So, I am playing as a Lizardfold Moon Circle Druid. I am looking to potenially multiclass dip into monk (1 or 2 levels). I have read enough forums and posts to know that the general consenus is that the natural armor of beast shapes negates the monk class's unarmored defense trait. My question is: using that same logic, would unarmored movement also be negated? And if so, wouldn't a monk lizardfolk be unfeasible BECAUSE the lizardfold has natural armor? I haven't found answers to either of these questions.
Edit: Found out that D&D beyond has a Wildshape feature. When I added a lion (no natural armor) and a dire wolf (natural), neither had any AC or Speed increases. Is this the site saying that monk class traits have no effect on wild shape forms, or simply a glitch no one has noticed?
Being naturally armored does not equal "wearing armor", so you can pick either AC calculation you would like, and can use unarmored movement and martial arts features regardless if which is chosen. The slightly grey-er question is whether having a Natural Weapon ("Your fanged maw is a natural weapon...") counts as wielding a weapon, or whether it counts as wielding an unarmed strike ("...which you can use to make unarmed strikes"), or whether you aren't considered wielding it at all unless you make an attack with it, or what... because Natural Weapon doesn't appear in the monk's list of monk weapons, so wielding it could jack up your Martial Arts? Kind of a dumb question for a player race, most DMs would hand waive that away and say you're fine.... but when a monk/druid is Wildshaped into a Bear with claws, some DMs start to squint at it more intently as possibly creating a problem if they don't accept that you only wield your claws when you choose to do so.
As for the second question, the Wildshape features on dndbeyond do some things right, but don't update everything that's impacted by your class features. Partly this may be because "which of my class/race features carry over to my Wildshape?" continues to be a controversial question, despite being pretty clear and comprehensive RAW in my opinion. And then beyond obvious-features, there's the question of to what extent your proficiency bonus starts affecting attacks, non-overlapping skills, etc.... it's an area of your sheet that you probably would be better off having a conversation with your DM and entering some notes for, rather than leaning too heavily on the Wildshape implementation on dndbeyond as an authoritative rule interpretation.
Natural Armor is an AC calculation formula, not actual armor. When a Monk/Druid uses Wild Shape, they have the option of using either the Natural Armor calculation or the Unarmored Defense calculation. The decision to use one or the other does not interfere with the Unarmored Movement feature.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Which race and class features carry over into wild shape is ultimately up to DM. The wild shape rule seem to imply you keep many of them (including unarmored defense and unarmored movement).
Which race and class features carry over into wild shape is ultimately up to DM. The wild shape rule seem to imply you keep many of them (including unarmored defense and unarmored movement).
The wild shape rules explicitly says "you retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source", with an exception for senses. Though I suspect most GMs won't permit things like lizardfolk natural AC to apply.
Which race and class features carry over into wild shape is ultimately up to DM. The wild shape rule seem to imply you keep many of them (including unarmored defense and unarmored movement).
The wild shape rules explicitly says "you retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source", with an exception for senses. Though I suspect most GMs won't permit things like lizardfolk natural AC to apply.
"...and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so." This is the part that DM can rule on.
The slightly grey-er question is whether having a Natural Weapon ("Your fanged maw is a natural weapon...") counts as wielding a weapon, or whether it counts as wielding an unarmed strike ("...which you can use to make unarmed strikes"), or whether you aren't considered wielding it at all unless you make an attack with it, or what... because Natural Weapon doesn't appear in the monk's list of monk weapons, so wielding it could jack up your Martial Arts? Kind of a dumb question for a player race, most DMs would hand waive that away and say you're fine.... but when a monk/druid is Wildshaped into a Bear with claws, some DMs start to squint at it more intently as possibly creating a problem if they don't accept that you only wield your claws when you choose to do so.
So in general, I'd say having natural weapons (claws, jaws, whatever) generally don't disqualify you from the Martial Arts feature or similar. (They're not monk weapons, though.)
The slightly grey-er question is whether having a Natural Weapon ("Your fanged maw is a natural weapon...") counts as wielding a weapon, or whether it counts as wielding an unarmed strike ("...which you can use to make unarmed strikes"), or whether you aren't considered wielding it at all unless you make an attack with it, or what... because Natural Weapon doesn't appear in the monk's list of monk weapons, so wielding it could jack up your Martial Arts? Kind of a dumb question for a player race, most DMs would hand waive that away and say you're fine.... but when a monk/druid is Wildshaped into a Bear with claws, some DMs start to squint at it more intently as possibly creating a problem if they don't accept that you only wield your claws when you choose to do so.
So in general, I'd say having natural weapons (claws, jaws, whatever) generally don't disqualify you from the Martial Arts feature or similar. (They're not monk weapons, though.)
Natural Weapons are not ever considered weapons, and are not eligible for anything that requires an actual weapon like Booming Blade. They do qualify for things that require a melee weapon attack.
They are also not Unarmed Strikes, except for the Natural Weapons granted by a PC racial feature. A PC Aarakocra's Talons do count as an Unarmed Strike, and they do qualify for all of the benefits from Martial Arts. A PC whom has Natural Weapons while in Wild Shape do not count as an Unarmed Strike, and do not qualify for Martial Arts.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It’s a reasonable interpretation, I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure it’s ever spelled out that natural weapons aren’t weapons, or that you only wield equipment and not your own natural weapons or unarmed strikes.reasonable takes that require the reader being reasonable instead of the rules being explicit count as grey area for me.
BTW, discussion of Natural Weapons and how they interact with Martial Arts or other features that talk about wielding weapons just became more relevant with the release of a new Unearthed Arcana.
It’s a reasonable interpretation, I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure it’s ever spelled out that natural weapons aren’t weapons, or that you only wield equipment and not your own natural weapons or unarmed strikes.reasonable takes that require the reader being reasonable instead of the rules being explicit count as grey area for me.
Yeah, it's one area that I agree is a whole lot messier than it reasonably should be. For what it's worth, the PC racial Natural Weapons (Tabaxi, Aarakocra, etc) do explicitly say they are Unarmed Strikes. Creature stat blocks do not, and Crawford has asserted as much (in typical wishy-washy fashion) as well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Simple question how do you calculate a Lizard-man Barbarian AC.
Same way as anyone else: attempt each calculation and take the best. Thus, a lizard-man barbarian with 14 Dex and 14 Con has AC 15 (13+2) based on race, AC 14 (10+2+2) based on class abilities, and you pick the better of those two (15). If he puts on a suit of scale armor, it becomes 16 (14+2).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So, I am playing as a Lizardfold Moon Circle Druid. I am looking to potenially multiclass dip into monk (1 or 2 levels). I have read enough forums and posts to know that the general consenus is that the natural armor of beast shapes negates the monk class's unarmored defense trait. My question is: using that same logic, would unarmored movement also be negated? And if so, wouldn't a monk lizardfolk be unfeasible BECAUSE the lizardfold has natural armor? I haven't found answers to either of these questions.
Edit: Found out that D&D beyond has a Wildshape feature. When I added a lion (no natural armor) and a dire wolf (natural), neither had any AC or Speed increases. Is this the site saying that monk class traits have no effect on wild shape forms, or simply a glitch no one has noticed?
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
D&D Beyond FoundersUnarmored movement says:
I believe that the natural armor racial feature from various races isn't wearing armor.
Hope that helps?
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Being naturally armored does not equal "wearing armor", so you can pick either AC calculation you would like, and can use unarmored movement and martial arts features regardless if which is chosen. The slightly grey-er question is whether having a Natural Weapon ("Your fanged maw is a natural weapon...") counts as wielding a weapon, or whether it counts as wielding an unarmed strike ("...which you can use to make unarmed strikes"), or whether you aren't considered wielding it at all unless you make an attack with it, or what... because Natural Weapon doesn't appear in the monk's list of monk weapons, so wielding it could jack up your Martial Arts? Kind of a dumb question for a player race, most DMs would hand waive that away and say you're fine.... but when a monk/druid is Wildshaped into a Bear with claws, some DMs start to squint at it more intently as possibly creating a problem if they don't accept that you only wield your claws when you choose to do so.
As for the second question, the Wildshape features on dndbeyond do some things right, but don't update everything that's impacted by your class features. Partly this may be because "which of my class/race features carry over to my Wildshape?" continues to be a controversial question, despite being pretty clear and comprehensive RAW in my opinion. And then beyond obvious-features, there's the question of to what extent your proficiency bonus starts affecting attacks, non-overlapping skills, etc.... it's an area of your sheet that you probably would be better off having a conversation with your DM and entering some notes for, rather than leaning too heavily on the Wildshape implementation on dndbeyond as an authoritative rule interpretation.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Natural Armor is an AC calculation formula, not actual armor. When a Monk/Druid uses Wild Shape, they have the option of using either the Natural Armor calculation or the Unarmored Defense calculation. The decision to use one or the other does not interfere with the Unarmored Movement feature.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Which race and class features carry over into wild shape is ultimately up to DM. The wild shape rule seem to imply you keep many of them (including unarmored defense and unarmored movement).
The wild shape rules explicitly says "you retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source", with an exception for senses. Though I suspect most GMs won't permit things like lizardfolk natural AC to apply.
"...and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so." This is the part that DM can rule on.
I did say you should keep many of them.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
ModeratorIn general, features in the game referring to "weapons" are intended to refer to the ones in the Weapons table or corresponding magic items: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/996549348140826624
So in general, I'd say having natural weapons (claws, jaws, whatever) generally don't disqualify you from the Martial Arts feature or similar. (They're not monk weapons, though.)
Natural Weapons are not ever considered weapons, and are not eligible for anything that requires an actual weapon like Booming Blade. They do qualify for things that require a melee weapon attack.
They are also not Unarmed Strikes, except for the Natural Weapons granted by a PC racial feature. A PC Aarakocra's Talons do count as an Unarmed Strike, and they do qualify for all of the benefits from Martial Arts. A PC whom has Natural Weapons while in Wild Shape do not count as an Unarmed Strike, and do not qualify for Martial Arts.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It’s a reasonable interpretation, I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure it’s ever spelled out that natural weapons aren’t weapons, or that you only wield equipment and not your own natural weapons or unarmed strikes.reasonable takes that require the reader being reasonable instead of the rules being explicit count as grey area for me.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
BTW, discussion of Natural Weapons and how they interact with Martial Arts or other features that talk about wielding weapons just became more relevant with the release of a new Unearthed Arcana.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Yeah, it's one area that I agree is a whole lot messier than it reasonably should be. For what it's worth, the PC racial Natural Weapons (Tabaxi, Aarakocra, etc) do explicitly say they are Unarmed Strikes. Creature stat blocks do not, and Crawford has asserted as much (in typical wishy-washy fashion) as well.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Simple question how do you calculate a Lizard-man Barbarian AC.
Same way as anyone else: attempt each calculation and take the best. Thus, a lizard-man barbarian with 14 Dex and 14 Con has AC 15 (13+2) based on race, AC 14 (10+2+2) based on class abilities, and you pick the better of those two (15). If he puts on a suit of scale armor, it becomes 16 (14+2).