I’ve read a variety of posts saying shell defence is lacking. Is there anything keeping someone from using shell defence then casting spells in subsequent turns? Can you just drop into Shell Defence in a big crowd of goblins and then start casting Sword Burst in subsequent turns.
23AC (with shield & shell defence), even if you’re prone, seems pretty good.
Shell defense really is lackluster. Situational use against ranged attacks or poison clouds (saving throw advantage), but otherwise not really worthwhile. The bonus AC you get mostly just makes up for being prone when you're in melee and you can't take actions.
About the only use I can imagine for it so far (just started playing a tortle paladin recently) is to advance across an open field on a location defended by archers. If the field is too big to cover with a move+dash, you could move then turtle up.
Being prone helps you against the archers (as long as the dm doesnt rule they too elevated to be affected by the penalty)
Next turn, you could emerge with your bonus action, move and then dash, perhaps to an alcove with cover from the archers above. In that very very specific instance, it might be handy.
Otherwise, yeah, I can't think of a situation in which id be able to use it.
Is what it is. More thematic than anything. The racial abilities aren't typically meant to be too powerful.
About the only use I can imagine for it so far (just started playing a tortle paladin recently) is to advance across an open field on a location defended by archers. If the field is too big to cover with a move+dash, you could move then turtle up.
Being prone helps you against the archers (as long as the dm doesnt rule they too elevated to be affected by the penalty)
Next turn, you could emerge with your bonus action, move and then dash, perhaps to an alcove with cover from the archers above. In that very very specific instance, it might be handy.
I hadn't considered this use. The action to go into your shell combined with the bonus action to leave mean that well-defended advancement under fire is possible even without any cover. It would be slow, but you can leave your shell as a bonus action, stand up, move 15 feet, and re-enter your shell as an action.
Compelled duel is a bad idea. You get extra AC but are PRONE. Shell is only worth while against ranged attacks, and then only if you are concentrating on a valuable spell.
I'm playing a Tortle Grave Cleric and I think this ability is fairly useful. If I can cast a concentration spell such as Bane or Bless and hide in the back AND get advantage on CON saves, pop out and play support fire or healing, seems pretty useful. Or I can cast spirit guardians on round 1, then in round 2 run into the middle of the melee mess and "turtle up". 21 or 23 AC (depending on how DM rules how shields work in this circumstance) and still have advantage on concentration checks to maintain guardians and be a field medic or land an inflict or cure wounds in a pinch (or any short range/touch spells) seems effective. Perhaps I just like the idea more than how effective it is (I haven't gotten a chance to playtest it too much yet), but Tortle clerics/primary casters who NEED to maintain concentration for those awesome encounter changing spells get a huge advantage with the +4 AC and advantage on the saving throw. Considering a 21 AC is already pretty dang high, it's almost unheard of for a primary caster, and how useful concentration spells are that advantage is pretty clutch. As a non-caster this ability is probably pretty much a dud other than a few random chance situations.
If you think this is great when you're running into melee, are you actually going prone when you turtle up? Advantage on melee attacks against you basically cancels out any AC benefit you get.
Aye, and it's not ideal, and much more useful in a confined space or in a more melee orientated group that could keep you just out of reach. In an open area, it's definitely a subpar tactic, and even in ideal situations there are probably other things you could do that would be equally useful. It's definitely more useful as a ranged support who uses banishment/polymorph/etc to get rid of a critical combatant. But if you wanted to get up in their faces war cleric style 21/23 AC is still a pretty high bar to overcome for minions and a lot of the bigger baddies might hit you regardless. On paper it's pretty easy to negate, in practice I've found it to be a different way to be a more interesting combatant on the field and as useful. I also wouldn't continue to use it more than once. Once you lose concentration or pop back out of the shell, I wouldn't waste another action going back in.
I'm looking at the description and it doesn't say "the only action" part. Here is the description:
"You can withdraw into your shell as an action. Until you emerge, you gain a +4 bonus to AC, and you have advantage on Strength and Constitution saving throws. While in your shell, you are prone, your speed is 0 and can’t increase, you have disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws, you can’t take reactions, and the only action you can take is a bonus action to emerge from your shell"
does it say somewhere else for "the only action" part?
I'm looking at the description and it doesn't say "the only action" part. Here is the description:
"You can withdraw into your shell as an action. Until you emerge, you gain a +4 bonus to AC, and you have advantage on Strength and Constitution saving throws. While in your shell, you are prone, your speed is 0 and can’t increase, you have disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws, you can’t take reactions, and the only action you can take is a bonus action to emerge from your shell"
does it say somewhere else for "the only action" part?
No it only says it in the part you looked at and quoted. What is the problem exactly?
One possible use I thought of for Shell Defense is if you are hit with some kind of lingering condition or effect that lets you try to save each round to end it, but it has a high DC (say, it's from a high-CR devil or demon or other nasty beastie or high-level spellcaster) so you'd normally have trouble shaking it. You could retreat into your shell and then you get advantage on your STR or CON saves each turn to end the effect, then pop out once you end it (or stay hidden, if it's something they are likely to try against you again). Or if the condition (or some other factor) is putting your saves at disadvantage and that's slowing you down, shelling up would cancel that disadvantage.
However, some effects require you to use an action to try to save, which Shell Defense does not allow. If I were DMing, I might allow an action for save if the save does not imply physical action (like escaping from a web or other entanglements does).
This might be a rare situation, however, and the trade-off of losing movement, going prone, and being unable to take actions is a big penalty, so it would only make sense in very specific situations.
So I know im late, but Tortle Sorcerer, throw blur on self and shell up, negates any advantage and you can chill safely in melee, more so if you are a draconic sorcerer and snagged Tough not so Squishy anymore with the +3 bonus HP per level.
So I know im late, but Tortle Sorcerer, throw blur on self and shell up, negates any advantage and you can chill safely in melee, more so if you are a draconic sorcerer and snagged Tough not so Squishy anymore with the +3 bonus HP per level.
You're still better off just letting blur impose disadvantage rather and keeping your action available. Advantage/disadvantage provides roughly an average of +5/-5 to attack rolls. Sure, the blur is cancelling out the advantage that attackers get, but you're still losing the disadvantage that they would otherwise have. The only situation that it would be worthwhile to do in melee over the dodge action, is if attackers are already having both advantage and disadvantage cancelled out by other means, such as fighting in darkness. Then it's just a straight AC bonus at the cost of your action. As it is though, for melee, you're just better off using the dodge action.
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I’ve read a variety of posts saying shell defence is lacking. Is there anything keeping someone from using shell defence then casting spells in subsequent turns? Can you just drop into Shell Defence in a big crowd of goblins and then start casting Sword Burst in subsequent turns.
23AC (with shield & shell defence), even if you’re prone, seems pretty good.
While using shell defense, "the only action you can take is a bonus action to emerge from your shell."
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Eew! Terrible.
I guess it might be useful to buy yourself time until someone can heal you, if you’re near death? I struggle to find much use for the action.
You can cast a concentration spell then hide in your shell.
Right! There might be something interesting there.
Maybe a fun idea for a Tank/Cleric?
cast Bless on your team, or Bane on your enemies, and then hide.
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You can still cast the shield spell, right?
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Nope, reactions are actions too.
Shell defense really is lackluster. Situational use against ranged attacks or poison clouds (saving throw advantage), but otherwise not really worthwhile. The bonus AC you get mostly just makes up for being prone when you're in melee and you can't take actions.
About the only use I can imagine for it so far (just started playing a tortle paladin recently) is to advance across an open field on a location defended by archers. If the field is too big to cover with a move+dash, you could move then turtle up.
Being prone helps you against the archers (as long as the dm doesnt rule they too elevated to be affected by the penalty)
Next turn, you could emerge with your bonus action, move and then dash, perhaps to an alcove with cover from the archers above. In that very very specific instance, it might be handy.
Otherwise, yeah, I can't think of a situation in which id be able to use it.
Is what it is. More thematic than anything. The racial abilities aren't typically meant to be too powerful.
I hadn't considered this use. The action to go into your shell combined with the bonus action to leave mean that well-defended advancement under fire is possible even without any cover. It would be slow, but you can leave your shell as a bonus action, stand up, move 15 feet, and re-enter your shell as an action.
I just want it to do what it says on the tin---increase your defense.
Could cast compelled duel then hide in your shell?
Compelled duel is a bad idea. You get extra AC but are PRONE. Shell is only worth while against ranged attacks, and then only if you are concentrating on a valuable spell.
I'm playing a Tortle Grave Cleric and I think this ability is fairly useful. If I can cast a concentration spell such as Bane or Bless and hide in the back AND get advantage on CON saves, pop out and play support fire or healing, seems pretty useful. Or I can cast spirit guardians on round 1, then in round 2 run into the middle of the melee mess and "turtle up". 21 or 23 AC (depending on how DM rules how shields work in this circumstance) and still have advantage on concentration checks to maintain guardians and be a field medic or land an inflict or cure wounds in a pinch (or any short range/touch spells) seems effective. Perhaps I just like the idea more than how effective it is (I haven't gotten a chance to playtest it too much yet), but Tortle clerics/primary casters who NEED to maintain concentration for those awesome encounter changing spells get a huge advantage with the +4 AC and advantage on the saving throw. Considering a 21 AC is already pretty dang high, it's almost unheard of for a primary caster, and how useful concentration spells are that advantage is pretty clutch. As a non-caster this ability is probably pretty much a dud other than a few random chance situations.
If you think this is great when you're running into melee, are you actually going prone when you turtle up? Advantage on melee attacks against you basically cancels out any AC benefit you get.
Aye, and it's not ideal, and much more useful in a confined space or in a more melee orientated group that could keep you just out of reach. In an open area, it's definitely a subpar tactic, and even in ideal situations there are probably other things you could do that would be equally useful. It's definitely more useful as a ranged support who uses banishment/polymorph/etc to get rid of a critical combatant. But if you wanted to get up in their faces war cleric style 21/23 AC is still a pretty high bar to overcome for minions and a lot of the bigger baddies might hit you regardless. On paper it's pretty easy to negate, in practice I've found it to be a different way to be a more interesting combatant on the field and as useful. I also wouldn't continue to use it more than once. Once you lose concentration or pop back out of the shell, I wouldn't waste another action going back in.
I'm looking at the description and it doesn't say "the only action" part. Here is the description:
"You can withdraw into your shell as an action. Until you emerge, you gain a +4 bonus to AC, and you have advantage on Strength and Constitution saving throws. While in your shell, you are prone, your speed is 0 and can’t increase, you have disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws, you can’t take reactions, and the only action you can take is a bonus action to emerge from your shell"
does it say somewhere else for "the only action" part?
No it only says it in the part you looked at and quoted. What is the problem exactly?
One possible use I thought of for Shell Defense is if you are hit with some kind of lingering condition or effect that lets you try to save each round to end it, but it has a high DC (say, it's from a high-CR devil or demon or other nasty beastie or high-level spellcaster) so you'd normally have trouble shaking it. You could retreat into your shell and then you get advantage on your STR or CON saves each turn to end the effect, then pop out once you end it (or stay hidden, if it's something they are likely to try against you again). Or if the condition (or some other factor) is putting your saves at disadvantage and that's slowing you down, shelling up would cancel that disadvantage.
However, some effects require you to use an action to try to save, which Shell Defense does not allow. If I were DMing, I might allow an action for save if the save does not imply physical action (like escaping from a web or other entanglements does).
This might be a rare situation, however, and the trade-off of losing movement, going prone, and being unable to take actions is a big penalty, so it would only make sense in very specific situations.
So I know im late, but Tortle Sorcerer, throw blur on self and shell up, negates any advantage and you can chill safely in melee, more so if you are a draconic sorcerer and snagged Tough not so Squishy anymore with the +3 bonus HP per level.
You're still better off just letting blur impose disadvantage rather and keeping your action available. Advantage/disadvantage provides roughly an average of +5/-5 to attack rolls. Sure, the blur is cancelling out the advantage that attackers get, but you're still losing the disadvantage that they would otherwise have. The only situation that it would be worthwhile to do in melee over the dodge action, is if attackers are already having both advantage and disadvantage cancelled out by other means, such as fighting in darkness. Then it's just a straight AC bonus at the cost of your action. As it is though, for melee, you're just better off using the dodge action.