This post is to double-check my understanding of the rules. The grapple rules state the following about moving a creature:
Moving a Grappled Creature. When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you.
The way I read this that means a Medium size creature could move a Tiny size creature without taking a movement speed penalty. If so, then would a medium size creature be able to move a small sized creature with the Powerful Build Trait?
Powerful Build. You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
The key words here being carry(ing) and drag which is the same wording as the grapple rules.
Powerful Build only affects your size category for the purpose of carrying capacity. So say you're a medium creature with a carrying capacity of 150 lbs grappling a small creature weighing 160 lbs.
Without Powerful Build, you cannot carry this creature, but you can drag them at half your movement speed
With Powerful Build, you count as large for your carrying capacity, meaning its doubled to 300 lbs. This means you can carry the creature, but still at half speed
The creature would have to be tiny, or you be actually large (Powerful Build only counts for carrying capacity, not carrying ability and actions that rely on carrying) to drag or carry the creature without penalty
Powerful Build only affects your size category for the purpose of carrying capacity. So say you're a medium creature with a carrying capacity of 150 lbs grappling a small creature weighing 160 lbs.
Without Powerful Build, you cannot carry this creature, but you can drag them at half your movement speed
With Powerful Build, you count as large for your carrying capacity, meaning its doubled to 300 lbs. This means you can carry the creature, but still at half speed
The creature would have to be tiny, or you be actually large (Powerful Build only counts for carrying capacity, not carrying ability and actions that rely on carrying) to drag or carry the creature without penalty
As specifically written, Powerful Build only mentions the weight, whereas the gappling rule only mention the size category, so they don't interact.
For example, a 50 kg elf is in the same size category as a 150gk goliath, medium.
Also, on general principles, there are a lot of rules designed that way because they are not intended to have a technical effect on combat, which would push some rules into the "abusable" category.
So the key here is that Powerful Build uses the weight system and grappling doesn't?
Finally, the grappling rules are (I think on purpose) weak in 5e to discourage people playing too much with them. These rules have always been a problem in D&D, because it can quickly become very complex, but also because it has a tendency to bypass the normal, reasonably balanced combat rules. As such, minmaxers have always tried to abuse them, especially in 3e because of all the feats and classes built around this. 5e has corrected this and left them at a stage where none of the players in our group take this the wrong way by wanting to create grappling characters, these are rules for huge monsters with tentacles to grab you and eat you, not for players to use all the time, which would be silly in a world where huge monsters with tentacles exist, not to mention the slimes, the acid, the poisonous touch, the paralysing touch, etc.
The (non)interaction certainly does hamper my plans, though I feel like I can still make my Rune Knight Grappler work. however it would require a willing player to cast enlarge/reduce. Giants might would make me go from medium to large, and enlarge/reduce would make me go from large to huge.
Alternatively I could just accept the half movement, or bribe the DM.
Honestly, I will not comment on the last part, but RAW I think you should accept the half-movement, because requiring for two spells to be active, both requiring concentration and requiring a save from the enemy is really wishful thinking, it will never realistically happen during a fight.
Don't worry, bribing the DM was a joke ;)
Giant's might is the 3rd class feature of a Rune knight. Much like the Barbarian's Rage feature, it does not require concentration, it just gives you bonuses for 1 minute. One of the bonuses it gives is advantage on Strength Checks, which the Grapple feature is (contested, but still). So all that would need to happen for full movement displacement of foes is the enlarge/reduce spell, which doesn't seem unlikely, just not optimal.
I’ve been using grappling lately actually with an Unarmed Fighting Style character and it’s actually quite effective. At level 6 currently with Dragon Fear and Shield Master Feats, and an Athletics score of +6 is actually very potent.
Thats two grapple attempts and a Shield Master shove attempt each round, so anything large or smaller has a good chance of going down. Dragon Fear gives disadvantage on ability checks until they take *damage* so it gives me all the time in the world to lock them down.
With Unarmed Fighting Style, once they are prone I get 1d4 at the beginning of the round via , 2 head butt/kick attacks at 1d6+3 with advantage, and I can Shield Master shove anyone else I need to. And my allies have picked up on this, some even readying attacks if I’m lower in the initiative order.
If a friendly mage adds Enlarge... well, there’s almost nothing in the game that won’t get beaten down. And the team is starting to see that too 🙂
I was going to go full unarmed for the 1d8 damage die, with the grappler feat for advantage on attacks to grappled targets.
The option to pin a target to give my allies advantage too could be quite valuable in certain situations. Rather then knocking them prone, which gives disadvantage to ranged allies. Though knocking down is still an option to help adjacent melee allies.
Maybe I'll get tavern brawler too for the grapple on bonus action and proficiency with improvised weapons. The last part would be just for flavor because a grapple into a beatdown does more dps.
whatever anyone else has said about this, rules as written this is a big "hell yes you can". If they say otherwise, they are house/table ruling this.
to say no to this would be like telling a warlock with devil sight that they cant see through magical darkness.
Devil's Sight explicitly states that it works on magical darkness, whereas Powerful Build says nothing about grappling. Powerful Build only affects the weight you can carry and push; grappling does not take the weight of the person being grappled into account at all, only the size, so Powerful Build is irrelevant.
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This post is to double-check my understanding of the rules. The grapple rules state the following about moving a creature:
The way I read this that means a Medium size creature could move a Tiny size creature without taking a movement speed penalty. If so, then would a medium size creature be able to move a small sized creature with the Powerful Build Trait?
The key words here being carry(ing) and drag which is the same wording as the grapple rules.
Powerful Build only affects your size category for the purpose of carrying capacity. So say you're a medium creature with a carrying capacity of 150 lbs grappling a small creature weighing 160 lbs.
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So the key here is that Powerful Build uses the weight system and grappling doesn't?
The (non)interaction certainly does hamper my plans, though I feel like I can still make my Rune Knight Grappler work. however it would require a willing player to cast enlarge/reduce. Giants might would make me go from medium to large, and enlarge/reduce would make me go from large to huge.
Alternatively I could just accept the half movement, or bribe the DM.
Thanks for the clarification.
Don't worry, bribing the DM was a joke ;)
Giant's might is the 3rd class feature of a Rune knight. Much like the Barbarian's Rage feature, it does not require concentration, it just gives you bonuses for 1 minute. One of the bonuses it gives is advantage on Strength Checks, which the Grapple feature is (contested, but still). So all that would need to happen for full movement displacement of foes is the enlarge/reduce spell, which doesn't seem unlikely, just not optimal.
I’ve been using grappling lately actually with an Unarmed Fighting Style character and it’s actually quite effective. At level 6 currently with Dragon Fear and Shield Master Feats, and an Athletics score of +6 is actually very potent.
Thats two grapple attempts and a Shield Master shove attempt each round, so anything large or smaller has a good chance of going down. Dragon Fear gives disadvantage on ability checks until they take *damage* so it gives me all the time in the world to lock them down.
With Unarmed Fighting Style, once they are prone I get 1d4 at the beginning of the round via , 2 head butt/kick attacks at 1d6+3 with advantage, and I can Shield Master shove anyone else I need to. And my allies have picked up on this, some even readying attacks if I’m lower in the initiative order.
If a friendly mage adds Enlarge... well, there’s almost nothing in the game that won’t get beaten down. And the team is starting to see that too 🙂
I was going to go full unarmed for the 1d8 damage die, with the grappler feat for advantage on attacks to grappled targets.
The option to pin a target to give my allies advantage too could be quite valuable in certain situations. Rather then knocking them prone, which gives disadvantage to ranged allies. Though knocking down is still an option to help adjacent melee allies.
Maybe I'll get tavern brawler too for the grapple on bonus action and proficiency with improvised weapons. The last part would be just for flavor because a grapple into a beatdown does more dps.
Duergar get enlarge at 3rd level. A duergar rune knight is currently my plan for my next Adventurers League character.
Cool, I don't have that subrace.
Aside from that, a bothered dm will just have you go in caves where you can't be bigger then medium/large.
Personally I feel like grappling is under used, so I welcome the options.
whatever anyone else has said about this, rules as written this is a big "hell yes you can". If they say otherwise, they are house/table ruling this.
to say no to this would be like telling a warlock with devil sight that they cant see through magical darkness.
Devil's Sight explicitly states that it works on magical darkness, whereas Powerful Build says nothing about grappling. Powerful Build only affects the weight you can carry and push; grappling does not take the weight of the person being grappled into account at all, only the size, so Powerful Build is irrelevant.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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