I'm inexperienced as a player (but not a DM) and am looking to make a PC. These are the (sub)classes I'm looking at. Would anyone please offer advice? I'm not looking at just combat utility.
I'm inexperienced as a player (but not a DM) and am looking to make a PC. These are the (sub)classes I'm looking at. Would anyone please offer advice? I'm not looking at just combat utility.
cleric: grave, knowledge, tempest, war
monk: kensei, shadow
rogue: inquisitive, mastermind
Mastermind rogues, are underpowered in terms of combat. Their utility is more in the RP and social interaction elements. The benefit of the 30 foot help is great when you're with allies and such, but if the rogue is in a solo encounter. The mastermind falls short of most other rogues. RP wise, they are typically better than the other rogues though. so its a tradeoff.
Guess, getting at the question of do you want more RP focus or combat focus?
Thanks. I think I'm going to go with investigator, primarily for RP purposes, but the subclass seems like it'll be okay in combat. Do you think?
Yes. The Inquisitior has a good balance of the extra RP of a mastermind, but still having good combat effectiveness like an assassin. I've had a lot of fun with them personally.
I think you can have a real fun roleplay if you go Grave Domain Cleric with Shadow Monk just play it up as a Goth like Monk be all Emo like then surprise with spells, and Monk stuff give goblins nightmares with your creepy character lol.
Monks can be hard to justify if your roleplaying includes worldbuilding / maintaining. Where do these people come from? They cant all be all from lost monastery fortresses in the mountain of doom / desert of 1001 regrets. They also can struggle with more immediate problems unless you start with very high statistics in terms of staying alive. Then they have to choose the skills and try and figure out how the background (the useful skill pit backstop) could possibly fit into the monastic lifestyle. (especially if the character isnt already pushing 30 years old instead of the usual teen adventurers.
Grave cleric is a relaxing easy build for roleplay and with abilities that will make the party tear up at how often you save their lives and buff them. There isnt any wasted meat on that subclass.
Tempest is often stuck in combat mode. Knowledge cleric is better skipped for a wizard (for book learned rp) unless you really want the armour (which is funny because I imagine a chainshirt clad librarian with a duster in one hand and shield in the other) war combat focused but Light cleric is better off (metal mage spewing fire who can reaction defend themselves) forge cleric are better (defensive combatant - ergo more RP and require more tactical awareness + non combat megajoules of utility when you gain access to Channel divinity. Life cleric is still the better choice, CD makes them a healer even when out of spells. That frees up skills for customising your character.
Mastermind is an ally buffer at 3rd, and I appreciate people who consider the team as a whole, not just themselves.
Did you have a concept in mind or a Role / multiple roles to fill in the party?
Based only on the two clerics I've played so far, the basic cleric is good and the sub-classes are mostly RP. With that said the trickery offers some great party buffs. Between Grave and Life, Life cleric is a much better healer but Grove cleric may be more fun to RP.
One other comment, my tempest cleric (tier 2) still hasn't actually hit anything with a weapon. I've drawn it a couple of times but that is it.
Grave prevents crits on party members and bonus action stabilises at range and can double an attacks damage by the next attacker on a target - altogether a beautiful package.
Shadow monk is a very strong choice, either in its own right played pure, or as a chassis to bolt another class onto.
Monks in general consistently get abilities that respond to the most common "oh no!" moments across all levels of gameplay. Being faster than your opponents, able to fall off of things without hurting yourself, immunity to diseases, better Reflex saves (and proficiency in all saves)… it's just really hard to find a level of Monk where you're like "oh, that probably won't come up!" until after 14. On top of that, Darkness, Darkvision, Pass Without Trace, Silence, and Minor Illusion pretty much covers the spectrum of every single spell you're going to wish you had prepared in a stealth situation, and you've got them all on hand from level 3. Shadow Step at 6 is amazing, because shadows are everywhere and movement is always relevant. So is 11, because being invisible is always useful at all tiers and strategies!
The level 15 monk ability that slows aging is the first level where monk feels situational/fluffy, and luckily the level 17 shadow capstone feels niche as well. 18 monk is redundant with 11 shadow, the capstone is unnecessary... if you can live with 1d8 punches instead of 1d10, you lose very very little for stopping at 14. On top of that, Shadow monk is one of the subclasses that doesn't lean on Wisdom at all, so all you lose by leaving Wisdom at 13 is the need to get your AC elsewhere and less reliable stunning strikes. That leaves you at least 6 levels free to mix in a substantial multiclass splash, with plenty of stat points to share around... and again, you really can stop monk at any point earlier and still have come out of things with some great backup abilities that will always be useful to have in your back pocket.
A Shadow Monk 14/EB-focused warlock 6 is one of the most "overpowered" combos I can think of (you're the best at attacking from range, and the best at attacking up close, and the best at escaping combat, and and and.... ), but you can get some good mileage out of anything that introduces a multi-tier trick. Inquisitive Rogue in particular would make an outstanding multiclass with a shadow monk, letting you justify putting all stats into dex/con/wis , making you far tankier with Uncanny Dodge, giving you a nice DPS boost with sneak attack, and rounding out your ninja-ness with great Expertise bonuses and bonus proficiencies....
Honestly a Shadow Monk 14/Inquisitive 6 is probably one of the most self-sufficient, well rounded, satisfying to play characters I can think of!
Shadow Monk is a great stealth character, and Tempest Clerics are widely considered to be some of the best blasters in the game. I'm a little underwhelmed by both Rogue subclasses, but they're great for RP purposes. One of the characters I want to try out most is to take Rogue 3 to get Mastermind and then go Illusion Wizard all the way. The 3rd level benefit for that Bonus Action ranged Help is great, but doesn't offer much more past 3rd level that's really all that great. I think Inquisitive as well pairs well in multiclass, particularly as someone said above with Shadow Monk, though I think Cleric (with the WIS needs) works well, too.
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I'm inexperienced as a player (but not a DM) and am looking to make a PC. These are the (sub)classes I'm looking at. Would anyone please offer advice? I'm not looking at just combat utility.
cleric: grave, knowledge, tempest, war
monk: kensei, shadow
rogue: inquisitive, mastermind
Mastermind rogues, are underpowered in terms of combat. Their utility is more in the RP and social interaction elements. The benefit of the 30 foot help is great when you're with allies and such, but if the rogue is in a solo encounter. The mastermind falls short of most other rogues. RP wise, they are typically better than the other rogues though. so its a tradeoff.
Guess, getting at the question of do you want more RP focus or combat focus?
Blank
Thanks. I think I'm going to go with investigator, primarily for RP purposes, but the subclass seems like it'll be okay in combat. Do you think?
Yes. The Inquisitior has a good balance of the extra RP of a mastermind, but still having good combat effectiveness like an assassin. I've had a lot of fun with them personally.
Blank
I think you can have a real fun roleplay if you go Grave Domain Cleric with Shadow Monk just play it up as a Goth like Monk be all Emo like then surprise with spells, and Monk stuff give goblins nightmares with your creepy character lol.
Monks can be hard to justify if your roleplaying includes worldbuilding / maintaining. Where do these people come from? They cant all be all from lost monastery fortresses in the mountain of doom / desert of 1001 regrets. They also can struggle with more immediate problems unless you start with very high statistics in terms of staying alive. Then they have to choose the skills and try and figure out how the background (the useful skill pit backstop) could possibly fit into the monastic lifestyle. (especially if the character isnt already pushing 30 years old instead of the usual teen adventurers.
Grave cleric is a relaxing easy build for roleplay and with abilities that will make the party tear up at how often you save their lives and buff them. There isnt any wasted meat on that subclass.
Tempest is often stuck in combat mode. Knowledge cleric is better skipped for a wizard (for book learned rp) unless you really want the armour (which is funny because I imagine a chainshirt clad librarian with a duster in one hand and shield in the other) war combat focused but Light cleric is better off (metal mage spewing fire who can reaction defend themselves) forge cleric are better (defensive combatant - ergo more RP and require more tactical awareness + non combat megajoules of utility when you gain access to Channel divinity. Life cleric is still the better choice, CD makes them a healer even when out of spells. That frees up skills for customising your character.
Mastermind is an ally buffer at 3rd, and I appreciate people who consider the team as a whole, not just themselves.
Did you have a concept in mind or a Role / multiple roles to fill in the party?
Based only on the two clerics I've played so far, the basic cleric is good and the sub-classes are mostly RP. With that said the trickery offers some great party buffs. Between Grave and Life, Life cleric is a much better healer but Grove cleric may be more fun to RP.
One other comment, my tempest cleric (tier 2) still hasn't actually hit anything with a weapon. I've drawn it a couple of times but that is it.
Grave prevents crits on party members and bonus action stabilises at range and can double an attacks damage by the next attacker on a target - altogether a beautiful package.
Shadow monk is a very strong choice, either in its own right played pure, or as a chassis to bolt another class onto.
Monks in general consistently get abilities that respond to the most common "oh no!" moments across all levels of gameplay. Being faster than your opponents, able to fall off of things without hurting yourself, immunity to diseases, better Reflex saves (and proficiency in all saves)… it's just really hard to find a level of Monk where you're like "oh, that probably won't come up!" until after 14. On top of that, Darkness, Darkvision, Pass Without Trace, Silence, and Minor Illusion pretty much covers the spectrum of every single spell you're going to wish you had prepared in a stealth situation, and you've got them all on hand from level 3. Shadow Step at 6 is amazing, because shadows are everywhere and movement is always relevant. So is 11, because being invisible is always useful at all tiers and strategies!
The level 15 monk ability that slows aging is the first level where monk feels situational/fluffy, and luckily the level 17 shadow capstone feels niche as well. 18 monk is redundant with 11 shadow, the capstone is unnecessary... if you can live with 1d8 punches instead of 1d10, you lose very very little for stopping at 14. On top of that, Shadow monk is one of the subclasses that doesn't lean on Wisdom at all, so all you lose by leaving Wisdom at 13 is the need to get your AC elsewhere and less reliable stunning strikes. That leaves you at least 6 levels free to mix in a substantial multiclass splash, with plenty of stat points to share around... and again, you really can stop monk at any point earlier and still have come out of things with some great backup abilities that will always be useful to have in your back pocket.
A Shadow Monk 14/EB-focused warlock 6 is one of the most "overpowered" combos I can think of (you're the best at attacking from range, and the best at attacking up close, and the best at escaping combat, and and and.... ), but you can get some good mileage out of anything that introduces a multi-tier trick. Inquisitive Rogue in particular would make an outstanding multiclass with a shadow monk, letting you justify putting all stats into dex/con/wis , making you far tankier with Uncanny Dodge, giving you a nice DPS boost with sneak attack, and rounding out your ninja-ness with great Expertise bonuses and bonus proficiencies....
Honestly a Shadow Monk 14/Inquisitive 6 is probably one of the most self-sufficient, well rounded, satisfying to play characters I can think of!
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Shadow Monk is a great stealth character, and Tempest Clerics are widely considered to be some of the best blasters in the game. I'm a little underwhelmed by both Rogue subclasses, but they're great for RP purposes. One of the characters I want to try out most is to take Rogue 3 to get Mastermind and then go Illusion Wizard all the way. The 3rd level benefit for that Bonus Action ranged Help is great, but doesn't offer much more past 3rd level that's really all that great. I think Inquisitive as well pairs well in multiclass, particularly as someone said above with Shadow Monk, though I think Cleric (with the WIS needs) works well, too.