I’m going to be taking part in a one shot with level 20 characters. I’m going to be playing a conjuration wizard focusing on summoning spells. Would it be worth it to multi class 3 levels into sorcerer to get some metamagic options or would I be stronger as a solo wizard?
I’m going to be taking part in a one shot with level 20 characters. I’m going to be playing a conjuration wizard focusing on summoning spells. Would it be worth it to multi class 3 levels into sorcerer to get some metamagic options or would I be stronger as a solo wizard?
You should probably MC a few times, because there really isn't much in the way of Summoning beyond 7th level spells... so you only need to be Wizard - 14 if you want to be a Summoner.
So pick up: Fighter-2 for Action Surge so you can cast your Summoning spell and a second spell on your first round of combat, also gets you armour & shield proficiency for a disgustingly high AC. and Sorcerer-4 for some Metamagic.
Alternatively, take: Warlock - Hexblade-2 for amour, shields, Eldritch Blast, and Agonizing Blast Sorcerer-4 for some Metamagic This will let you occasionally Quicken EB for a ton of damage on your turn while also commanding your summons - e.g. Action: EB, BA: Quicken EB, Free Action: Command 8th level Aberration = 8*(1d10+4)+4*(1d8+3+8) = 138 damage.
I disagree about spell mastery and signature spell.
Spell Mastery is good for Misty Step and Shield,. The others are basically worthless by level 20. More importantly as part of a full party those spells cease to be useful at level 20. The mage tends to not be the focus of the battle. You simply do not NEED those spells that often and the 4 1st level slots and 3 2nd level are sufficient.
Signature spell is also not as good as people think. It effectively grants +2 third level spell slots and +2 third level spells prepared.
But taking three levels of Sorcerer will grant you four spells known and also 4 additional cantrips. You use those four spells known for the low level spells like Shield and Misty Step, freeing up wizard prepared spells for higher levels. It grants you 3 spell points, which are often better than two more third level slots. A subtle cast spell or a careful spell really expand your abilities. Particularly if you take the feat metamagic adept for more spellpoints.
HOWEVER. There is one more ability you get as you level up as a Wizard - learning two free spells known. This does not increase your spells prepared, but if your DM has made it difficult to learn spells, this can help you out.
I would also consider Cleric and Druid. Depening on the build the subclass abilities can help a lot.
I haven't tested this myself, but I've heard from a few people that a single level dip of Cleric for Life Domain is actually really impactful if you're a wizard. It gives you proficiency with Heavy Armor, and the Cure Wound and Bless spells always prepared. You can still upcast your Cleric spells with your high level Wizard spell slots, but now you can heal as well and those heals are juiced enough by the Life Domain to compensate for your comparatively low WIS. You don't get the big, meaty heal spells, but if nothing else you can grab Healing Word, and that's always useful to have in your back pocket in case an ally drops to zero and you just want to pop them back up until a dedicated healer can tend to them more directly.
I disagree about spell mastery and signature spell.
Spell Mastery is good for Misty Step and Shield,. The others are basically worthless by level 20. More importantly as part of a full party those spells cease to be useful at level 20. The mage tends to not be the focus of the battle. You simply do not NEED those spells that often and the 4 1st level slots and 3 2nd level are sufficient.
Signature spell is also not as good as people think. It effectively grants +2 third level spell slots and +2 third level spells prepared.
But taking three levels of Sorcerer will grant you four spells known and also 4 additional cantrips. You use those four spells known for the low level spells like Shield and Misty Step, freeing up wizard prepared spells for higher levels. It grants you 3 spell points, which are often better than two more third level slots. A subtle cast spell or a careful spell really expand your abilities. Particularly if you take the feat metamagic adept for more spellpoints.
HOWEVER. There is one more ability you get as you level up as a Wizard - learning two free spells known. This does not increase your spells prepared, but if your DM has made it difficult to learn spells, this can help you out.
I would also consider Cleric and Druid. Depening on the build the subclass abilities can help a lot.
But Spell Mastery gets you unlimited number of castings of Shield and Misty Step. With a 3 level dip into Sorcerer, you can still only cast each of those 4 times per day. Spell Mastery gets you a basically always on +5 to AC, as well as the ability to just teleport away from anyone in melee range at will.
But Spell Mastery gets you unlimited number of castings of Shield and Misty Step. With a 3 level dip into Sorcerer, you can still only cast each of those 4 times per day. Spell Mastery gets you a basically always on +5 to AC, as well as the ability to just teleport away from anyone in melee range at will.
That would be more important for a campaign. For a one-shot, a 20th level caster has so many spell slots they can cast a levelled spell and a reaction spell every turn without worrying about running out of slots. A 20th level caster has 10 slots of 3rd level or lower to use to spam Shield, Misty Step or Counterspell, plus 11 slots of 4th level or higher to use for their blast/control spells. Plus if a Wizard they can get back 10 levels of spells with a SR. That's plenty for a typical 2-3 combat one-shot.
Even for a campaign, unlimited Shields and Misty Steps is not very useful.
Keep in mind this a 20th level game where you can cast Invunerability, Scatter, Time Stop, Foresight, etc.
Honestly, if you are using more than 4 shields and 3 misty steps,, you probably should run away. Gate to a lovely little demiplane you created/found, regroup and plan a better offense.
Most combat is 3 rounds. Big Bad guys may take it to 10 rounds. But if you are still being hit consistently after the first 5 rounds, and depending on first and second level spells, it is time to run away.
Thanks for the input everyone, given me some great things to think about. I was mainly worried about what the trade off would be from losing out on the last few wizard features but it sounds like the sorcerer features are worth it.
A Cleric dip is also something really interesting I didn’t even consider, I’ll think it over but the sorcerer is still a bit more favourable to me right now.
Cleric is better if you're trying to minimize how many levels you're taking away from Wizard, since the stuff you really want from it comes online right at level 1, whereas with Sorcerer you need to spend at least 3 levels in the class to get to Metamagic. If you wanted to split the difference you could always go Divine Soul Sorcerer, which will still give you access to healing spells.
I’m going to be taking part in a one shot with level 20 characters. I’m going to be playing a conjuration wizard focusing on summoning spells. Would it be worth it to multi class 3 levels into sorcerer to get some metamagic options or would I be stronger as a solo wizard?
You should probably MC a few times, because there really isn't much in the way of Summoning beyond 7th level spells... so you only need to be Wizard - 14 if you want to be a Summoner.
So pick up:
Fighter-2 for Action Surge so you can cast your Summoning spell and a second spell on your first round of combat, also gets you armour & shield proficiency for a disgustingly high AC.
and
Sorcerer-4 for some Metamagic.
Alternatively, take:
Warlock - Hexblade-2 for amour, shields, Eldritch Blast, and Agonizing Blast
Sorcerer-4 for some Metamagic
This will let you occasionally Quicken EB for a ton of damage on your turn while also commanding your summons - e.g. Action: EB, BA: Quicken EB, Free Action: Command 8th level Aberration = 8*(1d10+4)+4*(1d8+3+8) = 138 damage.
I would caution against it. Spell Mastery and Signature Spells are pretty strong features.
Spell Mastery gets you Misty Step or Scorching Ray and Shield or Magic Missile as basically cantrips.
Signature Spells gets you a free cast of Summon Shadowspawn and Summon Fey each per short rest.
At the very most, I would dip 2 levels so you don't miss out on Spell Mastery.
I disagree about spell mastery and signature spell.
Spell Mastery is good for Misty Step and Shield,. The others are basically worthless by level 20. More importantly as part of a full party those spells cease to be useful at level 20. The mage tends to not be the focus of the battle. You simply do not NEED those spells that often and the 4 1st level slots and 3 2nd level are sufficient.
Signature spell is also not as good as people think. It effectively grants +2 third level spell slots and +2 third level spells prepared.
But taking three levels of Sorcerer will grant you four spells known and also 4 additional cantrips. You use those four spells known for the low level spells like Shield and Misty Step, freeing up wizard prepared spells for higher levels. It grants you 3 spell points, which are often better than two more third level slots. A subtle cast spell or a careful spell really expand your abilities. Particularly if you take the feat metamagic adept for more spellpoints.
HOWEVER. There is one more ability you get as you level up as a Wizard - learning two free spells known. This does not increase your spells prepared, but if your DM has made it difficult to learn spells, this can help you out.
I would also consider Cleric and Druid. Depening on the build the subclass abilities can help a lot.
I haven't tested this myself, but I've heard from a few people that a single level dip of Cleric for Life Domain is actually really impactful if you're a wizard. It gives you proficiency with Heavy Armor, and the Cure Wound and Bless spells always prepared. You can still upcast your Cleric spells with your high level Wizard spell slots, but now you can heal as well and those heals are juiced enough by the Life Domain to compensate for your comparatively low WIS. You don't get the big, meaty heal spells, but if nothing else you can grab Healing Word, and that's always useful to have in your back pocket in case an ally drops to zero and you just want to pop them back up until a dedicated healer can tend to them more directly.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
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But Spell Mastery gets you unlimited number of castings of Shield and Misty Step. With a 3 level dip into Sorcerer, you can still only cast each of those 4 times per day. Spell Mastery gets you a basically always on +5 to AC, as well as the ability to just teleport away from anyone in melee range at will.
That would be more important for a campaign. For a one-shot, a 20th level caster has so many spell slots they can cast a levelled spell and a reaction spell every turn without worrying about running out of slots. A 20th level caster has 10 slots of 3rd level or lower to use to spam Shield, Misty Step or Counterspell, plus 11 slots of 4th level or higher to use for their blast/control spells. Plus if a Wizard they can get back 10 levels of spells with a SR. That's plenty for a typical 2-3 combat one-shot.
Even for a campaign, unlimited Shields and Misty Steps is not very useful.
Keep in mind this a 20th level game where you can cast Invunerability, Scatter, Time Stop, Foresight, etc.
Honestly, if you are using more than 4 shields and 3 misty steps,, you probably should run away. Gate to a lovely little demiplane you created/found, regroup and plan a better offense.
Most combat is 3 rounds. Big Bad guys may take it to 10 rounds. But if you are still being hit consistently after the first 5 rounds, and depending on first and second level spells, it is time to run away.
Thanks for the input everyone, given me some great things to think about. I was mainly worried about what the trade off would be from losing out on the last few wizard features but it sounds like the sorcerer features are worth it.
A Cleric dip is also something really interesting I didn’t even consider, I’ll think it over but the sorcerer is still a bit more favourable to me right now.
Cleric is better if you're trying to minimize how many levels you're taking away from Wizard, since the stuff you really want from it comes online right at level 1, whereas with Sorcerer you need to spend at least 3 levels in the class to get to Metamagic. If you wanted to split the difference you could always go Divine Soul Sorcerer, which will still give you access to healing spells.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium