It would seem she’ll defense has been updated, at least in the DnD beyond app, to say this: “As an action, you can withdraw into your shell to gain a +4 to AC and advantage on STR and CON saving throws. While in your shell, you are probe, your speed is 0, you have disadvantage on DEX saving throws, and you can’t take reactions. You can emerge from your shell as a bonus action.”
So they got rid of the “no other actions but emerging” stipulation, making shell defense WAY BETTER than before haha.
No, it's still "no other action but emerging" in the actual trait description, they just left it out of the snippet to make it shorter. But since the App character sheet only has the snippet and not the full description, your confusion is understandable.
It seems strange to me that, with Shell Defense, "you have advantage on Strength ... saving throws". The DMG says that strength saving throws are used for "Opposing a force that would physically move or bind you". I can appreciate that an opponent might have disadvantage on strength checks to move and maybe even to bind you but, at least in the first case, might be little that a tortle might actively do if they're prone. I guess you could say that the strength of tortles might directly correlate with their weight. Otherwise, I don't see how it would work unless there was some kind of object interaction going on.
This puzzles me as I'd have thought that anyone might be able to become a deadweight to make it difficult for them to be moved and that a dead weight thing might be a more general rule.
I'd have thought that the relevance of saving throw strength would be more associated with a more active resistance of movement. If anything I'd have thought that tortling up would make it more difficult for you to hold onto things. I could even imagine that some turtles could potentially be really easy to move if tortled up on the sledge tracks of Icewind Dale. In some situations I could even imagine a possibility of attaching a team of huskies to a, somehow warm enough, tortle and away you go. Perhaps tortle shells have jagged edges, but where's the fun in that?
@naruhoodie that doesn’t make any sense. Such a difference in length is so negligible that it would be more work to change the wording to that. It’s absurd.
I’ll take it for it’s literal text since a Tortle could still conceivably cast spells or shoot a crossbow while inside their shell. Speaking strictly from a logical standpoint.
You can withdraw into your shell as an action. Until you emerge, you gain a +4 bonus to AC, and you have advantage on Strength and Constitution saving throws. While in your shell, you are prone, your speed is 0 and can’t increase, you have disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws, you can’t take reactions, and the only action you can take is a bonus action to emerge from your shell.
It seems to me that that is old text. I know what it says, so no need to re-share as if I don’t know what it says. Besides, that fact makes whole point of shell defense nearly moot. It seems to me that the creators decided to update a mechanic that discourages the use of such a race. The inability to perform any actions or wear armor makes a Tortle a liability in the late-game, relegating the Tortle to early game play. The change makes logical sense and it seems it was just oversight on their part to not update the main page Tortle race description.
In either case, what is written in the dndbeyond app is strictly better in every way.
That's from the current DnDBeyond race page for the Tortle.
I mean, you do you if your DM is cool with it, but if you've seen a real-life turtle tucked into its shell, its head and limbs are all tucked inside or right up against the shell. That doesn't allow for doing anything with them.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
It seems to me that that is old text. I know what it says, so no need to re-share as if I don’t know what it says. Besides, that fact makes whole point of shell defense nearly moot. It seems to me that the creators decided to update a mechanic that discourages the use of such a race. The inability to perform any actions or wear armor makes a Tortle a liability in the late-game, relegating the Tortle to early game play. The change makes logical sense and it seems it was just oversight on their part to not update the main page Tortle race description.
In either case, what is written in the dndbeyond app is strictly better in every way.
No it isn't, the text naruhoodie linked to is the actual text from the TTP and AFAIK there has been no errata to the Tortle race. If the app says something else it is simply wrong.
It seems to me that that is old text. I know what it says, so no need to re-share as if I don’t know what it says. Besides, that fact makes whole point of shell defense nearly moot. It seems to me that the creators decided to update a mechanic that discourages the use of such a race. The inability to perform any actions or wear armor makes a Tortle a liability in the late-game, relegating the Tortle to early game play. The change makes logical sense and it seems it was just oversight on their part to not update the main page Tortle race description.
In either case, what is written in the dndbeyond app is strictly better in every way.
No it isn't, the text naruhoodie linked to is the actual text from the TTP and AFAIK there has been no errata to the Tortle race. If the app says something else it is simply wrong.
Apologies for bumping this a month later, but it's not just the app. The website/character sheet display two different entries at the same time. Clicking the entry under both the Actions and Features & Traits tab opens the full description from the sourcebook. I included a link to a screenshot of my character sheet.
The sourcebook does still contain the text that naruhoodie quoted but the actual character sheet rewords the ability and removes the part saying "[...]the only action[...]".
I am now wondering if there are any other features, traits, or abilities that are displayed incorrectly on the character sheet this way. This could cause a lot of confusion between players and DMs.
Readying an action allows you to use a regular Action (Attack, Cast a Spell (that has a casting time of one action), Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Hide, Search, or Use an Object) or move up to your speed as a reaction. Secondly, you cannot Ready a bonus action.
The Shell Defense trait says:
...you can’t take reactions, and the only action you can take is a bonus action to emerge from your shell.
You can't Ready an action because that would be taking a reaction and Shell Defense does not allow you to take any reactions. You can't ready any bonus actions at all which means all you can do is emerge from your shell on your turn.
I think what onericjaepeno is saying is that you could ready the shell defense, but I'm hard pressed to find the benefit.
Okay, that would be doable I think, perhaps if the expected trigger is something that the Shell Defense STR/CON save advantages and/or AC bonus would give an immediate help for. Like, if the Tortle is behind cover but concerned that there might be a short poison cloud attack or wind blast that requires a STR save.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
It would seem she’ll defense has been updated, at least in the DnD beyond app, to say this: “As an action, you can withdraw into your shell to gain a +4 to AC and advantage on STR and CON saving throws. While in your shell, you are probe, your speed is 0, you have disadvantage on DEX saving throws, and you can’t take reactions. You can emerge from your shell as a bonus action.”
So they got rid of the “no other actions but emerging” stipulation, making shell defense WAY BETTER than before haha.
No, it's still "no other action but emerging" in the actual trait description, they just left it out of the snippet to make it shorter. But since the App character sheet only has the snippet and not the full description, your confusion is understandable.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
...But given that the character sheet in the App only shows the snippet, your confusion is understandable.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
It seems strange to me that, with Shell Defense, "you have advantage on Strength ... saving throws". The DMG says that strength saving throws are used for "Opposing a force that would physically move or bind you". I can appreciate that an opponent might have disadvantage on strength checks to move and maybe even to bind you but, at least in the first case, might be little that a tortle might actively do if they're prone. I guess you could say that the strength of tortles might directly correlate with their weight. Otherwise, I don't see how it would work unless there was some kind of object interaction going on.
This puzzles me as I'd have thought that anyone might be able to become a deadweight to make it difficult for them to be moved and that a dead weight thing might be a more general rule.
I'd have thought that the relevance of saving throw strength would be more associated with a more active resistance of movement. If anything I'd have thought that tortling up would make it more difficult for you to hold onto things. I could even imagine that some turtles could potentially be really easy to move if tortled up on the sledge tracks of Icewind Dale. In some situations I could even imagine a possibility of attaching a team of huskies to a, somehow warm enough, tortle and away you go. Perhaps tortle shells have jagged edges, but where's the fun in that?
@naruhoodie that doesn’t make any sense. Such a difference in length is so negligible that it would be more work to change the wording to that. It’s absurd.
I’ll take it for it’s literal text since a Tortle could still conceivably cast spells or shoot a crossbow while inside their shell. Speaking strictly from a logical standpoint.
And yet...
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
It seems to me that that is old text. I know what it says, so no need to re-share as if I don’t know what it says. Besides, that fact makes whole point of shell defense nearly moot.
It seems to me that the creators decided to update a mechanic that discourages the use of such a race. The inability to perform any actions or wear armor makes a Tortle a liability in the late-game, relegating the Tortle to early game play. The change makes logical sense and it seems it was just oversight on their part to not update the main page Tortle race description.
In either case, what is written in the dndbeyond app is strictly better in every way.
That's from the current DnDBeyond race page for the Tortle.
I mean, you do you if your DM is cool with it, but if you've seen a real-life turtle tucked into its shell, its head and limbs are all tucked inside or right up against the shell. That doesn't allow for doing anything with them.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
No it isn't, the text naruhoodie linked to is the actual text from the TTP and AFAIK there has been no errata to the Tortle race. If the app says something else it is simply wrong.
Apologies for bumping this a month later, but it's not just the app. The website/character sheet display two different entries at the same time. Clicking the entry under both the Actions and Features & Traits tab opens the full description from the sourcebook. I included a link to a screenshot of my character sheet.
https://i.imgur.com/ykWFnVV.png
The sourcebook does still contain the text that naruhoodie quoted but the actual character sheet rewords the ability and removes the part saying "[...]the only action[...]".
I am now wondering if there are any other features, traits, or abilities that are displayed incorrectly on the character sheet this way. This could cause a lot of confusion between players and DMs.
Yea that seems like a DDB bug tbh.
I went ahead and reported it as such, since the mods aren't as likely to be checking this forum for Bug reports.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
you could ready it for your action and the use it right
Nat 20? [roll]1d20[/roll]
No.
Why not
Nat 20? [roll]1d20[/roll]
This a multipart answer.
Readying an action allows you to use a regular Action (Attack, Cast a Spell (that has a casting time of one action), Dash, Disengage, Dodge, Help, Hide, Search, or Use an Object) or move up to your speed as a reaction. Secondly, you cannot Ready a bonus action.
The Shell Defense trait says:
You can't Ready an action because that would be taking a reaction and Shell Defense does not allow you to take any reactions. You can't ready any bonus actions at all which means all you can do is emerge from your shell on your turn.
I think what onericjaepeno is saying is that you could ready the shell defense, but I'm hard pressed to find the benefit.
Okay, that would be doable I think, perhaps if the expected trigger is something that the Shell Defense STR/CON save advantages and/or AC bonus would give an immediate help for. Like, if the Tortle is behind cover but concerned that there might be a short poison cloud attack or wind blast that requires a STR save.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Yea that is what I was getting at
Nat 20? [roll]1d20[/roll]