Sharpshooter.
Couldnt you circumvent this by throwing a ranged weapon like this guy? Give a heavy crossbow the thrown property then throw the crossbow. It has the ranged property, so it should benefit from Sharpshooter.
The Dart is a Ranged Weapon with the Thrown property so with it you can stack the Thrown Fighting Style and Archery Fighting Style like in that article, no shenanigans required.
Also there are a few issues with the build suggested in that article. First, they take Great Weapon Master as their 1st level feat from Variant Human but both benefits of the feat only apply to melee attacks. They never suggest using it with a ranged attack but it seems wasteful to take a feat you only use from levels 1-5 when you could have chosen another feat or a different race entirely.
Second, they claim that when you increase in size the damage die of your weapon doubles. This is not true and the section of the DMG they reference is a guideline for DMs when homebrewing monsters (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#Step11Damage). It is even a guideline that Wizards of the Coast chooses not to follow at times, like with the Ogre. What happens to a player's damage when they, and their gear, changes in size is described in whatever effect causes the change, like the Enlarge/Reduce spell. Specifically with the Path of the Giant's Giant Stature feature your damage is not changed when you grow to Large size but your reach is increased by 5ft.
Finally, the build is actually premised on a mistake in the RAW. They claim that by using Elemental Cleaver to give a Crossbow, heavy the Thrown property they can then make ranged attacks with it using Strength. You absolutely can give a Crossbow, heavy the Thrown property with Elemental Cleaver, but you still need to use Dexterity when throwing it. The Thrown property allows you to make ranged attacks with a weapon. If the weapon is a melee weapon then you use the same ability modifier as when making melee attacks with it when throwing it. A Crossbow, heavy is a ranged weapon, not a melee weapon, and so uses Dexterity when making ranged attacks with it. A Dart can use Strength when throwing it because it has the Finesse property. The build can still work but you have to focus on Dexterity instead of Strength and you don't benefit from Crushing Throw which means no Rage damage on your attacks.
If you use the Heavy crossbow as an improvised weapon to bonk people then you could use Great weapon master and sharpshooter at the same time, since Great weapon master requires the weapon to be heavy and make a melee attack with it, while sharpshooter requires the weapon to be ranged which it is so when you make the attack you could give it -10 to hit for +20 damage I would highly suggest getting tavern brawler though otherwise a -10 -prof to hit would be pretty bad
Proficiency isn't really a problem though because a Barbarian is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, which includes the heavy crossbow. This is likely enough for most DMs. Also, you are likely bludgeoning with the crossbow in a way similar enough to a mace or morningstar to be considered proficient in this improvised use of the crossbow.
The real problem is any build for this would just be better off doing literally anything else. A ranged weapon improvised to make melee attacks has a 1d4 damage die per the PHB. Assuming a standard point buy with a 16-17 in strength you don't get both feats until level 8. This means you have a +6 to hit with melee weapons. With the penalties from GWM and SS your bonus to hit is -4. This means against the typical AC of CR 8 enemies of 16 you only hit on a natural 20 and do a wopping 5.85 total dpr for your two attacks. And that is assuming advantage from Reckless Attacks.
With only a +1 dex mod you are better off just using the heavy crossbow to make ranged attacks using SS even if you don't have advantage. Your damage die goes up to 1d10 and your to hit goes up to -1 and your total DPR is 7.15. Amusingly, your bonus damage from dex is so bad that SS is still worthwhile even though you only have a 20% chance to hit while using it. If you don't use SS your to hit goes up to +4 (Yay, it is positive!) but your total DPR is only 6.4.
And all of this ignores the fact that the character could just drop the crossbow and pick up a great axe.
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Does the Sharpshooter feat apply to Melee weapons with the Thrown property when they are used for Ranged attacks?
Thanks!
CUBE
DCI: 3319125026
It specifies "ranged weapon attacks" so yes.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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No. Ranged weapon are those weapons listed under the tables simple ranged weapons and martial ranged weapon.
http://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/06/20/ranged-and-thrown-weapon/
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
DCI: 3319125026
As an aside:
Filcat, since you're obviously well tapped into the PbP community here, of you know of any openings (especially for a dagger throwing Rogue) keep me in mind!
CUBE
DCI: 3319125026
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
DCI: 3319125026
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Tooltips (Help/aid)
DCI: 3319125026
There's a work around with the sharpshooter feat to gain all the benefits instead of just the first 2, and it's a simple one at that! Instead of using daggers, use darts! They are considered simple ranged weapons, have the finesse property, the weight of each dart is ¼ the weight of a dagger, and it costs 5cp instead of the daggers usual 2gp! If any dm wants to give you 💩 about using throwing daggers with the sharpshooter feat, then here's your solution!
But with that logic a character who has the right items and feats could have a +2 to thrown weapon attacks and a +4 to thrown weapon damage before adding a +1-3 weapon
The Archery fighting style applies to Ranged Weapons.
The Duelist fighting style applies to Melee Weapons.
The Thrown Weapon fighting style applies to weapons with the Thrown property. This can stack with either Archery or Duelist depending on if you are using something like a Dart or a Javelin respectively.
Couldnt you circumvent this by throwing a ranged weapon like this guy? Give a heavy crossbow the thrown property then throw the crossbow. It has the ranged property, so it should benefit from Sharpshooter.
https://www.caverns-and-creatures.com/builds/its-raw-a-giant-barbarian-build
The Dart is a Ranged Weapon with the Thrown property so with it you can stack the Thrown Fighting Style and Archery Fighting Style like in that article, no shenanigans required.
Also there are a few issues with the build suggested in that article. First, they take Great Weapon Master as their 1st level feat from Variant Human but both benefits of the feat only apply to melee attacks. They never suggest using it with a ranged attack but it seems wasteful to take a feat you only use from levels 1-5 when you could have chosen another feat or a different race entirely.
Second, they claim that when you increase in size the damage die of your weapon doubles. This is not true and the section of the DMG they reference is a guideline for DMs when homebrewing monsters (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#Step11Damage). It is even a guideline that Wizards of the Coast chooses not to follow at times, like with the Ogre. What happens to a player's damage when they, and their gear, changes in size is described in whatever effect causes the change, like the Enlarge/Reduce spell. Specifically with the Path of the Giant's Giant Stature feature your damage is not changed when you grow to Large size but your reach is increased by 5ft.
Finally, the build is actually premised on a mistake in the RAW. They claim that by using Elemental Cleaver to give a Crossbow, heavy the Thrown property they can then make ranged attacks with it using Strength. You absolutely can give a Crossbow, heavy the Thrown property with Elemental Cleaver, but you still need to use Dexterity when throwing it. The Thrown property allows you to make ranged attacks with a weapon. If the weapon is a melee weapon then you use the same ability modifier as when making melee attacks with it when throwing it. A Crossbow, heavy is a ranged weapon, not a melee weapon, and so uses Dexterity when making ranged attacks with it. A Dart can use Strength when throwing it because it has the Finesse property. The build can still work but you have to focus on Dexterity instead of Strength and you don't benefit from Crushing Throw which means no Rage damage on your attacks.
Well thought out answer. Thanks!
If you use the Heavy crossbow as an improvised weapon to bonk people then you could use Great weapon master and sharpshooter at the same time, since Great weapon master requires the weapon to be heavy and make a melee attack with it, while sharpshooter requires the weapon to be ranged which it is so when you make the attack you could give it -10 to hit for +20 damage I would highly suggest getting tavern brawler though otherwise a -10 -prof to hit would be pretty bad
Yeah, this does work RAW but is just not good.
Proficiency isn't really a problem though because a Barbarian is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, which includes the heavy crossbow. This is likely enough for most DMs. Also, you are likely bludgeoning with the crossbow in a way similar enough to a mace or morningstar to be considered proficient in this improvised use of the crossbow.
The real problem is any build for this would just be better off doing literally anything else. A ranged weapon improvised to make melee attacks has a 1d4 damage die per the PHB. Assuming a standard point buy with a 16-17 in strength you don't get both feats until level 8. This means you have a +6 to hit with melee weapons. With the penalties from GWM and SS your bonus to hit is -4. This means against the typical AC of CR 8 enemies of 16 you only hit on a natural 20 and do a wopping 5.85 total dpr for your two attacks. And that is assuming advantage from Reckless Attacks.
With only a +1 dex mod you are better off just using the heavy crossbow to make ranged attacks using SS even if you don't have advantage. Your damage die goes up to 1d10 and your to hit goes up to -1 and your total DPR is 7.15. Amusingly, your bonus damage from dex is so bad that SS is still worthwhile even though you only have a 20% chance to hit while using it. If you don't use SS your to hit goes up to +4 (Yay, it is positive!) but your total DPR is only 6.4.
And all of this ignores the fact that the character could just drop the crossbow and pick up a great axe.