Jun 19, 2026: Multiclass section. Apr 30, 2026: Wizard things. Apr 11, 2026: Bard modification on new thread, grammar. Mar 29, 2026: Update list, arrangement, modifications, addendum. Dec 9, 2025: Consideration for solo play, resources, options.
Hi, welcome to the thread. Just wanna talk about some classes and how their roles may change and stuff. I dislike feeling underprepared and don't mind stuff going unused.
My bias casually playing with the same dungeon master (DM) over years makes my experience sorta unique with this game since much changes with a different DM. The first time one of my characters met their end was at 8th level in the previous 5e ruleset from 2014. We've now reached 10th level on the most updated 5e ruleset of 2024 and I like how some features may contribute to a satisfying adventure.
People say best crowd control is to quickly reduce target's hit points (HP) to zero or best defense is a strong offense and I wanna point out some DMs do that against player characters (PC). Your PC may end up relying on opponents' whims if high damage dealing allies are unconscious due to missing all their hit points; which is why I may overvalue features that prevent or reduce damage taken and/or quickly regain HP. I believe these classes should be in a group for the 5th edition ruleset of 2024 according to what I've experienced with my DM over time: 1. Barbarian 2. Cleric 3. Wizard 4. Bard 5. Paladin
0. Rage, preserve life channel divinity, buncha odd magics, spell backup and aura of protection.
Monsters will try to defeat PCs while resistances granted by barbarian's rage lower damage character takes, main thing I need you to note is that it doesn't decrease the amount of healing, so the HP of an enraged barbarian will last noticeably longer in battle compared to the HP of other allies lacking damage resistances unless PC's armor class is high enough for enemies to rarely hit or they fight beyond opponent's reach. Healing enraged HP that have appropriate damage resistances makes them withstand over double damage due to round down: 41 damage of a resisted damage type becomes 20 damage that only needs 20 healing instead of 41, which means all healing is indirectly worth more than double for a resistance. Wizard needs to get creative, really mean "need" instead of "should", procure wizard rituals from other spellbooks or scrolls, false life spell grants about 9 average temporary HP, which is a lot for 1st PC level. Bards can scout more effectively due to their expertise and jack of all trades (unless they're low on HP, if that's the case, focus on recovering), they can learn the cure wounds spell and nudge cleric to concentrate on the beacon of hope spell. If there's room for another PC, a paladin's aura of protection and their possible concentration on the bless spell may shore up some PCs saving throws. This setup can be low on damage output, but may endure long enough to conquer challenges.
Build recommendations using player's handbook 2024 and forgotten realms: heroes of faerûn while attempting organized play compatibility:
1. Aasimar species
15+2=17 strength with ice fisher (background), alert (origin feat), path of the wild heart (subclass) bear rage of the wilds for more damage resistances (effective double healing efficiency for resisted damage types) combined with aasimar's, great weapon master (general feat) 17+1=18 strength; if going to experience 9th PC level, there's polearm master (general feat) 18+1=19 strength at 8th to try brutal strike with bonus action provided by the feat since it would deal lower damage on a hit anyway; if playing 14th with lion power of the wilds, an option is sentinel (general feat) 19+1=20 strength at 12th for unarmed strike halt when holding reach weapon; +2 constitution for 16th since PC should already have 20 strength-increase strength if that's not the case; recovery (epic boon) to regain half max HP once per long rest if 11th level's relentless rage fails (greater constitution improves odds of it working + increases max HP), check with DM if you're allowed to use epic boon's d10s outside combat so you attack more with polearm master instead of using bonus action to self-heal, if you can only use them in combat, start off with heavy 2d6 weapon until you spend them all, then switch to heavy reach d10 weapon.
My modification: Mage slayer (general feat) at 16th level or earlier may function like a short rest legendary resistance for a int/wis/cha save which the character prolly ain't very good at, also gives disadvantage to concentration checks for whoever the character damages. This would get in the way of playing a more flawed character cuz they'd have a way to get out of a bind, they'd also have less HP and be 5% less likely to succeed at their 11th level feature, but if you already never use it or the bump to max HP is of less concern than those saves, mage slayer should be solid. Watch out if you spend the thing and then someone manages to control the character in your stead to attack allies since it would be harder for them to maintain concentration.
2. Ever since the total party kill (TPK) to fireball spam at 10th PC level on 2014 rules
I kinda like having fire resistance on my PCs which also work against allies' fireballs, so a high wisdom fire resistant dragonborn species suits me here; they can also unlock fly speed upon leveling like aasimar. Alert (origin feat), protector divine order, life domain (subclass), war caster (general feat) to improve concentration, potent spellcasting, resilient constitution (general feat) to improve concentration, maybe tough (origin feat) before desperate resilience (epic boon). Concentration bless, calm emotions, spirit guardians, beacon of hope, circle of power, conjure celestial, etc. Consider healing word, dispel magic, heal, mass heal.
My modification: Context: Enemy emanated heavy obscurement, coulda been a less than ideal situation to rely on spells that require user to see target. Nobody had the see invisibility spell and even then the heavy obscurement wasn't even invisibility, twas a frost typa thing modified from a sand monster or something so it prolly woulda jammed truesight as well. I personally haven't had the privilege of one of my characters casting the conjure celestial spell, but it relies on seeing targets. My workaround considering we also woulda enjoyed wi-fi healing beyond total cover during the fight is ritual caster (general feat) find familiar bat for: blindsight, their reaction touch spell like cure wounds up to 100 feet, maybe swap initiative through origin feat; buff them with (upcasted 5th level aid,) death ward, maybe sanctuary spells and inspiring leader (general feat) so character may get a chance to snap them out of combat if needed. Therefore: 12th level ritual caster find familiar bat, 13th level prepare conjure celestial, 16th level inspiring leader.
3. The feeblest HP of all
high intelligence human species for tough besides alert (origin feats), abjurer (subclass), war caster (general feat) to improve concentration, resilient constitution (general feat) to improve concentration, intelligence as high as possible, desperate resilience (epic boon). False life (spell) for low level PC with blade ward (cantrip), mage armor and shield (spells) may be postponed and acquired through 3rd PC level abjuration savant, see invisibility, rope trick, darkvision, fireball, phantom steed, mordenkainen's faithful hound spell scrolls, dimension door, tasha's bubbling cauldron, contingency otiluke's resilient sphere, finger of death, teleport, mind blank, prismatic wall, wish, concentration witch bolt, cloud of daggers, spider climb spell scroll, fly, slow, polymorph, wall of force, circle of power, shapechange, signature spells fly, slow. Counterspell and dispel magic are always prepared at 10th abjurer level. Look for spell scrolls.
120 feet darkvision, higher HP, resistance to poison traps, at least 15+0=15 charisma, stuff from life domain cleric + abjurer wizard (research the subclasses to support them like counterspell enemy's counterspell, upcast cure wounds while concentrating on beacon of hope, dimension door ally across wall of force, concentrate on fly so wizard may concentrate on something else depending on situation, etc), alert (origin feat) to reposition when ambushed while scouting close enough for party to effectively join combat, college of lore (subclass) for magical discoveries they really make a difference (chill touch, counterspell, aura of life, etc), war caster (general feat) to improve concentration, resilient constitution (general feat) to improve concentration, charisma as high as possible, desperate resilience (epic boon). Consider conjure woodland beings (spell), expertise perception, sleight of hand, acrobatics, investigation, proficiency arcana, stealth, survival, insight, thieves' tools (from background).
alert (origin feat), blind fighting (fighting style) to overcome lack of sight (blindness, invisibility, etc), oath of devotion (subclass) to protect against the charmed condition (there's also the mind blank 8th level spell and the calm emotions concentration spell to protect against it) + get charisma modifier bonus to hit with melee sacred weapon channel divinity, war caster (general feat), charisma as high as possible (ideally 20 charisma at 12th PC level) try getting wizard or bard to share potion of hill giant strength from tasha's bubbling cauldron (spell) near 11th PC level, purple dragon commandant (general feat) at 16th PC level, desperate resilience (epic boon).
Optional celestial patron warlock
fire dragonborn for the resistance ^-^ faced level-adjusted lava with fireballs at 8th PC level in 2025 without warning and every ally survived, flying above lava without concentration is useful, can use pact magic to upcast cure wounds, aid (spells), and access a feature similar to inspiring leader (general feat) at 10th level called celestial resilience. I would prefer another dwarf bard to switch scouting when at low HP, plus they could use bardic inspiration on each other, making d20 tests even more feasible. Eldritch invocations, if keeping warlock, are pact of the blade, agonizing eldritch blast, lessons of the first ones purple dragon rook needed for 16th level general feat, thirsting blade, eldritch smite, lifedrinker, devouring blade, witch sight, pact of the tome acid splash mage hand starry wisp find familiar tenser's floating disk, gift of the protectors, spells like armor of agathys, hex, tasha's hideous laughter, fly, dispel magic, dimension door, synaptic static, tasha's bubbling cauldron, foresight with rashemi wanderer (background) 15+2=17 charisma tough (origin feat), spell sniper 17+1=18 charisma at 4th PC level, great weapon master at 8th, 18+2=20 charisma at 12th, purple dragon commandant at 16th using lessons of the first ones eldritch invocation, desperate resilience (epic boon). Remember 13 strength for heavy melee weapons and 13 dexterity for heavy ranged weapons.
Consideration for solo play: There is strength in numbers. Hire trustworthy adventurers (non-playable characters) to back you up on your journey if possible. You may also be able to lure a conflict into a stronger force that will fight them.
Multiclass if allowed using player's handbook (2024 / 5.5) and forgotten realms: heroes of faerûn
Tank: 3 levels barbarian path of the wild heart, 16 levels paladin oath of devotion, final level barbarian for a second epic boon.
Healer: 19 levels life domain cleric, final level wizard.
Controller: 19 levels abjurer wizard, final level cleric.
Specialist: 19 levels bard college of lore, final level cleric.
Downside is they become weaker in some areas although a little more equipped in others. All of them may have 13 dexterity as well as martial weapon proficiency with cleric's protector divine order to use 150 feet range longbow without disadvantage, 150 feet happens to be the range of the darkvision provided by the darkvision spell that can be mastered by an 18th level wizard. It would take more expensive character options to achieve that kind of accuracy and range, although 13 dexterity 150 feet longbow is not a very good option, it could be used as a tactical distraction, hit an object to send a signal, or something else without magic in case there's antimagic at play, just need two free hands and ammunition. For mobility, there's phantom steed and find steed with mounted combatant general feat that could bump a 12 wisdom to a 13 at 16th character level to allow the cleric multiclass for wizard and bard, also increase cleric's 19 wisdom to 20 although they can't summon a mount by themselves unless other rules are at play, maybe can procure one in other ways such as having capable allies. Tenser's floating disk might be interesting outdoors where it may not get trapped by wall configurations, wizard mastering it could have hundreds active (if DM allows) for transporting a bunch of people or stuff on very large, well maintained roads if they don't want to use other spells, maybe they're a simulacrum.
Barbarian Paladin
Aasimar species; genie touched background magic initiate wizard (charisma, chill touch, mind sliver, tenser's floating disk) origin feat; 14 or 13 strength, 13 dexterity, 14 constitution, 8 intelligence, 8 or 10 wisdom, 17 charisma; 3 levels barbarian path of the wild heart athletics, survival, animal handling, bear rage of the wilds; multiclass 16 levels paladin oath of devotion, blind fighting fighting style, 18 charisma inspiring leader general feat, 20 charisma ability score improvement general feat, 14 strength (or dexterity if already have 14 or more strength) mounted combatant general feat, 15 strength irresistible offense epic boon; final level multiclass barbarian after 3 levels of barbarian and 16 levels of paladin for a total of 4 barbarian levels 16 strength desperate resilience epic boon since eventually becoming incapacitated removes rage the resistances of the epic boon become relevant and allow spellcasting with 20 charisma while not raging.
Cleric Wizard
Fire resistant dragonborn species (experienced deadly fire damage at 8th and 10th levels so far); guard background for alert origin feat to later use with initiative of find familiar bat with blindsight so heavy obscurement from fog cloud or some creature's trait doesn't hinder spells such as conjure celestial (find familiar also allows stuff like cure wounds beyond total cover and cure wounds has decent upcast scaling with the beacon of hope spell); 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 13 dexterity, 14 constitution, 13 intelligence, 17 wisdom, 8 charisma; 19 levels life domain cleric medicine, insight skills, guidance, sacred flame (counter zombie's undead fortitude), spare the dying cantrips, protector divine order but consider sticking to medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; 18 wisdom war caster general feat; potent spellcasting divine strikes that upgrade to providing temporary hit points on damage; 15 constitution resilient constitution general feat; 19 wisdom ritual caster (find familiar, tenser's floating disk, etc) general feat; 20 wisdom mounted combatant general feat; 16 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level wizard for shield spell etc and remove temptation of making divine intervention unavailable for days when you may need it the next day and won't know until it happens.
Wizard Cleric
Human species tough origin feat, perception skill; criminal background; 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 14 dexterity, 14 constitution, 17 intelligence, 12 wisdom, 8 charisma; 19 levels abjurer wizard arcana, investigation skills; expertise arcana; 18 intelligence war caster general feat; 15 constitution resilient constitution general feat; 20 intelligence ability score improvement general feat; 13 wisdom mounted combatant general feat; tenser's floating disk and darkvision spell masteries; 16 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level cleric guidance cantrip, consider preparing healing word for emergency, cure wounds that upcasts better with someone else's beacon of hope, protector divine order maybe equip medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; possible spellbook progression with abjuration savant mage armor, shield, remove curse, otiluke's resilient sphere, circle of power, spell breaker reminder counterspell and dispel magic always prepared, contingency, (7th level or lower abjuration), mind blank, prismatic wall: false life, witch bolt, fog cloud, feather fall, find familiar, detect magic, tenser's floating disk, comprehend languages, rope trick, see invisibility, misty step, cloud of daggers, leomund's tiny hut, slow, fly, water breathing (prepare it to cast with an action if multiple allies rely on it deep underwater in case something like dispel magic removes the effect early), polymorph, dimension door, fire shield, identify, wall of force, bigby's hand, rary's telepathic bond, gentle repose (prepare it if you can combine it with a cleric's divine intervention or the wish spell casting revivify so target bypasses the need of 4 long rests to fully remove the ordeal of coming back from the dead), disintegrate, tasha's bubbling cauldron, true seeing, haste, mordenkainen's magnificent mansion, finger of death, teleport, plane shift, antimagic field, maze, phantom steed (prepare it so even if missing every spellbook may cast it and make use of the mounted combatant general feat, consider casting the haste spell on the phantom steed if the situation seems appropriate), power word stun, wish, shapechange, darkvision (for spell mastery if spellbook doesn't have it, consider buffing every ally including phantom steed with it), true polymorph, yolande's regal presence (may go well with armor and shield proficiencies from next level's cleric multiclass), meteor swarm.
Bard Cleric
Dwarf species (poison trap resistance, 120 feet nonmagical darkvision, increased HP); criminal background for thieves' tools tool proficiency and alert origin feat for same reasons as cleric wizard; 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 14 dexterity, 16 constitution, 8 intelligence, 12 wisdom, 15 charisma; 19 levels bard college of lore arcana (for spell scroll crafting, make lots of healing word spell scrolls to swap the preparation and then prepare it again through cleric multiclass), perception, investigation skills, starry wisp (counter zombie's undead fortitude), vicious mockery cantrips, expertise perception and sleight of hand, get acrobatics, survival, insight skills bonus proficiencies from subclass, 16 charisma war caster general feat, 17 constitution resilient constitution general feat, expertise acrobatics and investigation skills, 18 charisma ability score improvement general feat, 13 wisdom mounted combatant general feat, 18 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level cleric guidance cantrip, prepare healing word, detect magic, protector divine order maybe equip medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; possible spell preparations unseen servant, healing word, heroism, faerie fire; detect magic; swap heroism with calm emotions and see invisibility; mage hand (fill in for unseen servant) and swap unseen servant with cloud of daggers and cure wounds; leomund's tiny hut and swap detect magic with dispel magic and hypnotic pattern; detect magic, counterspell magical discovery and another magical discovery; swap faerie fire with polymorph and dimension door; keep counterspell and swap the other magical discovery with fire shield then swap detect magic with aid and freedom of movement; yolande's regal presence, detect magic; swap hypnotic pattern with circle of power and beacon of hope; swap freedom of movement with heal and tasha's bubbling cauldron; swap counterspell magical discovery with find familiar and swap cloud of daggers with counterspell; swap see invisibility with conjure celestial and death ward; swap fire shield magical discovery with chill touch (combo subclass peerless skill) and swap polymorph with fly; swap leomund's tiny hut with mind blank and antimagic field; swap chill touch magical discovery with haste and swap calm emotions with phantom steed; swap detect magic with wish and prismatic wall; swap haste magical discovery with chill touch and swap yolande's regal presence with haste and spirit guardians (works without sight unlike yolande's regal presence); swap find familiar magical discovery with tenser's floating disk and swap healing word with find familiar and shield.
Addendum: Some say that, while cooperation is encouraged, the 2024 rules acknowledge that player agency is paramount, and if a character decides not to help ally survive death saves, it's a decision with consequences. Build rapport and expect others to do what they want, which may not be what the group needs short term.
Barbarians are not as good as tanks as you think. The main downside is the lower AC compounded by advantagebto attack them. This means they take more damage, eat more riders and require more resources to heal. The one advantagebthey have is damage making them an easy target but resistance and hp are worse survival.mechanics than AC.
You see AC is the only one that gets better the more you have. So combining Armor, Shield, Fighting Style plus spells can make you better at survival than any Barb. What you need is damage to keep the monsters attention, something like grappling, smites or control options.
That was really long to read, and I will admit I didn’t, but I have to take issue with one of your early statements. The best crowd control isn’t taking opponents hp, it’s taking their action economy. Fireball is great for hurting lots of enemies at once, but they still will all be standing afterwards. Hypnotic pattern, however, is basically pressing the “we win” button. If an enemy doesn’t have ranged attacks, levitate is possibly the best 2nd level spell to use on them. Banishment, hold monster, monk’s stunning strike, etc. Even pausing their attacks for one round can give you enough room to turn the fight.
For solo play I think fighters are fine. Some self-heals to keep moving and a lot more available in 2024. An Eldritch knight can add Arcane Recovery. About half as much healing available as a paladin at 6th when comparing Second wind versus lay on hands. High AC+ shield. More feats or ASI to help.
You say solo then mention "if cleric doesn't get it." Solo characters will absolutely survive at the whim of a DM because any single character can be super easily countered. It is impossible to create a character a DM cannot kill. If your DM spams fireballs at you, next time they will spam lightning bolts. Or Hold Person.
Non-solo characters should meet a party goal. It's hard to beat a martial (fighter/barb/pally), caster (Wizard/sorc/bard), cleric/druid, and skill (Rogue/bard/maybe ranger) party.
@Taenx If AC can reliably block opponent's bonus to hit they likely have lower AC, HP and won't pose much of a threat in a deadly encounter which a creature may be expected to hit 25 AC with disadvantage and take over a third of character's HP without scoring a critical hit.
@Xalthu True, zero HP usually prevents creature from taking actions in the 2024 ruleset.
@Burgen_Badluk; @Tigero Good insight, I admit I have little experience playing without a team. The more we play the more we learn when a fight is winnable or not and the group back then did not fully understand some battles were too heavily stacked against characters, including the DM.
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My current first choice for a Faerûn adventurer:
Aasimar, Genie Touched Tenser's Floating Disk Chill Touch Mind Sliver, Barbarian, 17 CHA, 14 or 13 STR, Path of the Wild Heart Bear, LV4 Multiclass Paladin, Blind Fighting, Oath of Devotion, LV7 Paladin 4 Inspiring Leader 18 CHA, LV11 Paladin 8 Ability Score Improvement 20 CHA, LV15 Paladin 12 Mounted Combatant, LV19 Paladin 16 Boon of Irresistible Offense 15 STR, LV20 Multiclass Barbarian 4 Boon of Desperate Resilience 16 STR. Info
That was really long to read, and I will admit I didn’t, but I have to take issue with one of your early statements. The best crowd control isn’t taking opponents hp, it’s taking their action economy. Fireball is great for hurting lots of enemies at once, but they still will all be standing afterwards. Hypnotic pattern, however, is basically pressing the “we win” button. If an enemy doesn’t have ranged attacks, levitate is possibly the best 2nd level spell to use on them. Banishment, hold monster, monk’s stunning strike, etc. Even pausing their attacks for one round can give you enough room to turn the fight.
Hypnotic Pattern really is overpowered, at least in multi-target fights. Psychic Scream is also a good crowd-control spell. 9th-level fireball that requires an int save and stuns for a minute.
Hi, before replying I wish everyone a happy thanksgiving prep for the upcoming day after tomorrow (my country doesn't celebrate) :3
@Taenx I did an experiment on my own after a particularly difficult encounter I felt the DM let us win so they could crush us on a harder fight later on. It was 'how many rounds my ideal character at the time would survive using AC against a heavy hitting enemy' and I disliked the result after 1v1 them on a white room exchanging blows as both creatures. I didn't register scientific data, but got the feeling AC wasn't what I was looking for to deal with heavy hitter types. AC will be a lot more useful against multiple light hitters that have less chance to hit and, when they do, damage isn't very much. DM often uses 3rd party creatures that aren't in the Monster Manual and, as one of the results, I get less chances to review and experiment after a battle. They change creature appearance and name, maybe to discourage people from looking up weaknesses on the spot, which I don't think happens in our group and, if it did, the guy hasn't been showing up to play.
We broke a new group record last Sunday! We reached 9th character level with zero deaths for the first time ever after playing casually for years and I count that as a win, no matter how small that may seem x) DM says it's them vs the players, 'stakes aren't high enough otherwise'. We may get an average of two combat encounters every session. I'm aware there are groups that go multiple sessions with zero combat encounters and some won't play if their character's life isn't protected by the DM. I enjoy the challenge.
Barbarians are excellent melee dps, but they suffer from being melee, they just don't have good ranged options and, while it's not as pronounced as 2014, kiting still wins a lot of battles.
Hi, happy easter prep, true, mobility and range are amazing until DM counters them. Updated topic with stuff including format. Hope your rolls are amazing when it counts :D
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My current first choice for a Faerûn adventurer:
Aasimar, Genie Touched Tenser's Floating Disk Chill Touch Mind Sliver, Barbarian, 17 CHA, 14 or 13 STR, Path of the Wild Heart Bear, LV4 Multiclass Paladin, Blind Fighting, Oath of Devotion, LV7 Paladin 4 Inspiring Leader 18 CHA, LV11 Paladin 8 Ability Score Improvement 20 CHA, LV15 Paladin 12 Mounted Combatant, LV19 Paladin 16 Boon of Irresistible Offense 15 STR, LV20 Multiclass Barbarian 4 Boon of Desperate Resilience 16 STR. Info
If I'm going to be honest, a spell caster (Particularly a Diviner Wizard) can wreak havoc on many monsters quite easily. Because of your large amount of versatility, and the fact that you can create tank wizards.
That's true and hi everyone, hope you've been well \o/ Multiclass and previous updates on the topic. My current favorite character builds for the group roles of fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue are multiclasses (one of my DMs is super against multiclassing):
F: 3 levels barbarian path of the wild heart, 16 levels paladin oath of devotion, final level barbarian for a second epic boon.
C: 19 levels life domain cleric, final level wizard.
W: 19 levels abjurer wizard, final level cleric.
R: 19 levels bard college of lore, final level cleric.
Downside is they become weaker in some areas although a little more equipped in others. All of them may have 13 dexterity as well as martial weapon proficiency with cleric's protector divine order to use 150 feet range longbow without disadvantage, 150 feet happens to be the range of the darkvision provided by the darkvision spell that can be mastered by an 18th level wizard. It would take more expensive character options to achieve that kind of accuracy and range, although 13 dexterity 150 feet longbow is not a very good option, it could be used as a tactical distraction, hit an object to send a signal, or something else without magic in case there's antimagic at play, just need two free hands and ammunition. For mobility, there's phantom steed and find steed with mounted combatant general feat that could bump a 12 wisdom to a 13 at 16th character level to allow the cleric multiclass for wizard and bard, also increase cleric's 19 wisdom to 20 although they can't summon a mount by themselves unless other rules are at play, maybe can procure one in other ways such as having capable allies. Tenser's floating disk might be interesting outdoors where it may not get trapped by wall configurations, wizard mastering it could have hundreds active (if DM allows) for transporting a bunch of people or stuff on very large, well maintained roads if they don't want to use other spells, maybe they're a simulacrum. Several changes to spell progression such as bard preparing beacon of hope at 10th class level due to it being more mobile than rope trick on average; paladin getting inspiring leader at 4th class level, 7th character level while also having genie touched background for magic initiate wizard charisma origin feat to learn tenser's floating disk, chill touch, mind sliver; basically a rework of every character with multiple changes. Everything is both here and at the topic right now. Thanks for reading :)
Going for adventurer's league organized play compatibility so player's handbook (2024 / 5.5) and forgotten realms: heroes of faerûn. Please check available options with DM and make your changes :3
Barbarian Paladin
Aasimar species; genie touched background magic initiate wizard (charisma, chill touch, mind sliver, tenser's floating disk) origin feat; 14 or 13 strength, 13 dexterity, 14 constitution, 8 intelligence, 8 or 10 wisdom, 17 charisma; 3 levels barbarian path of the wild heart athletics, survival, animal handling, bear rage of the wilds; multiclass 16 levels paladin oath of devotion, blind fighting fighting style, 18 charisma inspiring leader general feat, 20 charisma ability score improvement general feat, 14 strength (or dexterity if already have 14 or more strength) mounted combatant general feat, 15 strength irresistible offense epic boon; final level multiclass barbarian after 3 levels of barbarian and 16 levels of paladin for a total of 4 barbarian levels 16 strength desperate resilience epic boon since eventually becoming incapacitated removes rage the resistances of the epic boon become relevant and allow spellcasting with 20 charisma while not raging.
Cleric Wizard
Fire resistant dragonborn species (experienced deadly fire damage at 8th and 10th levels so far); guard background for alert origin feat to later use with initiative of find familiar bat with blindsight so heavy obscurement from fog cloud or some creature's trait doesn't hinder spells such as conjure celestial (find familiar also allows stuff like cure wounds beyond total cover and cure wounds has decent upcast scaling with the beacon of hope spell); 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 13 dexterity, 14 constitution, 13 intelligence, 17 wisdom, 8 charisma; 19 levels life domain cleric medicine, insight skills, guidance, sacred flame (counter zombie's undead fortitude), spare the dying cantrips, protector divine order but consider sticking to medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; 18 wisdom war caster general feat; potent spellcasting divine strikes that upgrade to providing temporary hit points on damage; 15 constitution resilient constitution general feat; 19 wisdom ritual caster (find familiar, tenser's floating disk, etc) general feat; 20 wisdom mounted combatant general feat; 16 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level wizard for shield spell etc and remove temptation of making divine intervention unavailable for days when you may need it the next day and won't know until it happens.
Wizard Cleric
Human species tough origin feat, perception skill; criminal background; 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 14 dexterity, 14 constitution, 17 intelligence, 12 wisdom, 8 charisma; 19 levels abjurer wizard arcana, investigation skills; expertise arcana; 18 intelligence war caster general feat; 15 constitution resilient constitution general feat; 20 intelligence ability score improvement general feat; 13 wisdom mounted combatant general feat; tenser's floating disk and darkvision spell masteries; 16 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level cleric guidance cantrip, consider preparing healing word for emergency, cure wounds that upcasts better with someone else's beacon of hope, protector divine order maybe equip medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; possible spellbook progression with abjuration savant mage armor, shield, remove curse, otiluke's resilient sphere, circle of power, spell breaker reminder counterspell and dispel magic always prepared, contingency, (7th level or lower abjuration), mind blank, prismatic wall: false life, witch bolt, fog cloud, feather fall, find familiar, detect magic, tenser's floating disk, comprehend languages, rope trick, see invisibility, misty step, cloud of daggers, leomund's tiny hut, slow, fly, water breathing (prepare it to cast with an action if multiple allies rely on it deep underwater in case something like dispel magic removes the effect early), polymorph, dimension door, fire shield, identify, wall of force, bigby's hand, rary's telepathic bond, gentle repose (prepare it if you can combine it with a cleric's divine intervention or the wish spell casting revivify so target bypasses the need of 4 long rests to fully remove the ordeal of coming back from the dead), disintegrate, tasha's bubbling cauldron, true seeing, haste, mordenkainen's magnificent mansion, finger of death, teleport, plane shift, antimagic field, maze, phantom steed (prepare it so even if missing every spellbook may cast it and make use of the mounted combatant general feat, consider casting the haste spell on the phantom steed if the situation seems appropriate), power word stun, wish, shapechange, darkvision (for spell mastery if spellbook doesn't have it, consider buffing every ally including phantom steed with it), true polymorph, yolande's regal presence (may go well with armor and shield proficiencies from next level's cleric multiclass), meteor swarm.
Bard Cleric
Dwarf species (poison trap resistance, 120 feet nonmagical darkvision, increased HP); criminal background for thieves' tools tool proficiency and alert origin feat for same reasons as cleric wizard; 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 14 dexterity, 16 constitution, 8 intelligence, 12 wisdom, 15 charisma; 19 levels bard college of lore arcana (for spell scroll crafting, make lots of healing word spell scrolls to swap the preparation and then prepare it again through cleric multiclass), perception, investigation skills, starry wisp (counter zombie's undead fortitude), vicious mockery cantrips, expertise perception and sleight of hand, get acrobatics, survival, insight skills bonus proficiencies from subclass, 16 charisma war caster general feat, 17 constitution resilient constitution general feat, expertise acrobatics and investigation skills, 18 charisma ability score improvement general feat, 13 wisdom mounted combatant general feat, 18 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level cleric guidance cantrip, prepare healing word, detect magic, protector divine order maybe equip medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; possible spell preparations unseen servant, healing word, heroism, faerie fire; detect magic; swap heroism with calm emotions and see invisibility; mage hand (fill in for unseen servant) and swap unseen servant with cloud of daggers and cure wounds; leomund's tiny hut and swap detect magic with dispel magic and hypnotic pattern; detect magic, counterspell magical discovery and another magical discovery; swap faerie fire with polymorph and dimension door; keep counterspell and swap the other magical discovery with fire shield then swap detect magic with aid and freedom of movement; yolande's regal presence, detect magic; swap hypnotic pattern with circle of power and beacon of hope; swap freedom of movement with heal and tasha's bubbling cauldron; swap counterspell magical discovery with find familiar and swap cloud of daggers with counterspell; swap see invisibility with conjure celestial and death ward; swap fire shield magical discovery with chill touch (combo subclass peerless skill) and swap polymorph with fly; swap leomund's tiny hut with mind blank and antimagic field; swap chill touch magical discovery with haste and swap calm emotions with phantom steed; swap detect magic with wish and prismatic wall; swap haste magical discovery with chill touch and swap yolande's regal presence with haste and spirit guardians (works without sight unlike yolande's regal presence); swap find familiar magical discovery with tenser's floating disk and swap healing word with find familiar and shield.
Updates
Jun 19, 2026: Multiclass section.
Apr 30, 2026: Wizard things.
Apr 11, 2026: Bard modification on new thread, grammar.
Mar 29, 2026: Update list, arrangement, modifications, addendum.
Dec 9, 2025: Consideration for solo play, resources, options.
Hi, welcome to the thread. Just wanna talk about some classes and how their roles may change and stuff. I dislike feeling underprepared and don't mind stuff going unused.
My bias casually playing with the same dungeon master (DM) over years makes my experience sorta unique with this game since much changes with a different DM. The first time one of my characters met their end was at 8th level in the previous 5e ruleset from 2014. We've now reached 10th level on the most updated 5e ruleset of 2024 and I like how some features may contribute to a satisfying adventure.
People say best crowd control is to quickly reduce target's hit points (HP) to zero or best defense is a strong offense and I wanna point out some DMs do that against player characters (PC). Your PC may end up relying on opponents' whims if high damage dealing allies are unconscious due to missing all their hit points; which is why I may overvalue features that prevent or reduce damage taken and/or quickly regain HP. I believe these classes should be in a group for the 5th edition ruleset of 2024 according to what I've experienced with my DM over time:
1. Barbarian
2. Cleric
3. Wizard
4. Bard
5. Paladin
0. Rage, preserve life channel divinity, buncha odd magics, spell backup and aura of protection.
Monsters will try to defeat PCs while resistances granted by barbarian's rage lower damage character takes, main thing I need you to note is that it doesn't decrease the amount of healing, so the HP of an enraged barbarian will last noticeably longer in battle compared to the HP of other allies lacking damage resistances unless PC's armor class is high enough for enemies to rarely hit or they fight beyond opponent's reach. Healing enraged HP that have appropriate damage resistances makes them withstand over double damage due to round down: 41 damage of a resisted damage type becomes 20 damage that only needs 20 healing instead of 41, which means all healing is indirectly worth more than double for a resistance. Wizard needs to get creative, really mean "need" instead of "should", procure wizard rituals from other spellbooks or scrolls, false life spell grants about 9 average temporary HP, which is a lot for 1st PC level. Bards can scout more effectively due to their expertise and jack of all trades (unless they're low on HP, if that's the case, focus on recovering), they can learn the cure wounds spell and nudge cleric to concentrate on the beacon of hope spell. If there's room for another PC, a paladin's aura of protection and their possible concentration on the bless spell may shore up some PCs saving throws. This setup can be low on damage output, but may endure long enough to conquer challenges.
Build recommendations using player's handbook 2024 and forgotten realms: heroes of faerûn while attempting organized play compatibility:
1. Aasimar species
15+2=17 strength with ice fisher (background), alert (origin feat), path of the wild heart (subclass) bear rage of the wilds for more damage resistances (effective double healing efficiency for resisted damage types) combined with aasimar's, great weapon master (general feat) 17+1=18 strength; if going to experience 9th PC level, there's polearm master (general feat) 18+1=19 strength at 8th to try brutal strike with bonus action provided by the feat since it would deal lower damage on a hit anyway; if playing 14th with lion power of the wilds, an option is sentinel (general feat) 19+1=20 strength at 12th for unarmed strike halt when holding reach weapon; +2 constitution for 16th since PC should already have 20 strength-increase strength if that's not the case; recovery (epic boon) to regain half max HP once per long rest if 11th level's relentless rage fails (greater constitution improves odds of it working + increases max HP), check with DM if you're allowed to use epic boon's d10s outside combat so you attack more with polearm master instead of using bonus action to self-heal, if you can only use them in combat, start off with heavy 2d6 weapon until you spend them all, then switch to heavy reach d10 weapon.
My modification: Mage slayer (general feat) at 16th level or earlier may function like a short rest legendary resistance for a int/wis/cha save which the character prolly ain't very good at, also gives disadvantage to concentration checks for whoever the character damages. This would get in the way of playing a more flawed character cuz they'd have a way to get out of a bind, they'd also have less HP and be 5% less likely to succeed at their 11th level feature, but if you already never use it or the bump to max HP is of less concern than those saves, mage slayer should be solid. Watch out if you spend the thing and then someone manages to control the character in your stead to attack allies since it would be harder for them to maintain concentration.
2. Ever since the total party kill (TPK) to fireball spam at 10th PC level on 2014 rules
I kinda like having fire resistance on my PCs which also work against allies' fireballs, so a high wisdom fire resistant dragonborn species suits me here; they can also unlock fly speed upon leveling like aasimar. Alert (origin feat), protector divine order, life domain (subclass), war caster (general feat) to improve concentration, potent spellcasting, resilient constitution (general feat) to improve concentration, maybe tough (origin feat) before desperate resilience (epic boon). Concentration bless, calm emotions, spirit guardians, beacon of hope, circle of power, conjure celestial, etc. Consider healing word, dispel magic, heal, mass heal.
My modification: Context: Enemy emanated heavy obscurement, coulda been a less than ideal situation to rely on spells that require user to see target. Nobody had the see invisibility spell and even then the heavy obscurement wasn't even invisibility, twas a frost typa thing modified from a sand monster or something so it prolly woulda jammed truesight as well. I personally haven't had the privilege of one of my characters casting the conjure celestial spell, but it relies on seeing targets. My workaround considering we also woulda enjoyed wi-fi healing beyond total cover during the fight is ritual caster (general feat) find familiar bat for: blindsight, their reaction touch spell like cure wounds up to 100 feet, maybe swap initiative through origin feat; buff them with (upcasted 5th level aid,) death ward, maybe sanctuary spells and inspiring leader (general feat) so character may get a chance to snap them out of combat if needed. Therefore: 12th level ritual caster find familiar bat, 13th level prepare conjure celestial, 16th level inspiring leader.
3. The feeblest HP of all
high intelligence human species for tough besides alert (origin feats), abjurer (subclass), war caster (general feat) to improve concentration, resilient constitution (general feat) to improve concentration, intelligence as high as possible, desperate resilience (epic boon). False life (spell) for low level PC with blade ward (cantrip), mage armor and shield (spells) may be postponed and acquired through 3rd PC level abjuration savant, see invisibility, rope trick, darkvision, fireball, phantom steed, mordenkainen's faithful hound spell scrolls, dimension door, tasha's bubbling cauldron, contingency otiluke's resilient sphere, finger of death, teleport, mind blank, prismatic wall, wish, concentration witch bolt, cloud of daggers, spider climb spell scroll, fly, slow, polymorph, wall of force, circle of power, shapechange, signature spells fly, slow. Counterspell and dispel magic are always prepared at 10th abjurer level. Look for spell scrolls.
My modification: Kinda lenghty, made another thread: Abjurer Theory 2024 https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/wizard/239270
4. Dwarf species
120 feet darkvision, higher HP, resistance to poison traps, at least 15+0=15 charisma, stuff from life domain cleric + abjurer wizard (research the subclasses to support them like counterspell enemy's counterspell, upcast cure wounds while concentrating on beacon of hope, dimension door ally across wall of force, concentrate on fly so wizard may concentrate on something else depending on situation, etc), alert (origin feat) to reposition when ambushed while scouting close enough for party to effectively join combat, college of lore (subclass) for magical discoveries they really make a difference (chill touch, counterspell, aura of life, etc), war caster (general feat) to improve concentration, resilient constitution (general feat) to improve concentration, charisma as high as possible, desperate resilience (epic boon). Consider conjure woodland beings (spell), expertise perception, sleight of hand, acrobatics, investigation, proficiency arcana, stealth, survival, insight, thieves' tools (from background).
My modification: Got way too big and specific became new thread Hard to play easy to dismiss in 2024 rules: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/bard/238567
5. High charisma fire dragonborn species
alert (origin feat), blind fighting (fighting style) to overcome lack of sight (blindness, invisibility, etc), oath of devotion (subclass) to protect against the charmed condition (there's also the mind blank 8th level spell and the calm emotions concentration spell to protect against it) + get charisma modifier bonus to hit with melee sacred weapon channel divinity, war caster (general feat), charisma as high as possible (ideally 20 charisma at 12th PC level) try getting wizard or bard to share potion of hill giant strength from tasha's bubbling cauldron (spell) near 11th PC level, purple dragon commandant (general feat) at 16th PC level, desperate resilience (epic boon).
Optional celestial patron warlock
fire dragonborn for the resistance ^-^ faced level-adjusted lava with fireballs at 8th PC level in 2025 without warning and every ally survived, flying above lava without concentration is useful, can use pact magic to upcast cure wounds, aid (spells), and access a feature similar to inspiring leader (general feat) at 10th level called celestial resilience. I would prefer another dwarf bard to switch scouting when at low HP, plus they could use bardic inspiration on each other, making d20 tests even more feasible. Eldritch invocations, if keeping warlock, are pact of the blade, agonizing eldritch blast, lessons of the first ones purple dragon rook needed for 16th level general feat, thirsting blade, eldritch smite, lifedrinker, devouring blade, witch sight, pact of the tome acid splash mage hand starry wisp find familiar tenser's floating disk, gift of the protectors, spells like armor of agathys, hex, tasha's hideous laughter, fly, dispel magic, dimension door, synaptic static, tasha's bubbling cauldron, foresight with rashemi wanderer (background) 15+2=17 charisma tough (origin feat), spell sniper 17+1=18 charisma at 4th PC level, great weapon master at 8th, 18+2=20 charisma at 12th, purple dragon commandant at 16th using lessons of the first ones eldritch invocation, desperate resilience (epic boon). Remember 13 strength for heavy melee weapons and 13 dexterity for heavy ranged weapons.
Consideration for solo play: There is strength in numbers. Hire trustworthy adventurers (non-playable characters) to back you up on your journey if possible. You may also be able to lure a conflict into a stronger force that will fight them.
Multiclass if allowed using player's handbook (2024 / 5.5) and forgotten realms: heroes of faerûn
Tank: 3 levels barbarian path of the wild heart, 16 levels paladin oath of devotion, final level barbarian for a second epic boon.
Healer: 19 levels life domain cleric, final level wizard.
Controller: 19 levels abjurer wizard, final level cleric.
Specialist: 19 levels bard college of lore, final level cleric.
Downside is they become weaker in some areas although a little more equipped in others. All of them may have 13 dexterity as well as martial weapon proficiency with cleric's protector divine order to use 150 feet range longbow without disadvantage, 150 feet happens to be the range of the darkvision provided by the darkvision spell that can be mastered by an 18th level wizard. It would take more expensive character options to achieve that kind of accuracy and range, although 13 dexterity 150 feet longbow is not a very good option, it could be used as a tactical distraction, hit an object to send a signal, or something else without magic in case there's antimagic at play, just need two free hands and ammunition. For mobility, there's phantom steed and find steed with mounted combatant general feat that could bump a 12 wisdom to a 13 at 16th character level to allow the cleric multiclass for wizard and bard, also increase cleric's 19 wisdom to 20 although they can't summon a mount by themselves unless other rules are at play, maybe can procure one in other ways such as having capable allies. Tenser's floating disk might be interesting outdoors where it may not get trapped by wall configurations, wizard mastering it could have hundreds active (if DM allows) for transporting a bunch of people or stuff on very large, well maintained roads if they don't want to use other spells, maybe they're a simulacrum.
Barbarian Paladin
Aasimar species; genie touched background magic initiate wizard (charisma, chill touch, mind sliver, tenser's floating disk) origin feat; 14 or 13 strength, 13 dexterity, 14 constitution, 8 intelligence, 8 or 10 wisdom, 17 charisma; 3 levels barbarian path of the wild heart athletics, survival, animal handling, bear rage of the wilds; multiclass 16 levels paladin oath of devotion, blind fighting fighting style, 18 charisma inspiring leader general feat, 20 charisma ability score improvement general feat, 14 strength (or dexterity if already have 14 or more strength) mounted combatant general feat, 15 strength irresistible offense epic boon; final level multiclass barbarian after 3 levels of barbarian and 16 levels of paladin for a total of 4 barbarian levels 16 strength desperate resilience epic boon since eventually becoming incapacitated removes rage the resistances of the epic boon become relevant and allow spellcasting with 20 charisma while not raging.
Cleric Wizard
Fire resistant dragonborn species (experienced deadly fire damage at 8th and 10th levels so far); guard background for alert origin feat to later use with initiative of find familiar bat with blindsight so heavy obscurement from fog cloud or some creature's trait doesn't hinder spells such as conjure celestial (find familiar also allows stuff like cure wounds beyond total cover and cure wounds has decent upcast scaling with the beacon of hope spell); 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 13 dexterity, 14 constitution, 13 intelligence, 17 wisdom, 8 charisma; 19 levels life domain cleric medicine, insight skills, guidance, sacred flame (counter zombie's undead fortitude), spare the dying cantrips, protector divine order but consider sticking to medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; 18 wisdom war caster general feat; potent spellcasting divine strikes that upgrade to providing temporary hit points on damage; 15 constitution resilient constitution general feat; 19 wisdom ritual caster (find familiar, tenser's floating disk, etc) general feat; 20 wisdom mounted combatant general feat; 16 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level wizard for shield spell etc and remove temptation of making divine intervention unavailable for days when you may need it the next day and won't know until it happens.
Wizard Cleric
Human species tough origin feat, perception skill; criminal background; 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 14 dexterity, 14 constitution, 17 intelligence, 12 wisdom, 8 charisma; 19 levels abjurer wizard arcana, investigation skills; expertise arcana; 18 intelligence war caster general feat; 15 constitution resilient constitution general feat; 20 intelligence ability score improvement general feat; 13 wisdom mounted combatant general feat; tenser's floating disk and darkvision spell masteries; 16 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level cleric guidance cantrip, consider preparing healing word for emergency, cure wounds that upcasts better with someone else's beacon of hope, protector divine order maybe equip medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; possible spellbook progression with abjuration savant mage armor, shield, remove curse, otiluke's resilient sphere, circle of power, spell breaker reminder counterspell and dispel magic always prepared, contingency, (7th level or lower abjuration), mind blank, prismatic wall: false life, witch bolt, fog cloud, feather fall, find familiar, detect magic, tenser's floating disk, comprehend languages, rope trick, see invisibility, misty step, cloud of daggers, leomund's tiny hut, slow, fly, water breathing (prepare it to cast with an action if multiple allies rely on it deep underwater in case something like dispel magic removes the effect early), polymorph, dimension door, fire shield, identify, wall of force, bigby's hand, rary's telepathic bond, gentle repose (prepare it if you can combine it with a cleric's divine intervention or the wish spell casting revivify so target bypasses the need of 4 long rests to fully remove the ordeal of coming back from the dead), disintegrate, tasha's bubbling cauldron, true seeing, haste, mordenkainen's magnificent mansion, finger of death, teleport, plane shift, antimagic field, maze, phantom steed (prepare it so even if missing every spellbook may cast it and make use of the mounted combatant general feat, consider casting the haste spell on the phantom steed if the situation seems appropriate), power word stun, wish, shapechange, darkvision (for spell mastery if spellbook doesn't have it, consider buffing every ally including phantom steed with it), true polymorph, yolande's regal presence (may go well with armor and shield proficiencies from next level's cleric multiclass), meteor swarm.
Bard Cleric
Dwarf species (poison trap resistance, 120 feet nonmagical darkvision, increased HP); criminal background for thieves' tools tool proficiency and alert origin feat for same reasons as cleric wizard; 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 14 dexterity, 16 constitution, 8 intelligence, 12 wisdom, 15 charisma; 19 levels bard college of lore arcana (for spell scroll crafting, make lots of healing word spell scrolls to swap the preparation and then prepare it again through cleric multiclass), perception, investigation skills, starry wisp (counter zombie's undead fortitude), vicious mockery cantrips, expertise perception and sleight of hand, get acrobatics, survival, insight skills bonus proficiencies from subclass, 16 charisma war caster general feat, 17 constitution resilient constitution general feat, expertise acrobatics and investigation skills, 18 charisma ability score improvement general feat, 13 wisdom mounted combatant general feat, 18 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level cleric guidance cantrip, prepare healing word, detect magic, protector divine order maybe equip medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; possible spell preparations unseen servant, healing word, heroism, faerie fire; detect magic; swap heroism with calm emotions and see invisibility; mage hand (fill in for unseen servant) and swap unseen servant with cloud of daggers and cure wounds; leomund's tiny hut and swap detect magic with dispel magic and hypnotic pattern; detect magic, counterspell magical discovery and another magical discovery; swap faerie fire with polymorph and dimension door; keep counterspell and swap the other magical discovery with fire shield then swap detect magic with aid and freedom of movement; yolande's regal presence, detect magic; swap hypnotic pattern with circle of power and beacon of hope; swap freedom of movement with heal and tasha's bubbling cauldron; swap counterspell magical discovery with find familiar and swap cloud of daggers with counterspell; swap see invisibility with conjure celestial and death ward; swap fire shield magical discovery with chill touch (combo subclass peerless skill) and swap polymorph with fly; swap leomund's tiny hut with mind blank and antimagic field; swap chill touch magical discovery with haste and swap calm emotions with phantom steed; swap detect magic with wish and prismatic wall; swap haste magical discovery with chill touch and swap yolande's regal presence with haste and spirit guardians (works without sight unlike yolande's regal presence); swap find familiar magical discovery with tenser's floating disk and swap healing word with find familiar and shield.
Addendum: Some say that, while cooperation is encouraged, the 2024 rules acknowledge that player agency is paramount, and if a character decides not to help ally survive death saves, it's a decision with consequences. Build rapport and expect others to do what they want, which may not be what the group needs short term.
My current first choice for a Faerûn adventurer:
Aasimar, Genie Touched Tenser's Floating Disk Chill Touch Mind Sliver, Barbarian, 17 CHA, 14 or 13 STR, Path of the Wild Heart Bear, LV4 Multiclass Paladin, Blind Fighting, Oath of Devotion, LV7 Paladin 4 Inspiring Leader 18 CHA, LV11 Paladin 8 Ability Score Improvement 20 CHA, LV15 Paladin 12 Mounted Combatant, LV19 Paladin 16 Boon of Irresistible Offense 15 STR, LV20 Multiclass Barbarian 4 Boon of Desperate Resilience 16 STR. Info
Barbarians are not as good as tanks as you think. The main downside is the lower AC compounded by advantagebto attack them. This means they take more damage, eat more riders and require more resources to heal. The one advantagebthey have is damage making them an easy target but resistance and hp are worse survival.mechanics than AC.
You see AC is the only one that gets better the more you have. So combining Armor, Shield, Fighting Style plus spells can make you better at survival than any Barb. What you need is damage to keep the monsters attention, something like grappling, smites or control options.
That was really long to read, and I will admit I didn’t, but I have to take issue with one of your early statements. The best crowd control isn’t taking opponents hp, it’s taking their action economy.
Fireball is great for hurting lots of enemies at once, but they still will all be standing afterwards. Hypnotic pattern, however, is basically pressing the “we win” button.
If an enemy doesn’t have ranged attacks, levitate is possibly the best 2nd level spell to use on them. Banishment, hold monster, monk’s stunning strike, etc. Even pausing their attacks for one round can give you enough room to turn the fight.
For solo play I think fighters are fine. Some self-heals to keep moving and a lot more available in 2024. An Eldritch knight can add Arcane Recovery. About half as much healing available as a paladin at 6th when comparing Second wind versus lay on hands. High AC+ shield. More feats or ASI to help.
You say solo then mention "if cleric doesn't get it." Solo characters will absolutely survive at the whim of a DM because any single character can be super easily countered. It is impossible to create a character a DM cannot kill. If your DM spams fireballs at you, next time they will spam lightning bolts. Or Hold Person.
Non-solo characters should meet a party goal. It's hard to beat a martial (fighter/barb/pally), caster (Wizard/sorc/bard), cleric/druid, and skill (Rogue/bard/maybe ranger) party.
Happy Halloween everyone,
@Taenx If AC can reliably block opponent's bonus to hit they likely have lower AC, HP and won't pose much of a threat in a deadly encounter which a creature may be expected to hit 25 AC with disadvantage and take over a third of character's HP without scoring a critical hit.
@Xalthu True, zero HP usually prevents creature from taking actions in the 2024 ruleset.
@Burgen_Badluk; @Tigero Good insight, I admit I have little experience playing without a team. The more we play the more we learn when a fight is winnable or not and the group back then did not fully understand some battles were too heavily stacked against characters, including the DM.
My current first choice for a Faerûn adventurer:
Aasimar, Genie Touched Tenser's Floating Disk Chill Touch Mind Sliver, Barbarian, 17 CHA, 14 or 13 STR, Path of the Wild Heart Bear, LV4 Multiclass Paladin, Blind Fighting, Oath of Devotion, LV7 Paladin 4 Inspiring Leader 18 CHA, LV11 Paladin 8 Ability Score Improvement 20 CHA, LV15 Paladin 12 Mounted Combatant, LV19 Paladin 16 Boon of Irresistible Offense 15 STR, LV20 Multiclass Barbarian 4 Boon of Desperate Resilience 16 STR. Info
Hypnotic Pattern really is overpowered, at least in multi-target fights. Psychic Scream is also a good crowd-control spell. 9th-level fireball that requires an int save and stuns for a minute.
I admit I am confused by your response. I do not know what you mean by expected to hit AC 25 with disadvantage, do you mean 50% of the time? 75%?
Consider the only creature that can consistently (< 50% of the time) hit AC 25 with disadvantage is the Tarrasque.
Are you saying a character with a 25 AC would not contribute to a fight?
Hi, before replying I wish everyone a happy thanksgiving prep for the upcoming day after tomorrow (my country doesn't celebrate) :3
@Taenx I did an experiment on my own after a particularly difficult encounter I felt the DM let us win so they could crush us on a harder fight later on. It was 'how many rounds my ideal character at the time would survive using AC against a heavy hitting enemy' and I disliked the result after 1v1 them on a white room exchanging blows as both creatures. I didn't register scientific data, but got the feeling AC wasn't what I was looking for to deal with heavy hitter types. AC will be a lot more useful against multiple light hitters that have less chance to hit and, when they do, damage isn't very much. DM often uses 3rd party creatures that aren't in the Monster Manual and, as one of the results, I get less chances to review and experiment after a battle. They change creature appearance and name, maybe to discourage people from looking up weaknesses on the spot, which I don't think happens in our group and, if it did, the guy hasn't been showing up to play.
We broke a new group record last Sunday! We reached 9th character level with zero deaths for the first time ever after playing casually for years and I count that as a win, no matter how small that may seem x) DM says it's them vs the players, 'stakes aren't high enough otherwise'. We may get an average of two combat encounters every session. I'm aware there are groups that go multiple sessions with zero combat encounters and some won't play if their character's life isn't protected by the DM. I enjoy the challenge.
My current first choice for a Faerûn adventurer:
Aasimar, Genie Touched Tenser's Floating Disk Chill Touch Mind Sliver, Barbarian, 17 CHA, 14 or 13 STR, Path of the Wild Heart Bear, LV4 Multiclass Paladin, Blind Fighting, Oath of Devotion, LV7 Paladin 4 Inspiring Leader 18 CHA, LV11 Paladin 8 Ability Score Improvement 20 CHA, LV15 Paladin 12 Mounted Combatant, LV19 Paladin 16 Boon of Irresistible Offense 15 STR, LV20 Multiclass Barbarian 4 Boon of Desperate Resilience 16 STR. Info
Barbarians are excellent melee dps, but they suffer from being melee, they just don't have good ranged options and, while it's not as pronounced as 2014, kiting still wins a lot of battles.
Hi, happy easter prep, true, mobility and range are amazing until DM counters them. Updated topic with stuff including format. Hope your rolls are amazing when it counts :D
My current first choice for a Faerûn adventurer:
Aasimar, Genie Touched Tenser's Floating Disk Chill Touch Mind Sliver, Barbarian, 17 CHA, 14 or 13 STR, Path of the Wild Heart Bear, LV4 Multiclass Paladin, Blind Fighting, Oath of Devotion, LV7 Paladin 4 Inspiring Leader 18 CHA, LV11 Paladin 8 Ability Score Improvement 20 CHA, LV15 Paladin 12 Mounted Combatant, LV19 Paladin 16 Boon of Irresistible Offense 15 STR, LV20 Multiclass Barbarian 4 Boon of Desperate Resilience 16 STR. Info
If I'm going to be honest, a spell caster (Particularly a Diviner Wizard) can wreak havoc on many monsters quite easily. Because of your large amount of versatility, and the fact that you can create tank wizards.
Hello! Call me Tana or 타나
My pronouns are Any/All/BOC
I will always support you. Because that is my way of showing how much I care
Current List of Children: Golden, Salem, Wes, Aspen, Link, SuperDog, and Foalin.
I have Autism. And, you would probably call me Trans, and a Pansexual pancake
Current Dice Code: [roll]1d6[/roll] + [roll]1d6[/roll] + [roll]1d6[/roll] + [roll]1d6[/roll] + [roll]1d6[/roll] = [roll][roll:-5]+[roll:-4]+[roll:-3]+[roll:-2]+[roll:-1][/roll]
That's true and hi everyone, hope you've been well \o/ Multiclass and previous updates on the topic. My current favorite character builds for the group roles of fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue are multiclasses (one of my DMs is super against multiclassing):
F: 3 levels barbarian path of the wild heart, 16 levels paladin oath of devotion, final level barbarian for a second epic boon.
C: 19 levels life domain cleric, final level wizard.
W: 19 levels abjurer wizard, final level cleric.
R: 19 levels bard college of lore, final level cleric.
Downside is they become weaker in some areas although a little more equipped in others. All of them may have 13 dexterity as well as martial weapon proficiency with cleric's protector divine order to use 150 feet range longbow without disadvantage, 150 feet happens to be the range of the darkvision provided by the darkvision spell that can be mastered by an 18th level wizard. It would take more expensive character options to achieve that kind of accuracy and range, although 13 dexterity 150 feet longbow is not a very good option, it could be used as a tactical distraction, hit an object to send a signal, or something else without magic in case there's antimagic at play, just need two free hands and ammunition. For mobility, there's phantom steed and find steed with mounted combatant general feat that could bump a 12 wisdom to a 13 at 16th character level to allow the cleric multiclass for wizard and bard, also increase cleric's 19 wisdom to 20 although they can't summon a mount by themselves unless other rules are at play, maybe can procure one in other ways such as having capable allies. Tenser's floating disk might be interesting outdoors where it may not get trapped by wall configurations, wizard mastering it could have hundreds active (if DM allows) for transporting a bunch of people or stuff on very large, well maintained roads if they don't want to use other spells, maybe they're a simulacrum. Several changes to spell progression such as bard preparing beacon of hope at 10th class level due to it being more mobile than rope trick on average; paladin getting inspiring leader at 4th class level, 7th character level while also having genie touched background for magic initiate wizard charisma origin feat to learn tenser's floating disk, chill touch, mind sliver; basically a rework of every character with multiple changes. Everything is both here and at the topic right now. Thanks for reading :)
Going for adventurer's league organized play compatibility so player's handbook (2024 / 5.5) and forgotten realms: heroes of faerûn. Please check available options with DM and make your changes :3
Barbarian Paladin
Aasimar species; genie touched background magic initiate wizard (charisma, chill touch, mind sliver, tenser's floating disk) origin feat; 14 or 13 strength, 13 dexterity, 14 constitution, 8 intelligence, 8 or 10 wisdom, 17 charisma; 3 levels barbarian path of the wild heart athletics, survival, animal handling, bear rage of the wilds; multiclass 16 levels paladin oath of devotion, blind fighting fighting style, 18 charisma inspiring leader general feat, 20 charisma ability score improvement general feat, 14 strength (or dexterity if already have 14 or more strength) mounted combatant general feat, 15 strength irresistible offense epic boon; final level multiclass barbarian after 3 levels of barbarian and 16 levels of paladin for a total of 4 barbarian levels 16 strength desperate resilience epic boon since eventually becoming incapacitated removes rage the resistances of the epic boon become relevant and allow spellcasting with 20 charisma while not raging.
Cleric Wizard
Fire resistant dragonborn species (experienced deadly fire damage at 8th and 10th levels so far); guard background for alert origin feat to later use with initiative of find familiar bat with blindsight so heavy obscurement from fog cloud or some creature's trait doesn't hinder spells such as conjure celestial (find familiar also allows stuff like cure wounds beyond total cover and cure wounds has decent upcast scaling with the beacon of hope spell); 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 13 dexterity, 14 constitution, 13 intelligence, 17 wisdom, 8 charisma; 19 levels life domain cleric medicine, insight skills, guidance, sacred flame (counter zombie's undead fortitude), spare the dying cantrips, protector divine order but consider sticking to medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; 18 wisdom war caster general feat; potent spellcasting divine strikes that upgrade to providing temporary hit points on damage; 15 constitution resilient constitution general feat; 19 wisdom ritual caster (find familiar, tenser's floating disk, etc) general feat; 20 wisdom mounted combatant general feat; 16 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level wizard for shield spell etc and remove temptation of making divine intervention unavailable for days when you may need it the next day and won't know until it happens.
Wizard Cleric
Human species tough origin feat, perception skill; criminal background; 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 14 dexterity, 14 constitution, 17 intelligence, 12 wisdom, 8 charisma; 19 levels abjurer wizard arcana, investigation skills; expertise arcana; 18 intelligence war caster general feat; 15 constitution resilient constitution general feat; 20 intelligence ability score improvement general feat; 13 wisdom mounted combatant general feat; tenser's floating disk and darkvision spell masteries; 16 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level cleric guidance cantrip, consider preparing healing word for emergency, cure wounds that upcasts better with someone else's beacon of hope, protector divine order maybe equip medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; possible spellbook progression with abjuration savant mage armor, shield, remove curse, otiluke's resilient sphere, circle of power, spell breaker reminder counterspell and dispel magic always prepared, contingency, (7th level or lower abjuration), mind blank, prismatic wall: false life, witch bolt, fog cloud, feather fall, find familiar, detect magic, tenser's floating disk, comprehend languages, rope trick, see invisibility, misty step, cloud of daggers, leomund's tiny hut, slow, fly, water breathing (prepare it to cast with an action if multiple allies rely on it deep underwater in case something like dispel magic removes the effect early), polymorph, dimension door, fire shield, identify, wall of force, bigby's hand, rary's telepathic bond, gentle repose (prepare it if you can combine it with a cleric's divine intervention or the wish spell casting revivify so target bypasses the need of 4 long rests to fully remove the ordeal of coming back from the dead), disintegrate, tasha's bubbling cauldron, true seeing, haste, mordenkainen's magnificent mansion, finger of death, teleport, plane shift, antimagic field, maze, phantom steed (prepare it so even if missing every spellbook may cast it and make use of the mounted combatant general feat, consider casting the haste spell on the phantom steed if the situation seems appropriate), power word stun, wish, shapechange, darkvision (for spell mastery if spellbook doesn't have it, consider buffing every ally including phantom steed with it), true polymorph, yolande's regal presence (may go well with armor and shield proficiencies from next level's cleric multiclass), meteor swarm.
Bard Cleric
Dwarf species (poison trap resistance, 120 feet nonmagical darkvision, increased HP); criminal background for thieves' tools tool proficiency and alert origin feat for same reasons as cleric wizard; 10 strength for nonmagical long jumps, 14 dexterity, 16 constitution, 8 intelligence, 12 wisdom, 15 charisma; 19 levels bard college of lore arcana (for spell scroll crafting, make lots of healing word spell scrolls to swap the preparation and then prepare it again through cleric multiclass), perception, investigation skills, starry wisp (counter zombie's undead fortitude), vicious mockery cantrips, expertise perception and sleight of hand, get acrobatics, survival, insight skills bonus proficiencies from subclass, 16 charisma war caster general feat, 17 constitution resilient constitution general feat, expertise acrobatics and investigation skills, 18 charisma ability score improvement general feat, 13 wisdom mounted combatant general feat, 18 constitution desperate resilience epic boon; multiclass last level cleric guidance cantrip, prepare healing word, detect magic, protector divine order maybe equip medium armor for extra movement unless you got strength to spare or have some sort of speed enhancement such as a mount or a mounted character's tenser's floating disk outside dungeons on clear ground so disk doesn't catch at sharp corners or tall grass, etc; possible spell preparations unseen servant, healing word, heroism, faerie fire; detect magic; swap heroism with calm emotions and see invisibility; mage hand (fill in for unseen servant) and swap unseen servant with cloud of daggers and cure wounds; leomund's tiny hut and swap detect magic with dispel magic and hypnotic pattern; detect magic, counterspell magical discovery and another magical discovery; swap faerie fire with polymorph and dimension door; keep counterspell and swap the other magical discovery with fire shield then swap detect magic with aid and freedom of movement; yolande's regal presence, detect magic; swap hypnotic pattern with circle of power and beacon of hope; swap freedom of movement with heal and tasha's bubbling cauldron; swap counterspell magical discovery with find familiar and swap cloud of daggers with counterspell; swap see invisibility with conjure celestial and death ward; swap fire shield magical discovery with chill touch (combo subclass peerless skill) and swap polymorph with fly; swap leomund's tiny hut with mind blank and antimagic field; swap chill touch magical discovery with haste and swap calm emotions with phantom steed; swap detect magic with wish and prismatic wall; swap haste magical discovery with chill touch and swap yolande's regal presence with haste and spirit guardians (works without sight unlike yolande's regal presence); swap find familiar magical discovery with tenser's floating disk and swap healing word with find familiar and shield.
My current first choice for a Faerûn adventurer:
Aasimar, Genie Touched Tenser's Floating Disk Chill Touch Mind Sliver, Barbarian, 17 CHA, 14 or 13 STR, Path of the Wild Heart Bear, LV4 Multiclass Paladin, Blind Fighting, Oath of Devotion, LV7 Paladin 4 Inspiring Leader 18 CHA, LV11 Paladin 8 Ability Score Improvement 20 CHA, LV15 Paladin 12 Mounted Combatant, LV19 Paladin 16 Boon of Irresistible Offense 15 STR, LV20 Multiclass Barbarian 4 Boon of Desperate Resilience 16 STR. Info