If a folding boat is put inside a bag of holding and the command word is uttered, would the boat unfold and destroy the bag or would the word not be heard from within the extradimensional space?
If you're looking for a clear cut rule, you're not gonna find one. So it just depends on whether or not your DM believes the magic item can be activated inside the bag.
But my belief? If you're outside the bag, I don't know. If you're inside the bag with the boat, well lets just say you've got a one-way ticket to the Astral Plane.
Being Nice. No not destroyed and it does not work. Being gonzo. Not destroyed but boat pops out and person who was over the bag must make a DC 15 Dex save or fall prone/be flung to the end of bow. Being evil. Both are destroyed.
I would just hope that the DM doesn't rule that the box form has extra-planar properties that will react with the BOH or HH and cause a violent portal event.
I try to find and buy a Handy Haversack and an Efficient Quiver with every character I create. I have two that I think could really use a folding boat as well.
I would just hope that the DM doesn't rule that the box form has extra-planar properties that will react with the BOH or HH and cause a violent portal event.
I try to find and buy a Handy Haversack and an Efficient Quiver with every character I create. I have two that I think could really use a folding boat as well.
Well, based on this part from the description of the Folding Boat:
The third command word causes the folding boat to fold back into a box, provided that no creatures are aboard. Any objects in the vessel that can't fit inside the box remain outside the box as it folds. Any objects in the vessel that can fit inside the box do so.
I'd say that since it only allows whatever objects can fit inside of the 12-inches-long, 6-inches-wide, and 6-inches-deep box to stay inside, it's not extra-planar.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
This actually leads to more things to consider - as the folding boat has no limitations on whether it can be activated if it's in a confined space, what happens if it's activated in a building, or a dungeon?
I was expecting to see a "if there's no room it doesn't open" caveat, but no such one exists.
I'd rule that command word don't cross extradimension and would work only when in the same one. So you can't command a floating boat unless you are also inside the bag of holding.
While I absolutely love the imagery of jumping into your BoH and then riding the boat out as it unfolds itself I don't think that neither I nor the rules actually would allow for it.
What I would do if this was my campaign as DM and my players were testing this out, I would have the boat unfold in such a way that it ejects itself from the Bag of Holding without destroying it. At first I was hesitant about this stance, because what if the players start using this to set up elaborate boat traps? However... the Folding Boat by itself is perfectly capable of just being activated mid-air and dropping a barge on a group of bandits. The extra step of the Bag of Holding doesn't make it any more abusable than the Folding Boat is on its own.
Speaking of which, I falsely remembered some language saying that the Folding Boat could only be activated in a body of water large enough for the form it's being transformed into, but re-reading it I don't see anything about that. Is there a different magical object I'm thinking about that unfolds into a vehicle that restricts where and when you can release it?
Looking at the poll results to the original question (and how it doesn't match my understanding of the RAW), is there some rule for folding boat, bag of holding, or in general that says that the boat gets ejected into a space big enough to fit it or prevents it from unfolding in small spaces?
The way I understand it, the boat unfolds to 10 feet, the bag is a 4 foot square, 10 is greater than 4, the bag is overloaded/torn and the consequences happen.
Or did everybody answer "no" under the assumption that the bag was closed and OP was asking if sound could travel through dimensions (that was never made clear, but I assumed the question was about what was stated by the question and not about a completely different and slightly absurd question).
Looking at the poll results to the original question (and how it doesn't match my understanding of the RAW), is there some rule for folding boat, bag of holding, or in general that says that the boat gets ejected into a space big enough to fit it or prevents it from unfolding in small spaces?
The way I understand it, the boat unfolds to 10 feet, the bag is a 4 foot square, 10 is greater than 4, the bag is overloaded/torn and the consequences happen.
Or did everybody answer "no" under the assumption that the bag was closed and OP was asking if sound could travel through dimensions (that was never made clear, but I assumed the question was about what was stated by the question and not about a completely different and slightly absurd question).
I'm not aware of a specific rule regarding these items or of a general rule regarding something like this however from what I recall generally other features that involve something growing in size are prevented from growing when there's not a large enough space to allow them to do so.
Enlarge/Reduce for example: "If there isn't enough room for the target to double its size, the creature or object attains the maximum possible size in the space available."
Or with Rune Knight's Giant's Might: "If you lack the room to become Large, your size doesn't change."
Granted those are spells/class features not magic items but lacking any other existing rule for it my mind went to the "precedent" that's been fresh in my mind due to the recent Giant Options UA. So based on that my thinking was either being in an extra dimensional space would prevent the command word from taking effect or the constrained space would prevent the boat from unfolding completely. In either of those two courses of events the bag wouldn't be destroyed.
Reading the text, if the boat was activated inside a bag of holding, it would destroy the bag as it changed size. The bag is specifically destroyed if overloaded, pierced or torn - the limit is 64 cu ft or 500lbs. Neither of the folded boat options would fit in the bag so if they expand inside the bag, the bag will be destroyed.
The only question is whether the item can be activated inside the bag. This is up to the DM. Does sound cross the extra-planar interface at the entrance to the bag? Can a creature hiding in the bag hear what is going on outside?
I'm sure that some DMs have ruled that a creature in the bag can hear what goes on outside ... if that is the case then the folding boat would also be able to receive commands.
On the other hand, breathing creatures inside the bag suffocate within 10 minutes. This implies that there is no regular air exchange to the outside and if air doesn't get in then perhaps neither does sound (though that may depend on the nature of the interface - vibrations might be able to cross even if particles do not). However, if there is no air exchange then any air supply in the bag would be permanently depleted by the first creature to hide there and there would be no air available for subsequent creatures. Since the bag doesn't say that, it is reasonable to assume that the air in the bag does get replenished over some length of time.
Finally, even if sound can't enter the bag, presumably a creature could stick their head in the bag, mutter the command word and the boat would expand destroying the bag.
P.S. As for a boat activated in a space that can't contain it - there are no rules so the DM can choose to rule as they wish.
Options:
1) The magic item remains inert if there is not enough room to expand
2) The magic item expands to fill the available space - in the case of the folding boat, it only unfolds part way until it can't grow any larger due to space constraints.
3) The item pushes through, expanding to fill as much space as it needs even if the item is damaged or destroyed in the process.
Question:
If a folding boat is put inside a bag of holding and the command word is uttered, would the boat unfold and destroy the bag or would the word not be heard from within the extradimensional space?
I think not, surely sound cannot pass through to the pocket dimension in the bag.
If you're looking for a clear cut rule, you're not gonna find one. So it just depends on whether or not your DM believes the magic item can be activated inside the bag.
But my belief? If you're outside the bag, I don't know. If you're inside the bag with the boat, well lets just say you've got a one-way ticket to the Astral Plane.
If the bag was open or you were inside when the command is used, then yes.
Being Nice. No not destroyed and it does not work. Being gonzo. Not destroyed but boat pops out and person who was over the bag must make a DC 15 Dex save or fall prone/be flung to the end of bow. Being evil. Both are destroyed.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Thanks! I appreciate it.
haha yes
I would just hope that the DM doesn't rule that the box form has extra-planar properties that will react with the BOH or HH and cause a violent portal event.
I try to find and buy a Handy Haversack and an Efficient Quiver with every character I create. I have two that I think could really use a folding boat as well.
Well, based on this part from the description of the Folding Boat:
I'd say that since it only allows whatever objects can fit inside of the 12-inches-long, 6-inches-wide, and 6-inches-deep box to stay inside, it's not extra-planar.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
This actually leads to more things to consider - as the folding boat has no limitations on whether it can be activated if it's in a confined space, what happens if it's activated in a building, or a dungeon?
I was expecting to see a "if there's no room it doesn't open" caveat, but no such one exists.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread - latest release; the Harvest Sprite, a playable Jack-o-Lantern Race!
Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: The College of Fisticuffs Bard!
I also dabble in art on here (my art thread)
I'd rule that command word don't cross extradimension and would work only when in the same one. So you can't command a floating boat unless you are also inside the bag of holding.
While I absolutely love the imagery of jumping into your BoH and then riding the boat out as it unfolds itself I don't think that neither I nor the rules actually would allow for it.
It would certinly provide an interesting start to a spelljammer campaign.
You're all trapped in a bag of holding, and find the boat, unfold it to get out, rupture the bag, and then sail out across the astral plane.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread - latest release; the Harvest Sprite, a playable Jack-o-Lantern Race!
Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: The College of Fisticuffs Bard!
I also dabble in art on here (my art thread)
What I would do if this was my campaign as DM and my players were testing this out, I would have the boat unfold in such a way that it ejects itself from the Bag of Holding without destroying it. At first I was hesitant about this stance, because what if the players start using this to set up elaborate boat traps? However... the Folding Boat by itself is perfectly capable of just being activated mid-air and dropping a barge on a group of bandits. The extra step of the Bag of Holding doesn't make it any more abusable than the Folding Boat is on its own.
Speaking of which, I falsely remembered some language saying that the Folding Boat could only be activated in a body of water large enough for the form it's being transformed into, but re-reading it I don't see anything about that. Is there a different magical object I'm thinking about that unfolds into a vehicle that restricts where and when you can release it?
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Looking at the poll results to the original question (and how it doesn't match my understanding of the RAW), is there some rule for folding boat, bag of holding, or in general that says that the boat gets ejected into a space big enough to fit it or prevents it from unfolding in small spaces?
The way I understand it, the boat unfolds to 10 feet, the bag is a 4 foot square, 10 is greater than 4, the bag is overloaded/torn and the consequences happen.
Or did everybody answer "no" under the assumption that the bag was closed and OP was asking if sound could travel through dimensions (that was never made clear, but I assumed the question was about what was stated by the question and not about a completely different and slightly absurd question).
I'm not aware of a specific rule regarding these items or of a general rule regarding something like this however from what I recall generally other features that involve something growing in size are prevented from growing when there's not a large enough space to allow them to do so.
Enlarge/Reduce for example: "If there isn't enough room for the target to double its size, the creature or object attains the maximum possible size in the space available."
Or with Rune Knight's Giant's Might: "If you lack the room to become Large, your size doesn't change."
Granted those are spells/class features not magic items but lacking any other existing rule for it my mind went to the "precedent" that's been fresh in my mind due to the recent Giant Options UA. So based on that my thinking was either being in an extra dimensional space would prevent the command word from taking effect or the constrained space would prevent the boat from unfolding completely. In either of those two courses of events the bag wouldn't be destroyed.
It's a scenario that calls for a DM ruling.
Reading the text, if the boat was activated inside a bag of holding, it would destroy the bag as it changed size. The bag is specifically destroyed if overloaded, pierced or torn - the limit is 64 cu ft or 500lbs. Neither of the folded boat options would fit in the bag so if they expand inside the bag, the bag will be destroyed.
The only question is whether the item can be activated inside the bag. This is up to the DM. Does sound cross the extra-planar interface at the entrance to the bag? Can a creature hiding in the bag hear what is going on outside?
I'm sure that some DMs have ruled that a creature in the bag can hear what goes on outside ... if that is the case then the folding boat would also be able to receive commands.
On the other hand, breathing creatures inside the bag suffocate within 10 minutes. This implies that there is no regular air exchange to the outside and if air doesn't get in then perhaps neither does sound (though that may depend on the nature of the interface - vibrations might be able to cross even if particles do not). However, if there is no air exchange then any air supply in the bag would be permanently depleted by the first creature to hide there and there would be no air available for subsequent creatures. Since the bag doesn't say that, it is reasonable to assume that the air in the bag does get replenished over some length of time.
Finally, even if sound can't enter the bag, presumably a creature could stick their head in the bag, mutter the command word and the boat would expand destroying the bag.
P.S. As for a boat activated in a space that can't contain it - there are no rules so the DM can choose to rule as they wish.
Options:
1) The magic item remains inert if there is not enough room to expand
2) The magic item expands to fill the available space - in the case of the folding boat, it only unfolds part way until it can't grow any larger due to space constraints.
3) The item pushes through, expanding to fill as much space as it needs even if the item is damaged or destroyed in the process.