Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Playing Storm King’s Thunder at level 8 going on 9. The plan for the campaign is to do all the giant lords, of which we’ve beaten 2 so far. It was combined with Lost Mines and Below, so the campaign might return to that plot at some point as well. Basically, there will be several more levels for this character.
I play a glamour bard who’s specced heavily into utility and status effects. So heavily in fact that I have no damage options. As we’re reaching level 9 next session, I need to work on this, because I’m finding too many turns where I just end up holding concentration and passing. I was thinking a multiclass could help, but the only ones I have the stats for are rogue, fighter, sorcerer, and warlock.
So I’m debating two angles and need help. Do I multiclass to:
A) Give up on the character concept and pick up some damage
B) Find enough utility options that I can do something each turn even if it’s not attacking
Or is there a better way to achieve one of these goals by staying bard? Part of me thinks give up, go archfey warlock for eldritch blast. Part of me thinks to stick to the concept and take a sorcerer level for all the elemental cantrips (shape water, mold earth, etc.).
The elemental cantrips have almost no utility in combat. So I would definitely not recommend MCing into sorcerer for those.
Viable Options:
1) Give up being no-damage and dip Warlock for EB+AB.
2) Stay support focused and pick up every single one that isn't concentration: Blindness, Command, Dimension Door, Healing spells, Dispel Magic, Restorations.
I find it hard to believe you don't have anything you can do, surely after the first round you could at least heal your allies.
You swap some spells could get some damage options that you can use as a Bard while concentrating:
The best option IMO is Disonnant whispers, cast it on the bad guy with a couple of your martial friends next to and you get op attack damage as well as spell damage.
Especially if you have multiple combats per day so you can not your levelled spells every round I would also ask your DM if you can swap a cantrip, which you could have done at level 8 but RAW can not now to to level 12. Most DMs will allow this. Take Vicious mockery the damage is terrible but disadvantage on their next attack is nice.
Both of these fit in with a bard that is heavily into status effects, you have something to do with your action every round that does a bit of damage and applies a status effect (without using concentration).
I have healing word of course, but it’s generally not worth using that unless somebody’s gone down, since the 6-9 HP usually won’t save them from any break points. Otherwise my only non-concentration spells are dimension door, blindness/deafness, and silvery barbs. That last one gets enough use, but the other two tend to be situational (we’re mostly fighting giants so blindness doesn’t hit very much).
I had lesser restoration and dispel magic for a while, but swapped them out a at 7 because they don’t seem to have use cases in this module. Don’t think there was ever a scenario where we needed either of them.
I'm surprised by dispel magic.
Lesser resoration (like revivify) is situational but can be very useful when you need it. I think the best solution for that is to have a couple of scrolls so you don't need to know them.
I don't know the module but whenever coming accross spell casters I use dispel magic possibly more than any other spell. If a door is trapped by a spell it is usually best to dispel it. If the enemy spellcaster casts haste on his goon dispelling it it wonderful. If he polymorphs a party member , dispelling to bring them back is usually more reliable than trying to get them to lose concentration. Every campaign I have been in has enough spellcasters for dispel magic to come up often.
The only thing with dispel magic is it might be better on another party member (it another party member can cast it). That way you can give them inspiration so they are much more likely to succeed dispelling high level spells with a 3rd level spot. This doesn't really apply if there is an artificer in the party as flash of inspiration is probably better (though less uses).
Get yourself Cure Wounds, 32 points of healing when cast at 3rd level, and you've got the slots to spare if your not doing anything most rounds. Command is better than Blindness in pretty much every way so swap your spells around for that one. If you want some cantrips to spam then MC into Divine Soul Sorcerer for Guidance and Resistance, they don't do much but that's kind of the point of cantrips. No spellcaster does much if they aren't dropping their top 50% of slots in the combat.
I'd say hang on for Magical Secrets at level 10 and up and start changing your spell list up.
My level 9 bard has the following spells:
cantrip: viscious Mockery on a martial: wis save, 7 dmg and disadvantage on next attack roll
1 Faerie file: Everyone attacks targets with advantage. super good if the party makes lots of attack rolls
1 Sleep: knock them out, somneone has to waste an action to wake them up
2 Suggestion: 8 hour duration, stop the fight before it starts, or take out the biggest dumbest tank in the enemy's ranks
3 hypnotic pattern: incapacitate a 30ft cube of enemies for a minute
4 polymorph: turn the big dumb enemy tank into a turtle or some other disable form. THrow them over a cliff
5 synaptic static: INT saving throw, every bad guy in a 40 foot diameter sphere, 8d6 damage, AND enemies are just wrecked for upt to a minute. subtract 1d6 from all attack rolls and ability checks,
Also, at level 10 you get magical secrets?!?!? If you're feeling left out, grab fireball and wall of force and just go to town.
at every level up, you can change out an existing spell to something new, and most level ups you also get to pick a new spell. so when magical secrets is unlocked, go shopping from the wizard list.
at 6th level, you can get disintegrate and mass suggestion. mass suggestion would let you end an entire encounter if the DM has any sense, they'd set up the pins once in a while so you can knock em down. Mass Suggestion doesnt have concentration and only ends if you damage the target, the enemy cant even snap their own allies out of it. It's WILD.
All great spells but I agree with the OP that you really want something to do on your turn when you are concentrating on a spell. Fireball is an option with magical secrets but the only bard spell you mention that doesn't require concentration in synaptic static and at level 9 you can't do that very often (I would also point out that your description of synaptic static is misleading, it isn't every bad guy in a 40ft sphere it is everyone in the sphere, in a lot of combats you would not be able to avoid friendly fire).
some good magical secrets options:
level 1 spell: GuidingBolt is first level, 4d6 radiant, 120 ft range. great range, great damage, great damage type, uses an attack roll instead of a save.
level 2 spell: rimes binding ice. 30ft cone, con save (not great i admit), 3d8 cold damage on fail and target is stuck in ice. half damage on success.
level 2 spell: scorching ray: 3 rays, 2d6 per ray, 120 ft range, great range, great damage, not so great damage type, uses 3 attack rolls, so more likely to hit, and can spread things out.
level 2 spell: tasha's mind whip. INT SAVE (veddy nice), 3d6 psychic damage and target can only do 1 on next turn: move, action, bonusaction. half damage on save.
GuidingBolt is level 1 and does good damage at a great range and you can upcast it. probably my first choice.
if you upcast guidngbolt, its 5d6 damage, almost as good as scorching ray, but a better damage type. so for my attack roll spell, i'd go guiding bolt.
tasha's mind whip can be brutal. INT save is almost always bad for monsters. damage is not awesome, but you either lock them in place, or they can only do action or bonusaction.
for really nasty monsters with lots of actions, bonus actions, and they need to move to stay in melee, this is a great spell.
at level 10, maybe pick up guiding bolt as your go-to no-concentration attack with good damage and a good damage type, and can use a low-level slot
upcast it when you can, but use a level 1 slot to conserve slots but still do damage,
AND then pick up a level 5 spell that does serious damage, like synaptic static or steel wind strike.
I am curious: what are you concentrating on? Is there a go-to spell you keep using? Or are you concentrating on one of several possible spells, depending on the need?
with level 10 magical secrets, you coudl be concentrating on something like Summon Dragon or Wall of Force.
Keeping in mind that I don’t have magical secrets for a while, my concentration usually Fairie Fire, Suggestion, Enemies Abound, or the Glamour feature that lets me spam Command. Usually I’m disabling one big enemy or letting fairie fire buff all the martials. Yes I know about hypnotic pattern but I wanted to try different spells since that’s always the go-to.
yeah, that's pretty much teh best concentration spells for a bard. It's one reason I usually build a Lore bard to get magical secrets at level 6 and pick up fireball early.
well, you're at level 8, going on level 9. so one more level gets you magical secrets.
the alternative is 2 levels of warlock to get eldritch blast/agonizing blast, and put fireball on hold for a while.
depends on how often you run into mobs of monsters....
Hypnotic Pattern is overrated. Fear is better as long as you can get in range to use it.
Raulothim's Psychic Lance is probably the best option for big boss giants, you should stick with Bard so you can get Hold Monster which is also excellent if enemies will fail saves, Synaptic Static is the other go-to 5th level spell for Bards.
Greater Invisibility should also be on your list for when enemies start getting Legendary Resistances.
Nathair's Mischief is also a good option once enemies start getting Legendary Resistances because they have to save every round.
Command is by far the best non-concentration Bard spell until Psychic Lance. I don't know why you wouldn't be casting it every round while concentrating unless you are running out of spellslots. If spellslots are the issue, then your options for non-damaging combat spells are Blade Ward, or Resistance.
"Command is by far the best non-concentration Bard spell until Psychic Lance. I don't know why you wouldn't be casting it every round while concentrating unless you are running out of spellslots."
My preference for how to use my spell slots goes in the following order:
(1) affect multiple creatures for multiple rounds
(2) affect a single creature for multiple rounds or
(3) do something to a bunch of targets for 1 round
(4) do something to 1 target for 1 round.
Examples: 1=hypnotic pattern, 2=suggestion, 3=fireball, 4=command
Hypnotic pattern doesn't affect multiple creatures for multiple rounds most of the time, it is incredibly easy for enemies to break free from, a single enemy action can break Hypnotic pattern on 3 of their allies. You're basically trading one of your actions for one of the enemy's actions, maybe if you're lucky 2 enemy actions.
Suggestion has to be carefully worded to do anything at all.
Fireball is ok, but not as impactful as a 3rd level Command (which targets 3 creatures). A 3rd level Grovel Command, not only takes away 3 whole turns from the enemy, it also gives all your melee allies advantage for a whole round - that can be just as much damage as a Fireball depending on your party composition.
", a single enemy action can break Hypnotic pattern on 3 of their allies."
"The spell ends for an affected creature if it takes any damage or if someone else uses an action to shake the creature out of its stupor."
I dont see how a single enemy can end the spell on 3 others.
"Suggestion has to be carefully worded to do anything at all."
Actually, the spell description was changed so that the wording only has "sound achievable" and not deal deal damage to the target or allies.
I can guarantee this was done to stop certain types of dm's from looking for loopholes or reasons to.say the suggestion given fails. The dm who plays dm-versus-player caused the wording to be cleaned up, and be.much less subjective.
If you suggest ANYTHING that sounds achievable, it satisfies the spell. If you suggest they play hopscotch till the morning, it works. If you suggest they collect pine cones till dawn, it works. If you suggest they get help little old ladies cross the street till dawn, it works.
The question of whether it seems "reasonable" is GONE. it merely has to be something achievable. If they achieve it, the spell ends, so you want suggestions that tell them to do something until dawn or whenever the spell ends, or just say "for 8 hours". Sweep the streets for 8 hours. Help organize books at the library for 8 hours. If you can come up with something achievable AND likely to get them arrested and detained, all the better.
The spell says the suggestiom "not involve anything that would obviously deal damage to the target or its allies"
If you tell them to go stand at the corner of pine and baker streets for 8 hours, and that happens to be where the city watch is located, eh, its achievable and does not deal them damage, so it works.
"Fireball is ok, but not as impactful as a 3rd level Command (which targets 3 creatures)."
I regularly throw dozens of monsters at my players. It is always a mix of a bunch of small cr and a couple larger cr monsters. Last session, the sorcerer fired 3 fireballs and each spell hit 6 to 8 monsters.
The players set up choke points, got the monsters to bunch up, and boom. Its fairly easy to make an encounter that has mobs of cr0 critters, the action economy makes them really dangerous, but if the party works out a plan, thry can funnel them, and the sorcerer is the happiest player of the group at that moment.
", it also gives all your melee allies advantage for a whole round "
Faerie Fire can give everyone advantage for a minute on all the targets in a 20dt cube. And its level 1. Granted, command can target specific crestures which is useful if your party is all mixed in with the baddies. But if advantage is what you want, throw faerie fire first turn before its all ajumble, and you probably got 3 targets and for several rounds.and theres only the one save they get to make.
And its a level.1 spell.
If your dm has combat start at severely close range so the baddies are intrmingled in the first round, then he's nerfing the casters. It makes sense if its a dungeon and cqb. But if every interaction is like that, theyre not giving you the chance to play smart.
In a dungeon, point man should have devil sight for best perception checks, and high stealth, possibly invisibility, or darkvision and any feature or magic item that gives advantage on perception checks so they can at least roll not at disadvantage. And then you want high initiative so you can go first and do that faerie fire before the badies move. Sentinel shield gives advantage on perception checks and initiative.
A warlock with lessons of the first ones can pick up proficiency in all the skills, have devil sight, and cast incisible any time they are in darkness.
Or gloomstalker ranger is auto invisible anytime they ar in dim light, and they get expertise so they can be really good at stealthing around.
Do that and you should perception check the baddies before theyre on top of yoh, and ready faerie fire for when they hit the first corner.
Regarding ending hypnotic pattern on 3 allies, one solution is magic missile, sure each allie gets 1d4+1 damage but by the time you get ot level 5 that is pretty negligible. AOEs could also work but generally would do more damage.
Regarding command and suggestion the OP was talking about 2014 rules. Command has been significantly boosted in 2024 rules in that there is no mention of the target needed to understand you. In 2014 Command is useless unless you share a language with your enemy. If they are humanoid (upcast) hold person is nearly always better than command (affects one less creature for the same level but can last for multiple turns and makes them very easy to kill. I do agree however that the changes to suggestion were more about clarity about what the spell can do than buffing it.