I'm kind of annoyed with the way Wizards of the Coast has treated Dark Sun

I'm kind of shocked to say this, but I agree with TheAceOfRogues. Sanding off the edges and treating this setting like another theme park attraction to visit in DND land is pretty insulting and honestly, pretty disappointing. Like some of the most fun characters in Dark Sun are the ones who are entirely justified in rebelling against the system and toppling the tyrannical power structure. It's compelling to know you are absolutely justified in fighting the system and overthrowing it, the system is genuinely unfair and it's oppression is felt far and wide. You don't really get as compelling of a reason to destroy the system when we start deciding to selectively start removing a primary reason for rebelling against the system. It just moves it closer to a necessary evil and less about truly evil tyrants who have absolutely no redeeming qualities with no moral lines they won't cross. I assume other heavy themes that were in the original Dark Sun are probably going to get sanded away too, thus the actual tyrants in the setting will continue to be defanged.

I mean, you're not really agreeing with me. I frankly don't care one way or the other and certainly am not going to feel "insulted" if they really soften it up. I'm just pointing out that they can't really "remove" the basic concept of a severely oppressed populace if they're aiming for anything like a dystopian post apocalypse setting.

D&D is a game based in imagination, but is built upon various real world connection points to give it a sense of internal consistency and familiarity. You won't see those "Warning: Explicit Content" stickers on D&D products like we used to see on CD's, because D&D is available equally to everyone, regardless of age. I started playing D&D at 11 and I'm still playing it 45 years later. But it should be clear that certain content is best reserved for only that subset of players that is old enough and mature enough to deal with it in a reasonably responsibly manner. Some subject matter, such as issues of slavery, or graphic sex, or genocide are severe enough to warrant the establishment of a corporate framework within the producer to ensure that they are upholding their responsibility to safeguard the more vulnerable of their customers from such content. 

But how would WotC or Hasbro do that? How would they perform that corporate due diligence? There are only two answers that I can see. The first would be to restrict the purchase of certain items to only those customers who can verify that they are at least 18 years of age. But how? Would the clerk at the game store physically check your ID? What about online purchases? And how would this prevent an adult from purchasing the material for young people? This method was attempted in the music industry decades ago because of a handful of self-righteous busy-bodies and it failed completely. 

The second, and in my opinion more reasonable, solution would be the one that WotC seems to have settled upon. That is to release a watered-down version of the content that either removes or glosses over the most severe examples of objectionable material. And then, anyone who wishes to reincorporate that material into their game may do so through homebrewing. That way, the corporation upholds their social responsibility, the less mature players get a new campaign world that feels extreme to their untested palettes, and those of us old enough and mature enough to handle the severe material in a reasonable and responsible manner may do so. 

After all, this is a game about imagination. If the published content isn't enough to satisfy you, homebrew. 

That's my 2 c.p.

Quote from Ophidimancer >>

Quote from Samueltheslayer >>

They got rid of the slavery?!

We don't know, but it certainly seems like they're not resting the entire premise of the grittiness on it. And also, so what if they did?

 If they got rid of it that would drastically change the setting considering it's an integral part of the theme of the setting.

"I mean, frankly from a worldbuilding perspective it's pretty hard to do "bleak wasteland dystopia" without some form of slavery, whether the word gets specifically used or not."

As per your own words. We agree on this premise. Our reasoning for it however, pretty different. If ya want to get weird and flippant about it, hey, go hog wild.
Clearly though we certainly differ on how much we might care about Dark Sun as a setting. I think it's pointless to bring back Dark Sun if you're not going to implement it teeth and all. Where I imagine you have way less vested interest. I'm coming from passion and care, so I think my vociferous complaints reflects that. 

Quote from AnzioFaro >>

D&D is a game based in imagination, but is built upon various real world connection points to give it a sense of internal consistency and familiarity. You won't see those "Warning: Explicit Content" stickers on D&D products like we used to see on CD's, because D&D is available equally to everyone, regardless of age. I started playing D&D at 11 and I'm still playing it 45 years later. But it should be clear that certain content is best reserved for only that subset of players that is old enough and mature enough to deal with it in a reasonably responsibly manner. Some subject matter, such as issues of slavery, or graphic sex, or genocide are severe enough to warrant the establishment of a corporate framework within the producer to ensure that they are upholding their responsibility to safeguard the more vulnerable of their customers from such content. 

But how would WotC or Hasbro do that? How would they perform that corporate due diligence? There are only two answers that I can see. The first would be to restrict the purchase of certain items to only those customers who can verify that they are at least 18 years of age. But how? Would the clerk at the game store physically check your ID? What about online purchases? And how would this prevent an adult from purchasing the material for young people? This method was attempted in the music industry decades ago because of a handful of self-righteous busy-bodies and it failed completely. 

The second, and in my opinion more reasonable, solution would be the one that WotC seems to have settled upon. That is to release a watered-down version of the content that either removes or glosses over the most severe examples of objectionable material. And then, anyone who wishes to reincorporate that material into their game may do so through homebrewing. That way, the corporation upholds their social responsibility, the less mature players get a new campaign world that feels extreme to their untested palettes, and those of us old enough and mature enough to handle the severe material in a reasonable and responsible manner may do so. 

After all, this is a game about imagination. If the published content isn't enough to satisfy you, homebrew. 

That's my 2 c.p.

 
Dark Sun was already sort of niche, it already appealed to a smaller pie of the whole DND audience. It's this idea that the company needs to appeal to as many people as possible that is erasing the unique identity of multiple different game worlds. We need to appeal to more demographics, so, let's bring back Dark Sun and scrub it of everything that could possible offend anybody. Ok? So now instead of having a niche that appeals strongly to a subset of the DND audience, you have a watered down theme park attraction version of Dark Sun. 
This homogenization, this serving as many people at once philosophy, the end result is something that will appeal to nobody. 

Like, sure people can homebrew and make up what they want, but the initial draw? That first impression that the Forgotten Realms and Dark Sun gives? There's going to be nothing left other than a generic fantasy world but medieval, and generic fantasy world but desert. And that initial appeal that draws people in like me, relies on a compelling setting. Like, you need something to spark the imagination of people. Appealing to everybody eventually appeals to nobody. You need to risk alienating some people, you need to be bold and tell stories and settings with passion and boldness. Excite people, push boundaries. 

You're not going to get that with this approach. If your out of the box setting feels like just another theme park attraction, you're never going to hook anybody new. The property just becomes another monument to mismanagement. Would the Mad Max series be as beloved as it was if it watered everything down? Probably not. The initial impression your setting gives absolutely matters. Especially so because official content for this setting is going to follow by those watered down standards, which will shape the impression of the setting far differently than it's original form did.

All very good points. No question about it. I consider myself fortunate to have experienced things like Dark Sun, and Mad Max, and even the Watchmen and Rocky Horror and the whole punk music scene during my formative years. I got to see how sharp the edge was before it got dulled by commercialization and commodification. But, referring to my earlier point of accessibility, all of the Mad Max movies (with the exception of Thunderdome) were rated R. They were not available to everyone. And those restrictions were imposed because the movies contained some of the same problematic elements that made Dark Sun such a worthy successor to that genre. So if we were to follow your example of Mad Max, then Hasbro would have to find some way of restricting the purchase of that game material to only people of a certain age. That's just not feasible. (And yes, I know, movie ratings are not enforced like law. I saw the original Mad Max at the drive-in when I was NINE!) 

The sharpest blades are the first to lose their edge. Dark Sun was a really sharp blade. It was a great idea. If it had been introduced by some indie brand, and given time to gain popularity slowly, by word of mouth, it would have been huge. But being introduced by the undisputed flagship of the RPG industry meant that it risked overplaying its hand. It's definitely not for everyone, but it was presented to everyone all at once. It became too popular too quickly. Personally, I don't trust anything that becomes too popular too quickly. Take quinoa for example. For most of my life I had never heard that word. Then one morning I wake up and everywhere I look it's in every item on every menu. It all comes down to the fact that this game we love is not just our game. It's a commodity that exists within a corporate framework in a period of late-stage capitalism. Every idea in our society will inevitably bend and break under the unrelenting pull of profit. 

It's like Top Dollar (played by Michael Wincott) said in The Crow (1994), "You know what they got now?!? Devil's Night greeting cards!" 

Companies are too bloated and risk averse now to make something like Mad Max now. It's a shame really, but that's just a rabbit hole for me to rant and rave about new media and such.
I mean sure, putting age restrictions on a product isn't sales friendly. I get that, but then you have to wonder. Why bother resurrecting the IP at all? The angle obviously is to appeal to older DND players, to revive a beloved but niche IP. This isn't a full throated revival though, it's a watered down half assed return without any of the edges that made this setting stand out. I don't think most of the original fans of Dark Sun will appreciate that, but I guess I'm not a marketing executive. Though at his point I'd feel like I'd do a better job than most marketing executives with the incredible string of poor decisions coming out of Hasbro or most companies at this point *cough every AI company right now*. 

Regardless, I feel like it'd make more sense for them to keep the setting to it's roots. It'd make more market sense though, me screaming to the clouds about how counter intuitive the move is, will likely never change these decisions. One thing I find ironic is that the new material they're showing off for nu-Dark Sun is pretty over the top violent. The violence is grotesque, even outdoing the original Dark Sun. It's bizarre that this sort of extreme violence is not considered off putting to their current audience, yet Slavery even mentioned as a concept is the moral line. Just think on that, the setting is ok with gruesomely pulling out some dude's head, ripping his spinal column out in the process, just make sure you don't mention that slavery might exist, don't even say the word. Ookay?

The moral lines are just, bizarre to me. Honestly reminds me of the South Park Movie. "Horrible, deplorable violence is okay. So long as you don't say any naughty words." That's what it feels like right now, and like, honestly, making something comically over the top violent is a child's way of making their setting seem adult. 

The focus on hyperviolence as a substitute for all the other themes we're not supposed to show is just standard American hypocrisy at its best. It's a-okay to show people slaughtering each other left and right, just don't say a naughty word, and god forbid you show a female nipple! This watering down isn't new. It's just another step on a long journey we've been on for decades, even centuries. Look at Disney! Sleeping Beauty wasn't awakened by true love's kiss. She was raped and gave birth to twins while still unconscious! Peter Pan was a serial killer who murdered any child who appeared to be growing up. Mulan "used the self checkout lane" rather than become the Emperor's concubine. But you'd never know that by watching the animated movies. And why did they change the original stories? To appeal to a wider audience. To make more money.

Maybe it was a mistake to stage a full scale re-release of Dark Sun. After all, it had never been more than a niche within a niche to begin with. To remain true to the original content would mean, at best, quietly releasing a small supplement packet, updating the game to the current 5.5e ruleset, with no fanfare at all. It would retain all the troublesome bits, and it would only appeal, or even be recognized, by the handful of us who remember what it was. To everyone else it would just be another supplement quickly overshadowed by the Next Big Announcement. 

But that's not how corporations work. That's not how late-stage capitalism works. They are determined to get every last drop of blood from every stone they can find. 

Quote from AnzioFaro >>

D&D is a game based in imagination, but is built upon various real world connection points to give it a sense of internal consistency and familiarity. You won't see those "Warning: Explicit Content" stickers on D&D products like we used to see on CD's, because D&D is available equally to everyone, regardless of age.

 
They already say that they will do exactly that, the Dark Sun books will have a "Warning: explicit Content" sticker

Quote from AnzioFaro >>

The focus on hyperviolence as a substitute for all the other themes we're not supposed to show is just standard American hypocrisy at its best. It's a-okay to show people slaughtering each other left and right, just don't say a naughty word, and god forbid you show a female nipple! This watering down isn't new.

In the intervel they say that all that will be in the books, the oppression of the people, the nudity, all.