Versatility is the point of wizard. Sorcers are better at a limited area (finally starting to address with TCoE) and get meta magics. Clerics, druids and paladin have hp, armor, and weapons (and more depending on class).
You also have to think about most of the garbage spells and ones that are generally limited to villians are on the wizard list: crown of madness, ray of enfeeblement, etc. And the spells that are used to justify a magic world like continual flame and teleportation circle.
The quill is only half the issue. Order of Scribe also gets the book which takes care of their 'material components' portion of the equation.
As for the 35k gold, in AL it really is meaningless with the exception of plate mail for fighter/paladin and the material cost of some spells (hero's feast, the new summons, leomund's secret chest.). Every other class, once they hit 5th level has nothing to spend gold on except costly material components or potions of healing. Wizards are the only class exception.
I wouldn't mind if they flat out banned the 'problem' spells (completely another discussion), said ignore material cost on spells and then set a limit on the type of armor allow per tier.
The quill is only half the issue. Order of Scribe also gets the book which takes care of their 'material components' portion of the equation.
That isn't how that works though. Every other subclass of wizard can use wands and still have to pay to add spells to their book. Using a focus to cast spells you know and using materials to experiment with spells you don't know are separate mechanics.
The quill reduces time, not cost. That isn't even an opinion. That is what the effect says it is. It doesn't have any effects it doesn't say it has.
- To copy a new spell, it still costs the same amount.
- When copying a new spell, it only takes 2 mins per spell level (along with the 50g). This means copying and being able to use the spell right after copying it.
Personally, I think it’s important not just to remember the written rules and interpretation, but also intention. What’s the point of copying spells in minutes? I personally think that this massive time reduction is to allow a character to copy spells on the fly.
For example: Imagine your party is exploring a dungeon, and you come across a spell scroll. Instead of stuffing it in your bag, when your party takes their next short rest (Or whenever you’re not pressured by time), copy it over to your book. Then you can use that spell in the future and not waste a scroll casting. Or perhaps you can wait, and see if the scroll becomes necessary later on in the dungeon.
I suppose my point is that the purpose (RAI (Read as Intended)) of this feature is to allow the Wizard to gain a rather large spellbook and to add to it whilst adventuring.
To that end, as a DM, I’d remove the cost. Where are you even going to spend that cash in a dungeon?
But... to each their own. RAW the price is the same, but personally I believe that the RAI removes it entirely.
So in that sense what you're saying is that instead of having to take 2 hours to copy a 1st level spell, you can take 2 mins to copy it and then use 2 hours and 50g learn it later on when you have ample time. Would this be right?
So in that sense what you're saying is that instead of having to take 2 hours to copy a 1st level spell, you can take 2 mins to copy it and then use 2 hours and 50g learn it later on when you have ample time. Would this be right?
By definition, a wizard knows all spells in their spellbook. I'm not sure what you mean by "learn", but there are no other steps - a wizard can prepare any spell in their spellbook when they prepare, and they know a spell as soon as it's in their spellbook.
Scribes cuts the time cost to copy from 2 hours per spell level to 2 minutes per spell level. How it impacts the monetary cost of 50 gp per spell level is impossible to determine, as the rules say the monetary cost is ink + components, but a spell can easily have components that cost more than spell level * 50 in gp. A reasonable interpretation might be that Scribes wizards omit the monetary cost entirely for spells without consumed M components that cost money and pay the full cost for spells that have them, but ultimately your DM just has to guess at RAI.
In short, the purpose of the wizardly quill is to allow the Wizard to learn a large amount of spells. Wizards already have the biggest spell list in the game, but this feature takes it to the max by reducing the time needed to scribe/copy spells. But what's the difference between 2 minutes and 2 hours if they both occur during downtime? I feel that the intention is to remove the cost entirely, to allow for spell scribing on the fly, such as in a dungeon. Again, to each their own. As a DM, it's your choice to follow the RAW or the RAI. But in my opinion, the RAI supersedes the RAW every time.
- To copy a new spell, it still costs the same amount.
- When copying a new spell, it only takes 2 mins per spell level (along with the 50g). This means copying and being able to use the spell right after copying it.
Is this right?
You still need to prepare it before you can cast it, which will take a long rest.
The scribe wizard does have other features that can benefit immediately.
I think that the description provides us with the answer but it’s not apparent, clearly. It suggests that you are using the cost for material components AND inks. The class skill says INKS are free and count as Magic inks for those purpose, because it states clearly that it produces it’s own ink. My ruling would be that the 50gp material costs only applies to spells with a material requirement and that spells with only somatic or verbal components are no cost to copy. It is a minor advantage that honors the RAW imho and isn’t out of balance at all. All spell copying for this subclass could be free and it would still not be super unbalanced even in the most restrictive campaign settings.Yes the cost adds up over time as you level, but I see this class ability as specifically designed for the purpose of making them better at scribing and preserving knowledge. It only gives more variety to the wizard since spells are still limited to what can be cast with slots, prepared spell limits, and the cost of making scrolls in time and gold. It is essentially just more tools in the tool box. The only question is whether your DM wants to over-ride the RAW to make the acquisition of spells more difficult to suit their setting. That’s between you and the DM.
The general rule is: Copying a Spell into the Book: When you find a Wizard spell of 1st Level or higher, you can add it to your Spellbook if it is of a Spell Level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
Copying that spell into your Spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the Wizard who wrote it. You must practice the spell until you understand the Sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your Spellbook using your own notation.
For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material Components you expend as you experiment with the spell to Master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it. Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other Spells.
The specific Rule of Scribe is: The time you must spend to copy a spell into your spell book equals 2 minutes per spell level if you use the quill for the transcription.
So basically you just need to spend time to copy it. There is no experimenting, no inks, no material components, nada. Just time.
I feel that the intention is to remove the cost entirely, to allow for spell scribing on the fly, such as in a dungeon.
Hi friends! I know this thread has mostly ended, but since I recently started playing an Order of Scribes wizard, I started searching for feedback on how to interpret the Wizardly Quill. I think the debate has been officially resolved that the feature is in fact to eliminate both cost and time. See the first bullet point under Order of Scribes features:
They gain two level 2 abilities. The first of these, Wizardly Quill, grants the wizard a magical quill that doesn’t require ink and can copy down spells at 2 minutes per spell level. Normally, wizards must spend a whopping 2 hours per level copying a spell, which forces this activity to be done in the downtime before or after a long rest. The Order of Scribes wizard faces no such problem, and could potentially scribble down the most potent magics from an enemy archmage’s stash in the middle of a dungeon crawl while the rest of the party stays alert.
Bear in mind Jeremy Blum is not a rules authority, he's just a guy with an opinion, like anyone else.
Or, well, he was when that post was made. Now that DDB employees are WOTC employees, anything they say in an official capacity is exactly as canonical as any other rules source.
Bear in mind Jeremy Blum is not a rules authority, he's just a guy with an opinion, like anyone else.
Or, well, he was when that post was made. Now that DDB employees are WOTC employees, anything they say in an official capacity is exactly as canonical as any other rules source.
... which is to say not at all.
From the Sage Advice Compendium
"The public statements of the D&D team, or anyone elseat Wizards of the Coast, are not official rulings; they areadvice. The tweets of Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford), the game’s principal rules designer, are sometimes apreview of rulings that appear here."
The only "canonical" rules are those found in the rule books and the rulings in the Sage Advice Compendium ... anything else is not official nor canonical.
To the poster above that :) ... nothing in the lines you cited gives any indication that the wizard doesn't have to spend gold on some part of the process to scribe the spells. Maybe the quill needs to be fed gold coins to function when scribing something magical? :) ... in the end, it is up to how your DM decides to run it but the only things the quill itself explicitly provide are the ink and the ability to scribe spells much much faster - it makes no mention regarding costs.
Personally I think the cost for new spells would be reduced by 10 gp.
Reasoning for this is the cost of ink is 10 gp for one. Then if you look at the Scribes other feature, "If necessary, you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you’re attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook’s consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells. If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages." Going by the copying over spells to a new spell book, the cost is 10 gp and 1 hour. So a straightforward reasoning is 10 gp of the cost of a new spell is ink costs, and if the quill doesn't need ink, the new cost would be 40 gp for a new spell.
Again this is a straightforward reasoning not a indepth reasoning, so do with it what you will.
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Versatility is the point of wizard. Sorcers are better at a limited area (finally starting to address with TCoE) and get meta magics. Clerics, druids and paladin have hp, armor, and weapons (and more depending on class).
You also have to think about most of the garbage spells and ones that are generally limited to villians are on the wizard list: crown of madness, ray of enfeeblement, etc. And the spells that are used to justify a magic world like continual flame and teleportation circle.
The quill is only half the issue. Order of Scribe also gets the book which takes care of their 'material components' portion of the equation.
As for the 35k gold, in AL it really is meaningless with the exception of plate mail for fighter/paladin and the material cost of some spells (hero's feast, the new summons, leomund's secret chest.). Every other class, once they hit 5th level has nothing to spend gold on except costly material components or potions of healing. Wizards are the only class exception.
I wouldn't mind if they flat out banned the 'problem' spells (completely another discussion), said ignore material cost on spells and then set a limit on the type of armor allow per tier.
That isn't how that works though. Every other subclass of wizard can use wands and still have to pay to add spells to their book. Using a focus to cast spells you know and using materials to experiment with spells you don't know are separate mechanics.
The quill reduces time, not cost. That isn't even an opinion. That is what the effect says it is. It doesn't have any effects it doesn't say it has.
The replacing your spell book rules (PH pg.114) indicate 1 hour and 10 gp per level. That implies 10gp for inks, 40 gp for experimentation/other.
You could justify and argue a small decrease in costs by about 20% but that’s it.
Wait so let me just get this straight:
- To copy a new spell, it still costs the same amount.
- When copying a new spell, it only takes 2 mins per spell level (along with the 50g). This means copying and being able to use the spell right after copying it.
Is this right?
Personally, I think it’s important not just to remember the written rules and interpretation, but also intention. What’s the point of copying spells in minutes? I personally think that this massive time reduction is to allow a character to copy spells on the fly.
For example: Imagine your party is exploring a dungeon, and you come across a spell scroll. Instead of stuffing it in your bag, when your party takes their next short rest (Or whenever you’re not pressured by time), copy it over to your book. Then you can use that spell in the future and not waste a scroll casting. Or perhaps you can wait, and see if the scroll becomes necessary later on in the dungeon.
I suppose my point is that the purpose (RAI (Read as Intended)) of this feature is to allow the Wizard to gain a rather large spellbook and to add to it whilst adventuring.
To that end, as a DM, I’d remove the cost. Where are you even going to spend that cash in a dungeon?
But... to each their own. RAW the price is the same, but personally I believe that the RAI removes it entirely.
So in that sense what you're saying is that instead of having to take 2 hours to copy a 1st level spell, you can take 2 mins to copy it and then use 2 hours and 50g learn it later on when you have ample time. Would this be right?
By definition, a wizard knows all spells in their spellbook. I'm not sure what you mean by "learn", but there are no other steps - a wizard can prepare any spell in their spellbook when they prepare, and they know a spell as soon as it's in their spellbook.
Scribes cuts the time cost to copy from 2 hours per spell level to 2 minutes per spell level. How it impacts the monetary cost of 50 gp per spell level is impossible to determine, as the rules say the monetary cost is ink + components, but a spell can easily have components that cost more than spell level * 50 in gp. A reasonable interpretation might be that Scribes wizards omit the monetary cost entirely for spells without consumed M components that cost money and pay the full cost for spells that have them, but ultimately your DM just has to guess at RAI.
In short, the purpose of the wizardly quill is to allow the Wizard to learn a large amount of spells. Wizards already have the biggest spell list in the game, but this feature takes it to the max by reducing the time needed to scribe/copy spells. But what's the difference between 2 minutes and 2 hours if they both occur during downtime? I feel that the intention is to remove the cost entirely, to allow for spell scribing on the fly, such as in a dungeon. Again, to each their own. As a DM, it's your choice to follow the RAW or the RAI. But in my opinion, the RAI supersedes the RAW every time.
You still need to prepare it before you can cast it, which will take a long rest.
The scribe wizard does have other features that can benefit immediately.
I think that the description provides us with the answer but it’s not apparent, clearly. It suggests that you are using the cost for material components AND inks. The class skill says INKS are free and count as Magic inks for those purpose, because it states clearly that it produces it’s own ink. My ruling would be that the 50gp material costs only applies to spells with a material requirement and that spells with only somatic or verbal components are no cost to copy. It is a minor advantage that honors the RAW imho and isn’t out of balance at all. All spell copying for this subclass could be free and it would still not be super unbalanced even in the most restrictive campaign settings.Yes the cost adds up over time as you level, but I see this class ability as specifically designed for the purpose of making them better at scribing and preserving knowledge. It only gives more variety to the wizard since spells are still limited to what can be cast with slots, prepared spell limits, and the cost of making scrolls in time and gold. It is essentially just more tools in the tool box. The only question is whether your DM wants to over-ride the RAW to make the acquisition of spells more difficult to suit their setting. That’s between you and the DM.
I read it like this:
The general rule is:
Copying a Spell into the Book: When you find a Wizard spell of 1st Level or higher, you can add it to your Spellbook if it is of a Spell Level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
Copying that spell into your Spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the Wizard who wrote it. You must practice the spell until you understand the Sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your Spellbook using your own notation.
For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material Components you expend as you experiment with the spell to Master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it. Once you have spent this time and money, you can prepare the spell just like your other Spells.
The specific Rule of Scribe is:
The time you must spend to copy a spell into your spell book equals 2 minutes per spell level if you use the quill for the transcription.
So basically you just need to spend time to copy it. There is no experimenting, no inks, no material components, nada. Just time.
Hi friends! I know this thread has mostly ended, but since I recently started playing an Order of Scribes wizard, I started searching for feedback on how to interpret the Wizardly Quill. I think the debate has been officially resolved that the feature is in fact to eliminate both cost and time. See the first bullet point under Order of Scribes features:
They gain two level 2 abilities. The first of these, Wizardly Quill, grants the wizard a magical quill that doesn’t require ink and can copy down spells at 2 minutes per spell level. Normally, wizards must spend a whopping 2 hours per level copying a spell, which forces this activity to be done in the downtime before or after a long rest. The Order of Scribes wizard faces no such problem, and could potentially scribble down the most potent magics from an enemy archmage’s stash in the middle of a dungeon crawl while the rest of the party stays alert.
Source: https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/959-wizard-101-order-of-scribes-from-tashas-cauldron
Bear in mind Jeremy Blum is not a rules authority, he's just a guy with an opinion, like anyone else.
Or, well, he was when that post was made. Now that DDB employees are WOTC employees, anything they say in an official capacity is exactly as canonical as any other rules source.
... which is to say not at all.
From the Sage Advice Compendium
"The public statements of the D&D team, or anyone else at Wizards of the Coast, are not official rulings; they are advice. The tweets of Jeremy Crawford (@JeremyECrawford), the game’s principal rules designer, are sometimes a preview of rulings that appear here."
The only "canonical" rules are those found in the rule books and the rulings in the Sage Advice Compendium ... anything else is not official nor canonical.
To the poster above that :) ... nothing in the lines you cited gives any indication that the wizard doesn't have to spend gold on some part of the process to scribe the spells. Maybe the quill needs to be fed gold coins to function when scribing something magical? :) ... in the end, it is up to how your DM decides to run it but the only things the quill itself explicitly provide are the ink and the ability to scribe spells much much faster - it makes no mention regarding costs.
Personally I think the cost for new spells would be reduced by 10 gp.
Reasoning for this is the cost of ink is 10 gp for one. Then if you look at the Scribes other feature, "If necessary, you can replace the book over the course of a short rest by using your Wizardly Quill to write arcane sigils in a blank book or a magic spellbook to which you’re attuned. At the end of the rest, your spellbook’s consciousness is summoned into the new book, which the consciousness transforms into your spellbook, along with all its spells. If the previous book still existed somewhere, all the spells vanish from its pages." Going by the copying over spells to a new spell book, the cost is 10 gp and 1 hour. So a straightforward reasoning is 10 gp of the cost of a new spell is ink costs, and if the quill doesn't need ink, the new cost would be 40 gp for a new spell.
Again this is a straightforward reasoning not a indepth reasoning, so do with it what you will.