For an upcoming campaign (lvl 8-12) i want to play a character that is full a support character, trying to control the battles, getting as little involved into actual combat as possible, a commander of sorts.
With support i mean anything not dealing direct damage (from a distance) such as healing, utility, (de)buffing and battlefield control.
The main problem i ran into with this concept was the obvious limitation of concentration spells. It is hard to concentrate on buffs such as bless/bane and control the battlefield with spells like spike growth at the same time.
What would be a strong build that can realize this concept? Which (sub) classes would suit this playstyle the most? What 'support' spells (that do not require concentration) can alter the course of battle like no other?
Bard, to me, is ideal for this... probably College of Eloquence... they get an additional use of Bardic Inspiration where they can use it to subtract from a creature's saving throw, and when you give Inspiration to your allies they can keep the Inspiration die if it doesn't lead to a success....
As for the concentration issue... one of the best spells for some battlefield control that doesn't take concentration is Blindness/Deafness. So while you're concentrating on something like Hypnotic Pattern you can also blind any enemy who doesn't get caught in that effect. Sleep is another good non-damaging, non-concentration spell, although it's not going to be much help against particularly strong opponents. Command is another good low-level spell without concentration... it only buys you a single round, but if you're smart with it then it can really be a game changer. If you're trying to save spell slots there aren't any really good Bard cantrips for battlefield control... you might be better off using the Help action to give your allies advantage, or maybe focus on items like Oil or Ball Bearings to affect the battlefield... I was about to recommend a Net, but it's actually a Martial Weapon so you couldn't use it with proficiency. Nets are kind of weird anyway, but it's something to keep in mind, just in case.
Also, I'd recommend going for a STR build, which isn't common for Bards, but it gives you the option to start Grappling and Shoving enemies as well. As a bard you can give yourself expertise in Athletics, so even with a STR of 10 you'd still get a +6 to grapple attempts at level 8.
You could go for a Peace Cleric. Embioldening Bond is pretty much concentration-free Bless which allows you to use you concentration for other spells. If you don't mind dealing some damage, Spiritual Weapon is also concentration free.
You could go for a Peace Cleric. Embioldening Bond is pretty much concentration-free Bless which allows you to use you concentration for other spells. If you don't mind dealing some damage, Spiritual Weapon is also concentration free.
You have top-tier healing (Healing Word), buff (Bless), battlefield control (Command, Web and Hypnotic Pattern) and the best level 3 spell in the game (Spirits Guardian).
lol, Spiritual Weapon is a pure damage spell, it isn't support / utility at all.
So? It was still perfect for the OP.
Bards and Druids are required to be support characters by their class design. I'd recommend Eloquence/Lore Bard, or Dreams/Shepherd/Starry Druid.
You'll waste some of Star Druid's best abilities if you don't deal damage with it. Sure, they're still good support but you don't use the subclass to its full potential.
lol, Spiritual Weapon is a pure damage spell, it isn't support / utility at all.
So? It was still perfect for the OP.
Bards and Druids are required to be support characters by their class design. I'd recommend Eloquence/Lore Bard, or Dreams/Shepherd/Starry Druid.
You'll waste some of Star Druid's best abilities if you don't deal damage with it. Sure, they're still good support but you don't use the subclass to its full potential.
For non-concentration battlefield control spells consider: Blindness/Deafness, Command, Tasha's Mind Whip, Erupting Earth, Plant Growth, Transmute Rock, Sleep, Psychic Lance, Rime's Ice Breath, Thunderwave, Tidal Wave.
Lots of damage spells there...
They are ones that have some kind of rider that actually does Battlefield control though (which is why their damage mostly sucks), not a pure damage spell like Spiritual Weapon (which has 0 benefit to battlefield control). I just think it's hilarious the OP says they want to be mainly support & battlefield control, but then loves the pure damage spell that is useless for battlefield control and is favouring concentration spells that aren't battlefield control either, but rather just buff / debuff.
"Commander" build 1: Chronurgy Wizard Spells: Sleep, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Silvery Barbs, Shield, Absorb Elements Vortex Warp, Rime's Binding Ice, Web, Tasha's Mind Whip (optional: Crown of Madness - it is very Commander-y but pretty weak spell) Hypnotic Pattern, Counterspell, Thunder Step, Fly Banishment, Polymorph, Psychic Lance Resilient Sphere Bigby's Hand, Dominate Person, Transmute Rock, Telekinesis
"Commander" build 2: Order Cleric Spells: Light Command, Bless, Healing Word, Guiding Bolt, Shield of Faith Calm Emotions, Silence, Hold Person Dispel Magic, Mass Healing Word, Banishment, Guardian of Faith, Freedom of Movement Mass Cure Wounds
"Commander" build 3: Starry Druid Spells: Thorn Whip Entangle, Faerie Fire, Healing Word Spike Growth, Wither and Bloom Erupting Earth, Conjure Animals, Tidal Wave Polymorph, Freedom of Movement Mass Cure Wounds, Transmute Rock, Maelstrom
Bards and Druids are required to be support characters by their class design. I'd recommend Eloquence/Lore Bard, or Dreams/Shepherd/Starry Druid.
Haha your having a giraffe. Shepherds druid is a monster in combat due to their summoned creatures. I regularly dominate battles when I drop 8 velociraptors on a bad guy. Stars druids are less nova but have excellent repeatable damage round after round. They absolutely are not ‘required’ to be support classes at all. A friend doesn’t need a healer if the enemy died before it landed a hit.
For a support build without focus on dealing damage, does playing a Shepherd Druid with a lot of creature summoning count? On the one hand, even weak creatures can output a lot of damage if you have a lot of them... but on the other hand, it's not the actual druid dealing the damage, just the creatures they summon.
Bards and Druids are required to be support characters by their class design. I'd recommend Eloquence/Lore Bard, or Dreams/Shepherd/Starry Druid.
Haha your having a giraffe. Shepherds druid is a monster in combat due to their summoned creatures. I regularly dominate battles when I drop 8 velociraptors on a bad guy. Stars druids are less nova but have excellent repeatable damage round after round. They absolutely are not ‘required’ to be support classes at all. A friend doesn’t need a healer if the enemy died before it landed a hit.
Sure if your DM allows it. But most DMs don't. Also this doesn't last up into level 8-12 which is what the OP is playing at, as monsters increasingly have flight (negates 90% of summons) and AoEs which will obliterate your summons if you continue trying to use swarms (and your DM allows you to use swarms). Stars Druid DPR doesn't scale, at level 1-5 sure they are quite blasty but beyond that a 1st level guiding bolt is dealing more than half of its total damage thanks to giving your ally advantage on the target (i.e. support) not by the spell itself (4d6 is peanuts to a CR 6,7,8+ creature).
For an upcoming campaign (lvl 8-12) i want to play a character that is full a support character, trying to control the battles, getting as little involved into actual combat as possible, a commander of sorts.
With support i mean anything not dealing direct damage (from a distance) such as healing, utility, (de)buffing and battlefield control.
The main problem i ran into with this concept was the obvious limitation of concentration spells. It is hard to concentrate on buffs such as bless/bane and control the battlefield with spells like spike growth at the same time.
What would be a strong build that can realize this concept? Which (sub) classes would suit this playstyle the most? What 'support' spells (that do not require concentration) can alter the course of battle like no other?
Multi-class a Rogue Mastermind (3 levels for the bonus action help), with any spellcaster you see fit, be it bard, cleric, warlock, etc.
Bards and Druids are required to be support characters by their class design. I'd recommend Eloquence/Lore Bard, or Dreams/Shepherd/Starry Druid.
Haha your having a giraffe. Shepherds druid is a monster in combat due to their summoned creatures. I regularly dominate battles when I drop 8 velociraptors on a bad guy. Stars druids are less nova but have excellent repeatable damage round after round. They absolutely are not ‘required’ to be support classes at all. A friend doesn’t need a healer if the enemy died before it landed a hit.
Sure if your DM allows it. But most DMs don't. Also this doesn't last up into level 8-12 which is what the OP is playing at, as monsters increasingly have flight (negates 90% of summons) and AoEs which will obliterate your summons if you continue trying to use swarms (and your DM allows you to use swarms). Stars Druid DPR doesn't scale, at level 1-5 sure they are quite blasty but beyond that a 1st level guiding bolt is dealing more than half of its total damage thanks to giving your ally advantage on the target (i.e. support) not by the spell itself (4d6 is peanuts to a CR 6,7,8+ creature).
Oh it absolutely does. Try this 2 parter at level 15 by the dungeon dudes, d4:optimised, and treant monk.
Also if your single contribution to combat at level 8 is casting guiding bolt at level 1 then you seriously have no clue how to play a druid. In my Friday game the lvl 6 shepherd druid out damages everyone in the party, including the barbarian when raging.
"Commander" build 2: Order Cleric Spells: Light Command, Bless, Healing Word, Guiding Bolt, Shield of Faith Calm Emotions, Silence, Hold Person Dispel Magic, Mass Healing Word, Banishment, Guardian of Faith, Freedom of Movement Mass Cure Wounds
Your post reminded me a really crazy build. It’s polemic and debatable, definitely need to triple check with your DM, but some audacious tables allow the nuclear combination of Evoker Sculpt Spells + Order Cleric Voice of Authority. What does it mean?
Cast your favorite evocation AoE spell upon your allies and enemies. Protect your friends with Sculpt Spells. Trigger your ally to attack any remaining foe with their reaction.
Bards and Druids are required to be support characters by their class design. I'd recommend Eloquence/Lore Bard, or Dreams/Shepherd/Starry Druid.
Haha your having a giraffe. Shepherds druid is a monster in combat due to their summoned creatures. I regularly dominate battles when I drop 8 velociraptors on a bad guy. Stars druids are less nova but have excellent repeatable damage round after round. They absolutely are not ‘required’ to be support classes at all. A friend doesn’t need a healer if the enemy died before it landed a hit.
Sure if your DM allows it. But most DMs don't. Also this doesn't last up into level 8-12 which is what the OP is playing at, as monsters increasingly have flight (negates 90% of summons) and AoEs which will obliterate your summons if you continue trying to use swarms (and your DM allows you to use swarms). Stars Druid DPR doesn't scale, at level 1-5 sure they are quite blasty but beyond that a 1st level guiding bolt is dealing more than half of its total damage thanks to giving your ally advantage on the target (i.e. support) not by the spell itself (4d6 is peanuts to a CR 6,7,8+ creature).
Oh it absolutely does. Try this 2 parter at level 15 by the dungeon dudes, d4:optimised, and treant monk.
Also if your single contribution to combat at level 8 is casting guiding bolt at level 1 then you seriously have no clue how to play a druid. In my Friday game the lvl 6 shepherd druid out damages everyone in the party, including the barbarian when raging.
I saw it (and FYI I'm currently playing a level 13 moon druid in a campaign). And the velociraptors weren't particularly OP. 40-50 DPR for a 5th level slot is less than an equally levelled Fireball would have been against the Storm Giants, the summons were ineffective against the casters, and they were limited to Giant Owls vs the dragon which are far less DPR than velociraptors. Sure at 5th and 6th level Shepherd can be a beast with raptors (again if your DM allows, which many do not). But they aren't particularly OP compared to a Wall of Force or 11th level Paladin with a level appropriate magic weapon.
It’s a THIRD level slot. Have you even read the rules?
It is also a free action to use them so you still have your action and bonus action. Depending on your build there are numerous other options that you can be doing at the same time. An attack spell like blight would increase your damage output by another 8d8 on top of that 50-70 damage. There’s cone of cold, lightning bolt, stinking cloud, scorching ray, burning hands. You could healing word as a bonus action and make an attack with a cantrip, the stary druid could cast an attack spell and also fire an arrow with their bonus action. I mean come on mate. Comparing someone casting a level 3 spell (available to a 5th level character) and then doing nothing else for the rest of the fight to an 11th level paladin making multiple attacks and smites with a magical weapon and saying “the druid isn’t as good” is just plain stupidity. If your druid isn’t doing over 100hp damage per round then you’re just not using their abilities the way you should. This doesn't even include multi-classing. I played a cleric/druid mc and at level 9 my record was 204 damage in a single round, though that included a few critical hits.
For an upcoming campaign (lvl 8-12) i want to play a character that is full a support character, trying to control the battles, getting as little involved into actual combat as possible, a commander of sorts.
With support i mean anything not dealing direct damage (from a distance) such as healing, utility, (de)buffing and battlefield control.
The main problem i ran into with this concept was the obvious limitation of concentration spells. It is hard to concentrate on buffs such as bless/bane and control the battlefield with spells like spike growth at the same time.
What would be a strong build that can realize this concept? Which (sub) classes would suit this playstyle the most? What 'support' spells (that do not require concentration) can alter the course of battle like no other?
Bard, to me, is ideal for this... probably College of Eloquence... they get an additional use of Bardic Inspiration where they can use it to subtract from a creature's saving throw, and when you give Inspiration to your allies they can keep the Inspiration die if it doesn't lead to a success....
As for the concentration issue... one of the best spells for some battlefield control that doesn't take concentration is Blindness/Deafness. So while you're concentrating on something like Hypnotic Pattern you can also blind any enemy who doesn't get caught in that effect. Sleep is another good non-damaging, non-concentration spell, although it's not going to be much help against particularly strong opponents. Command is another good low-level spell without concentration... it only buys you a single round, but if you're smart with it then it can really be a game changer. If you're trying to save spell slots there aren't any really good Bard cantrips for battlefield control... you might be better off using the Help action to give your allies advantage, or maybe focus on items like Oil or Ball Bearings to affect the battlefield... I was about to recommend a Net, but it's actually a Martial Weapon so you couldn't use it with proficiency. Nets are kind of weird anyway, but it's something to keep in mind, just in case.
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Also, I'd recommend going for a STR build, which isn't common for Bards, but it gives you the option to start Grappling and Shoving enemies as well. As a bard you can give yourself expertise in Athletics, so even with a STR of 10 you'd still get a +6 to grapple attempts at level 8.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
You could go for a Peace Cleric. Embioldening Bond is pretty much concentration-free Bless which allows you to use you concentration for other spells. If you don't mind dealing some damage, Spiritual Weapon is also concentration free.
^
This
Thnx for the tips! Spiritual Weapon is also perfectly in line with the kind of character i had in mind, thnx!
Divine Soul Sorcerer.
You have top-tier healing (Healing Word), buff (Bless), battlefield control (Command, Web and Hypnotic Pattern) and the best level 3 spell in the game (Spirits Guardian).
Couple levels of Warlock can help a lot.
lol, Spiritual Weapon is a pure damage spell, it isn't support / utility at all.
Bards and Druids are required to be support characters by their class design. I'd recommend Eloquence/Lore Bard, or Dreams/Shepherd/Starry Druid.
Wizards have the option to be blasters or support - choose your spells wisely.
Clerics - Twilight, Peace, or Life - are supreme for buffing the party & healing. Order has awesome mechanics for a commander-like character.
For non-concentration battlefield control spells consider: Blindness/Deafness, Command, Tasha's Mind Whip, Erupting Earth, Plant Growth, Transmute Rock, Sleep, Psychic Lance, Rime's Ice Breath, Thunderwave, Tidal Wave.
So? It was still perfect for the OP.
You'll waste some of Star Druid's best abilities if you don't deal damage with it. Sure, they're still good support but you don't use the subclass to its full potential.
Lots of damage spells there...
They are ones that have some kind of rider that actually does Battlefield control though (which is why their damage mostly sucks), not a pure damage spell like Spiritual Weapon (which has 0 benefit to battlefield control). I just think it's hilarious the OP says they want to be mainly support & battlefield control, but then loves the pure damage spell that is useless for battlefield control and is favouring concentration spells that aren't battlefield control either, but rather just buff / debuff.
"Commander" build 1: Chronurgy Wizard
Spells:
Sleep, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Silvery Barbs, Shield, Absorb Elements
Vortex Warp, Rime's Binding Ice, Web, Tasha's Mind Whip (optional: Crown of Madness - it is very Commander-y but pretty weak spell)
Hypnotic Pattern, Counterspell, Thunder Step, Fly
Banishment, Polymorph, Psychic Lance Resilient Sphere
Bigby's Hand, Dominate Person, Transmute Rock, Telekinesis
"Commander" build 2: Order Cleric
Spells:
Light
Command, Bless, Healing Word, Guiding Bolt, Shield of Faith
Calm Emotions, Silence, Hold Person
Dispel Magic, Mass Healing Word,
Banishment, Guardian of Faith, Freedom of Movement
Mass Cure Wounds
"Commander" build 3: Starry Druid
Spells:
Thorn Whip
Entangle, Faerie Fire, Healing Word
Spike Growth, Wither and Bloom
Erupting Earth, Conjure Animals, Tidal Wave
Polymorph, Freedom of Movement
Mass Cure Wounds, Transmute Rock, Maelstrom
Haha your having a giraffe. Shepherds druid is a monster in combat due to their summoned creatures. I regularly dominate battles when I drop 8 velociraptors on a bad guy. Stars druids are less nova but have excellent repeatable damage round after round. They absolutely are not ‘required’ to be support classes at all. A friend doesn’t need a healer if the enemy died before it landed a hit.
For a support build without focus on dealing damage, does playing a Shepherd Druid with a lot of creature summoning count? On the one hand, even weak creatures can output a lot of damage if you have a lot of them... but on the other hand, it's not the actual druid dealing the damage, just the creatures they summon.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Sure if your DM allows it. But most DMs don't. Also this doesn't last up into level 8-12 which is what the OP is playing at, as monsters increasingly have flight (negates 90% of summons) and AoEs which will obliterate your summons if you continue trying to use swarms (and your DM allows you to use swarms). Stars Druid DPR doesn't scale, at level 1-5 sure they are quite blasty but beyond that a 1st level guiding bolt is dealing more than half of its total damage thanks to giving your ally advantage on the target (i.e. support) not by the spell itself (4d6 is peanuts to a CR 6,7,8+ creature).
Multi-class a Rogue Mastermind (3 levels for the bonus action help), with any spellcaster you see fit, be it bard, cleric, warlock, etc.
Blank
Oh it absolutely does. Try this 2 parter at level 15 by the dungeon dudes, d4:optimised, and treant monk.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=74xpFWHtmKs
Also if your single contribution to combat at level 8 is casting guiding bolt at level 1 then you seriously have no clue how to play a druid. In my Friday game the lvl 6 shepherd druid out damages everyone in the party, including the barbarian when raging.
Your post reminded me a really crazy build. It’s polemic and debatable, definitely need to triple check with your DM, but some audacious tables allow the nuclear combination of Evoker Sculpt Spells + Order Cleric Voice of Authority. What does it mean?
Cast your favorite evocation AoE spell upon your allies and enemies. Protect your friends with Sculpt Spells. Trigger your ally to attack any remaining foe with their reaction.
I saw it (and FYI I'm currently playing a level 13 moon druid in a campaign). And the velociraptors weren't particularly OP. 40-50 DPR for a 5th level slot is less than an equally levelled Fireball would have been against the Storm Giants, the summons were ineffective against the casters, and they were limited to Giant Owls vs the dragon which are far less DPR than velociraptors. Sure at 5th and 6th level Shepherd can be a beast with raptors (again if your DM allows, which many do not). But they aren't particularly OP compared to a Wall of Force or 11th level Paladin with a level appropriate magic weapon.
It’s a THIRD level slot. Have you even read the rules?
It is also a free action to use them so you still have your action and bonus action. Depending on your build there are numerous other options that you can be doing at the same time. An attack spell like blight would increase your damage output by another 8d8 on top of that 50-70 damage. There’s cone of cold, lightning bolt, stinking cloud, scorching ray, burning hands. You could healing word as a bonus action and make an attack with a cantrip, the stary druid could cast an attack spell and also fire an arrow with their bonus action. I mean come on mate. Comparing someone casting a level 3 spell (available to a 5th level character) and then doing nothing else for the rest of the fight to an 11th level paladin making multiple attacks and smites with a magical weapon and saying “the druid isn’t as good” is just plain stupidity. If your druid isn’t doing over 100hp damage per round then you’re just not using their abilities the way you should. This doesn't even include multi-classing. I played a cleric/druid mc and at level 9 my record was 204 damage in a single round, though that included a few critical hits.