Oh, okay... I just linked to it from the general forum listing. I didn't realize it was part of a specific thread. Yeah, my post is definitely not the RaW... just what I think plays better. That said, keep in mind that every edition of DnD after Chainmail has come about because of Homebrew content. The exception becomes the rule, when enough people realize it plays better that way. Today's homebrew will be tomorrow's 7e. Don't discount the validity of the argument, even if it goes against the current rule.
Yea that won't fly in a rules forum. Doesn't matter if it would be a good idea or not, it still has absolutely no validity here.
SagaTympana, within my small group of three GMs, I was the one who read the rule and said that the way the rule reads it is a full normal action the fighter gets with Action Surge, thus they get their multi-attacks. Both of the other GMs did not like that, thought it was over powered, and said it should only be a single attack like Bonus Action gives. When I thought about what damage my 14th level fighter could do with 3 normal attacks, bonus attack, and action surge attacks, I agreed, that would be gross.
GMs always rule and can change or interpret the rules as they choose.
But, your point is great and perfectly on the point. High level spell casters can do huge amounts of damage and taking that into account, action surge is not really that gross. A Death symbol can do 10d10 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful save within 120 diameter circle every melee for 10 minutes to any creature within 60 feet of the symbol. So, while Action Surge is gross, you are correct, other classes have more gross things they can do.
SagaTympana, within my small group of three GMs, I was the one who read the rule and said that the way the rule reads it is a full normal action the fighter gets with Action Surge, thus they get their multi-attacks. Both of the other GMs did not like that, thought it was over powered, and said it should only be a single attack like Bonus Action gives. When I thought about what damage my 14th level fighter could do with 3 normal attacks, bonus attack, and action surge attacks, I agreed, that would be gross.
GMs always rule and can change or interpret the rules as they choose.
But, your point is great and perfectly on the point. High level spell casters can do huge amounts of damage and taking that into account, action surge is not really that gross. A Death symbol can do 10d10 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful save within 120 diameter circle every melee for 10 minutes to any creature within 60 feet of the symbol. So, while Action Surge is gross, you are correct, other classes have more gross things they can do.
But you only get Action Surge once per short rest - so it is a very brief burst of damage (much less than rogue sneak attack?)
SagaTympana, within my small group of three GMs, I was the one who read the rule and said that the way the rule reads it is a full normal action the fighter gets with Action Surge, thus they get their multi-attacks. Both of the other GMs did not like that, thought it was over powered, and said it should only be a single attack like Bonus Action gives. When I thought about what damage my 14th level fighter could do with 3 normal attacks, bonus attack, and action surge attacks, I agreed, that would be gross.
GMs always rule and can change or interpret the rules as they choose.
But, your point is great and perfectly on the point. High level spell casters can do huge amounts of damage and taking that into account, action surge is not really that gross. A Death symbol can do 10d10 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful save within 120 diameter circle every melee for 10 minutes to any creature within 60 feet of the symbol. So, while Action Surge is gross, you are correct, other classes have more gross things they can do.
But you only get Action Surge once per short rest - so it is a very brief burst of damage (much less than rogue sneak attack?)
I'm not sure the point of bringing in a rogue as reference here. The average damage from a level 11 rogue with sneak attack on one attack is comparable to a level 11 fighter with 3 regular attacks.
Level 11 fighter 3 x (d10+5) = 31.5 avg damage (polearm or 2h longsword and 20 stat) 3 x(2d6+5) = 36 (greatsword and 20 stat)
Action surge allows a fighter to double that output for one turn, once/short rest. There is no way that Action surge for a fighter is OP. The DMs who are arguing against it just haven't played enough 5e or haven't seen crits by rogues or paladins with sneak attack and smite - which they can do FAR more often than once/short rest and do a lot more damage than action surge.
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P.S. On the other hand, Action surge on a multi-classed evoker wizard is an impressive option for doing a lot of damage in one turn (I'm still not saying it is OP since there are very few things I would consider in 5e to be "overpowered"). 2 x fireball = 16d6 damage to multiple targets. 2 x cone of cold is 16d8 .. 2x disintegrate is impressive. There are a lot of spells where 2x the spell or multiple spells can be extremely impressive - luckily it is limited by being able to concentrate on only one spell at a time or there would be several more impressive combinations.
Yea that won't fly in a rules forum. Doesn't matter if it would be a good idea or not, it still has absolutely no validity here.
Granted. Sorry for the interruption.
SagaTympana, within my small group of three GMs, I was the one who read the rule and said that the way the rule reads it is a full normal action the fighter gets with Action Surge, thus they get their multi-attacks. Both of the other GMs did not like that, thought it was over powered, and said it should only be a single attack like Bonus Action gives. When I thought about what damage my 14th level fighter could do with 3 normal attacks, bonus attack, and action surge attacks, I agreed, that would be gross.
GMs always rule and can change or interpret the rules as they choose.
But, your point is great and perfectly on the point. High level spell casters can do huge amounts of damage and taking that into account, action surge is not really that gross. A Death symbol can do 10d10 necrotic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful save within 120 diameter circle every melee for 10 minutes to any creature within 60 feet of the symbol. So, while Action Surge is gross, you are correct, other classes have more gross things they can do.
But you only get Action Surge once per short rest - so it is a very brief burst of damage (much less than rogue sneak attack?)
I'm not sure the point of bringing in a rogue as reference here. The average damage from a level 11 rogue with sneak attack on one attack is comparable to a level 11 fighter with 3 regular attacks.
Level 11 rogue sneak attack d8 + 6d6 +5 = 30.5 avg damage (assuming rapier and 20 dex)
Level 11 fighter 3 x (d10+5) = 31.5 avg damage (polearm or 2h longsword and 20 stat) 3 x(2d6+5) = 36 (greatsword and 20 stat)
Action surge allows a fighter to double that output for one turn, once/short rest. There is no way that Action surge for a fighter is OP. The DMs who are arguing against it just haven't played enough 5e or haven't seen crits by rogues or paladins with sneak attack and smite - which they can do FAR more often than once/short rest and do a lot more damage than action surge.
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P.S. On the other hand, Action surge on a multi-classed evoker wizard is an impressive option for doing a lot of damage in one turn (I'm still not saying it is OP since there are very few things I would consider in 5e to be "overpowered"). 2 x fireball = 16d6 damage to multiple targets. 2 x cone of cold is 16d8 .. 2x disintegrate is impressive. There are a lot of spells where 2x the spell or multiple spells can be extremely impressive - luckily it is limited by being able to concentrate on only one spell at a time or there would be several more impressive combinations.