Because thematically it’s my favorite and one of the coolest Sorcerer options (tied with Dragon and Divine Soul), but mechanically it’s lacking what with most of its features dependent one a once a day ability.
so here ass my thoughts for changes, I’d love feedback:
Fire Starter:
At 1st level, you gain the ability to start fires with a touch. As an action, you can magically ignite a a flammable object you touch with your hand—an object such as a torch, a piece of tinder, or the hem of drapes. Additionally when you learn spells you may chose a spell from any spell list as long as that spell deals fire damage.
Mantle of Flame:
Starting at 1st level, you can unleash the phoenix fire that blazes within you. As a bonus action, you magically wreathe yourself in swirling fire, as your eyes glow like hot coals. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits: * Resistance to Cold damage * You shed bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet. * Any creature takes fire damage equal to your Charisma modifier if it hits you with a melee attack from within 5 feet of you, touches you, or ends its turn within 5 feet of you * Whenever you roll fire damage on your turn, the roll gains a bonus to equal to your Charisma modifier. You gain an additional use at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.
Phoenix Spark:
You gain resistance to fire damage. The fiery energy within you grows restless and vengeful. In the face of defeat, it surges outward to preserve you in a fiery roar. If you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction to draw on the spark of the phoenix. You are instead reduced to 1 hit point, and each creature within 10 feet of you takes fire damage equal to half your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier. If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, This feature instead deals fire damage equal to your sorcerer level + double your Charisma modifier, you regain hit points equal to the damage your Mantle can deal to a single character, and your Mantle of Flame immediately ends. Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
(the wording on this one might be weird but you’re suppose to regain hit points equal to sorcerer level + double your Charisma modifier. At 18th level it’ll also gain the additional 20 maxing out at 50 hit points = 20 lvls +10 for double Cha + 20)
Norishing Fire:
Starting at 14th level, your fire spells soothe and restore you. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll, you regain hit points equal to the slot’s level + your Charisma modifier.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, this feature instead regains hit points equal to the slot’s level + double your Charisma modifier.
Form of the Phoenix:
while under the effect of your Mantle of Flame feature, you gain additional benefits: * You have a flying speed of 40 feet and can hover. * You have resistance to all damage. * You gain a bonus to your AC and saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier * If you use your Phoenix Spark, that feature deals an extra 20 fire damage to each creature, affected creatures are pushed back 10ft and knocked prone
* It's a Fire-Centric class. This significantly reduces its effectiveness against Fire resistant and immune enemies. * 2 of the 4 features are dependent on the first feature, Mantle of Flame. Having multiple features revolve around a single feature can cause issues if that feature isn't available for any reason and is generally regarded as bad design. * Scorching ray becomes drastically overpowered with Mantle of Flame, as does any fire spell that splits it's damage, because the wording suggests that each separate damage total is boosted by a CHA modifier.
Here are some things I've considered to get around Fire Resistance and Fire Immunity
Adding a secondary effect to an existing Feature that lets you expend 1 sorcery point per dice to change it from Fire to Radiant damage. Alternatively, letting you use a bonus action to change one fire damage dice roll from Fire to Radiant.
Having a second damage type you can depend on boosts your versatility.
Adding a secondary effect to an existing Feature that lets you impose disadvantage to saving rolls on any creature that is Fire Resistant or Fire Immune. Alternatively, impose a cost of 1 sorcery point per spell slot of the spell in order to do this.
Being able to charm, banish, stun or otherwise disable Fire Immune and Fire Resistant enemies gives you another means to overcome them.
For Mantle of Flame: Change the wording of the Fire Damage boost from "Whenever you roll fire damage on your turn (...)" to "The first time you roll fire damage on your turn (...)" This prevents split damage totals gaining +5 modifiers, such as Scorching Ray or Fireball.
Revamp Phoenix Spark. Allow it to revive the player with 1 hit point, but alter its secondary effect. Some Ideas: Reduce the range from 10 feet to 5 feet. Require a saving throw. Until the end of the Sorcerer's next turn, all healing magic on the Sorcerer is increased by the Sorcerer's CHA modifier. The bonus of Nourishing Flames is also increased from the slot's level + their CHA modifier to the slot's level + double their CHA modifier.
There are also some points in the DMG I would like to cover. There's a section on building classes and subclasses. One of those sections mentions how there are some pratfalls when you make a feature that is improved as the player hits certain levels. It can cause some levels to feel like a rather large boost.
At 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, and 15th level of Sorcerer you gain your next magic tier. While I don't think gaining a Mantle Use hurts this power balance, it's worth being aware of.
By chance have you considered making Mantle consume a first level spell slot? This allows it to be usable at level 1 and increases the amount of times you can use it, but iwth a cost attached. There's plenty of potential issues around this, but is another means of increasing Mantle's usefulness. while also indirectly making it tied to Sorcerer points.
As for some of your edits:
Mantle of Flame does make them seem more reckless and dangerous, but also makes them unnecessarily hazardous to the party. Especially when you add something like "End your Turn near" to the target criteria of the damage. I get what the Designers were going for here in terms of RP, flavor and feel, but forcing a player to be a danger to their own party members to use their core abilities is a poor design. I promise you, the Design team is moving away from that, and you should as well.
Resistance can be a very strong benefit. But it actually goes contrary to the design of the Subclass outlined in the UA description. " More importantly, this gift comes with no special protection from fire. You are as vulnerable as any other creature to fiery magic, including your own."
I get what you were going for with the Resurrecting HP of Phoenix Spark, yet I'm worried it might be a little too powerful. Especially when combined with Mantle of Flame's 50 Damage, 10 foot AoE (No Save) at level 20. It makes your 18th Level even more of a 1 to 100 boost. Something that was touched on and a concern in the thread previously linked. This feature is also marginally better than any of the other subclass's final feature when you now have multiple uses of it.
Also was there really a reason to make Nourishing Flame more powerful with Mantle of Flame, furthering the dependency the player has on that ability to be optimized?
Same goes for the AC bonus of Form of Phoenix.
Over all, I think you added a bit too many boosts to the Phoenix Sorcerer, but I think you have some interested ideas otherwise that can be tweaked.
I think it's important to consider what the designers were going for as well. The designers have stated often that they always focus on the feel and sensation of playing a certain archetype and class. It's important to always embody that when designing. How can you capture reckless and unrefined power while simultaneously not making a character a hazard to their team?
* It's a Fire-Centric class. This significantly reduces its effectiveness against Fire resistant and immune enemies. * 2 of the 4 features are dependent on the first feature, Mantle of Flame. Having multiple features revolve around a single feature can cause issues if that feature isn't available for any reason and is generally regarded as bad design. * Scorching ray becomes drastically overpowered with Mantle of Flame, as does any fire spell that splits it's damage, because the wording suggests that each separate damage total is boosted by a CHA modifier.
Here are some things I've considered to get around Fire Resistance and Fire Immunity
Adding a secondary effect to an existing Feature that lets you expend 1 sorcery point per dice to change it from Fire to Radiant damage. Alternatively, letting you use a bonus action to change one fire damage dice roll from Fire to Radiant.
Having a second damage type you can depend on boosts your versatility.
Adding a secondary effect to an existing Feature that lets you impose disadvantage to saving rolls on any creature that is Fire Resistant or Fire Immune. Alternatively, impose a cost of 1 sorcery point per spell slot of the spell in order to do this.
Being able to charm, banish, stun or otherwise disable Fire Immune and Fire Resistant enemies gives you another means to overcome them.
For Mantle of Flame: Change the wording of the Fire Damage boost from "Whenever you roll fire damage on your turn (...)" to "The first time you roll fire damage on your turn (...)" This prevents split damage totals gaining +5 modifiers, such as Scorching Ray or Fireball.
Revamp Phoenix Spark. Allow it to revive the player with 1 hit point, but alter its secondary effect. Some Ideas: Reduce the range from 10 feet to 5 feet. Require a saving throw. Until the end of the Sorcerer's next turn, all healing magic on the Sorcerer is increased by the Sorcerer's CHA modifier. The bonus of Nourishing Flames is also increased from the slot's level + their CHA modifier to the slot's level + double their CHA modifier.
There are also some points in the DMG I would like to cover. There's a section on building classes and subclasses. One of those sections mentions how there are some pratfalls when you make a feature that is improved as the player hits certain levels. It can cause some levels to feel like a rather large boost.
At 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, and 15th level of Sorcerer you gain your next magic tier. While I don't think gaining a Mantle Use hurts this power balance, it's worth being aware of.
By chance have you considered making Mantle consume a first level spell slot? This allows it to be usable at level 1 and increases the amount of times you can use it, but iwth a cost attached. There's plenty of potential issues around this, but is another means of increasing Mantle's usefulness. while also indirectly making it tied to Sorcerer points.
As for some of your edits:
Mantle of Flame does make them seem more reckless and dangerous, but also makes them unnecessarily hazardous to the party. Especially when you add something like "End your Turn near" to the target criteria of the damage. I get what the Designers were going for here in terms of RP, flavor and feel, but forcing a player to be a danger to their own party members to use their core abilities is a poor design. I promise you, the Design team is moving away from that, and you should as well.
Resistance can be a very strong benefit. But it actually goes contrary to the design of the Subclass outlined in the UA description. " More importantly, this gift comes with no special protection from fire. You are as vulnerable as any other creature to fiery magic, including your own."
I get what you were going for with the Resurrecting HP of Phoenix Spark, yet I'm worried it might be a little too powerful. Especially when combined with Mantle of Flame's 50 Damage, 10 foot AoE (No Save) at level 20. It makes your 18th Level even more of a 1 to 100 boost. Something that was touched on and a concern in the thread previously linked. This feature is also marginally better than any of the other subclass's final feature when you now have multiple uses of it.
Also was there really a reason to make Nourishing Flame more powerful with Mantle of Flame, furthering the dependency the player has on that ability to be optimized?
Same goes for the AC bonus of Form of Phoenix.
Over all, I think you added a bit too many boosts to the Phoenix Sorcerer, but I think you have some interested ideas otherwise that can be tweaked.
I think it's important to consider what the designers were going for as well. The designers have stated often that they always focus on the feel and sensation of playing a certain archetype and class. It's important to always embody that when designing. How can you capture reckless and unrefined power while simultaneously not making a character a hazard to their team?
So first off I’d really like to say Thank You for giving me feed back. I’d never seen that thread before and between that and what you said I already figured out some changes that need to be made.
I’m going to try to address all the topics/concerns but im going to go in the order that I think will make the most sense for the topics to come later so bare with me.
1) Phoenix Sorcerer while flavor wise remains unearthed arcana because it isn’t not complete. By that I mean simply they took the feedback given, guaged interest and decided not to put it in their most recent books as they did not have a clear way to fix it. That means a) things need to be changed/some concepts don’t pan out as should and b) some ideas might just outright need to be scraped in favor of others much like they didn’t between Favored Soul and the official version Divine Soul
2) Mantle of Flame. There’s nothing wrong with having most/all of a specific path’s based on a single feature, look at Barbarian Frenzied Path or Druid circle of the Moon. The key is they have to have the ability to use that key feature more than once. Barbarians start with 2 and get more uses up to unlimited. Druids only have 2, but get them back on a short rest. I might go a similar route as Druid with the flat 2, but I thought more as you level was a decent compromise as you are still mastering your powers
I view Phoenix Sorcerer like the Barbarian of the Sorcerer path raw primal power, and both share bonus damage. Scorching Ray is very powerful with it active as it adds to each Ray, but Fireball is a single roll so it’s simply 1 roll + Cha damage. With a save for Half. An extra 5 damage can be nice but not going to be game breaking on a fireball where you literally could roll that extra 5 damage if you just rolled better.
Ending within 5 feet of you hurting your allies is bad though and will be removed.
While the resistances may seem contrary to the outline at first glance the 18th level feature gives global resistance so obviously protection does develop. It also just makes the least sense in their outline and is a concept that should of been scrape. Giving lower ones earlier isn’t game breaking, but I’m going to the them to the Mantle so you only have it when it’s activate.
3. Spark of the Phoenix is still limited to once per long rest no matter how many times you can activate the Mantle. Adding the healing effect I feel is much more thematic and at high level the possibility of healing 50 hit points is nice, but not even close to unheard of when other classes can heal up to half their hit point maximum (easily more than 50). I do like the idea of adding a saving throw to it though.
4. Nourishing Flames was good as is, but I figured if we aren’t going Mantle boosting all your features why leave that one out? It also fits on theme that summoning your inner Phoenix just make sure everything better.
5. Forum of The Phoenix does give more than the other 18th level abilities though Storm Sorcerer comes close. It could be Sorcerery triggered similar to Shadow Sorcerer. So that you can only activate it when you’re mantle is up by expending 5 points. that would limit it not only by blow mantles you have available but also how’ve many points you have.
The AC bonus was simply because spellcasters have crap AC, resistance to damage is nice, but its much nice right if you’re not constantly getting hit. Also give some you the option of being a more fighter Sorcerer utilizing spell skills like green flame blade and the likes.
6. Yes it’s Fire Centric, so is a Dragonsoul Sorcerer if you choose Red or Gold. And caster worth their salt will take some flexible spells like Chromatic Orb, Dragon’s breath, or Cantrips that do other damage to get around fire immunity or resistance. On top of that their isn’t a feat that allows you to ignore resistance which is great. Over all though I feel like anyone playing an elemental based caster has to be prepared that sometimes that element will never amazing (against trolls Force example) and sometimes it’s gonna be useless (against a fire giant for example). I backed by personal build with some lightening spells cause I’m a fan of Avatar the last air bender, and fire benders could also use lightening, but anything could be of use.
Seems like you have an idea of where you want to take your own Archetype.
I've started to come to the conclusion that a good chunk of the original Archetype is poorly constructed.
The only way to fix it is to separate all pieces of the current UA Archetype, break the pieces down, and put them on the table with some new pieces and start rebuilding the current Phoenix Sorcerer.
Breaking the pieces down is simple. Just remove the components and rules that make up a particular feature.
From there you can rearrange everything as you see fit.
So anyways, I will point out that: " There’s nothing wrong with having most/all of a specific path’s based on a single feature, look at Barbarian Frenzied Path or Druid circle of the Moon."
May be the incorrect way to look at the problem. Sorcery points are a single feature. Frenzy is a single feature. Flurry of Blows is a single feature. Wild Shape is a single feature. But those are all Class features, whereas Mantle of Flame is an Archetype feature.
A class feature can be supported by both the archetype and class features. An archetype's feature can only be supported by the archetype's other features, and runs the risk of competing with the Class's primary feature. It's always a good idea to look at some of the other Sorcerer builds and see how they support the core mechanics of being a Sorcerer while giving it a distinct feel. Player's can get a large amount of sorcery points. Metamagic is great, but I think most Archetypes of the Sorcerer should make use of the Sorcerer's large pool of Sorcerer points. After all, Sorcerer Points are the Core Class Feature of the Sorcerer.
Also, I want to double down on discouraging the AC Bonus of your Phoenix Sorcerer. It goes against the concept of Bounded Accuracy, which is an important part of the design in 5e. Unlike D&D 3.x and AC, D&D 5e has much tighter control of AC due to Bounded Accuracy being a core part of the design. Also, I think you're really underestimating the power you're giving to the Final Ability of the Phoenix Sorcerer.
One struggle of this build is that Mantle of Flame is a short range ability for part of it's damage. That short range suggests that the player should be in the front row. However, there are no ancillary features of the sorcerer to support this role.
I believe part of a Phoenix's most notable features are it's self-immolation, resurrection, flight and aura of fire. Those should be core to the build.
If you were to move Mantle of Flame to a later level, it would redefine the position the Phoenix Sorcerer should be and remove a constraining dependency to rebuild the class into a frontline fighter. This requires removing the Archetype's dependency on Mantle of Flame and replacing it with another feature. Healing per spell might be too powerful at a lower level, so the acclaimed Nourishing Flame is out of the picture. And a skill that requires you to drop to 1 hitpoint is rather limited in use, and would make for a poor level 1 ability.
So a new skill may need to be reconstructed.
There's a chance I might sit down some time soon here and create thread to discuss a proper fix for UA Phoenix Sorcerer which doesn't merely suggest minor tweaks to it's features, but breaks down the Archetype and rebuilds it.
I think the reason that the designers over at WotC are taking a long time with this build is because they aren't tweaking it. They're rebuilding it. That's what's needed for the Archetype to move forward. I have a background and extensive knowledge of game design. So I figure I can take a crack at it.
So anyways, I will point out that: " There’s nothing wrong with having most/all of a specific path’s based on a single feature, look at Barbarian Frenzied Path or Druid circle of the Moon."
May be the incorrect way to look at the problem. Sorcery points are a single feature. Frenzy is a single feature. Flurry of Blows is a single feature. Wild Shape is a single feature. But those are all Class features, whereas Mantle of Flame is an Archetype feature.
A class feature can be supported by both the archetype and class features. An archetype's feature can only be supported by the archetype's other features, and runs the risk of competing with the Class's primary feature. It's always a good idea to look at some of the other Sorcerer builds and see how they support the core mechanics of being a Sorcerer while giving it a distinct feel. Player's can get a large amount of sorcery points. Metamagic is great, but I think most Archetypes of the Sorcerer should make use of the Sorcerer's large pool of Sorcerer points. After all, Sorcerer Points are the Core Class Feature of the Sorcerer.
Also, I want to double down on discouraging the AC Bonus of your Phoenix Sorcerer. It goes against the concept of Bounded Accuracy, which is an important part of the design in 5e. Unlike D&D 3.x and AC, D&D 5e has much tighter control of AC due to Bounded Accuracy being a core part of the design. Also, I think you're really underestimating the power you're giving to the Final Ability of the Phoenix Sorcerer.
So I think you are confusing Distinguishing Class feature with Core Class feature.
Core Class feature is what makes the class functional. In the case of main casters it is Spells. Wizard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer etc. the Core feature are their spells.
their distinguishing features are: which spells the have acesss to, and things like Channel Divinity, Wild Shape, Spellbook, Sorcerer Points.
theres a big reason why none of the Sorcerer Archtypes arent more Sorcerey point involved and here it is:
Most D&D games don’t last. Yes there are some that go on for years going from level 1 to 20 and beyond (for older editions that use epic levels.), but for many life gets in the way, DM’s get burnt out, scheduling becomes to difficult, players move, etc, so it’s not uncommon for games to start and stop still in the fledgling levels 1-6.
Because of this game designers have to focus on making the early levels of a class as enjoyable as possible while still keeping game balance and of course leaving things for late level for those games that get there.
Sorcerers eventually get a large number of Sorcery points, making at early levels they barely have any. If every or even most Archetype features with point dependent it would be the same issue as mantle of Flame where they’d be able to use them like once a day.
While using distinguishing class features to make my point about Mantle of Flame may not have been the greatest idea, I do not think it’s completely invalidated in the case of Druid Circle of the Moon. That is an Archtype that is 100% dependent on a single feature with finite amount of uses.
a better however example is Wizard Bladesinger which introduces Bladesong and makes all of the archtype abilities based on having Bladesong active. And this is a Wizard if the coast approved Archtype that’s in a book, not a defunct UA class. Which means an Archtype can introduce and sustain a new ability if treated correctly.
On top of that it gives an AC boost equal to Intelligence a wizards primary spell casting modifer starting at 2nd level. So bounded accuracy being disrupted by such a feature is not an issue, especially if that feature is coming at 18th level. However what I did not consider and will be adding in is armor restrictions in order to have the mantle up, so you don’t have a Sorcerer in full plate also adding to their AC based on their CHA modifier.
2 uses that refresh after a short or long rest seems to be the best medium for such a Archtype dependent feature.
The arcane magic you command is infused with elemental fire. You can speak, read, and write Primordial. Knowing this language allows you to understand and be understood by those who speak its dialects: Ignan, Aquan, Auran, and Terran.
With a touch you can start fires. As an action you can magically ignite a flammable object you touch with your hand.
Mantle of Flame:
Starting at 1st level, you can unleash the phoenix fire that blazes within provided that you aren’t wearung medium or heavy armor or using a shield. As a bonus action, you magically wreathe yourself in swirling fire, as your eyes glow like hot coals. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits:
*Advantage on Intimidate checks * Resistance to Fire damage * You shed bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet. * Any creature with 5 feet of you takes fire damage equal to your Charisma modifier if it hits you with a melee attack, or if it touches you. * Whenever you roll fire damage on your turn, the roll gains a bonus to equal to your Charisma modifier.
You can use this feature twice. You regain all expended uses of it when you finish a short or long rest.
Rise From The Ashes: Starting at 6th level The fiery energy within you grows restless and vengeful. In the face of defeat, it surges outward to preserve you in a fiery roar. If you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction to draw on the spark of the phoenix. You are instead reduced to 1 hit point, and each creature within 10 feet of you must make a dexterity saving throw against your spell DC. A creature take fire damage equal to your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier on a failed save and half as much damage on a successful one.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, you regain hit points equal to your Sorcerer level + your Charisma modifer and your Mantle of Flame immediately ends.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
Flames of the Phoenix:
Starting at 14th level, your fire spells soothe and restore you. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll, you regain hit points equal to the slot’s level + your Charisma modifier.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, your fire damage ignores resistances and deals half damage to creatures immune to fire.
Form of the Phoenix:
You’ve learned to manifest the full fury of the Phoenix. When you activate your Mantle of Flame feature, you can spend 5 Sorcery points to gain additional benefits:
* You have a flying speed of 60 feet and can hover. * You have immunity To Fire damage and resistance to all other damage. * You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Charisma modifier * If you use your Phoenix Spark, that feature deals an extra 20 fire damage and on failed save creatures are pushed back 10ft and knocked prone
Because thematically it’s my favorite and one of the coolest Sorcerer options (tied with Dragon and Divine Soul), but mechanically it’s lacking what with most of its features dependent one a once a day ability.
so here ass my thoughts for changes, I’d love feedback:
Fire Starter:
At 1st level, you gain the ability to start fires with a touch. As an action, you can magically ignite a a flammable object you touch with your hand—an object such as a torch, a piece of tinder, or the hem of drapes. Additionally when you learn spells you may chose a spell from any spell list as long as that spell deals fire damage.
Mantle of Flame:
Starting at 1st level, you can unleash the phoenix fire that blazes within you. As a bonus action, you magically wreathe yourself in swirling fire, as your eyes glow like hot coals. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits: * Resistance to Cold damage * You shed bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet. * Any creature takes fire damage equal to your Charisma modifier if it hits you with a melee attack from within 5 feet of you, touches you, or ends its turn within 5 feet of you * Whenever you roll fire damage on your turn, the roll gains a bonus to equal to your Charisma modifier. You gain an additional use at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.
Phoenix Spark:
You gain resistance to fire damage. The fiery energy within you grows restless and vengeful. In the face of defeat, it surges outward to preserve you in a fiery roar. If you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction to draw on the spark of the phoenix. You are instead reduced to 1 hit point, and each creature within 10 feet of you takes fire damage equal to half your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier. If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, This feature instead deals fire damage equal to your sorcerer level + double your Charisma modifier, you regain hit points equal to the damage your Mantle can deal to a single character, and your Mantle of Flame immediately ends. Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
(the wording on this one might be weird but you’re suppose to regain hit points equal to sorcerer level + double your Charisma modifier. At 18th level it’ll also gain the additional 20 maxing out at 50 hit points = 20 lvls +10 for double Cha + 20)
Norishing Fire:
Starting at 14th level, your fire spells soothe and restore you. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll, you regain hit points equal to the slot’s level + your Charisma modifier.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, this feature instead regains hit points equal to the slot’s level + double your Charisma modifier.
Form of the Phoenix:
while under the effect of your Mantle of Flame feature, you gain additional benefits: * You have a flying speed of 40 feet and can hover. * You have resistance to all damage. * You gain a bonus to your AC and saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier * If you use your Phoenix Spark, that feature deals an extra 20 fire damage to each creature, affected creatures are pushed back 10ft and knocked prone
after playing the class for a 12 hour slog at 6-8 level we did find that over an “adventuring day” it was hard going to not use Mof and deal the extra damage , my Dm pitted us against demons to make it fare to the others but tbh I only felt there resistances to fire made the class more of a challenge at low level , the only major change I did to my sorcerer is add a free fire cantrip, fireball as know spell at 6th level , firestorm at 14th & meteor swarm 18th as I did feel that would ease the 15 spell restriction and free up three spells for later play & all being fire they fitted with the class well , I also double the healing off your charisma mod so the class dose not fall at later level when every one can heal them selfs like you others have said. Over all I hope it dose become proper content but having be shelved for this long I’m doughtful
This is something that my Dm let me use to balance things out please let me know what you think of the changes.
Born from Fire:
The arcane magic you command is infused with elemental fire. You can speak, read, and write Primordial. Knowing this language allows you to understand and be understood by those who speak its dialects: Ignan, Aquan, Auran, and Terran.
With a touch you can start fires. As an action you can magically ignite a flammable object you touch with your hand.
Mantle of Flame:
Starting at 1st level, you can unleash the phoenix fire that blazes within provided that you aren’t wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield. As a bonus action, you magically wreathe yourself in swirling fire, as your eyes glow like hot coals. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits:
*Advantage on Intimidate checks
* Resistance to Fire damage
* You shed bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet.
* Any creature with 5 feet of you takes fire damage equal to your Charisma modifier if it hits you with a melee attack, or if it touches you.
* Whenever you roll fire damage on your turn, the roll gains a bonus to equal to your Charisma modifier.
You can use this feature twice. You regain all expended uses of it when you finish a short or long rest. And gain additional uses 1 at lv.5, 2 at lv.11, and 3 at lv.18.
Rise From The Ashes:
Starting at 6th level The fiery energy within you grows restless and vengeful. In the face of defeat, it surges outward to preserve you in a fiery roar.
If you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction to draw on the spark of the phoenix. You are instead reduced to 1 hit point, and each creature within 10 feet of you must make a dexterity saving throw against your spell DC. A creature take fire damage equal to your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier on a failed save and half as much damage on a successful one.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, you regain hit points equal to your Sorcerer level + your Charisma modifer and your Mantle of Flame immediately ends.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
Consuming Fire
Starting at level 8, you learn to consume your own life force too fuel your phoenix Flames. While Mantle of flames is active you can role for additional fire damage, the dice type depends on spell level; Cantrip _ (1d4), 1st - 2nd _ ( 1d8), 3rd - 4th _ (2d6), 5th - 7th _ (2d10), 8th - 9th _ (2d12) plus Charisma modifier to any spell you cast, at the cost of taking damage equal to your level plus your Charisma modifier and dice typed rolled. Additionally you can activate Mantle of flames when out of charge by taking damage equal to 1/12th of your hp rounded down, in addition to when you use this ability more than once your exhaustion goes up by one point each time.
Flames of the Phoenix:
Starting at 14th level, your fire spells soothe and restore you. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll, you regain hit points equal to the (slot’s level + your Charisma modifier) multiplied by the slot’s level.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, your fire damage ignores resistances and deals half damage to creatures immune to fire.
Rejuvenating Flames
Starting at level 16, you learn to channel the flames of rejuvenation. While the Mantle of the flame is active you gain the ability to heal any creatures up to 2 creatures within the limit of the light created by the mantle of flame. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll, they regain hit points equal to the (slot’s level + your Charisma modifier) multiplied by the slot’s level. If the selected creatures have full hit points then a small burst of flame deals damage equal to the amount healed in a 10ft. radius centered on the target.
Form of the Phoenix:
You’ve learned to manifest the full fury of the Phoenix. When you activate your Mantle of Flame feature, you can spend 5 Sorcery points to gain additional benefits:
* You have a flying speed of 60 feet and can hover.
* You have immunity To Fire damage and resistance to all other damage.
* You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Charisma modifier
* If you use your Phoenix Spark, that feature deals an extra 20 fire damage and on failed save creatures are pushed back 10ft and knocked prone
Born of Fire: Specify that the ability to ignite flammable objects by touching them only works on unattended objects- matches the effect of the Path of the Storm Soul Barbarian and prevents the character from simply being able to ignite an enemy's clothes.
Mantle of Flame: Not really sold on the idea that you should get advantage on Intimidate checks. I mean, sure, setting yourself on fire is scary but there are similar effects that don't gain that bonus.
Specify that adding your charisma modifier to fire damage rolls is something that only goes off once per turn to put it in line with similar effects. Otherwise, as was said earlier in the thread it makes Scorching Ray brokenly powerful.
Rise From the Ashes: You can't take reactions at 0 HP, should be an automatic effect.
Consuming Fire: Sorcerers don't even get a Sorcerous Origin feature at level 8, and this one looks unbalanced. Ditch.
Flames of the Phoenix: Insanely OP. The healing effect is far too good for any character, much less a sorcerer who isn't someone that normally has access to heals. Adding the ability to deal half damage to creatures that are immune to fire on top of that is ridiculous.
Rejuvenating Flames: Again, insanely OP and again, sorcerers don't get a Sorcerous Origin feature at 16th level. Ditch
Form of the Phoenix: When does the character even get this power? What is Phoenix Spark?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
At 1st level, you gain the ability to start fires with a touch. As an action, you can magically ignite a flammable object that is not being worn or carried you touch with your hand—an object such as a torch, a piece of tinder, or the hem of drapes.
Additionally at 5th, 9th, 13th and 17th level you may learn an additional spell from any list that deals fire damage. This spell does not count against the number of spells you know.
Mantle of Flame:
Starting at 1st level, you can unleash the phoenix fire that blazes within you. As a bonus action, you magically wreathe yourself in swirling fire, as your eyes glow like hot coals. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits:
* Resistance to Cold damage
* You shed bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet.
* Any creature takes fire damage equal to your Charisma modifier if it hits you with a melee attack from within 5 feet of you or touches you. A creature can take this damage no more than twice a turn.
* The first time you roll fire damage on your turn, the roll gains a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bounce.
Phoenix Spark:
At 6th level you gain resistance to fire damage, and fire damage you deal ignores resistance to fire damage.
From The Ashes:
Starting at 6th level you gain the following benefits.
*The fiery energy within you grows restless and vengeful. In the face of defeat, it surges outward to preserve you in a fiery roar.
*If you are reduced to 0 hit points, you draw on the spark of the phoenix. You are instead reduced to 1 hit point, and each creature within 10 feet of you takes fire damage equal to half your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier.
*If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, This feature instead deals fire damage equal to your sorcerer level + double your Charisma modifier and you regain additional hit points equal to your charisma modifier, and your Mantle of Flame immediately ends.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
Nourishing Fire:
Starting at 14th level, your fire spells soothe and restore you. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll and are below half hit points you regain hit points equal to the slot’s level + your Charisma modifier.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, this feature instead regains hit points equal to the slot’s level + half your Charisma score.
Form of the Phoenix:
Starting at 18 level, while under the effect of your Mantle of Flame feature, you gain additional benefits:
* You have a flying speed of 40 feet and can hover.
* You have resistance to all damage, and immunity to fire damage
* You gain a bonus to your AC and saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier
* If you use your Phoenix Spark, that feature deals an extra 20 fire damage to each creature, affected creatures are pushed back 10ft and knocked prone, and you regain an aditional 20 Hit Pionts
I changed the wording on the Fire Stater feature to only be unattended objects, and i gave fire spells from any class every 4 levels that don't count as spells know to free up space for other spells. I separated the Phoenix Spark into two features, Phoenix spark now gives the resistances and ignores resistance to fire for your damage, From The Ashes is the rebirth part of the original. I also changed the healing from the From The Ashes to be 1+ Cha mod. I made theNourishing Firehealing a little more, but changed it so it only function when you are at less than half health.
What I want to know is how does Form of the Phoenix affect a preexisting flight speed. I play an Aarakocra sorcerer , which already has flight speed of 50 when not wearing medium or heavy armor, so would it change the speed to 40, reducing your speed by 10, or would it increase by 40, changing the speed to 90?
What I want to know is how does Form of the Phoenix affect a preexisting flight speed. I play an Aarakocra sorcerer , which already has flight speed of 50 when not wearing medium or heavy armor, so would it change the speed to 40, reducing your speed by 10, or would it increase by 40, changing the speed to 90?
I would say it would do neither. You would just use the highest of the two abilities so 50ft.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Because thematically it’s my favorite and one of the coolest Sorcerer options (tied with Dragon and Divine Soul), but mechanically it’s lacking what with most of its features dependent one a once a day ability.
so here ass my thoughts for changes, I’d love feedback:
Fire Starter:
At 1st level, you gain the ability to start fires with a touch. As an action, you can magically ignite a a flammable object you touch with your hand—an object such as a torch, a piece of tinder, or the hem of drapes.
Additionally when you learn spells you may chose a spell from any spell list as long as that spell deals fire damage.
Mantle of Flame:
Starting at 1st level, you can unleash the phoenix fire that blazes within you. As a bonus action, you magically wreathe yourself in swirling fire, as your eyes glow like hot coals. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits:
* Resistance to Cold damage
* You shed bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet.
* Any creature takes fire damage equal to your Charisma modifier if it hits you with a melee attack from within 5 feet of you, touches you, or ends its turn within 5 feet of you
* Whenever you roll fire damage on your turn, the roll gains a bonus to equal to your Charisma modifier.
You gain an additional use at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level.
Phoenix Spark:
You gain resistance to fire damage.
The fiery energy within you grows restless and vengeful. In the face of defeat, it surges outward to preserve you in a fiery roar.
If you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction to draw on the spark of the phoenix. You are instead reduced to 1 hit point, and each creature within 10 feet of you takes fire damage equal to half your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, This feature instead deals fire damage equal to your sorcerer level + double your Charisma modifier, you regain hit points equal to the damage your Mantle can deal to a single character, and your Mantle of Flame immediately ends.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
(the wording on this one might be weird but you’re suppose to regain hit points equal to sorcerer level + double your Charisma modifier. At 18th level it’ll also gain the additional 20 maxing out at 50 hit points = 20 lvls +10 for double Cha + 20)
Norishing Fire:
Starting at 14th level, your fire spells soothe and restore you. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll, you regain hit points equal to the slot’s level + your Charisma modifier.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, this feature instead regains hit points equal to the slot’s level + double your Charisma modifier.
Form of the Phoenix:
while under the effect of your Mantle of Flame feature, you gain additional benefits:
* You have a flying speed of 40 feet and can hover.
* You have resistance to all damage.
* You gain a bonus to your AC and saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier
* If you use your Phoenix Spark, that feature deals an extra 20 fire damage to each creature, affected creatures are pushed back 10ft and knocked prone
Have you checked this thread?
It gives some insight into a few of the major issues with the UA Phoenix Sorceror:
https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/5t2wnp/sorcerer_ua_phoenix_sorcery_analysis_thread/
Three major points covered are the following:
* It's a Fire-Centric class. This significantly reduces its effectiveness against Fire resistant and immune enemies.
* 2 of the 4 features are dependent on the first feature, Mantle of Flame. Having multiple features revolve around a single feature can cause issues if that feature isn't available for any reason and is generally regarded as bad design.
* Scorching ray becomes drastically overpowered with Mantle of Flame, as does any fire spell that splits it's damage, because the wording suggests that each separate damage total is boosted by a CHA modifier.
Here are some things I've considered to get around Fire Resistance and Fire Immunity
Adding a secondary effect to an existing Feature that lets you expend 1 sorcery point per dice to change it from Fire to Radiant damage. Alternatively, letting you use a bonus action to change one fire damage dice roll from Fire to Radiant.
Having a second damage type you can depend on boosts your versatility.
Adding a secondary effect to an existing Feature that lets you impose disadvantage to saving rolls on any creature that is Fire Resistant or Fire Immune. Alternatively, impose a cost of 1 sorcery point per spell slot of the spell in order to do this.
Being able to charm, banish, stun or otherwise disable Fire Immune and Fire Resistant enemies gives you another means to overcome them.
For Mantle of Flame:
Change the wording of the Fire Damage boost from "Whenever you roll fire damage on your turn (...)" to "The first time you roll fire damage on your turn (...)"
This prevents split damage totals gaining +5 modifiers, such as Scorching Ray or Fireball.
Revamp Phoenix Spark.
Allow it to revive the player with 1 hit point, but alter its secondary effect.
Some Ideas:
Reduce the range from 10 feet to 5 feet. Require a saving throw.
Until the end of the Sorcerer's next turn, all healing magic on the Sorcerer is increased by the Sorcerer's CHA modifier. The bonus of Nourishing Flames is also increased from the slot's level + their CHA modifier to the slot's level + double their CHA modifier.
There are also some points in the DMG I would like to cover. There's a section on building classes and subclasses. One of those sections mentions how there are some pratfalls when you make a feature that is improved as the player hits certain levels. It can cause some levels to feel like a rather large boost.
At 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, and 15th level of Sorcerer you gain your next magic tier.
While I don't think gaining a Mantle Use hurts this power balance, it's worth being aware of.
By chance have you considered making Mantle consume a first level spell slot? This allows it to be usable at level 1 and increases the amount of times you can use it, but iwth a cost attached.
There's plenty of potential issues around this, but is another means of increasing Mantle's usefulness. while also indirectly making it tied to Sorcerer points.
As for some of your edits:
Mantle of Flame does make them seem more reckless and dangerous, but also makes them unnecessarily hazardous to the party. Especially when you add something like "End your Turn near" to the target criteria of the damage.
I get what the Designers were going for here in terms of RP, flavor and feel, but forcing a player to be a danger to their own party members to use their core abilities is a poor design. I promise you, the Design team is moving away from that, and you should as well.
Resistance can be a very strong benefit. But it actually goes contrary to the design of the Subclass outlined in the UA description.
" More importantly, this gift comes with no special protection from fire. You are as vulnerable as any other creature to fiery magic, including your own."
I get what you were going for with the Resurrecting HP of Phoenix Spark, yet I'm worried it might be a little too powerful. Especially when combined with Mantle of Flame's 50 Damage, 10 foot AoE (No Save) at level 20. It makes your 18th Level even more of a 1 to 100 boost. Something that was touched on and a concern in the thread previously linked.
This feature is also marginally better than any of the other subclass's final feature when you now have multiple uses of it.
Also was there really a reason to make Nourishing Flame more powerful with Mantle of Flame, furthering the dependency the player has on that ability to be optimized?
Same goes for the AC bonus of Form of Phoenix.
Over all, I think you added a bit too many boosts to the Phoenix Sorcerer, but I think you have some interested ideas otherwise that can be tweaked.
I think it's important to consider what the designers were going for as well.
The designers have stated often that they always focus on the feel and sensation of playing a certain archetype and class. It's important to always embody that when designing. How can you capture reckless and unrefined power while simultaneously not making a character a hazard to their team?
Seems like you have an idea of where you want to take your own Archetype.
I've started to come to the conclusion that a good chunk of the original Archetype is poorly constructed.
The only way to fix it is to separate all pieces of the current UA Archetype, break the pieces down, and put them on the table with some new pieces and start rebuilding the current Phoenix Sorcerer.
Breaking the pieces down is simple. Just remove the components and rules that make up a particular feature.
From there you can rearrange everything as you see fit.
So anyways, I will point out that:
" There’s nothing wrong with having most/all of a specific path’s based on a single feature, look at Barbarian Frenzied Path or Druid circle of the Moon."
May be the incorrect way to look at the problem. Sorcery points are a single feature. Frenzy is a single feature. Flurry of Blows is a single feature. Wild Shape is a single feature. But those are all Class features, whereas Mantle of Flame is an Archetype feature.
A class feature can be supported by both the archetype and class features. An archetype's feature can only be supported by the archetype's other features, and runs the risk of competing with the Class's primary feature.
It's always a good idea to look at some of the other Sorcerer builds and see how they support the core mechanics of being a Sorcerer while giving it a distinct feel.
Player's can get a large amount of sorcery points. Metamagic is great, but I think most Archetypes of the Sorcerer should make use of the Sorcerer's large pool of Sorcerer points. After all, Sorcerer Points are the Core Class Feature of the Sorcerer.
Also, I want to double down on discouraging the AC Bonus of your Phoenix Sorcerer. It goes against the concept of Bounded Accuracy, which is an important part of the design in 5e. Unlike D&D 3.x and AC, D&D 5e has much tighter control of AC due to Bounded Accuracy being a core part of the design.
Also, I think you're really underestimating the power you're giving to the Final Ability of the Phoenix Sorcerer.
One struggle of this build is that Mantle of Flame is a short range ability for part of it's damage. That short range suggests that the player should be in the front row. However, there are no ancillary features of the sorcerer to support this role.
I believe part of a Phoenix's most notable features are it's self-immolation, resurrection, flight and aura of fire. Those should be core to the build.
If you were to move Mantle of Flame to a later level, it would redefine the position the Phoenix Sorcerer should be and remove a constraining dependency to rebuild the class into a frontline fighter. This requires removing the Archetype's dependency on Mantle of Flame and replacing it with another feature.
Healing per spell might be too powerful at a lower level, so the acclaimed Nourishing Flame is out of the picture.
And a skill that requires you to drop to 1 hitpoint is rather limited in use, and would make for a poor level 1 ability.
So a new skill may need to be reconstructed.
There's a chance I might sit down some time soon here and create thread to discuss a proper fix for UA Phoenix Sorcerer which doesn't merely suggest minor tweaks to it's features, but breaks down the Archetype and rebuilds it.
I think the reason that the designers over at WotC are taking a long time with this build is because they aren't tweaking it. They're rebuilding it. That's what's needed for the Archetype to move forward.
I have a background and extensive knowledge of game design. So I figure I can take a crack at it.
We recently added a fairly basic fix to Phoenix Sorcerer in our game.
"Immediately after you use Phoenix Spark, gain the benefits of Mantle of Flame for a number of turns equal to your Charisma Modifier"
Most recent revamp:
Born from Fire:
The arcane magic you command is infused with elemental fire. You can speak, read, and write Primordial. Knowing this language allows you to understand and be understood by those who speak its dialects: Ignan, Aquan, Auran, and Terran.
With a touch you can start fires. As an action you can magically ignite a flammable object you touch with your hand.
Mantle of Flame:
Starting at 1st level, you can unleash the phoenix fire that blazes within provided that you aren’t wearung medium or heavy armor or using a shield. As a bonus action, you magically wreathe yourself in swirling fire, as your eyes glow like hot coals. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits:
*Advantage on Intimidate checks
* Resistance to Fire damage
* You shed bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet.
* Any creature with 5 feet of you takes fire damage equal to your Charisma modifier if it hits you with a melee attack, or if it touches you.
* Whenever you roll fire damage on your turn, the roll gains a bonus to equal to your Charisma modifier.
You can use this feature twice. You regain all expended uses of it when you finish a short or long rest.
Rise From The Ashes:
Starting at 6th level The fiery energy within you grows restless and vengeful. In the face of defeat, it surges outward to preserve you in a fiery roar.
If you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction to draw on the spark of the phoenix. You are instead reduced to 1 hit point, and each creature within 10 feet of you must make a dexterity saving throw against your spell DC. A creature take fire damage equal to your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier on a failed save and half as much damage on a successful one.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, you regain hit points equal to your Sorcerer level + your Charisma modifer and your Mantle of Flame immediately ends.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
Flames of the Phoenix:
Starting at 14th level, your fire spells soothe and restore you. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll, you regain hit points equal to the slot’s level + your Charisma modifier.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, your fire damage ignores resistances and deals half damage to creatures immune to fire.
Form of the Phoenix:
You’ve learned to manifest the full fury of the Phoenix. When you activate your Mantle of Flame feature, you can spend 5 Sorcery points to gain additional benefits:
* You have a flying speed of 60 feet and can hover.
* You have immunity To Fire damage and resistance to all other damage.
* You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Charisma modifier
* If you use your Phoenix Spark, that feature deals an extra 20 fire damage and on failed save creatures are pushed back 10ft and knocked prone
after playing the class for a 12 hour slog at 6-8 level we did find that over an “adventuring day” it was hard going to not use Mof and deal the extra damage , my Dm pitted us against demons to make it fare to the others but tbh I only felt there resistances to fire made the class more of a challenge at low level , the only major change I did to my sorcerer is add a free fire cantrip, fireball as know spell at 6th level , firestorm at 14th & meteor swarm 18th as I did feel that would ease the 15 spell restriction and free up three spells for later play & all being fire they fitted with the class well , I also double the healing off your charisma mod so the class dose not fall at later level when every one can heal them selfs like you others have said. Over all I hope it dose become proper content but having be shelved for this long I’m doughtful
This is something that my Dm let me use to balance things out please let me know what you think of the changes.
Born from Fire:
The arcane magic you command is infused with elemental fire. You can speak, read, and write Primordial. Knowing this language allows you to understand and be understood by those who speak its dialects: Ignan, Aquan, Auran, and Terran.
With a touch you can start fires. As an action you can magically ignite a flammable object you touch with your hand.
Mantle of Flame:
Starting at 1st level, you can unleash the phoenix fire that blazes within provided that you aren’t wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield. As a bonus action, you magically wreathe yourself in swirling fire, as your eyes glow like hot coals. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits:
*Advantage on Intimidate checks
* Resistance to Fire damage
* You shed bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet.
* Any creature with 5 feet of you takes fire damage equal to your Charisma modifier if it hits you with a melee attack, or if it touches you.
* Whenever you roll fire damage on your turn, the roll gains a bonus to equal to your Charisma modifier.
You can use this feature twice. You regain all expended uses of it when you finish a short or long rest. And gain additional uses 1 at lv.5, 2 at lv.11, and 3 at lv.18.
Rise From The Ashes:
Starting at 6th level The fiery energy within you grows restless and vengeful. In the face of defeat, it surges outward to preserve you in a fiery roar.
If you are reduced to 0 hit points, you can use your reaction to draw on the spark of the phoenix. You are instead reduced to 1 hit point, and each creature within 10 feet of you must make a dexterity saving throw against your spell DC. A creature take fire damage equal to your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier on a failed save and half as much damage on a successful one.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, you regain hit points equal to your Sorcerer level + your Charisma modifer and your Mantle of Flame immediately ends.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
Consuming Fire
Starting at level 8, you learn to consume your own life force too fuel your phoenix Flames. While Mantle of flames is active you can role for additional fire damage, the dice type depends on spell level; Cantrip _ (1d4), 1st - 2nd _ ( 1d8), 3rd - 4th _ (2d6), 5th - 7th _ (2d10), 8th - 9th _ (2d12) plus Charisma modifier to any spell you cast, at the cost of taking damage equal to your level plus your Charisma modifier and dice typed rolled. Additionally you can activate Mantle of flames when out of charge by taking damage equal to 1/12th of your hp rounded down, in addition to when you use this ability more than once your exhaustion goes up by one point each time.
Flames of the Phoenix:
Starting at 14th level, your fire spells soothe and restore you. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll, you regain hit points equal to the (slot’s level + your Charisma modifier) multiplied by the slot’s level.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, your fire damage ignores resistances and deals half damage to creatures immune to fire.
Rejuvenating Flames
Starting at level 16, you learn to channel the flames of rejuvenation. While the Mantle of the flame is active you gain the ability to heal any creatures up to 2 creatures within the limit of the light created by the mantle of flame. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll, they regain hit points equal to the (slot’s level + your Charisma modifier) multiplied by the slot’s level. If the selected creatures have full hit points then a small burst of flame deals damage equal to the amount healed in a 10ft. radius centered on the target.
Form of the Phoenix:
You’ve learned to manifest the full fury of the Phoenix. When you activate your Mantle of Flame feature, you can spend 5 Sorcery points to gain additional benefits:
* You have a flying speed of 60 feet and can hover.
* You have immunity To Fire damage and resistance to all other damage.
* You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Charisma modifier
* If you use your Phoenix Spark, that feature deals an extra 20 fire damage and on failed save creatures are pushed back 10ft and knocked prone
Okay, I'll take a crack at this:
Born of Fire: Specify that the ability to ignite flammable objects by touching them only works on unattended objects- matches the effect of the Path of the Storm Soul Barbarian and prevents the character from simply being able to ignite an enemy's clothes.
Mantle of Flame: Not really sold on the idea that you should get advantage on Intimidate checks. I mean, sure, setting yourself on fire is scary but there are similar effects that don't gain that bonus.
Specify that adding your charisma modifier to fire damage rolls is something that only goes off once per turn to put it in line with similar effects. Otherwise, as was said earlier in the thread it makes Scorching Ray brokenly powerful.
Rise From the Ashes: You can't take reactions at 0 HP, should be an automatic effect.
Consuming Fire: Sorcerers don't even get a Sorcerous Origin feature at level 8, and this one looks unbalanced. Ditch.
Flames of the Phoenix: Insanely OP. The healing effect is far too good for any character, much less a sorcerer who isn't someone that normally has access to heals. Adding the ability to deal half damage to creatures that are immune to fire on top of that is ridiculous.
Rejuvenating Flames: Again, insanely OP and again, sorcerers don't get a Sorcerous Origin feature at 16th level. Ditch
Form of the Phoenix: When does the character even get this power? What is Phoenix Spark?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Here is my take on this:
Fire Starter:
At 1st level, you gain the ability to start fires with a touch. As an action, you can magically ignite a flammable object that is not being worn or carried you touch with your hand—an object such as a torch, a piece of tinder, or the hem of drapes.
Additionally at 5th, 9th, 13th and 17th level you may learn an additional spell from any list that deals fire damage. This spell does not count against the number of spells you know.
Mantle of Flame:
Starting at 1st level, you can unleash the phoenix fire that blazes within you. As a bonus action, you magically wreathe yourself in swirling fire, as your eyes glow like hot coals. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits:
* Resistance to Cold damage
* You shed bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet.
* Any creature takes fire damage equal to your Charisma modifier if it hits you with a melee attack from within 5 feet of you or touches you. A creature can take this damage no more than twice a turn.
* The first time you roll fire damage on your turn, the roll gains a bonus equal to your Charisma modifier.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bounce.
Phoenix Spark:
At 6th level you gain resistance to fire damage, and fire damage you deal ignores resistance to fire damage.
From The Ashes:
Starting at 6th level you gain the following benefits.
*The fiery energy within you grows restless and vengeful. In the face of defeat, it surges outward to preserve you in a fiery roar.
*If you are reduced to 0 hit points, you draw on the spark of the phoenix. You are instead reduced to 1 hit point, and each creature within 10 feet of you takes fire damage equal to half your sorcerer level + your Charisma modifier.
*If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, This feature instead deals fire damage equal to your sorcerer level + double your Charisma modifier and you regain additional hit points equal to your charisma modifier, and your Mantle of Flame immediately ends.
Once you use this feature, you can’t use it again until you finish a long rest.
Nourishing Fire:
Starting at 14th level, your fire spells soothe and restore you. When you expend a spell slot to cast a spell that includes a fire damage roll and are below half hit points you regain hit points equal to the slot’s level + your Charisma modifier.
If you use this feature while under the effects of your Mantle of Flame, this feature instead regains hit points equal to the slot’s level + half your Charisma score.
Form of the Phoenix:
Starting at 18 level, while under the effect of your Mantle of Flame feature, you gain additional benefits:
* You have a flying speed of 40 feet and can hover.
* You have resistance to all damage, and immunity to fire damage
* You gain a bonus to your AC and saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier
* If you use your Phoenix Spark, that feature deals an extra 20 fire damage to each creature, affected creatures are pushed back 10ft and knocked prone, and you regain an aditional 20 Hit Pionts
I changed the wording on the Fire Stater feature to only be unattended objects, and i gave fire spells from any class every 4 levels that don't count as spells know to free up space for other spells. I separated the Phoenix Spark into two features, Phoenix spark now gives the resistances and ignores resistance to fire for your damage, From The Ashes is the rebirth part of the original. I also changed the healing from the From The Ashes to be 1+ Cha mod. I made the Nourishing Fire healing a little more, but changed it so it only function when you are at less than half health.
What I want to know is how does Form of the Phoenix affect a preexisting flight speed. I play an Aarakocra sorcerer , which already has flight speed of 50 when not wearing medium or heavy armor, so would it change the speed to 40, reducing your speed by 10, or would it increase by 40, changing the speed to 90?
I would say it would do neither. You would just use the highest of the two abilities so 50ft.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master