I think the extra attack is just another attack you can make if you take the attack action...
hence you have to take the attack action to get the 2nd attack from extra attack.
If you use your action to cast a cantrip, or do anything else but attack... then you haven't taken the attack action and therefore don't get the 2nd attack.
Extra attack requires the Attack action. Cantrips use the Cast a Spell action. They don’t work together unless a gesture explicitly allows it, which none currently do.
Unfortunately you cannot. The only way to do something similar is through the level 7 ability of Fighter Eldritch Knight called War Magic.
This ability allows you to attack with a bonus action when you cast a spell with your main action. So you can do like Booming Blade + bonus action attack, or even Hold Person + bonus action attack.
When have the ability to make an "Extra Attack" can i use a cantrip as Aktion and make an Weapon attack as "Extra Aktion" ?
No, Extra Attack says "Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
This doesn't mean you take two actions. A spell may allow you to make a weapon attack as part of it but that is part of the spell, not an Attack Action
no you can't use the extra attack to use a cantrip. to clarify the extra attack feature says " you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn." this means you have to use your action to make attacks, to cast a spell you need to use your full action to cast said spell (even if that spell is something like booming blade, it still takes your full action to do that)
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D&D is not a video game, you don't need a tank or a healer, for thar matter you can turn pretty much any class into a frontliner, heavy damage dealer or healer with the right feats and items.
Unfortunately you cannot. The only way to do something similar is through the level 7 ability of Fighter Eldritch Knight called War Magic.
This ability allows you to attack with a bonus action when you cast a spell with your main action. So you can do like Booming Blade + bonus action attack, or even Hold Person + bonus action attack.
Apparently, if the leaks are to be believed, the new Bladesinger version from Tasha's Couldron will be able to cast a cantrip during the extra attack :)
Apparently, if the leaks are to be believed, the new Bladesinger version from Tasha's Couldron will be able to cast a cantrip during the extra attack :)
They'll have to be careful how they word that then. The Eldritch Knight and Blood Hunter (Profane Soul) both provide "when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action." If Bladesinger hands out the ability to make two attacks as part of the Attack Action with one (or more???!!!) of them being a spell attack cantrip, then Bladesinger/EKs will start popping up doing two SCAGtrips + other melee attacks, with even less resource/feat investment than was previously possible before the upcoming BB nerf.
Ya know... no, that wouldn't work. Both features would combine to just provide a bonus weapon attack after the Bladesinger's Cantrip+Weapon Attack attack action. It'll be fine (or, Bladesinger will be worded like EK's).
Apparently, if the leaks are to be believed, the new Bladesinger version from Tasha's Couldron will be able to cast a cantrip during the extra attack :)
They'll have to be careful how they word that then. The Eldritch Knight and Blood Hunter (Profane Soul) both provide "when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action." If Bladesinger hands out the ability to make two attacks as part of the Attack Action with one (or more???!!!) of them being a spell attack cantrip, then Bladesinger/EKs will start popping up doing two SCAGtrips + other melee attacks, with even less resource/feat investment than was previously possible before the upcoming BB nerf.
I think we are safe because from what I heard it's just something like "Extra Attack: from 6th level you can attack twice when you make an attack action. You can cast a cantrip instead of 2nd attack" so you don't really cast a cantrip as an action but as a part of extra attack.
They will still be able to attack+booming blade though which is kinda nice (= 2x melee attacks + extra die from BB).
I dunno, I think that would fit within the bounds of "using your action to cast a cantrip," the Fighter feature doesn't specify "use the Cast a Spell action to cast a cantrip" after all. Whatever the wording, just hope it's worded in such a way to make clear what the interactions are intended to be :p
I dunno, I think that would fit within the bounds of "using your action to cast a cantrip," the Fighter feature doesn't specify "use the Cast a Spell action to cast a cantrip" after all. Whatever the wording, just hope it's worded in such a way to make clear what the interactions are intended to be :p
I guess.
But...even if - I am tempted to say "so what?". The build in both cases goes online at 13th level (requires Bladesinger 6/Eldritch Knight 7) and it's debatable whether at this point it's more or less powerful than a pure 13th level Bladesinger. We will see once it comes online :)
I dunno, I think that would fit within the bounds of "using your action to cast a cantrip," the Fighter feature doesn't specify "use the Cast a Spell action to cast a cantrip" after all. Whatever the wording, just hope it's worded in such a way to make clear what the interactions are intended to be :p
in the rulebook, chapter 9: combat, page 192 under "actions in combat" it does state that the attack action and the cast a spell actions are two different things
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D&D is not a video game, you don't need a tank or a healer, for thar matter you can turn pretty much any class into a frontliner, heavy damage dealer or healer with the right feats and items.
When have the ability to make an "Extra Attack" can i use a cantrip as Aktion and make an Weapon attack as "Extra Aktion" ?
You're making a very common mistake when it comes to action economy. Don't feel bad, lots of people do it. The wording of the Extra Attack feature for Fighters is as follows:
"Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class."
Other classes get Extra Attack as well, but they don't include options for a 3rd and 4th attack, and I think one or more classes/subclasses get it at Level 6 instead of 5, I'm not sure.
But the key thing is, there's "an attack", and then there's the "Attack" action. On your turn you choose which action to take. It could be Attack, Dodge, Disengage, etc. IF you take the Attack action, you get to make an attack against something. If you have Extra Attack, that means WHEN you take the Attack action on your turn, you get to make more than one attack. Using a cantrip requires taking the Cast A Spell action, not the Attack action. Even if the cantrip involves making an attack, your Extra Attack feature does not trigger. Two other things to keep in mind. Extra Attack features do not stack. You'll note it says "you can attack twice", not "you can make an additional attack" or something to that effect. If you are a 10th-level character with 5 in Fighter and 5 in Paladin for example, you will get the Extra Attack feature twice. BUT you will still only be able to attack twice, not three times. Also, the "on your turn" part of the wording means just that. If on another creature's turn it moves out of your reach and you make an Attack Of Opportunity, you only get to make a single attack.
But...even if - I am tempted to say "so what?". The build in both cases goes online at 13th level (requires Bladesinger 6/Eldritch Knight 7) and it's debatable whether at this point it's more or less powerful than a pure 13th level Bladesinger. We will see once it comes online :)
But speculation is fun!
Assuming that nothing else in Bladesinger changes other than something like what you suggested, that says "starting at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. You may replace one attack in this action with a spell attack cantrip."
Makes the pure Bladesinger more fun and adds about 5-20 damage per round for them, which is nice because currently they don't do much other than turtle.
Makes a Bladesinger 6/Eldritch Knight 14 attack twice more in a round than they currently do when casting a SCAGtrip, which is possibly like... 20-30ish damage per hit, pretty big DPR increase for them?
Assuming that the Bladesinger change is worded in a way to closely mirror the EK feature, and reads: "Starting at 6th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Or, if you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action."
Makes the pure Bladesinger more fun as above, but is slightly more restrictive, since it eliminates one's ability to perform a Bonus Action spell like Misty Step.
Doesn't make a Bladesinger splash any more attractive to the EK than it already was, since it matches the EK feature they already have.
Erodes the attractiveness of EK for several other builds that take it to 7 for that feature, since Bladesinger will now provide the same feature at 6, but with the added benefit of much better spell progression, and a much better intro ability into the subclass.
I think that option 2 will probably be what we end up with, but I'd very much prefer option 1. Both help the Bladesinger a lot, but EK currently is an undervalued choice for melee caster builds compared to warlock shennanigans, and I think the potential for bumping its DPR is a good thing.
[NEW] Extra Attack (p. 142). The following text has been added after the first sentence: “Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks.”
I guess you got what you wanted with the extra bonus that it doesn't have to be "spell attack" cantrip :)
Had they not nerfed BB and GFB to be untwinbable, a Bladesinger 6/EK 6/Sorcerer 3+ would have been able to get four attacks per attack action+bonus with this. Ah well :/
[NEW] Extra Attack (p. 142). The following text has been added after the first sentence: “Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks.”
I guess you got what you wanted with the extra bonus that it doesn't have to be "spell attack" cantrip :)
I hope that there is clarifying text there (or that the spell list is altered) as there is no indication of what types of cantrips can be cast (I would assume action, but what about bonus action/longer time castings). It’s easy for a DM to rule those out, but the ambiguity of this language is going to give a headache to the Bladesinger/Artificer combo who says this allows him to cast Mending every round on his Steel Defender
Hallo,
new to d&d so this is maybe a noob question.
When have the ability to make an "Extra Attack" can i use a cantrip as Aktion and make an Weapon attack as "Extra Aktion" ?
I think the extra attack is just another attack you can make if you take the attack action...
hence you have to take the attack action to get the 2nd attack from extra attack.
If you use your action to cast a cantrip, or do anything else but attack... then you haven't taken the attack action and therefore don't get the 2nd attack.
Hope that helps.
Extra attack requires the Attack action. Cantrips use the Cast a Spell action. They don’t work together unless a gesture explicitly allows it, which none currently do.
Unfortunately you cannot. The only way to do something similar is through the level 7 ability of Fighter Eldritch Knight called War Magic.
This ability allows you to attack with a bonus action when you cast a spell with your main action. So you can do like Booming Blade + bonus action attack, or even Hold Person + bonus action attack.
No, Extra Attack says "Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
This doesn't mean you take two actions. A spell may allow you to make a weapon attack as part of it but that is part of the spell, not an Attack Action
Thanks for fast response
no you can't use the extra attack to use a cantrip.
to clarify the extra attack feature says " you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn." this means you have to use your action to make attacks, to cast a spell you need to use your full action to cast said spell (even if that spell is something like booming blade, it still takes your full action to do that)
D&D is not a video game, you don't need a tank or a healer, for thar matter you can turn pretty much any class into a frontliner, heavy damage dealer or healer with the right feats and items.
Apparently, if the leaks are to be believed, the new Bladesinger version from Tasha's Couldron will be able to cast a cantrip during the extra attack :)
They'll have to be careful how they word that then. The Eldritch Knight and Blood Hunter (Profane Soul) both provide "when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action." If Bladesinger hands out the ability to make two attacks as part of the Attack Action with one (or more???!!!) of them being a spell attack cantrip, then Bladesinger/EKs will start popping up doing two SCAGtrips + other melee attacks, with even less resource/feat investment than was previously possible before the upcoming BB nerf.Ya know... no, that wouldn't work. Both features would combine to just provide a bonus weapon attack after the Bladesinger's Cantrip+Weapon Attack attack action. It'll be fine (or, Bladesinger will be worded like EK's).
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I think we are safe because from what I heard it's just something like "Extra Attack: from 6th level you can attack twice when you make an attack action. You can cast a cantrip instead of 2nd attack" so you don't really cast a cantrip as an action but as a part of extra attack.
They will still be able to attack+booming blade though which is kinda nice (= 2x melee attacks + extra die from BB).
I dunno, I think that would fit within the bounds of "using your action to cast a cantrip," the Fighter feature doesn't specify "use the Cast a Spell action to cast a cantrip" after all. Whatever the wording, just hope it's worded in such a way to make clear what the interactions are intended to be :p
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I guess.
But...even if - I am tempted to say "so what?". The build in both cases goes online at 13th level (requires Bladesinger 6/Eldritch Knight 7) and it's debatable whether at this point it's more or less powerful than a pure 13th level Bladesinger. We will see once it comes online :)
in the rulebook, chapter 9: combat, page 192 under "actions in combat" it does state that the attack action and the cast a spell actions are two different things
D&D is not a video game, you don't need a tank or a healer, for thar matter you can turn pretty much any class into a frontliner, heavy damage dealer or healer with the right feats and items.
You're making a very common mistake when it comes to action economy. Don't feel bad, lots of people do it. The wording of the Extra Attack feature for Fighters is as follows:
"Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class."
Other classes get Extra Attack as well, but they don't include options for a 3rd and 4th attack, and I think one or more classes/subclasses get it at Level 6 instead of 5, I'm not sure.
But the key thing is, there's "an attack", and then there's the "Attack" action. On your turn you choose which action to take. It could be Attack, Dodge, Disengage, etc. IF you take the Attack action, you get to make an attack against something. If you have Extra Attack, that means WHEN you take the Attack action on your turn, you get to make more than one attack. Using a cantrip requires taking the Cast A Spell action, not the Attack action. Even if the cantrip involves making an attack, your Extra Attack feature does not trigger. Two other things to keep in mind. Extra Attack features do not stack. You'll note it says "you can attack twice", not "you can make an additional attack" or something to that effect. If you are a 10th-level character with 5 in Fighter and 5 in Paladin for example, you will get the Extra Attack feature twice. BUT you will still only be able to attack twice, not three times. Also, the "on your turn" part of the wording means just that. If on another creature's turn it moves out of your reach and you make an Attack Of Opportunity, you only get to make a single attack.
But speculation is fun!
I think that option 2 will probably be what we end up with, but I'd very much prefer option 1. Both help the Bladesinger a lot, but EK currently is an undervalued choice for melee caster builds compared to warlock shennanigans, and I think the potential for bumping its DPR is a good thing.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Well, speculation is over ;-)
I guess you got what you wanted with the extra bonus that it doesn't have to be "spell attack" cantrip :)
Had they not nerfed BB and GFB to be untwinbable, a Bladesinger 6/EK 6/Sorcerer 3+ would have been able to get four attacks per attack action+bonus with this. Ah well :/
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I hope that there is clarifying text there (or that the spell list is altered) as there is no indication of what types of cantrips can be cast (I would assume action, but what about bonus action/longer time castings). It’s easy for a DM to rule those out, but the ambiguity of this language is going to give a headache to the Bladesinger/Artificer combo who says this allows him to cast Mending every round on his Steel Defender
You can take the attack action and get your extra attacks and also cast a cantrip if it is a bonus action cantrip.
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This is just for Bladesingers though, right?
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