Your character’s Background is a collection of characteristics representing the place and occupation that were most formative for the character before they embarked on a life of adventure.
Intent vs Reality
I plan to pay a Sorcerer that started out as a Soldier. A Soldier would have some kind of weapon / armor proficiency. Let’s say Padded armor and a Spear.
When I choose the Sorcerer Class, I don’t have any of these proficiencies.
I believe this breaks the spirit of the new background intent. I have a couple of simple solutions.
Solution 1: Give everybody proficiency in 3 simple weapons of their choice and proficiency in Padded Armor or Hide Armor.
Solution 2: Add a new 1 Level Feat
Trained Warrior (1-Level Feat)
Prerequisite: None
Repeatable: No
You have been trained in the art of war, granting you proficiency in some basic armor and weaponry.
Basic Weapons: You gain weapon proficiency with Simple Weapons
Specialist: You gain proficiency with one of the following Martial Weapons of your choice (Scimitar, Shortsword, Trident, Whip, Blowgun, Net or Hand crossbow)
Basic Armor Set: You gain proficiency with Light Armor and Hide Armor
I'd say you have a background and class that don't really match. Why would your soldier suddenly become a sorcerer? A sorcerer's power is usually innate to them, so unless there was some event where they discover their power later down the line, wouldn't they more likely be some kind of battlemage else wise? Or even recruited more towards a guild of spell casters?
As for the feat you propose, it's overpowered, it gives too much. Consider that in 5E a feat was lightly armored, which gave light Armour, you're asking to basically get a form of medium Armour and some weapon proficiency on top of that.
To me, it sounds like you're trying to make a multi-class character without taking the level dip. If your DM is happy, they can homebrew this, but it's definitely overpowered for what a 1st level sorcerer should have.
Seeing as how this is probably only a sample list, there probably is a gain proficiency in armor/weapons feat at first level. We'll see how theirs is worded eventually and see what it gives.
Yes armor an weapon proficiency is op. But since Dwarfs had both an Elves had one which they are know missing I would have thought that there is at least a 1st level feat which gives you Wepon proficiency in one simple and one martial weapon and another feat that gives you any armor proficiency to replace that race feats.
Yes armor an weapon proficiency is op. But since Dwarfs had both an Elves had one which they are know missing I would have thought that there is at least a 1st level feat which gives you Wepon proficiency in one simple and one martial weapon and another feat that gives you any armor proficiency to replace that race feats.
There maybe something further down the line that gives one or the other, as Inverse_Gospel has said, we definitely aren't looking at a complete list of feats yet.
I'm all for removal of weapon/armor proficiencies on races. It was too strong of a factor for optimization. Mountain dwarf casters were exceptionally well-defended because of free proficiency with medium armor, and that's worth two feats or one level dip in a different class. I'd say armor proficiency feats should stay, although they might be merged with armor mastery feats. Martial weapon proficiency should be one separate feat, replacing weapon master that gave proficiency with only four weapons.
In general I do not have a problem with your PC idea, where I see the issue is how 5e's rules structured and that makes your idea a little tougher to create.
What I would do is create a background tailored to my idea and the class I chose. So in your case it would be Sorcerer, Solider upbringing in Region X. Then I would assign the stuff I thought would be appropriate (as a GM) to the background. Maybe 1-2 specific weapon's (do not let players pick any weapon) and maybe a special use of 1 type of armor (maybe full Ac mod but 1/2 dex mod) or maybe some other drawback/flaw. But again the issues I see have to do with how the rules are structured in 5e and the simplicity of the system, I also think the simplicity of the system is a strength in some areas and a drawback in others.
If you change how things work, ie you get a stat mod for race, class and background then that probably would change some power creep as well as maybe having stat mins to take backgrounds. But again this seem to go in a direction 5e does not want to go in.
I could see light armor proficiency as a level 1 feat (probably not medium or heavy) and martial weapon proficiency.
As it stands though the changes you ask for the backgrounds go directly against the simplification they are trying to keep for background creation. These aren't hard choices, these are soft templates to modify as needed. I feel too many are looking at the sample backgrounds as 'these are your only options'.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
A level 1 feat to represent basic training would be the best option for this, as HeroZero points out the backgrounds are just examples and are really supposed to be customizable so weapon/armor proficiency would not fit the template. But sure a feat that gives light armor proficiency and simple weapon proficiency would be okay for me. The reality is the only classes it would benefit are wiz/sor, sure some other class I am not thinking of may get to round out a smattering of weapons into simple, but that would be tiny, and for wiz/sor the weapons would be more of a ribbon feature as they already have access to crossbows which will be their best simple weapon option anyways. So really its just light armor proficiency.
Background options restricted by class: One thing I have seen often expressed here on the D&DB Forums is the basic idea "Your "idea" (Background+ class and story ideas) does not fit because your class does not fit your background.
Upon further thought you could extend the idea of how skills work (no proficiency bonus (PB), 1/2 PB, Full PB or x2 PB) to how stat bonuses work with weapons and armor. This would greatly expand the options for players to design some custom backgrounds but keep play balance. For example right now armor gives you a AC bonus + Possible Stat bonus, and with the new idea you might have a column to a lesser and maybe greater formula. For weapons you could have you can use but do not get bonus to hit and 1/2 stat bonus to damage or 1/2 Stat bonus to hit and 1/2 stat bonus to damage.
The problem is 1D&D want to be backward compatible with 5e and the above idea is more complex then 5e generally want to delve into (in my opinion).
I could see making lightly armored, moderately armored and heavily armored into level 1 feats that DO NOT provide a +1 to any characteristic. Each one has the pre-requisite that you have the prior armor as a proficiency before you take it and maybe have some form of physical requirement as well. Like at least 13 strength and be playing a class that starts with medium armor to get heavy armor. Weapon master just becoming a first level feat is already something that should happen in my opinion. You wouldn't get weapons AND armor, but you would get one or the other this way. All classes basically have simple weapons proficiency as it is and that includes spears, which are some of the most commonly used weapons for middle ages militaries as is.
It seems to me that weapons and armor proficiency is more than a background or a single feat is meant to provide, although they may create something like that, as the 1st level feats they provide are most likely not comprehensive. It is probably not what the OP wants to hear, but to make this build a reality, I would suggest starting out at level 1 as a fighter (or another martial class of your choice) and then multiclassing into sorcerer. Maybe your sorcerous origin has not manifested itself yet at the beginning of your adventuring career.
I could see making lightly armored, moderately armored and heavily armored into level 1 feats that DO NOT provide a +1 to any characteristic. Each one has the pre-requisite that you have the prior armor as a proficiency before you take it and maybe have some form of physical requirement as well. Like at least 13 strength and be playing a class that starts with medium armor to get heavy armor. Weapon master just becoming a first level feat is already something that should happen in my opinion. You wouldn't get weapons AND armor, but you would get one or the other this way. All classes basically have simple weapons proficiency as it is and that includes spears, which are some of the most commonly used weapons for middle ages militaries as is.
Wiz/sor don't have full simple weapons. That could change, but rolling that into a light armor feat would not be unbalanced as it gives no real mechanical benefit its just flavor since odds the best mechanical choice will be just plunk away with a crossbow until their cantrips level up anyways.
It seems to me that weapons and armor proficiency is more than a background or a single feat is meant to provide, although they may create something like that, as the 1st level feats they provide are most likely not comprehensive. It is probably not what the OP wants to hear, but to make this build a reality, I would suggest starting out at level 1 as a fighter (or another martial class of your choice) and then multiclassing into sorcerer. Maybe your sorcerous origin has not manifested itself yet at the beginning of your adventuring career.
Maybe, but look at it mechanically they gain access to weapons they wont use past level 5 and basically they get to save 1 first level spell slot from being mage armor, is that better than alert, or magic initiate even.
Comment 1: You could also provide the ability to wear the armor in question but not give any or full benefits or maybe any penalties, this falls in line with being able to become a soldier (ie wear the armor) but not really being a good soldier. 5e to me is a very simple system and to me does not have the rules necessary to deal with very fine options, but again 5e strength is in its simplicity but you have to deal with the drawbacks that come with it as well.
Comment 2: A post above asks the simple question "When do you get your class and what impact does that have on a character and their actions (ie social actions, acquiring of skills as well as possible acquiring of languages and tools?" If your game world says sorceress upon acquiring their class cannot do X things that is very different then having a much more open game world in which skill, tool and language acquisition is much more open (note I am a firm believer in some things not being possible due to the possibility of being exposed to it). For example maybe someone who grew up as a scholar in the Library of Alexandria would have a much more open selection of languages then someone in a more isolated region that because of their isolation and lack of exposure to the outside world has a much small list to select from.
What, you never heard of a military mage? Not everyone in the military needs training in weapons or armor. Though, as a sorcerer, you're still good with a light crossbow.
I also assume people can still get drafted. Maybe you were a scholar learning how to become a wizard and a local war interrupted your studies as a able bodied youth they drafted you into the ranks.
I'd say you have a background and class that don't really match. Why would your soldier suddenly become a sorcerer? A sorcerer's power is usually innate to them, so unless there was some event where they discover their power later down the line, wouldn't they more likely be some kind of battlemage else wise? Or even recruited more towards a guild of spell casters?
As for the feat you propose, it's overpowered, it gives too much. Consider that in 5E a feat was lightly armored, which gave light Armour, you're asking to basically get a form of medium Armour and some weapon proficiency on top of that.
To me, it sounds like you're trying to make a multi-class character without taking the level dip. If your DM is happy, they can homebrew this, but it's definitely overpowered for what a 1st level sorcerer should have.
A sorcerer's power is innate, so they woke up one day finding they were able to use magic.
Aren't all backgrounds a bit like multiclassing? Not like someone is likely doing manual labour as a wizard. More likely they were helping someone with a move or perhaps some construction, the someone saw their potential and offered to teach them magic.
Or they could have gotten their class training first, and served as a soldier as a sorcerer or wizard, in which case they were likely in a support unit or treated as the equivalent of a modern heavy weapons trained soldier.
Right but with background being as customizable as it is, you can just make a new one and put the relevant bits in there, like an event that the power awoken or caused a change in career. There will probably be something added for proficiency in the feats but what the OP requested was definitely too much, would be easier to multi-class into fighter, paladin or barbarian at level 2 and take the 1 level dip for getting them.
I agree with the people saying a soldier wouldn’t need proficiency in armor or weapons. There are a lot of different jobs a soldier could do, and even if they did use armor and weapons it might not have been long enough to gain proficiency. After all, that is what your class represents. So another option for this character would be to start as Fighter and take the Magic Initiate feat. That would give all the needed proficiencies plus a bit of sorcerer magic. Then switch to Sorcerer at level 2.
That said, I don’t think Light Armor proficiency is too strong for a level 1 feat. For comparison, Magic Initiate could be used to take Mage Armor and 2 cantrips.
Your character’s Background is a collection of characteristics representing the place and occupation that were most formative for the character before they embarked on a life of adventure.
Intent vs Reality
I plan to pay a Sorcerer that started out as a Soldier. A Soldier would have some kind of weapon / armor proficiency. Let’s say Padded armor and a Spear.
When I choose the Sorcerer Class, I don’t have any of these proficiencies.
I believe this breaks the spirit of the new background intent. I have a couple of simple solutions.
Solution 1: Give everybody proficiency in 3 simple weapons of their choice and proficiency in Padded Armor or Hide Armor.
Solution 2: Add a new 1 Level Feat
Trained Warrior (1-Level Feat)
Prerequisite: None
Repeatable: No
You have been trained in the art of war, granting you proficiency in some basic armor and weaponry.
Basic Weapons: You gain weapon proficiency with Simple Weapons
Specialist: You gain proficiency with one of the following Martial Weapons of your choice (Scimitar, Shortsword, Trident, Whip, Blowgun, Net or Hand crossbow)
Basic Armor Set: You gain proficiency with Light Armor and Hide Armor
Thoughts??
I'd say you have a background and class that don't really match. Why would your soldier suddenly become a sorcerer? A sorcerer's power is usually innate to them, so unless there was some event where they discover their power later down the line, wouldn't they more likely be some kind of battlemage else wise? Or even recruited more towards a guild of spell casters?
As for the feat you propose, it's overpowered, it gives too much. Consider that in 5E a feat was lightly armored, which gave light Armour, you're asking to basically get a form of medium Armour and some weapon proficiency on top of that.
To me, it sounds like you're trying to make a multi-class character without taking the level dip. If your DM is happy, they can homebrew this, but it's definitely overpowered for what a 1st level sorcerer should have.
Seeing as how this is probably only a sample list, there probably is a gain proficiency in armor/weapons feat at first level. We'll see how theirs is worded eventually and see what it gives.
Yes armor an weapon proficiency is op. But since Dwarfs had both an Elves had one which they are know missing I would have thought that there is at least a 1st level feat which gives you Wepon proficiency in one simple and one martial weapon and another feat that gives you any armor proficiency to replace that race feats.
There maybe something further down the line that gives one or the other, as Inverse_Gospel has said, we definitely aren't looking at a complete list of feats yet.
I'm all for removal of weapon/armor proficiencies on races. It was too strong of a factor for optimization. Mountain dwarf casters were exceptionally well-defended because of free proficiency with medium armor, and that's worth two feats or one level dip in a different class. I'd say armor proficiency feats should stay, although they might be merged with armor mastery feats. Martial weapon proficiency should be one separate feat, replacing weapon master that gave proficiency with only four weapons.
In general I do not have a problem with your PC idea, where I see the issue is how 5e's rules structured and that makes your idea a little tougher to create.
What I would do is create a background tailored to my idea and the class I chose. So in your case it would be Sorcerer, Solider upbringing in Region X. Then I would assign the stuff I thought would be appropriate (as a GM) to the background. Maybe 1-2 specific weapon's (do not let players pick any weapon) and maybe a special use of 1 type of armor (maybe full Ac mod but 1/2 dex mod) or maybe some other drawback/flaw. But again the issues I see have to do with how the rules are structured in 5e and the simplicity of the system, I also think the simplicity of the system is a strength in some areas and a drawback in others.
If you change how things work, ie you get a stat mod for race, class and background then that probably would change some power creep as well as maybe having stat mins to take backgrounds. But again this seem to go in a direction 5e does not want to go in.
Hope that helps a bit.
I could see light armor proficiency as a level 1 feat (probably not medium or heavy) and martial weapon proficiency.
As it stands though the changes you ask for the backgrounds go directly against the simplification they are trying to keep for background creation. These aren't hard choices, these are soft templates to modify as needed. I feel too many are looking at the sample backgrounds as 'these are your only options'.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
A level 1 feat to represent basic training would be the best option for this, as HeroZero points out the backgrounds are just examples and are really supposed to be customizable so weapon/armor proficiency would not fit the template. But sure a feat that gives light armor proficiency and simple weapon proficiency would be okay for me. The reality is the only classes it would benefit are wiz/sor, sure some other class I am not thinking of may get to round out a smattering of weapons into simple, but that would be tiny, and for wiz/sor the weapons would be more of a ribbon feature as they already have access to crossbows which will be their best simple weapon option anyways. So really its just light armor proficiency.
Background options restricted by class: One thing I have seen often expressed here on the D&DB Forums is the basic idea "Your "idea" (Background+ class and story ideas) does not fit because your class does not fit your background.
Upon further thought you could extend the idea of how skills work (no proficiency bonus (PB), 1/2 PB, Full PB or x2 PB) to how stat bonuses work with weapons and armor. This would greatly expand the options for players to design some custom backgrounds but keep play balance. For example right now armor gives you a AC bonus + Possible Stat bonus, and with the new idea you might have a column to a lesser and maybe greater formula. For weapons you could have you can use but do not get bonus to hit and 1/2 stat bonus to damage or 1/2 Stat bonus to hit and 1/2 stat bonus to damage.
The problem is 1D&D want to be backward compatible with 5e and the above idea is more complex then 5e generally want to delve into (in my opinion).
I could see making lightly armored, moderately armored and heavily armored into level 1 feats that DO NOT provide a +1 to any characteristic. Each one has the pre-requisite that you have the prior armor as a proficiency before you take it and maybe have some form of physical requirement as well. Like at least 13 strength and be playing a class that starts with medium armor to get heavy armor. Weapon master just becoming a first level feat is already something that should happen in my opinion. You wouldn't get weapons AND armor, but you would get one or the other this way. All classes basically have simple weapons proficiency as it is and that includes spears, which are some of the most commonly used weapons for middle ages militaries as is.
It seems to me that weapons and armor proficiency is more than a background or a single feat is meant to provide, although they may create something like that, as the 1st level feats they provide are most likely not comprehensive. It is probably not what the OP wants to hear, but to make this build a reality, I would suggest starting out at level 1 as a fighter (or another martial class of your choice) and then multiclassing into sorcerer. Maybe your sorcerous origin has not manifested itself yet at the beginning of your adventuring career.
Wiz/sor don't have full simple weapons. That could change, but rolling that into a light armor feat would not be unbalanced as it gives no real mechanical benefit its just flavor since odds the best mechanical choice will be just plunk away with a crossbow until their cantrips level up anyways.
Maybe, but look at it mechanically they gain access to weapons they wont use past level 5 and basically they get to save 1 first level spell slot from being mage armor, is that better than alert, or magic initiate even.
Comment 1: You could also provide the ability to wear the armor in question but not give any or full benefits or maybe any penalties, this falls in line with being able to become a soldier (ie wear the armor) but not really being a good soldier. 5e to me is a very simple system and to me does not have the rules necessary to deal with very fine options, but again 5e strength is in its simplicity but you have to deal with the drawbacks that come with it as well.
Comment 2: A post above asks the simple question "When do you get your class and what impact does that have on a character and their actions (ie social actions, acquiring of skills as well as possible acquiring of languages and tools?" If your game world says sorceress upon acquiring their class cannot do X things that is very different then having a much more open game world in which skill, tool and language acquisition is much more open (note I am a firm believer in some things not being possible due to the possibility of being exposed to it). For example maybe someone who grew up as a scholar in the Library of Alexandria would have a much more open selection of languages then someone in a more isolated region that because of their isolation and lack of exposure to the outside world has a much small list to select from.
Sorcerer/Soldier
What, you never heard of a military mage? Not everyone in the military needs training in weapons or armor. Though, as a sorcerer, you're still good with a light crossbow.
I also assume people can still get drafted. Maybe you were a scholar learning how to become a wizard and a local war interrupted your studies as a able bodied youth they drafted you into the ranks.
Right but with background being as customizable as it is, you can just make a new one and put the relevant bits in there, like an event that the power awoken or caused a change in career. There will probably be something added for proficiency in the feats but what the OP requested was definitely too much, would be easier to multi-class into fighter, paladin or barbarian at level 2 and take the 1 level dip for getting them.
I agree with the people saying a soldier wouldn’t need proficiency in armor or weapons. There are a lot of different jobs a soldier could do, and even if they did use armor and weapons it might not have been long enough to gain proficiency. After all, that is what your class represents. So another option for this character would be to start as Fighter and take the Magic Initiate feat. That would give all the needed proficiencies plus a bit of sorcerer magic. Then switch to Sorcerer at level 2.
That said, I don’t think Light Armor proficiency is too strong for a level 1 feat. For comparison, Magic Initiate could be used to take Mage Armor and 2 cantrips.
I agree that the idea of backwards compatibility can really hold new ideas back or make them not viable.