The 2024 rules seem to make optimizing a grappler really difficult, as the save dc depends only on your attribute modifier and proficiency bonus. There doesn't appear to be any magic items that directly improve grappling.
Feats:
1. Grappler: attack and grapple is okay for a monk. Does require both a hit and a save, though, so two points of failure. The main benefit here is not reducing speed for carrying them around.
2. Street Justice: pretty cool if you want to tie them up afterwards.
Spells:
1. Enlarge/Reduce to be able to grapple larger things
2. Sanctuary - since a grapple isn't an attack roll, you can grapple without breaking Sanctuary.
3. Invisibility - as above, you can grapple and stay invisible.
4. Spells like Spirit Guardians - you can hold grappled targets in your ongoing AoE damage.
5. Spells like Bane - apply penalties to their saving throws.
Items
1. Belt of Giant Strength - even if you're a monk grappler, this is probably your best item. You can dump str and use dex to start, but this is the only real way to scale your grappling save dc.
2. Cape of Enlargement - can make you larger. Stacks with Enlarge/Reduce. Sadly from a published adventure rather than a regular book.
Am I missing anything relevant?
I'm thinking Monk 1/Cleric X. Get the bonus attack unarmed strike and dex for grapple dc so i can initiate a grapple and take a utilize action in the same turn to tie them up. Grab Street Justice at level 4. Cast Sanctuary to make it harder for them to attack me while grappling. Not totally sure which Cleric subclass fits best.
Also, tying them up applies the restrained condition, which seems to imply we're tying their legs. I mean, they can still attack with a great sword. Any rules-explicit way to bind their hands behind their back or hog tie them so they can't cast spells and can't attack at all with a weapon?
Grappleing counts as an unarmed strike in 2024 rules.
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Any rules-explicit way to bind their hands behind their back or hog tie them so they can't cast spells and can't attack at all with a weapon?
No, you must impose the Incapacitated condition to prevent a character from casting spells or attacking at all.
That's dumb. Incapacitated of course means they also can't speak. So you're saying you can't securely bind someone and then interrogate them. What the hell rules? This is standard action/adventure stuff.
That's dumb. Incapacitated of course means they also can't speak. So you're saying you can't securely bind someone and then interrogate them. What the hell rules? This is standard action/adventure stuff.
Because Misty Step is a V only spell, you cannot interrogate any character / creature that has Misty Step without them being able to teleport away, at least not until you have access to an Antimagic Field. Not to mention there are now many many subclass / class features which allow casting spell with no components at all, meaning any conscious character of sufficiently high level can teleport away unless you capture them in Dimensional Shackles.
Essentially what this means is that the player's ability to interrogate a hostile creature is entirely at DM-fiat.
That's dumb. Incapacitated of course means they also can't speak. So you're saying you can't securely bind someone and then interrogate them. What the hell rules? This is standard action/adventure stuff.
Because Misty Step is a V only spell, you cannot interrogate any character / creature that has Misty Step without them being able to teleport away, at least not until you have access to an Antimagic Field. Not to mention there are now many many subclass / class features which allow casting spell with no components at all, meaning any conscious character of sufficiently high level can teleport away unless you capture them in Dimensional Shackles.
Essentially what this means is that the player's ability to interrogate a hostile creature is entirely at DM-fiat.
Well, yes, i meant prevent use of somatic and material components (which neither the restrained condition nor even manacles say they do... i don't... what?)
Many of those class features only remove verbal and/or somatic components, not material ones, so binding hands should theoretically prevent a lot of spellcasting. (Obviously Misty Step and other V only spells are hard to prevent while trying to interrogate someone).
But of course, all of that only applies to spellcasters.
Well, yes, i meant prevent use of somatic and material components (which neither the restrained condition nor even manacles say they do... i don't... what?)
Many of those class features only remove verbal and/or somatic components, not material ones, so binding hands should theoretically prevent a lot of spellcasting. (Obviously Misty Step and other V only spells are hard to prevent while trying to interrogate someone).
But of course, all of that only applies to spellcasters.
Material components are only needed for ~33% of published spells. There are no specific rules for when does some amount of binding constitute "occupying" their hands. The Restrained condition is used far too broadly to include something that specific. So it would be up to DM interpretation if you have sufficiently bound them to make their hands unusable for S components or for holding items. However so long as they are capable of moving - i.e. not incapacitated - they are able to make Unarmed Strikes to attack. One certainly could tie them to something - like a tree - and move out of their reach to prevent them making unarmed strikes. But in general IME your better off trying to convince a prisoner to cooperate rather than relying on the inability of them to attempt to escape.
Certain effects (e.g. befuddlement) disallow the magic action, which will prevent most spellcasting.
Any effect that makes the victim unable to speak will prevent spells with verbal components. Other than silence, I am not aware of a published ability that does that.
Any effect that means the victim lacks a 'free hand' will prevent spells with material or somatic components. I am not aware of a published ability that does that.
You'd probably just have to call hog-tying someone a limited form of incapacitated.
Certain effects (e.g. befuddlement) disallow the magic action, which will prevent most spellcasting.
Any effect that makes the victim unable to speak will prevent spells with verbal components. Other than silence, I am not aware of a published ability that does that.
Any effect that means the victim lacks a 'free hand' will prevent spells with material or somatic components. I am not aware of a published ability that does that.
You'd probably just have to call hog-tying someone a limited form of incapacitated.
While it may not be strictly RAW, in practice every DM I've ever played with has ruled that having your hands tied means you can't cast spells with somatic components. In the absence of a restriction like this, the whole concept of somatic components doesn't mean much.
That's dumb. Incapacitated of course means they also can't speak. So you're saying you can't securely bind someone and then interrogate them. What the hell rules? This is standard action/adventure stuff.
Because Misty Step is a V only spell, you cannot interrogate any character / creature that has Misty Step without them being able to teleport away, at least not until you have access to an Antimagic Field. Not to mention there are now many many subclass / class features which allow casting spell with no components at all, meaning any conscious character of sufficiently high level can teleport away unless you capture them in Dimensional Shackles.
Essentially what this means is that the player's ability to interrogate a hostile creature is entirely at DM-fiat.
That's what message is for! It has no V component, so I've always interpreted the "whisper" it mentions as being more of a psychic magic whisper than a literal one. An underrated cantrip in my opinion.
Because Misty Step is a V only spell, you cannot interrogate any character / creature that has Misty Step without them being able to teleport away, at least not until you have access to an Antimagic Field.
Misty step requires vision, so unless they also have blindsight you can blindfold them. However, you're usually better off just entirely incapacitating them and using detect thoughts.
That's dumb. Incapacitated of course means they also can't speak. So you're saying you can't securely bind someone and then interrogate them. What the hell rules? This is standard action/adventure stuff.
Because Misty Step is a V only spell, you cannot interrogate any character / creature that has Misty Step without them being able to teleport away, at least not until you have access to an Antimagic Field. Not to mention there are now many many subclass / class features which allow casting spell with no components at all, meaning any conscious character of sufficiently high level can teleport away unless you capture them in Dimensional Shackles.
Essentially what this means is that the player's ability to interrogate a hostile creature is entirely at DM-fiat.
That's what message is for! It has no V component, so I've always interpreted the "whisper" it mentions as being more of a psychic magic whisper than a literal one. An underrated cantrip in my opinion.
Sidenote: It has no V component now because WotC screwed up and decided that V had to be mystic magic mumbo-jumbo. Originally, V just meant you had to be able to speak, and if the spell description gave something that was spoken, that was the verbal component. So message was historically V,S,M because the whispered message was the V. (And the M used to be a copper wire and a small cup. The S was using the cup and wire like it was one end of a cup-and-string phone. S didn't used to require magic hand symbols, either. It was usually just using the M in a way that completed the joke.) Similarly, the suggestion of the Suggestion spell used to be its V component back in the day.
Anyway, WotC finally noticed that if you require mystic mumbo jumbo every time there's a V, Message no longer works like its supposed to, that is, quietly. But the original sin was saying things with stated verbal aspects needed more than those stated aspects for the V.
So do you still whisper the message? I don't know anymore. I'd take S,M to mean you can cast it without having use of your mouth, and can cast it in the area of a silence spell. WotC seems to have forgotten what the original purpose of components was.
The 2024 rules seem to make optimizing a grappler really difficult, as the save dc depends only on your attribute modifier and proficiency bonus. There doesn't appear to be any magic items that directly improve grappling.
Feats:
1. Grappler: attack and grapple is okay for a monk. Does require both a hit and a save, though, so two points of failure. The main benefit here is not reducing speed for carrying them around.
2. Street Justice: pretty cool if you want to tie them up afterwards.
Spells:
1. Enlarge/Reduce to be able to grapple larger things
2. Sanctuary - since a grapple isn't an attack roll, you can grapple without breaking Sanctuary.
3. Invisibility - as above, you can grapple and stay invisible.
4. Spells like Spirit Guardians - you can hold grappled targets in your ongoing AoE damage.
5. Spells like Bane - apply penalties to their saving throws.
Items
1. Belt of Giant Strength - even if you're a monk grappler, this is probably your best item. You can dump str and use dex to start, but this is the only real way to scale your grappling save dc.
2. Cape of Enlargement - can make you larger. Stacks with Enlarge/Reduce. Sadly from a published adventure rather than a regular book.
Am I missing anything relevant?
I'm thinking Monk 1/Cleric X. Get the bonus attack unarmed strike and dex for grapple dc so i can initiate a grapple and take a utilize action in the same turn to tie them up. Grab Street Justice at level 4. Cast Sanctuary to make it harder for them to attack me while grappling. Not totally sure which Cleric subclass fits best.
Also, tying them up applies the restrained condition, which seems to imply we're tying their legs. I mean, they can still attack with a great sword. Any rules-explicit way to bind their hands behind their back or hog tie them so they can't cast spells and can't attack at all with a weapon?
No, you must impose the Incapacitated condition to prevent a character from casting spells or attacking at all.
Grappleing counts as an unarmed strike in 2024 rules.
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That's dumb. Incapacitated of course means they also can't speak. So you're saying you can't securely bind someone and then interrogate them. What the hell rules? This is standard action/adventure stuff.
I know, hence my reference to using Monk to get the bonus action unarmed strike. But it doesn't involve an attack roll, it's just a saving throw.
Because Misty Step is a V only spell, you cannot interrogate any character / creature that has Misty Step without them being able to teleport away, at least not until you have access to an Antimagic Field. Not to mention there are now many many subclass / class features which allow casting spell with no components at all, meaning any conscious character of sufficiently high level can teleport away unless you capture them in Dimensional Shackles.
Essentially what this means is that the player's ability to interrogate a hostile creature is entirely at DM-fiat.
Goliath 24 can become size large so you can grapple huge creatures. Also rune knight fighter or giants barbarian can.
Well, yes, i meant prevent use of somatic and material components (which neither the restrained condition nor even manacles say they do... i don't... what?)
Many of those class features only remove verbal and/or somatic components, not material ones, so binding hands should theoretically prevent a lot of spellcasting. (Obviously Misty Step and other V only spells are hard to prevent while trying to interrogate someone).
But of course, all of that only applies to spellcasters.
Material components are only needed for ~33% of published spells. There are no specific rules for when does some amount of binding constitute "occupying" their hands. The Restrained condition is used far too broadly to include something that specific. So it would be up to DM interpretation if you have sufficiently bound them to make their hands unusable for S components or for holding items. However so long as they are capable of moving - i.e. not incapacitated - they are able to make Unarmed Strikes to attack. One certainly could tie them to something - like a tree - and move out of their reach to prevent them making unarmed strikes. But in general IME your better off trying to convince a prisoner to cooperate rather than relying on the inability of them to attempt to escape.
Not actually true (at least for spells; preventing attacks is more involved), but all the alternatives are messy to implement.
You'd probably just have to call hog-tying someone a limited form of incapacitated.
While it may not be strictly RAW, in practice every DM I've ever played with has ruled that having your hands tied means you can't cast spells with somatic components. In the absence of a restriction like this, the whole concept of somatic components doesn't mean much.
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That's what message is for! It has no V component, so I've always interpreted the "whisper" it mentions as being more of a psychic magic whisper than a literal one. An underrated cantrip in my opinion.
Misty step requires vision, so unless they also have blindsight you can blindfold them. However, you're usually better off just entirely incapacitating them and using detect thoughts.
Sidenote: It has no V component now because WotC screwed up and decided that V had to be mystic magic mumbo-jumbo. Originally, V just meant you had to be able to speak, and if the spell description gave something that was spoken, that was the verbal component. So message was historically V,S,M because the whispered message was the V. (And the M used to be a copper wire and a small cup. The S was using the cup and wire like it was one end of a cup-and-string phone. S didn't used to require magic hand symbols, either. It was usually just using the M in a way that completed the joke.) Similarly, the suggestion of the Suggestion spell used to be its V component back in the day.
Anyway, WotC finally noticed that if you require mystic mumbo jumbo every time there's a V, Message no longer works like its supposed to, that is, quietly. But the original sin was saying things with stated verbal aspects needed more than those stated aspects for the V.
So do you still whisper the message? I don't know anymore. I'd take S,M to mean you can cast it without having use of your mouth, and can cast it in the area of a silence spell. WotC seems to have forgotten what the original purpose of components was.