Can a changeling impersonate someone who is missing a limb?
Can they make one of there limbs shrink to seem like it's missing.
Currently making a Changeling Artificer (Armorer) and was thinking that with the power armor I could shrink the changelings limbs so that a power armor arm could be destroyed without the changeling losing a limb.
Changelings can't change their number of limbs (I think the playtest version of the race specifically said this).
"You can’t duplicate the appearance of a creature you’ve never seen, and you must adopt a form that has the same basic arrangement of limbs that you have."
The question is whether duplicating a form that does have the same basic arrangement of limbs (but lost one) is possible. That seems like a DM decision to me...
If the form originally had the same limb arrangement but has lost a limb, then it very explicitly does not have the same basic arrangement of limbs that you have. That’s not a DM decision, that’s just exactly what the text says.
If the form originally had the same limb arrangement but has lost a limb, then it very explicitly does not have the same basic arrangement of limbs that you have. That’s not a DM decision, that’s just exactly what the text says.
I do not see that follows as clearly as you seem to think. It ignores the word 'basic.' The copied is not from any naturally 3 limbed race. They are still 'naturally' a bipedal humanoid, with similar limb placement. They have just subsequent to birth lost a limb.
The shapeshifting feature doesn’t care at all about what’s “natural.” All it says is that the form you adopt must have the same basic arrangement of limbs. Two arms, two legs, and a head is not basically the same thing as one arm, two legs, and a head. The feature text is really not ambiguous here. If the changeling has lost a limb, the limb is missing in every form they take. If they haven’t lost a limb, every form they take has all the limbs the changeling normally has.
Why don't we try looking at it the other way around to see if it should be allowed.
Does a 1 armed changeling regrow it's lost arm when it copies someone? Will a legless changeling regrow both legs when it copies someone?
I say no. The changeling can change their coloration, hair length, sex, height, and weight, but they can't change their number, arrangement, or function of their limbs, because nothing in the feature says they can or even hints at it.
Why only limbs? If the changeling is injured in some other way, are the injuries visible on all forms too? Is a changeling prohibited from changing into the form of someone whose legs are paralyzed? i.e. there but non-functional? What if they are using a prosthetic limb?
It isn't. Yes. No, but the changeling will still be able to walk. Making a limb look prosthetic is within the changelings ability (they can turn into warforged after all).
There is not any difference between “same” and “identical,” and the text uses the word “same.” When it says “basic arrangement,” it means the number, location, and purpose of the limbs. There’s obviously some flexibility in the details (proportion, appearance, etc.), but the basic arrangement must be the same. So onto your questions:
Why only limbs? Because the feature text explicitly says limbs.
If the changeling is injured in some other way, are the injuries visible on all forms too? Depends on the injury. I don’t see any problem with using Shapeshifting to hide minor cuts, but the feature cannot heal you, so I’d say there’s no way to shapeshift out of a massive hole in your chest, for example.
Is a changeling prohibited from changing into the form of someone whose legs are paralyzed? If that person has the same basic arrangement of limbs that the changeling does, then obviously no. This is a bit of a non-sequitur, I’m not sure what paralysis has to do with anything.
What if they are using a prosthetic limb? Also feels like something of a non-sequitur. Shapeshifting can’t change equipment or clothing.
Aside from your question about hiding wounds, which does involve a bit of DM discretion, all these questions have very clear answers within the text of the feature.
That "basic arrangement" as a requirement suggests to me that a Changeling simply cannot simulate a person without the same number of limbs.
If a Changeling has all limbs but it wanting to simulate a person with no arm and not artificial arm replacement, what's the Changeling supposed to use in place of that missing part? Can a Changeling mix-and-match appearances? If so, a Changeling could simply simulate an artificial arm if the Changeling has seen one, but I don't know if a Changeling can mashup appearances. It would side-step the whole "basic arrangement" requirement.
If the source was seen with an artificial limb, I see it plausible to become a copy with the artificial limb as a whole without the need to mashup different appearances. The basic arrangement matches.
If a Changeling is missing a limb and wants to simulate someone who has all limbs, how does that work? Simulating an injury that was not witnessed goes back to the question of mix-and-match appearances. It defies the "basic arrangement" requirement.
EDIT: What if a Changeling missing a limb wants to copy a person wearing an artificial limb on the same limb? Does the Changeling ability know where to stop copying?
Does an artificial limb count as attire/weapon/armor?
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
There is not any difference between “same” and “identical,” and the text uses the word “same.” When it says “basic arrangement,” it means the number, location, and purpose of the limbs. There’s obviously some flexibility in the details (proportion, appearance, etc.), but the basic arrangement must be the same. So onto your questions:
What if they are using a prosthetic limb? Also feels like something of a non-sequitur. Shapeshifting can’t change equipment or clothing.
Aside from your question about hiding wounds, which does involve a bit of DM discretion, all these questions have very clear answers within the text of the feature.
Do you have anything backing that definition of basic arrangement? Or is that just your personal opinion? If the latter, we can simply agree to disagree on it, on the basis of having differing opinions.
A prosthetic is not necessarily just 'equipment or clothing.' It certainly isn't anything normally considered clothing. If it is designed not to be removable, is it still mere 'equipment?' How exactly does it differ from if a regeneration spell is used and the person grows back a biological leg? Or what happens if (via some alchemical or necromantic process) the prosthetic is biological? If someone has replaced their hand with the Hand of Vecna, are they immune to being mimicked by changelings?
I’m really not interested in a semantic discussion of the precise definition of “basic,” but I do 100% hold the position that two arms, two legs, and a head is not the same basic arrangement as one arm, two legs, and a head (without loss of generality). Further, I assert that this is prima facie true. I’m laying the burden of proof on you to assert that two arms is basically the same as one arm, because that position is the greater stretch by far.
To address your second paragraph, I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying a bit (I was never really clear about this because I didn’t realize it was an issue, so that’s on me). No hypothetical amputee here is “immune to being mimicked.” If I, a changeling, see someone who’s lost an arm, I can totally still mimic them. I’m just going to have both my arms, which would give away the ruse to anyone who knows the target is missing an arm. As others have mentioned, it’s reasonable to allow a changeling to make a limb look like a prosthesis, within reason.
Currently making a Changeling Artificer (Armorer) and was thinking that with the power armor I could shrink the changelings limbs so that a power armor arm could be destroyed without the changeling losing a limb.
There is one important aspect of this that others have not mentioned. Even if you could reduce a limb in that manner, how would you know when to do so and which limb? In what manner of campaign is the party losing so many limbs (or any limbs at all) so that this would ever be an issue?
I was looking at the power armor feature of Armorers, and thought it would be cool to be able to temporarily shrink your arm, then use the power armor arm to reach into a vat of acid, or a level with an amputation trap.
So from all this I gather that changelings can't change their skeletal structure (except for minor changes in bone size) So amputees are almost immune from being effectively copied, unless the changeling is willing to lop off a limb, then have it regrown or re-attatched after.
If the form originally had the same limb arrangement but has lost a limb, then it very explicitly does not have the same basic arrangement of limbs that you have. That’s not a DM decision, that’s just exactly what the text says.
I do not see that follows as clearly as you seem to think. It ignores the word 'basic.' The copied is not from any naturally 3 limbed race. They are still 'naturally' a bipedal humanoid, with similar limb placement. They have just subsequent to birth lost a limb.
The shapeshifting feature doesn’t care at all about what’s “natural.” All it says is that the form you adopt must have the same basic arrangement of limbs. Two arms, two legs, and a head is not basically the same thing as one arm, two legs, and a head. The feature text is really not ambiguous here. If the changeling has lost a limb, the limb is missing in every form they take. If they haven’t lost a limb, every form they take has all the limbs the changeling normally has.
Well as a matter of technicality an amputee generally has the same number of limbs as everyone else. The limb just isn't complete.
Instead of dancing through all the hoops trying to find a way to make a changeling loose its limbs then gain them back and instead look for a way for that changeling to regrow or reattach that same limb.
The Op did ask for the ability to save a limb if they lost one. "Currently making a Changeling Artificer (Armorer) and was thinking that with the power armor I could shrink the changelings limbs so that a power armor arm could be destroyed without the changeling losing a limb."
He essentially wants a human sized mech suit.
Build the armor large sized and change into a tiny creature to drive it from inside the chest area.
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Can a changeling impersonate someone who is missing a limb?
Can they make one of there limbs shrink to seem like it's missing.
Currently making a Changeling Artificer (Armorer) and was thinking that with the power armor I could shrink the changelings limbs so that a power armor arm could be destroyed without the changeling losing a limb.
Changelings can't change their number of limbs (I think the playtest version of the race specifically said this).
Ultimately, all rule questions are up to DM.
Though if your specific reasoning to wanting this ruling is to avoid a potential penalty of a feature, then that should probably be an automatic no.
If the form originally had the same limb arrangement but has lost a limb, then it very explicitly does not have the same basic arrangement of limbs that you have. That’s not a DM decision, that’s just exactly what the text says.
The shapeshifting feature doesn’t care at all about what’s “natural.” All it says is that the form you adopt must have the same basic arrangement of limbs. Two arms, two legs, and a head is not basically the same thing as one arm, two legs, and a head. The feature text is really not ambiguous here. If the changeling has lost a limb, the limb is missing in every form they take. If they haven’t lost a limb, every form they take has all the limbs the changeling normally has.
Why don't we try looking at it the other way around to see if it should be allowed.
Does a 1 armed changeling regrow it's lost arm when it copies someone? Will a legless changeling regrow both legs when it copies someone?
I say no. The changeling can change their coloration, hair length, sex, height, and weight, but they can't change their number, arrangement, or function of their limbs, because nothing in the feature says they can or even hints at it.
It isn't. Yes. No, but the changeling will still be able to walk. Making a limb look prosthetic is within the changelings ability (they can turn into warforged after all).
There is not any difference between “same” and “identical,” and the text uses the word “same.” When it says “basic arrangement,” it means the number, location, and purpose of the limbs. There’s obviously some flexibility in the details (proportion, appearance, etc.), but the basic arrangement must be the same. So onto your questions:
Why only limbs? Because the feature text explicitly says limbs.
If the changeling is injured in some other way, are the injuries visible on all forms too? Depends on the injury. I don’t see any problem with using Shapeshifting to hide minor cuts, but the feature cannot heal you, so I’d say there’s no way to shapeshift out of a massive hole in your chest, for example.
Is a changeling prohibited from changing into the form of someone whose legs are paralyzed? If that person has the same basic arrangement of limbs that the changeling does, then obviously no. This is a bit of a non-sequitur, I’m not sure what paralysis has to do with anything.
What if they are using a prosthetic limb? Also feels like something of a non-sequitur. Shapeshifting can’t change equipment or clothing.
Aside from your question about hiding wounds, which does involve a bit of DM discretion, all these questions have very clear answers within the text of the feature.
That "basic arrangement" as a requirement suggests to me that a Changeling simply cannot simulate a person without the same number of limbs.
If a Changeling has all limbs but it wanting to simulate a person with no arm and not artificial arm replacement, what's the Changeling supposed to use in place of that missing part? Can a Changeling mix-and-match appearances? If so, a Changeling could simply simulate an artificial arm if the Changeling has seen one, but I don't know if a Changeling can mashup appearances. It would side-step the whole "basic arrangement" requirement.
If the source was seen with an artificial limb, I see it plausible to become a copy with the artificial limb as a whole without the need to mashup different appearances. The basic arrangement matches.
If a Changeling is missing a limb and wants to simulate someone who has all limbs, how does that work? Simulating an injury that was not witnessed goes back to the question of mix-and-match appearances. It defies the "basic arrangement" requirement.
EDIT: What if a Changeling missing a limb wants to copy a person wearing an artificial limb on the same limb? Does the Changeling ability know where to stop copying?
Does an artificial limb count as attire/weapon/armor?
I have more questions than answers.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I’m really not interested in a semantic discussion of the precise definition of “basic,” but I do 100% hold the position that two arms, two legs, and a head is not the same basic arrangement as one arm, two legs, and a head (without loss of generality). Further, I assert that this is prima facie true. I’m laying the burden of proof on you to assert that two arms is basically the same as one arm, because that position is the greater stretch by far.
To address your second paragraph, I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying a bit (I was never really clear about this because I didn’t realize it was an issue, so that’s on me). No hypothetical amputee here is “immune to being mimicked.” If I, a changeling, see someone who’s lost an arm, I can totally still mimic them. I’m just going to have both my arms, which would give away the ruse to anyone who knows the target is missing an arm. As others have mentioned, it’s reasonable to allow a changeling to make a limb look like a prosthesis, within reason.
I was looking at the power armor feature of Armorers, and thought it would be cool to be able to temporarily shrink your arm, then use the power armor arm to reach into a vat of acid, or a level with an amputation trap.
So from all this I gather that changelings can't change their skeletal structure (except for minor changes in bone size) So amputees are almost immune from being effectively copied, unless the changeling is willing to lop off a limb, then have it regrown or re-attatched after.
It says I can't increase or regrow a limb but it doesn't say I can't decrease the amount of limbs...
Well as a matter of technicality an amputee generally has the same number of limbs as everyone else. The limb just isn't complete.
Instead of dancing through all the hoops trying to find a way to make a changeling loose its limbs then gain them back and instead look for a way for that changeling to regrow or reattach that same limb.
The Op did ask for the ability to save a limb if they lost one.
"Currently making a Changeling Artificer (Armorer) and was thinking that with the power armor I could shrink the changelings limbs so that a power armor arm could be destroyed without the changeling losing a limb."
He essentially wants a human sized mech suit.
Build the armor large sized and change into a tiny creature to drive it from inside the chest area.