Just looking for opinions. Still consider myself new so although I may have an opinion, some opinions are better than others. Not sure if question belongs here or in Rules and Mechanics.
Leveling up Paladin to LVL 8. Oath of Vengeance. (Long but legit backstory to that and playing Curse of Strahd.) Apparently only gives Ability Score increases. Fine. Increase STR for Divine Smite Melee Attack? Increase CHA for Paladin's limited spellcasting abilities? Or maybe DEX, well, ...just because? 🤷♂️
If you're not multiclassing, Strength is probably your best bet. Charisma is decent for the times you're not using spell slots for divine smite, but even then I'd probably boost Constitution after Strength for more HP.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
I've noticed a lot of new players don't prioritize CON... it's not really used in any skill checks and it's somewhat uncommon as a saving throw, but the fact that it determines your HP is huge. I don't think there's a single class in the game that doesn't want good CON.
Charisma. If it isn't at +5, get it there. Your aura of protection is the single best feature your class has. And that's saying something because paladin is loaded with hella good features.
That is what I was originally thinking as well. But as I mentioned my HP just sucks. And in CoS that just won't fly. I have already been reduced to zero and been brought back twice, and we aren't even there yet.
That is what I was originally thinking as well. But as I mentioned my HP just sucks. And in CoS that just won't fly. I have already been reduced to zero and been brought back twice, and we aren't even there yet.
That's what Lay on Hands is for, to compensate your survivability for not taking Tough (which is 2x as good as increasing con for your hp) or CON ASI. You should increase STR or CHA, it doesn't really matter which one they are equally valuable.
Just looking for opinions. Still consider myself new so although I may have an opinion, some opinions are better than others. Not sure if question belongs here or in Rules and Mechanics.
Leveling up Paladin to LVL 8. Oath of Vengeance. (Long but legit backstory to that and playing Curse of Strahd.) Apparently only gives Ability Score increases. Fine. Increase STR for Divine Smite Melee Attack? Increase CHA for Paladin's limited spellcasting abilities? Or maybe DEX, well, ...just because? 🤷♂️
What were your ability scores going into the level-up?
What is your character's roles? During a session, what does your party expect you to do or take the lead on. For example, the Paladin my have limited spellcasting ability but are you also the diplomat of the group; CHA is important for persuasion, intimidation, and deception.
When doing ability score improvement, the question to ask is "Do I increase on of my power stats or do buff one of my weaknesses?"
From reading your posts, I think the answer is increase CON. It is an important stat for you as a frontline fighter but is also helps with your spellcasting. Since you can't take a Warcaster or Resilient feat the only option to help with your CON save for maintaining concentration is to have a a good CON modifier. This seems to be the clear priority.
If you plan to wear heavy armor and don't use range weapons then increasing your DEX is not a good call. Most likely you won't increase your save changes enough to avoid full damage on attacks/spells. And DEX skill checks are something you won't make as often as other ability skill checks.
Proficiency in WIS saves is huge. So even if your score is low in this ability, I would say being proficient in the save is good enough to invest elsewhere.
Build up CON and then STR (try to maximize these). Depending on how much you use your CHA modifier will dictate how big you should go here. A +3 is generally good enough to be very effective if you moderately use it during each session.
I went with CON. It was just enough, at least at this level up, to make a big difference to my survivability. My "role" has evolved into spokesperson, battle planner, and front line fighter. Nobody ever really stepped up.
What is your character's roles? During a session, what does your party expect you to do or take the lead on. For example, the Paladin my have limited spellcasting ability but are you also the diplomat of the group; CHA is important for persuasion, intimidation, and deception.
When doing ability score improvement, the question to ask is "Do I increase on of my power stats or do buff one of my weaknesses?"
From reading your posts, I think the answer is increase CON. It is an important stat for you as a frontline fighter but is also helps with your spellcasting. Since you can't take a Warcaster or Resilient feat the only option to help with your CON save for maintaining concentration is to have a a good CON modifier. This seems to be the clear priority.
If you plan to wear heavy armor and don't use range weapons then increasing your DEX is not a good call. Most likely you won't increase your save changes enough to avoid full damage on attacks/spells. And DEX skill checks are something you won't make as often as other ability skill checks.
Proficiency in WIS saves is huge. So even if your score is low in this ability, I would say being proficient in the save is good enough to invest elsewhere.
Build up CON and then STR (try to maximize these). Depending on how much you use your CHA modifier will dictate how big you should go here. A +3 is generally good enough to be very effective if you moderately use it during each session.
You've discussed the importance of increasing his various saves and weighted the value of each one individually, and arrived at the conclusion that Con saves were the most important.
And, while that is true, the conclusion that he needs to bump Constitution to achieve higher con saves ain't sound.
What if I told you he was a paladin, and had an ability that increased every single one of his saves at the same time. All six saving throws. And that it was improved by increasing his charisma score. The same stat that fuels his spellcasting.
It is like improving his dex, con, and wisdom saves all at the same time. But plus also str int and even cha twice.
So it is like adding a total of +7 to his total saves. By just increasing cha mod by 1.
And.
Yes "and". And this bonus can be applied to nearby ally's saves too.
There isn't a mechanically more sound investment for a paladin than increasing his charisma to 20 asap if saving throws are at all part of the equation.
Excellent point. You are correct. I totally blanked on the Aura of Protection. Thank you for pointing that out.
It really doesn't matter if the character does a lot of spell casting or takes lead on ability checks for CHA. Because of this class feature, maximizing CHA score surpasses the argument for any other ability score.
I retract my comment, it was based on the generic planning of ability scores and character roles, and failed to consider this class feature. The benefit of making all your non-proficient saves now have a "proficiency" equivalent modifier is huge. I still think improving CON is important at this time; but moving forward the priority should be CHA because of this class feature.
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Just looking for opinions. Still consider myself new so although I may have an opinion, some opinions are better than others. Not sure if question belongs here or in Rules and Mechanics.
Leveling up Paladin to LVL 8. Oath of Vengeance. (Long but legit backstory to that and playing Curse of Strahd.) Apparently only gives Ability Score increases. Fine. Increase STR for Divine Smite Melee Attack? Increase CHA for Paladin's limited spellcasting abilities? Or maybe DEX, well, ...just because? 🤷♂️
If you're not multiclassing, Strength is probably your best bet. Charisma is decent for the times you're not using spell slots for divine smite, but even then I'd probably boost Constitution after Strength for more HP.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Yes. Good point. Especially because my current HP sucks!
I've noticed a lot of new players don't prioritize CON... it's not really used in any skill checks and it's somewhat uncommon as a saving throw, but the fact that it determines your HP is huge. I don't think there's a single class in the game that doesn't want good CON.
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Yes. I too got stuck on the fact that it isn't often a save roll, while spacing out on its impact on HP. 🤪
Charisma. If it isn't at +5, get it there. Your aura of protection is the single best feature your class has. And that's saying something because paladin is loaded with hella good features.
I got quotes!
That is what I was originally thinking as well. But as I mentioned my HP just sucks. And in CoS that just won't fly. I have already been reduced to zero and been brought back twice, and we aren't even there yet.
That's what Lay on Hands is for, to compensate your survivability for not taking Tough (which is 2x as good as increasing con for your hp) or CON ASI. You should increase STR or CHA, it doesn't really matter which one they are equally valuable.
What were your ability scores going into the level-up?
What is your character's roles? During a session, what does your party expect you to do or take the lead on. For example, the Paladin my have limited spellcasting ability but are you also the diplomat of the group; CHA is important for persuasion, intimidation, and deception.
When doing ability score improvement, the question to ask is "Do I increase on of my power stats or do buff one of my weaknesses?"
From reading your posts, I think the answer is increase CON. It is an important stat for you as a frontline fighter but is also helps with your spellcasting. Since you can't take a Warcaster or Resilient feat the only option to help with your CON save for maintaining concentration is to have a a good CON modifier. This seems to be the clear priority.
If you plan to wear heavy armor and don't use range weapons then increasing your DEX is not a good call. Most likely you won't increase your save changes enough to avoid full damage on attacks/spells. And DEX skill checks are something you won't make as often as other ability skill checks.
Proficiency in WIS saves is huge. So even if your score is low in this ability, I would say being proficient in the save is good enough to invest elsewhere.
Build up CON and then STR (try to maximize these). Depending on how much you use your CHA modifier will dictate how big you should go here. A +3 is generally good enough to be very effective if you moderately use it during each session.
I went with CON. It was just enough, at least at this level up, to make a big difference to my survivability. My "role" has evolved into spokesperson, battle planner, and front line fighter. Nobody ever really stepped up.
You've discussed the importance of increasing his various saves and weighted the value of each one individually, and arrived at the conclusion that Con saves were the most important.
And, while that is true, the conclusion that he needs to bump Constitution to achieve higher con saves ain't sound.
What if I told you he was a paladin, and had an ability that increased every single one of his saves at the same time. All six saving throws. And that it was improved by increasing his charisma score. The same stat that fuels his spellcasting.
It is like improving his dex, con, and wisdom saves all at the same time. But plus also str int and even cha twice.
So it is like adding a total of +7 to his total saves. By just increasing cha mod by 1.
And.
Yes "and". And this bonus can be applied to nearby ally's saves too.
There isn't a mechanically more sound investment for a paladin than increasing his charisma to 20 asap if saving throws are at all part of the equation.
I got quotes!
Excellent point. You are correct. I totally blanked on the Aura of Protection. Thank you for pointing that out.
It really doesn't matter if the character does a lot of spell casting or takes lead on ability checks for CHA. Because of this class feature, maximizing CHA score surpasses the argument for any other ability score.
I retract my comment, it was based on the generic planning of ability scores and character roles, and failed to consider this class feature. The benefit of making all your non-proficient saves now have a "proficiency" equivalent modifier is huge. I still think improving CON is important at this time; but moving forward the priority should be CHA because of this class feature.