Nah. The purpose of mechanics is to enhance the narrative of the game. A mechanic that improves the likelihood of memorable moments in game improves it, while a mechanic that decreases those moments is a detrimental change.
No. that's not quantifiable. Something that enhances YOUR narrative experience is often going to be detrimental to mine. So, you shouldn't be judging on that. The numbers can be quantified.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Nah. The purpose of mechanics is to enhance the narrative of the game. A mechanic that improves the likelihood of memorable moments in game improves it, while a mechanic that decreases those moments is a detrimental change.
No. that's not quantifiable. Something that enhances YOUR narrative experience is often going to be detrimental to mine. So, you shouldn't be judging on that. The numbers can be quantified.
It's not quantifiable, but it is debatable. If you want to argue that the UA_Warlock doesn't have the deficiency I'm claiming because I'm misrepresenting how it would feel in play I'm happy to have that debate.
But suggesting that how a class feels in play can't be measured is very different. A class can mechanically perform all the necessary mechanical distinctions to come out "balanced" but still be unsatisfying to play.
My claim is that by being neither powerful enough a spellcaster at a given level while also being not a capable enough warrior to fill that role leaves the class in an unsatisfying middle ground.
This is mostly, I'm claiming, because there doesn't feel to me like you can't tell much of a difference between a Warlock in a highly dramatic moment compared to a Warlock going through the motions of a common battle. MA attempts to resolve this, but I'd say that the lack of choice created by only getting to choose one spell per slot creates a restriction that needs to be made up in other ways.
If you want to debate whether or not UA_Warlock can fulfill that role of warrior or caster I'd be happy to hear it, but it sounds like you're more interested in saying my claim isn't just wrong, but nonsensical. In which case, you know, you don't have to respond at all.
Nah. The purpose of mechanics is to enhance the narrative of the game. A mechanic that improves the likelihood of memorable moments in game improves it, while a mechanic that decreases those moments is a detrimental change.
No. that's not quantifiable. Something that enhances YOUR narrative experience is often going to be detrimental to mine. So, you shouldn't be judging on that. The numbers can be quantified.
It's not quantifiable, but it is debatable. If you want to argue that the UA_Warlock doesn't have the deficiency I'm claiming because I'm misrepresenting how it would feel in play I'm happy to have that debate.
But suggesting that how a class feels in play can't be measured is very different. A class can mechanically perform all the necessary mechanical distinctions to come out "balanced" but still be unsatisfying to play.
My claim is that by being neither powerful enough a spellcaster at a given level while also being not a capable enough warrior to fill that role leaves the class in an unsatisfying middle ground.
This is mostly, I'm claiming, because there doesn't feel to me like you can't tell much of a difference between a Warlock in a highly dramatic moment compared to a Warlock going through the motions of a common battle. MA attempts to resolve this, but I'd say that the lack of choice created by only getting to choose one spell per slot creates a restriction that needs to be made up in other ways.
If you want to debate whether or not UA_Warlock can fulfill that role of warrior or caster I'd be happy to hear it, but it sounds like you're more interested in saying my claim isn't just wrong, but nonsensical. In which case, you know, you don't have to respond at all.
I think the framing of this debate is a little off. Every class is unique. You don't need to be martial or magic specifically you need to feel special and unique.
This warlock still has repelling blast, still has access to devil sight and the devil sight/darkness combo is actually made more reliable. Warlocks have been and are the most customizable class in the game. The warlocks "moment" will depend on the invocations and subclasses it takes, just as it always has.
As a Half Caster Warlock gets access to Darkness at level 5, two levels later than it does now, and Darkness/Devil's Sight is a bad combination because it interferes with the ability of your party to hit the enemy. They don't get a level 2 Mystic Arcanum at level 3, and if they did they would take Web because it's likely the best level 2 option.
At level 5 UA Warlocks have the ability to choose one, and only one, level 3 spell, and they are stuck with that spell until they level up. They can have Hypnotic Pattern, or they can have Counterspell, or they can have Fireball, but they cannot have all of them, and they cannot choose between them. Hypnotic Pattern will likely be the one taken here.
At level 7 they can get a level 4 Mystic Arcanum, and that will likely be Polymorph.
The Celestial Warlock is likely going to be the main subclass chosen, because it adds something most Arcane Casters don't get, healing. The Divine Soul Sorcerer will likely return to being the most commonly chosen subclass for the same reason.
Shield is available to every class thanks to the Magic Initiate feat. Adding Shield and two Arcane cantrips to a Paladin or Ranger is pretty much a no brainer. It's not something special to Warlock.
The Warlock has the appearance of customizability, but as with most features offered to the Warlock it's an illusion of choice. You get the Eldritch Blast cantrip built into your Warlock, so you'd have to be a complete nonce not to take the Agonizing Blast invocation to maximize the damage potential from it. Lessons of the First Ones for Magic Initiate is probably the best second option. Divine for the Searing Smite spell might be best for Bladelock. At level 5 you're taking a Mystic Arcanum. There is no invocation that matches the power of a level 3 spell. Pact of the Tome do have their Pact cantrip replacing Agonizing Blast, so they do have a free choice here, but Blade and Chain do not.
At level 7 you're taking... a Mystic Arcanum. There's no invocation that matches the power of a level 4 spell.
At level 9 you'll trade in your level 3 Mystic Arcanum for another invocation. This is the first time you can say your options are truly free, but even then you'll probably take the invocation that fits your Pact, Favor of the Chain Master, Gift of the Protectors, or Lifedrinker. Between levels 9 and 10 a d10 weapon with Lifedrinker is the only time a Blade Pact Warlock will be superior in combat to a Eldritch Blast Warlock with Spell Sniper. Your new invocation will, of course, be a level 5 Mystic Arcanum.
At level 11 you'll take a level 6 Mystic Arcanum. Of your 6 invocations, 3 will be used for Mystic Arcanum.
At level 13 trade your level 4 Mystic Arcanum for a Level 7. You now have 7 invocations, 3 of which are Mystic Arcanum.
At level 15 add a level 8 Mystic Arcanum.
At level 17 trade your level 5 Mystic Arcanum for a level 9 Mystic Arcanum. You have 9 invocations, and 4 of them are Mystic Arcanum.
Five choices if you're a Pact of the Tome Warlock, four if you're a Pact Chain or Blade Warlock. That's not really much over 17 levels.
As I said, the illusion of choice.
Now you're free to say that the 2014 Warlock had its no-brainer choices, but because it wasn't tying any up for Mystic Arcanum you had options.
At level 11 the 2014 Warlock has 5 invocations. The UA Warlock has 6, but is using 3 of them for Mystic Arcanum. The only invocation that might be considered a "must take" for the 2014 Warlock is Agonizing Blast.
A Blade Pact Warlock could take Agonizing Blast, Improved Pact Weapon, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, and one other invocation (I like Mask of Many Faces) at level 11 without interfering with its spellcasting. With the UA Warlock if you want to keep up with spellcasting, you have Agonizing Blast, Improved Pact Weapon, Eldritch Smite... and nothing.
And because of their illusion of choice, Warlocks end up with non-options like the Hexer invocation, and non-features like Hex Master. WotC don't know what options you'll choose between levels 1 and 17, so the only things they can be sure you'll have is Eldritch Blast and Hex, because they force them on you. Hence their class features revolve around an essentially worthless level 1 spell, including using your 17th level class feature to give you the ability to add an average of 3.5 damage a turn at level 17 by spending your precious concentration on a "free" spell.
3.5 damage! Huzzah.
At least at level 9 the Paladin can use its concentration on Spirit Guardians. The UA6 Paladin may be nerfed, but its spell choices do fit its role as a frontline fighter.
As for access to utility spells, the game is balanced around the assumption that utility spells have a certain amount of potency as a caster gets access to them. The higher level you are the less and less effective spells like Misty Step, Darkness, Invisibility, Wall of Force, etc are going to be.
Sorry what? Wall of Force is incredibly potent at every tier of play, as is Misty Step. Darkness & Invisibility only lose potency at tier 4 when your fighting literal gods that have truesight.
You assumed lesson's of the first one was automatically better than repelling blast, several at will spells, and later gaze of two minds as a fifth level option. I have kind of gone over the invocations in a previous thread back when this was more relevant but essentially there are definitely a few playstyle and flavor choices that you DO have room for with new warlock as much as with old.
Take old Chain lock your invocations were basically agonizing blast + Investment of the chain master. Your level 5 was basically where you had an option but largely came down to repelling blast/devil's sight/ voice of the chain master, level 7 was probably polymorph, just like now. Level 9 hey look a real choice and by "a real choice" I mean either the second favorite pick you had at level 5 or Whispers of the grave. Level 12, same as 9, unless you are a blade lock than it is thirsting blade. Level 15, you are again taking the same one you would be taking now, either visions of distant realms or witch sight. Level 18 freebee.
Ultimately you have 5 "choices" with one of them being an either or situation.
Vs now. Agonizing blast + Repelling, or devil's sight or lesson's of the first one (Hey you got a choice 2 level's earlier with new), 5 Mystic arcanum 3rd level (Multiple good spells means multiple choices) (+ can change your previous free choice to include gaze of two minds so the amount of decent options is already increased here with the same number of "choices" and you got one of the previous choices for free with voice of the chain master). 7 Polymorph just like before. 9 Adds Choices of Favor of the chain master to the other new choice of whispers of the grave. 11 Mystic arcanum 6, (same thing you got before at this level because the next invocation would not be till 12). Lose out on invocation at 12. 13 Mystic arcanum trade and free pick up, no longer need Mystic arcanum for polymorph, previous lock still does also catching up to the previous locks invocation here because they won't get another till 15. 15 Mystic arcanum AND trade previous for Either witch sight or Vision of distant realms. 17 mystic arcanum trade, and you end up with an extra invocation. At the end of the day it is EXACTLY as I have already stated. by level 18 you are down 1 invocation. At 3, you are up one, at 5 you are up 1 but even in choices, at 7 you are up 1 but even in choices, at 9 you are up 1 but even in choices, at 11 you are even and even in choices. at 12 you are down 1, 13 even, 15 down 1, 17 even, 18 down 1. For most of your career the new warlock is either up an invocation or even and you are even in choices.
I find it amusing that the people who insist that Warlocks can "keep up with full casters" by using their Mystic Arcanum, then have nothing when you point out that that means they then don't have much choice in the way of invocations.
At level 11 UA Warlocks, to keep up with full casters, have to give up half of their invocations. If they don't they can take some utility spells but most of them are already on the Arcane spell list, and Warlocks have plenty of low level spell slots to use for them.
Lets look at Warlock's invocations, just the UA ones, remembering that if you take an invocation you're stuck with it until the next level up.
Agonizing Blast: A no brainer that makes Eldritch Blast the best damage cantrip in the game. Turns Warlock into an Eldritch Blast turret.
Armor of Shadows: Mage Armor, but you have medium armor proficiency. Spending 50gp for Scale Mail gives you the same AC with 14 dex as Mage Armor with 16.
Ascendant Step: 9th level, cast Levitate (on yourself). It's Levitate. It's a super niche spell at any time. You can actually cast Fly with your spell slots now.
Beast Speech: Speak with Animals. Not on the Arcane spell list but super situational, are you going to lock yourself into this spell for a full level? How often are you going to need to talk to an animal? If your party has a Druid this is built into the Druidic language. You can get it with Magic Initiate (Primal) and it's a ritual spell so you can have it whenever you absolutely need it.
Devil's Sight: Ignore darkness, both normal and magical. Does not help you in dim light. Also, darkvision exists, and is mostly the same unless you're dealing with magical darkness. Situational.
Eldritch Sight: Detect Magic. A good spell, but it's a ritual and it's on the Arcane spell list. If you need it you can cast it without a spell slot anyway.
Eldritch Spear: 300 foot range on Eldritch Blast. How often will you need that range?
Eyes of the Rune Keeper: Read all languages. It's half of Comprehend Languages. Comprehend Languages is a ritual spell. Like Detect Magic, if you need it you can already cast it without a spell slot.
Favor of the Chain Master: 9th level. Some boosts to your fragile summoned pet in melee. It's something, I guess.
Fiendish Vigor: d4+4 temporary hit points. False Life is on the Arcane spell list and you can actually scale it... or use Armor of Agathys instead.
Gaze of Two Minds: 5th level. Actually very good. Probably too good and won't get past the playtest stage.
Gift of the Protectors: Allow the first person per long rest who drops to 0 HP to fall to 1 HP instead. Situational.
Hexer: 600 foot range on Hex, and you gain advantage on concentration saves to maintain it, and only it. Eldritch Mind gives you advantage on all concentration checks. Take Eldritch Mind instead.
Lessons of the First Ones: Another first level feat. Some, like Magic Initiate, are very good. I think I've already said that this would be my second level 2 invocation along with Agonizing Blast.
Lifedrinker: Level 9. Add d6 necrotic damage to every hit you make with your pact weapon. It's better than Eldritch Blast for exactly two levels, before they get their third beam at level 11.
Mask of Many Faces: Disguise Self. My favorite invocation, but given Disguise Self is on the Arcane list, are you really going to use Disguise Self more than four times a day?
Master of Myriad Forms: Level 15. Alter Self. A level 2 spell that *checks notes* is on the Arcane list. Even on a half caster you've had the option of taking this for ten levels before it comes up as an invocation option.
Misty Visions: Silent Image. A good spell but... yes... it's on the Arcane list.
One With Shadows: Level 5. Very situational invisibility. Invisibility is a level 2 spell that's... oh look... on the Arcane list, and you get level 2 spell slots at... level 5.
Otherworldly Leap: level 9. Jump. Kris Kross might like it, but nobody else will.
Repelling Blast: A push effect on your Eldritch Blast. It's good, but in my opinion not as good at Lessons of the First Ones.
Visions of Distant Realms: Level 15. Arcane Eye. A 4th level spell that's... you guessed it... on the Arcane list. You got level 4 spells at level 13, so if you wanted Arcane Eye you'd already have it, and it certainly doesn't compare to having a level 8 spell via Mystic Arcanum.
Whispers of the Grave: Level 9. Speak with Dead. A level 3 spell, and not on the Arcane spell list. Could be useful, or not, just like Speak with Animals. At least you can make a corpse if you want to talk to one.
Witch Sight: Level 15. 30 foot Truesight. It's like a scaled down version of the level 6 True Seeing spell. Situationally useful.
So we have one "must take" invocation, and a bunch of situational invocations, most of which are on the Arcane list and are rituals to boot, making them pretty "on demand" anyway now that anyone with a ritual spell can cast it as a ritual (like High Elves with their racial "detect magic"). Along with some that are completely worthless and would never be taken.
On the other hand we have Mystic Arcanum which provide the Warlock with the power of higher level spells, even if they're only once per long rest.
Like I said. The illusion of choice.
Invocations existed for the 2014 Warlock because they had limited spell slots and a limited choice of spells, allowing them access to spells that weren't on their list, and which they didn't have slots to spare casting. They didn't even have ritual casting unless they took Pact of the Tome AND the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation.
Now they have the full arcane list, they have an adequate number of low level spell slots, and they have ritual casting. Invocations have almost no reason to exist now. Certainly there is no point where, if you have to choose between a Mystic Arcanum and an Invocation, you'd choose the invocation.
Paladins and Rangers are martials that have some spellcasting. Artificers are support units with some spellcasting. Warlocks are Eldritch Blast turrets with some spellcasting, but whereas the Paladin, Ranger, and Artificer have a lot of features and class choices, Warlocks do not. Without access to heavy weapons there's nothing that Pact of the Blade Warlock does better than a Pact of the Tome Warlock with Spell Sniper. Warlocks are boring.
Which is why I'm now Team: College of Swords Bard (Arcane). It's a modestly capable martial, an excellent party face, and has full caster power.
I love how this entire post only works if you didn't bother reading what I just posted at all, and didn't bother taking part in the invocation conversation thread I made 3 months ago. None of this "illusion of choice" is new to new warlock. It existed on the old one as well. AND I already showed how their are MORE viable options for invocations now than there were in the past. AND I showed how the number of "actual choices" were about the same at most levels and thanks to more viable options that inherently makes those choices STRONGER as well.
I love how you take the UA invocations INSTEAD of taking the PHB invocations like it isn't all linked. I love how you ignore the old taxes that have been added to the pacts because it wouldn't support your argument and your assuming that change is INDEPENDENT of the rest of the changes. Good job, ignoring everything relevant to create a strawman. Very very thorough strawman, but a strawman none the less. In both the old and new you have a few "optional" invocations that don't really add power but instead flavor and uniqueness. That hasn't been lost. And I had a whole thread on how some invocations definitely NEED to be changed to better preform their fantasy
Edit: Honestly, a little curious. Did you play new warlock in any game yet? How many sessions? What level? Did you do a back to back comparison or did you try to make something unique with each? It is a curiosity at this point.
To answer the questions myself, yes, about 5 sessions. Levels 5, 7, 11 and 15. I used the same subclass back to back with the same pact, but did make slightly different character concepts with the 5e one being a street urchin and thief and the 5RE being a travelling fortune teller and psychic. They filled the same role in combat similar roles in exploration, but different roles in social encounters.
Edit2: A better question. As most have said adding a mystic arcanum at 3 and another invocation at 3 is what many believe would help this half-caster warlock feel proper. Since you feel it is so much an illusion of choice, would you prefer instead if New warlock remained a half caster but its features looked like this.
2, 2 Invocations
3, Mystic Arcanum
5, Invocation
7, Mystic Arcanum
9 Invocation
11, Mystic arcanum
13 Invocation
15, Mystic Arcanum
17 Invocation.
Of course the Mystic arcanums could be changed out when you level up just like now. The actual power difference wouldn't change, you would just have less theoretical choice, but you wouldn't see any illusion of choice. I am assuming this solves the whole issue.
Well, I don't think it really matters if the old Warlock wasn't great at giving actual choices either. Everybody was expecting WotC to make invocations balanced, so it makes sense to point out when they definitely didn't. And why the hell would 2014 invocations be factored in? We're trying the new class, remember? Considering Armor of Shadows is the exact same, any invocations that we're expected to playtest would have been included. People said that the first UA Rogues had Steady Aim, too, but they're obviously wrong since JC has talked about people wanting Steady Aim back.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Well, I don't think it really matters if the old Warlock wasn't great at giving actual choices either. Everybody was expecting WotC to make invocations balanced, so it makes sense to point out when they definitely didn't. And why the hell would 2014 invocations be factored in? We're trying the new class, remember? Considering Armor of Shadows is the exact same, any invocations that we're expected to playtest would have been included. People said that the first UA Rogues had Steady Aim, too, but they're obviously wrong since JC has talked about people wanting Steady Aim back.
I was asking that because comparing Old you use the old invocations. And new you use the NEW invocations. Don't use NEW invocations with OLD warlock or OLD invocations with new warlock. They are linked and should not be separated.
And I agree some of the invocations need tweaking. Many don't fit the new warlock because they were practically ported over from the old. I had a whole thread about that over 3 months ago. That conversation is very old. But that is a problem with THOSE invocations, not the warlock as a whole. Not the solution they came up with.
Lets take a look at part of the problem. The 3 spell lists. If the warlock is going to get access to the full spell list, obviously several old invocations don't work anymore like Sign of Ill omen or Sculpture of flesh, because you just have access to those spells. But lets look at how those spells are an issue on a class that can recover all their spells on a short rest and has full caster progression.
Polymorph, lasts an hour, a short rest takes an hour. Polymorph can turn you into any beast of the same CR as your level which makes you significantly more powerful as a creature with the same CR as your level is supposed to be a moderate encounter for 4 players. Being able to cast this spell multiple times at level 7 when everyone else only gets 1 cast is a little broken. But not as bad as bestow curse. Now bestow curse, on its own and at level 5 when you first get it isn't so bad. It becomes an issue at level 9 and if you can cast it through a familiar. 8 hour duration, no concentration, cast through a familiar.... you can curse anyone permanently at level 9, you can curse multiple people permanently at level 9.
And that's not the worst contender. Short rest recovery wall of force at level 9.... what other crazy combos exist on the arcane list? Giving the warlock the Wizards list necessitated a change in their casting, more than anything else.
Well, I don't think it really matters if the old Warlock wasn't great at giving actual choices either. Everybody was expecting WotC to make invocations balanced, so it makes sense to point out when they definitely didn't. And why the hell would 2014 invocations be factored in? We're trying the new class, remember? Considering Armor of Shadows is the exact same, any invocations that we're expected to playtest would have been included. People said that the first UA Rogues had Steady Aim, too, but they're obviously wrong since JC has talked about people wanting Steady Aim back.
I was asking that because comparing Old you use the old invocations. And new you use the NEW invocations. Don't use NEW invocations with OLD warlock or OLD invocations with new warlock. They are linked and should not be separated.
And I agree some of the invocations need tweaking. Many don't fit the new warlock because they were practically ported over from the old. I had a whole thread about that over 3 months ago.
I don't follow. Was somebody using old invocations with the new Warlock?
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Well, I don't think it really matters if the old Warlock wasn't great at giving actual choices either. Everybody was expecting WotC to make invocations balanced, so it makes sense to point out when they definitely didn't. And why the hell would 2014 invocations be factored in? We're trying the new class, remember? Considering Armor of Shadows is the exact same, any invocations that we're expected to playtest would have been included. People said that the first UA Rogues had Steady Aim, too, but they're obviously wrong since JC has talked about people wanting Steady Aim back.
I was asking that because comparing Old you use the old invocations. And new you use the NEW invocations. Don't use NEW invocations with OLD warlock or OLD invocations with new warlock. They are linked and should not be separated.
And I agree some of the invocations need tweaking. Many don't fit the new warlock because they were practically ported over from the old. I had a whole thread about that over 3 months ago.
I don't follow. Was somebody using old invocations with the new Warlock?
Nope trying to use new invocations with old warlock and use new pacts with old warlock to say old warlock didn't or wouldn't have invocation taxes.
Given I barely mentioned the 2014 Warlock in my summation of the invocations I don't know what point you're trying to make. Until such time as WotC revise or rewrite Xanathar's the Improved Pact Weapon and Eldritch Smite invocations are fine to take with a Pact of the Blade Warlock. Technically, since they moved Pact of the Blade to level 1, and the only prerequisite for Improved Pact Weapon is "Pact of the Blade" you can now take it at level 2, instead of level 3 as before.
The opportunity cost of taking the time to cast a ritual spell is probably smaller than the opportunity cost involved in picking a particular invocation and being stuck with it for a level.
The Warlock gets more spells known than it gets invocations, and not all invocations are spells.
The ritual spells that allow the Warlock to duplicate the effects of invocations are Comprehend Languages and Detect Magic. It is far easier to fit them into two of their 15 known spells than it is to fit them into their 9 invocations, especially when between 1 and 4 of them are tied up in Mystic Arcanum. At level 2, when you get your first two invocations, you have 3 known level 1 spells. You probably don't want to take both Detect Magic and Comprehend Languages, but you can pick one or the other.
When I was building my 2014 Hexblade(s) the first invocations I took were always Agonizing Blast and Mask of Many Faces. I would likely do that now, except Lessons of the First Ones now exists to provide another level 1 known spell and two cantrips via Magic Initiate. Mask is still a good option, but Lessons is also a good option. Magic Initiate (Divine) for Searing Smite (or Wrathful Smite) might be good for Blade Pact Warlocks. It scales faster than Hex, and does about twice the damage. A level 1 slot will do d6 damage on the hit, then d6 damage before they get to make their save. A level 2 slot will do 2d6 up front, then another d6 (or 2d6 depending on how you read the rules) before the save. 3d6 and d6 for a level 3 slot etc.
That said, some Hexblade players didn't take Eldritch Blast at all, so didn't take Agonizing Blast. Now it's a free known spell, so not taking Agonizing Blast is a bit of a nonce decision.
Since I play Drow almost exclusively, at level 4 I would take the Drow High Magic feat for on demand Detect Magic and once per day Levitate and Dispel Magic. That feat, and Drow's racials, added a decent number of spells to the 2014 Warlock, and would likely be handy for the UA version. Also good for Sorcerer.
At level 3 most Tome players would take the Book of Ancient Secrets to get their cantrips and ritual casting.
At level 5 with Hexblade I had to take Thirsting Blade to keep up with the martials. Other Warlocks had free choice of the Warlock invocations. Tome players could replace the invocation they sacrificed for Book if they wanted to. For the UA Warlock this is where they first get the option of a Mystic Arcanum, which they want, so they still only have two options. Pact of the Tome does get to replace Agonizing Blast with something else. As I've probably said before, or at least heavily implied, Pact of the Tome is the best Warlock pact. It was in 2014, and it still is today. With Spell Sniper it will consistently equal or surpass the melee damage of a Blade pact Warlock, except for the levels between 9 and 11 where Blade has Lifedrinker and Tome doesn't have the extra beam.
At level 7 with Hexblade I took Improved Pact Weapon, since it was a decent improvement to the Warlock's standard kit. I tended to build based on the assumption I'd never get a magic item, and treated it as a nice bonus if I did. Other Warlock players could take Sculptor of Flesh for once per long rest Polymorph, but because they were getting level 4 spell options anyway they didn't have to. The UA Warlock... oh, that's right. Another Mystic Arcanum. You have four invocations, but two of them are Mystic Arcanum. In 2014 you had four invocations, and one of them was probably Agonizing Blast. Tome would almost certainly have Book of Ancient Secrets, and Blade was the most invocation heavy of the three. It took a lot of specialization to make a caster into a martial, but it could be a darn good martial.
A dedicated martial Hexblade, Polearm Master, Improved Pact Weapon, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, Lifedrinker, Spirit Shroud, could put out very respectable sustained damage over multiple turns. The Paladin dumping its spell slots into Divine Smites gave it incredible one turn damage spikes, but the Hexblade could outdamage it over multiple turns as the Paladin ran out of slots. The Paladin is a thoroughbred, while the Hexblade is a mustang.
At level 9 with Hexblade it was usually a toss up between Eldritch Smite and Sculptor of Flesh. Sculptor of Flesh was better, but Eldritch Smite gave that "arcane Paladin" feel I was going for. Eldritch Smite is a bad invocation on a class with few spell slots, but I generally didn't worry too much about that. If I had them to spare I'd use them, and if I didn't I didn't. Spirit Shroud upcast to level 5 could provide a fair sustained damage boost since it was adding 2d8 radiant to every hit. Counterspell being automatically upcast to level 5 made dispelling more reliable as foes got higher level spells.
In the UA Warlock can finally drop one of its level 3 Mystic Arcanum for a level 5 Mystic Arcanum. It has 5 invocations, and only two of them are reserved for Mystic Arcanum. Three free options if you're going Tome, two if not. If you're going Blade you'll probably take Lifedrinker. The other Pact specific choices... exist.
Level 11, 6 invocations... three of them are Mystic Arcanum. Moving on. It's here that the 2014 Warlock starts getting Mystic Arcanum, getting a level 6 spell. But that doesn't cut into its invocation allowance so while it has only five at this point, your only "no brainer" choices are Agonizing Blast and Book of Ancient Secrets (which should be stuffed full of ritual spells by now). Blade, as expected, has three tied up with making itself a good fighter, and likely has Agonizing Blast as well. For me the "free" one was still Mask of Many Faces. Proficiency with persuasion and deception, on a charisma caster, who can look like anyone, is a lot of fun. In Descent into Avernus I once convinced a bunch of devils to go and fight a bunch of undead, allowing my party to proceed unmolested.
Level 13 UA gets 7 invocations, it finally gets a 4th level spell slot. It can, in theory, drop the level 4 Mystic Arcanum for a level 7, but given you only have a single level 4 slot you might want to hang onto that level 4 to effectively double your high level casting for the day. 7 invocations, three (or four) are Mystic Arcanum.
Level 15 UA, 8 invocations. Levels 8, 7, 6, and 5 Mystic Arcanum. You have two level 4 slots now, so can probably do without the level 4 Mystic Arcanum. Though, again, Full Casters have three level 4 slots at this point, and Warlock only two. Four of your invocations (maybe five) taken as Mystic Arcanum.
Level 17 UA. 9, 9 invocations. Hah hah hah. I love to count. You definitely want levels 9, 8, 7, and 6 Mystic Arcanum. You might want a level 5 to give another casting of a level 5 spell.
As you level up with Warlock the invocation tax from Mystic Arcanum means that you'll rarely have more than a couple of free choices. Because you'll be stuck with whatever choice you make until you level up again (which goes for spells as well) you'll want to take invocations that provide maximum benefit for your investment. It's why Agonizing Blast is a no-brainer, and why it should really just be built into the Eldritch Blast cantrip, which I think Aquilontune has already mentioned. I also suggested it in my feedback to the Warlock survey.
There might be circumstances where on demand Levitate is useful. But will those circumstances show up as often as on demand Disguise Self, or Detect Magic? Will it happen often enough that simply taking Fly as one of your known spells won't be more useful? Some of the more interesting uses of Levitate, like casting it on a 500 pound object, can't happen with Ascendant Step because you can only cast it on yourself. Checking the racial spells many come with (like Drow) can help to bolster your options. Forest Gnomes now come with Speak with Animals if you think you'll really need the spell.
A "situational" option that requires a significant sacrifice of a very finite resource is probably not going to be taken. Invocations, like spell slots, are a finite resource. Mystic Arcanum are a better expenditure of that resource than most invocations are. You could, in theory, expend all 9 invocations to take Mystic Arcanum, but that would be pretty dumb. However between 1 and 4 will have to be part of your build plan, perhaps taking more at certain levels to give yourself more casting options. If you don't invest any invocations in Mystic Arcanum you're then a half caster Eldritch Blast turret, who's always trailing far behind the full casters. That is an option, but I don't think any Warlock player, if the UA Warlock goes into print, will choose that option.
Given I barely mentioned the 2014 Warlock in my summation of the invocations I don't know what point you're trying to make. Until such time as WotC revise or rewrite Xanathar's the Improved Pact Weapon and Eldritch Smite invocations are fine to take with a Pact of the Blade Warlock. Technically, since they moved Pact of the Blade to level 1, and the only prerequisite for Improved Pact Weapon is "Pact of the Blade" you can now take it at level 2, instead of level 3 as before.
Nononononono stop that. It's a new class. As I showed earlier, people said that Tasha's optional class features carried over when the original UA Rogue dropped, but (as if it wasn't clear enough already) Jeremy Crawford said in a video that people wanted Steady Aim as a Rogue feature. And he didn't say, "wElL gUyS, yOu WeRe SuPpOsEd To UsE tHe RuLeS fRoM tHe ThInG wE aReN't EvEn PlAyTeStInG fRoM tHe LaSt EdItIoN." He said, "Rogue's have Steady Aim now."
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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There is some thoughts here. I do not believe we would prefer Mystic arcanum to be removed AND lower number of invocations. I DO think we want the more "situational" invocations a little more strength.
An example I had was Eye's of the Runekeeper and Eldritch sight being rolled into one. I also would like to see Misty visions and Mask of Many faces rolled into one. I tend to agree that those invocations need al little more umph. I tend to think at will spells should be provided at the same level you first have access to that spell as a "half caster" like at will levitate at 5, or at will jump at level 2. The only except I find would be Arcane eye at 15 with witch sight (2 invocations I think are a little under-rated at will arcane eye is super good and perma short range truesight that doesn't use your one 6th level spell is also really good). But I am OK with mystic arcanum being an invocation as long as we get more invocations. I DO want Agonizing blast as part of EB ESPECIALLY if it going to scale with Warlock level anyway. I DO want 1 more invocation at level 3 with mystic arcanum being an option making for 10 by the end. But whether it is 6 invocations and 4 mystic arcanum with all "invocation taxes" removed or it is 10 Invocations with no Invocation tax from pacts and mystic arcanum being invocations it makes no difference to me. Maybe someone will WANT to play that character that doesn't have those higher level slots for some crazy reason.
A note about level 13, 15 and 17. Remember than when you unlock 4th level spells, and later when you unlock 5th level spells, you also unlock your pact spell. Which means in addition to having your 1 4th level slot you also have one free cast from your patron spell list, which is usually going to be reserved for the highest level spell there extending the casting a bit more than would be otherwise suggested.
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No. that's not quantifiable. Something that enhances YOUR narrative experience is often going to be detrimental to mine. So, you shouldn't be judging on that. The numbers can be quantified.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It's not quantifiable, but it is debatable. If you want to argue that the UA_Warlock doesn't have the deficiency I'm claiming because I'm misrepresenting how it would feel in play I'm happy to have that debate.
But suggesting that how a class feels in play can't be measured is very different. A class can mechanically perform all the necessary mechanical distinctions to come out "balanced" but still be unsatisfying to play.
My claim is that by being neither powerful enough a spellcaster at a given level while also being not a capable enough warrior to fill that role leaves the class in an unsatisfying middle ground.
This is mostly, I'm claiming, because there doesn't feel to me like you can't tell much of a difference between a Warlock in a highly dramatic moment compared to a Warlock going through the motions of a common battle. MA attempts to resolve this, but I'd say that the lack of choice created by only getting to choose one spell per slot creates a restriction that needs to be made up in other ways.
If you want to debate whether or not UA_Warlock can fulfill that role of warrior or caster I'd be happy to hear it, but it sounds like you're more interested in saying my claim isn't just wrong, but nonsensical. In which case, you know, you don't have to respond at all.
I think the framing of this debate is a little off. Every class is unique. You don't need to be martial or magic specifically you need to feel special and unique.
This warlock still has repelling blast, still has access to devil sight and the devil sight/darkness combo is actually made more reliable. Warlocks have been and are the most customizable class in the game. The warlocks "moment" will depend on the invocations and subclasses it takes, just as it always has.
As a Half Caster Warlock gets access to Darkness at level 5, two levels later than it does now, and Darkness/Devil's Sight is a bad combination because it interferes with the ability of your party to hit the enemy. They don't get a level 2 Mystic Arcanum at level 3, and if they did they would take Web because it's likely the best level 2 option.
At level 5 UA Warlocks have the ability to choose one, and only one, level 3 spell, and they are stuck with that spell until they level up. They can have Hypnotic Pattern, or they can have Counterspell, or they can have Fireball, but they cannot have all of them, and they cannot choose between them. Hypnotic Pattern will likely be the one taken here.
At level 7 they can get a level 4 Mystic Arcanum, and that will likely be Polymorph.
The Celestial Warlock is likely going to be the main subclass chosen, because it adds something most Arcane Casters don't get, healing. The Divine Soul Sorcerer will likely return to being the most commonly chosen subclass for the same reason.
Shield is available to every class thanks to the Magic Initiate feat. Adding Shield and two Arcane cantrips to a Paladin or Ranger is pretty much a no brainer. It's not something special to Warlock.
The Warlock has the appearance of customizability, but as with most features offered to the Warlock it's an illusion of choice. You get the Eldritch Blast cantrip built into your Warlock, so you'd have to be a complete nonce not to take the Agonizing Blast invocation to maximize the damage potential from it. Lessons of the First Ones for Magic Initiate is probably the best second option. Divine for the Searing Smite spell might be best for Bladelock. At level 5 you're taking a Mystic Arcanum. There is no invocation that matches the power of a level 3 spell. Pact of the Tome do have their Pact cantrip replacing Agonizing Blast, so they do have a free choice here, but Blade and Chain do not.
At level 7 you're taking... a Mystic Arcanum. There's no invocation that matches the power of a level 4 spell.
At level 9 you'll trade in your level 3 Mystic Arcanum for another invocation. This is the first time you can say your options are truly free, but even then you'll probably take the invocation that fits your Pact, Favor of the Chain Master, Gift of the Protectors, or Lifedrinker. Between levels 9 and 10 a d10 weapon with Lifedrinker is the only time a Blade Pact Warlock will be superior in combat to a Eldritch Blast Warlock with Spell Sniper. Your new invocation will, of course, be a level 5 Mystic Arcanum.
At level 11 you'll take a level 6 Mystic Arcanum. Of your 6 invocations, 3 will be used for Mystic Arcanum.
At level 13 trade your level 4 Mystic Arcanum for a Level 7. You now have 7 invocations, 3 of which are Mystic Arcanum.
At level 15 add a level 8 Mystic Arcanum.
At level 17 trade your level 5 Mystic Arcanum for a level 9 Mystic Arcanum. You have 9 invocations, and 4 of them are Mystic Arcanum.
Five choices if you're a Pact of the Tome Warlock, four if you're a Pact Chain or Blade Warlock. That's not really much over 17 levels.
As I said, the illusion of choice.
Now you're free to say that the 2014 Warlock had its no-brainer choices, but because it wasn't tying any up for Mystic Arcanum you had options.
At level 11 the 2014 Warlock has 5 invocations. The UA Warlock has 6, but is using 3 of them for Mystic Arcanum. The only invocation that might be considered a "must take" for the 2014 Warlock is Agonizing Blast.
A Blade Pact Warlock could take Agonizing Blast, Improved Pact Weapon, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, and one other invocation (I like Mask of Many Faces) at level 11 without interfering with its spellcasting. With the UA Warlock if you want to keep up with spellcasting, you have Agonizing Blast, Improved Pact Weapon, Eldritch Smite... and nothing.
And because of their illusion of choice, Warlocks end up with non-options like the Hexer invocation, and non-features like Hex Master. WotC don't know what options you'll choose between levels 1 and 17, so the only things they can be sure you'll have is Eldritch Blast and Hex, because they force them on you. Hence their class features revolve around an essentially worthless level 1 spell, including using your 17th level class feature to give you the ability to add an average of 3.5 damage a turn at level 17 by spending your precious concentration on a "free" spell.
3.5 damage! Huzzah.
At least at level 9 the Paladin can use its concentration on Spirit Guardians. The UA6 Paladin may be nerfed, but its spell choices do fit its role as a frontline fighter.
That said, the UA Arcane Bard as a College of Swords Bard does everything I expect from a Blade Pact Warlock.
Sorry what? Wall of Force is incredibly potent at every tier of play, as is Misty Step. Darkness & Invisibility only lose potency at tier 4 when your fighting literal gods that have truesight.
You assumed lesson's of the first one was automatically better than repelling blast, several at will spells, and later gaze of two minds as a fifth level option. I have kind of gone over the invocations in a previous thread back when this was more relevant but essentially there are definitely a few playstyle and flavor choices that you DO have room for with new warlock as much as with old.
Take old Chain lock your invocations were basically agonizing blast + Investment of the chain master. Your level 5 was basically where you had an option but largely came down to repelling blast/devil's sight/ voice of the chain master, level 7 was probably polymorph, just like now. Level 9 hey look a real choice and by "a real choice" I mean either the second favorite pick you had at level 5 or Whispers of the grave. Level 12, same as 9, unless you are a blade lock than it is thirsting blade. Level 15, you are again taking the same one you would be taking now, either visions of distant realms or witch sight. Level 18 freebee.
Ultimately you have 5 "choices" with one of them being an either or situation.
Vs now. Agonizing blast + Repelling, or devil's sight or lesson's of the first one (Hey you got a choice 2 level's earlier with new), 5 Mystic arcanum 3rd level (Multiple good spells means multiple choices) (+ can change your previous free choice to include gaze of two minds so the amount of decent options is already increased here with the same number of "choices" and you got one of the previous choices for free with voice of the chain master). 7 Polymorph just like before. 9 Adds Choices of Favor of the chain master to the other new choice of whispers of the grave. 11 Mystic arcanum 6, (same thing you got before at this level because the next invocation would not be till 12). Lose out on invocation at 12. 13 Mystic arcanum trade and free pick up, no longer need Mystic arcanum for polymorph, previous lock still does also catching up to the previous locks invocation here because they won't get another till 15. 15 Mystic arcanum AND trade previous for Either witch sight or Vision of distant realms. 17 mystic arcanum trade, and you end up with an extra invocation. At the end of the day it is EXACTLY as I have already stated. by level 18 you are down 1 invocation. At 3, you are up one, at 5 you are up 1 but even in choices, at 7 you are up 1 but even in choices, at 9 you are up 1 but even in choices, at 11 you are even and even in choices. at 12 you are down 1, 13 even, 15 down 1, 17 even, 18 down 1. For most of your career the new warlock is either up an invocation or even and you are even in choices.
I find it amusing that the people who insist that Warlocks can "keep up with full casters" by using their Mystic Arcanum, then have nothing when you point out that that means they then don't have much choice in the way of invocations.
At level 11 UA Warlocks, to keep up with full casters, have to give up half of their invocations. If they don't they can take some utility spells but most of them are already on the Arcane spell list, and Warlocks have plenty of low level spell slots to use for them.
Lets look at Warlock's invocations, just the UA ones, remembering that if you take an invocation you're stuck with it until the next level up.
Agonizing Blast: A no brainer that makes Eldritch Blast the best damage cantrip in the game. Turns Warlock into an Eldritch Blast turret.
Armor of Shadows: Mage Armor, but you have medium armor proficiency. Spending 50gp for Scale Mail gives you the same AC with 14 dex as Mage Armor with 16.
Ascendant Step: 9th level, cast Levitate (on yourself). It's Levitate. It's a super niche spell at any time. You can actually cast Fly with your spell slots now.
Beast Speech: Speak with Animals. Not on the Arcane spell list but super situational, are you going to lock yourself into this spell for a full level? How often are you going to need to talk to an animal? If your party has a Druid this is built into the Druidic language. You can get it with Magic Initiate (Primal) and it's a ritual spell so you can have it whenever you absolutely need it.
Devil's Sight: Ignore darkness, both normal and magical. Does not help you in dim light. Also, darkvision exists, and is mostly the same unless you're dealing with magical darkness. Situational.
Eldritch Sight: Detect Magic. A good spell, but it's a ritual and it's on the Arcane spell list. If you need it you can cast it without a spell slot anyway.
Eldritch Spear: 300 foot range on Eldritch Blast. How often will you need that range?
Eyes of the Rune Keeper: Read all languages. It's half of Comprehend Languages. Comprehend Languages is a ritual spell. Like Detect Magic, if you need it you can already cast it without a spell slot.
Favor of the Chain Master: 9th level. Some boosts to your fragile summoned pet in melee. It's something, I guess.
Fiendish Vigor: d4+4 temporary hit points. False Life is on the Arcane spell list and you can actually scale it... or use Armor of Agathys instead.
Gaze of Two Minds: 5th level. Actually very good. Probably too good and won't get past the playtest stage.
Gift of the Protectors: Allow the first person per long rest who drops to 0 HP to fall to 1 HP instead. Situational.
Hexer: 600 foot range on Hex, and you gain advantage on concentration saves to maintain it, and only it. Eldritch Mind gives you advantage on all concentration checks. Take Eldritch Mind instead.
Lessons of the First Ones: Another first level feat. Some, like Magic Initiate, are very good. I think I've already said that this would be my second level 2 invocation along with Agonizing Blast.
Lifedrinker: Level 9. Add d6 necrotic damage to every hit you make with your pact weapon. It's better than Eldritch Blast for exactly two levels, before they get their third beam at level 11.
Mask of Many Faces: Disguise Self. My favorite invocation, but given Disguise Self is on the Arcane list, are you really going to use Disguise Self more than four times a day?
Master of Myriad Forms: Level 15. Alter Self. A level 2 spell that *checks notes* is on the Arcane list. Even on a half caster you've had the option of taking this for ten levels before it comes up as an invocation option.
Misty Visions: Silent Image. A good spell but... yes... it's on the Arcane list.
One With Shadows: Level 5. Very situational invisibility. Invisibility is a level 2 spell that's... oh look... on the Arcane list, and you get level 2 spell slots at... level 5.
Otherworldly Leap: level 9. Jump. Kris Kross might like it, but nobody else will.
Repelling Blast: A push effect on your Eldritch Blast. It's good, but in my opinion not as good at Lessons of the First Ones.
Visions of Distant Realms: Level 15. Arcane Eye. A 4th level spell that's... you guessed it... on the Arcane list. You got level 4 spells at level 13, so if you wanted Arcane Eye you'd already have it, and it certainly doesn't compare to having a level 8 spell via Mystic Arcanum.
Whispers of the Grave: Level 9. Speak with Dead. A level 3 spell, and not on the Arcane spell list. Could be useful, or not, just like Speak with Animals. At least you can make a corpse if you want to talk to one.
Witch Sight: Level 15. 30 foot Truesight. It's like a scaled down version of the level 6 True Seeing spell. Situationally useful.
So we have one "must take" invocation, and a bunch of situational invocations, most of which are on the Arcane list and are rituals to boot, making them pretty "on demand" anyway now that anyone with a ritual spell can cast it as a ritual (like High Elves with their racial "detect magic"). Along with some that are completely worthless and would never be taken.
On the other hand we have Mystic Arcanum which provide the Warlock with the power of higher level spells, even if they're only once per long rest.
Like I said. The illusion of choice.
Invocations existed for the 2014 Warlock because they had limited spell slots and a limited choice of spells, allowing them access to spells that weren't on their list, and which they didn't have slots to spare casting. They didn't even have ritual casting unless they took Pact of the Tome AND the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation.
Now they have the full arcane list, they have an adequate number of low level spell slots, and they have ritual casting. Invocations have almost no reason to exist now. Certainly there is no point where, if you have to choose between a Mystic Arcanum and an Invocation, you'd choose the invocation.
Paladins and Rangers are martials that have some spellcasting. Artificers are support units with some spellcasting. Warlocks are Eldritch Blast turrets with some spellcasting, but whereas the Paladin, Ranger, and Artificer have a lot of features and class choices, Warlocks do not. Without access to heavy weapons there's nothing that Pact of the Blade Warlock does better than a Pact of the Tome Warlock with Spell Sniper. Warlocks are boring.
Which is why I'm now Team: College of Swords Bard (Arcane). It's a modestly capable martial, an excellent party face, and has full caster power.
I love how this entire post only works if you didn't bother reading what I just posted at all, and didn't bother taking part in the invocation conversation thread I made 3 months ago. None of this "illusion of choice" is new to new warlock. It existed on the old one as well. AND I already showed how their are MORE viable options for invocations now than there were in the past. AND I showed how the number of "actual choices" were about the same at most levels and thanks to more viable options that inherently makes those choices STRONGER as well.
I love how you take the UA invocations INSTEAD of taking the PHB invocations like it isn't all linked. I love how you ignore the old taxes that have been added to the pacts because it wouldn't support your argument and your assuming that change is INDEPENDENT of the rest of the changes. Good job, ignoring everything relevant to create a strawman. Very very thorough strawman, but a strawman none the less. In both the old and new you have a few "optional" invocations that don't really add power but instead flavor and uniqueness. That hasn't been lost. And I had a whole thread on how some invocations definitely NEED to be changed to better preform their fantasy
Edit: Honestly, a little curious. Did you play new warlock in any game yet? How many sessions? What level? Did you do a back to back comparison or did you try to make something unique with each? It is a curiosity at this point.
To answer the questions myself, yes, about 5 sessions. Levels 5, 7, 11 and 15. I used the same subclass back to back with the same pact, but did make slightly different character concepts with the 5e one being a street urchin and thief and the 5RE being a travelling fortune teller and psychic. They filled the same role in combat similar roles in exploration, but different roles in social encounters.
Edit2: A better question. As most have said adding a mystic arcanum at 3 and another invocation at 3 is what many believe would help this half-caster warlock feel proper. Since you feel it is so much an illusion of choice, would you prefer instead if New warlock remained a half caster but its features looked like this.
2, 2 Invocations
3, Mystic Arcanum
5, Invocation
7, Mystic Arcanum
9 Invocation
11, Mystic arcanum
13 Invocation
15, Mystic Arcanum
17 Invocation.
Of course the Mystic arcanums could be changed out when you level up just like now. The actual power difference wouldn't change, you would just have less theoretical choice, but you wouldn't see any illusion of choice. I am assuming this solves the whole issue.
Well, I don't think it really matters if the old Warlock wasn't great at giving actual choices either. Everybody was expecting WotC to make invocations balanced, so it makes sense to point out when they definitely didn't. And why the hell would 2014 invocations be factored in? We're trying the new class, remember? Considering Armor of Shadows is the exact same, any invocations that we're expected to playtest would have been included. People said that the first UA Rogues had Steady Aim, too, but they're obviously wrong since JC has talked about people wanting Steady Aim back.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I was asking that because comparing Old you use the old invocations. And new you use the NEW invocations. Don't use NEW invocations with OLD warlock or OLD invocations with new warlock. They are linked and should not be separated.
And I agree some of the invocations need tweaking. Many don't fit the new warlock because they were practically ported over from the old. I had a whole thread about that over 3 months ago. That conversation is very old. But that is a problem with THOSE invocations, not the warlock as a whole. Not the solution they came up with.
Lets take a look at part of the problem. The 3 spell lists. If the warlock is going to get access to the full spell list, obviously several old invocations don't work anymore like Sign of Ill omen or Sculpture of flesh, because you just have access to those spells. But lets look at how those spells are an issue on a class that can recover all their spells on a short rest and has full caster progression.
Polymorph, lasts an hour, a short rest takes an hour. Polymorph can turn you into any beast of the same CR as your level which makes you significantly more powerful as a creature with the same CR as your level is supposed to be a moderate encounter for 4 players. Being able to cast this spell multiple times at level 7 when everyone else only gets 1 cast is a little broken. But not as bad as bestow curse. Now bestow curse, on its own and at level 5 when you first get it isn't so bad. It becomes an issue at level 9 and if you can cast it through a familiar. 8 hour duration, no concentration, cast through a familiar.... you can curse anyone permanently at level 9, you can curse multiple people permanently at level 9.
And that's not the worst contender. Short rest recovery wall of force at level 9.... what other crazy combos exist on the arcane list? Giving the warlock the Wizards list necessitated a change in their casting, more than anything else.
I don't follow. Was somebody using old invocations with the new Warlock?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Nope trying to use new invocations with old warlock and use new pacts with old warlock to say old warlock didn't or wouldn't have invocation taxes.
Given I barely mentioned the 2014 Warlock in my summation of the invocations I don't know what point you're trying to make. Until such time as WotC revise or rewrite Xanathar's the Improved Pact Weapon and Eldritch Smite invocations are fine to take with a Pact of the Blade Warlock. Technically, since they moved Pact of the Blade to level 1, and the only prerequisite for Improved Pact Weapon is "Pact of the Blade" you can now take it at level 2, instead of level 3 as before.
The opportunity cost of taking the time to cast a ritual spell is probably smaller than the opportunity cost involved in picking a particular invocation and being stuck with it for a level.
The Warlock gets more spells known than it gets invocations, and not all invocations are spells.
The ritual spells that allow the Warlock to duplicate the effects of invocations are Comprehend Languages and Detect Magic. It is far easier to fit them into two of their 15 known spells than it is to fit them into their 9 invocations, especially when between 1 and 4 of them are tied up in Mystic Arcanum. At level 2, when you get your first two invocations, you have 3 known level 1 spells. You probably don't want to take both Detect Magic and Comprehend Languages, but you can pick one or the other.
When I was building my 2014 Hexblade(s) the first invocations I took were always Agonizing Blast and Mask of Many Faces. I would likely do that now, except Lessons of the First Ones now exists to provide another level 1 known spell and two cantrips via Magic Initiate. Mask is still a good option, but Lessons is also a good option. Magic Initiate (Divine) for Searing Smite (or Wrathful Smite) might be good for Blade Pact Warlocks. It scales faster than Hex, and does about twice the damage. A level 1 slot will do d6 damage on the hit, then d6 damage before they get to make their save. A level 2 slot will do 2d6 up front, then another d6 (or 2d6 depending on how you read the rules) before the save. 3d6 and d6 for a level 3 slot etc.
That said, some Hexblade players didn't take Eldritch Blast at all, so didn't take Agonizing Blast. Now it's a free known spell, so not taking Agonizing Blast is a bit of a nonce decision.
Since I play Drow almost exclusively, at level 4 I would take the Drow High Magic feat for on demand Detect Magic and once per day Levitate and Dispel Magic. That feat, and Drow's racials, added a decent number of spells to the 2014 Warlock, and would likely be handy for the UA version. Also good for Sorcerer.
At level 3 most Tome players would take the Book of Ancient Secrets to get their cantrips and ritual casting.
At level 5 with Hexblade I had to take Thirsting Blade to keep up with the martials. Other Warlocks had free choice of the Warlock invocations. Tome players could replace the invocation they sacrificed for Book if they wanted to. For the UA Warlock this is where they first get the option of a Mystic Arcanum, which they want, so they still only have two options. Pact of the Tome does get to replace Agonizing Blast with something else. As I've probably said before, or at least heavily implied, Pact of the Tome is the best Warlock pact. It was in 2014, and it still is today. With Spell Sniper it will consistently equal or surpass the melee damage of a Blade pact Warlock, except for the levels between 9 and 11 where Blade has Lifedrinker and Tome doesn't have the extra beam.
At level 7 with Hexblade I took Improved Pact Weapon, since it was a decent improvement to the Warlock's standard kit. I tended to build based on the assumption I'd never get a magic item, and treated it as a nice bonus if I did. Other Warlock players could take Sculptor of Flesh for once per long rest Polymorph, but because they were getting level 4 spell options anyway they didn't have to. The UA Warlock... oh, that's right. Another Mystic Arcanum. You have four invocations, but two of them are Mystic Arcanum. In 2014 you had four invocations, and one of them was probably Agonizing Blast. Tome would almost certainly have Book of Ancient Secrets, and Blade was the most invocation heavy of the three. It took a lot of specialization to make a caster into a martial, but it could be a darn good martial.
A dedicated martial Hexblade, Polearm Master, Improved Pact Weapon, Thirsting Blade, Eldritch Smite, Lifedrinker, Spirit Shroud, could put out very respectable sustained damage over multiple turns. The Paladin dumping its spell slots into Divine Smites gave it incredible one turn damage spikes, but the Hexblade could outdamage it over multiple turns as the Paladin ran out of slots. The Paladin is a thoroughbred, while the Hexblade is a mustang.
At level 9 with Hexblade it was usually a toss up between Eldritch Smite and Sculptor of Flesh. Sculptor of Flesh was better, but Eldritch Smite gave that "arcane Paladin" feel I was going for. Eldritch Smite is a bad invocation on a class with few spell slots, but I generally didn't worry too much about that. If I had them to spare I'd use them, and if I didn't I didn't. Spirit Shroud upcast to level 5 could provide a fair sustained damage boost since it was adding 2d8 radiant to every hit. Counterspell being automatically upcast to level 5 made dispelling more reliable as foes got higher level spells.
In the UA Warlock can finally drop one of its level 3 Mystic Arcanum for a level 5 Mystic Arcanum. It has 5 invocations, and only two of them are reserved for Mystic Arcanum. Three free options if you're going Tome, two if not. If you're going Blade you'll probably take Lifedrinker. The other Pact specific choices... exist.
Level 11, 6 invocations... three of them are Mystic Arcanum. Moving on. It's here that the 2014 Warlock starts getting Mystic Arcanum, getting a level 6 spell. But that doesn't cut into its invocation allowance so while it has only five at this point, your only "no brainer" choices are Agonizing Blast and Book of Ancient Secrets (which should be stuffed full of ritual spells by now). Blade, as expected, has three tied up with making itself a good fighter, and likely has Agonizing Blast as well. For me the "free" one was still Mask of Many Faces. Proficiency with persuasion and deception, on a charisma caster, who can look like anyone, is a lot of fun. In Descent into Avernus I once convinced a bunch of devils to go and fight a bunch of undead, allowing my party to proceed unmolested.
Level 12, 2014 gets 6 invocations, 2014 Blade takes Lifedrinker.
Level 13 UA gets 7 invocations, it finally gets a 4th level spell slot. It can, in theory, drop the level 4 Mystic Arcanum for a level 7, but given you only have a single level 4 slot you might want to hang onto that level 4 to effectively double your high level casting for the day. 7 invocations, three (or four) are Mystic Arcanum.
Level 15 UA, 8 invocations. Levels 8, 7, 6, and 5 Mystic Arcanum. You have two level 4 slots now, so can probably do without the level 4 Mystic Arcanum. Though, again, Full Casters have three level 4 slots at this point, and Warlock only two. Four of your invocations (maybe five) taken as Mystic Arcanum.
Level 17 UA. 9, 9 invocations. Hah hah hah. I love to count. You definitely want levels 9, 8, 7, and 6 Mystic Arcanum. You might want a level 5 to give another casting of a level 5 spell.
As you level up with Warlock the invocation tax from Mystic Arcanum means that you'll rarely have more than a couple of free choices. Because you'll be stuck with whatever choice you make until you level up again (which goes for spells as well) you'll want to take invocations that provide maximum benefit for your investment. It's why Agonizing Blast is a no-brainer, and why it should really just be built into the Eldritch Blast cantrip, which I think Aquilontune has already mentioned. I also suggested it in my feedback to the Warlock survey.
There might be circumstances where on demand Levitate is useful. But will those circumstances show up as often as on demand Disguise Self, or Detect Magic? Will it happen often enough that simply taking Fly as one of your known spells won't be more useful? Some of the more interesting uses of Levitate, like casting it on a 500 pound object, can't happen with Ascendant Step because you can only cast it on yourself. Checking the racial spells many come with (like Drow) can help to bolster your options. Forest Gnomes now come with Speak with Animals if you think you'll really need the spell.
A "situational" option that requires a significant sacrifice of a very finite resource is probably not going to be taken. Invocations, like spell slots, are a finite resource. Mystic Arcanum are a better expenditure of that resource than most invocations are. You could, in theory, expend all 9 invocations to take Mystic Arcanum, but that would be pretty dumb. However between 1 and 4 will have to be part of your build plan, perhaps taking more at certain levels to give yourself more casting options. If you don't invest any invocations in Mystic Arcanum you're then a half caster Eldritch Blast turret, who's always trailing far behind the full casters. That is an option, but I don't think any Warlock player, if the UA Warlock goes into print, will choose that option.
Nononononono stop that. It's a new class. As I showed earlier, people said that Tasha's optional class features carried over when the original UA Rogue dropped, but (as if it wasn't clear enough already) Jeremy Crawford said in a video that people wanted Steady Aim as a Rogue feature. And he didn't say, "wElL gUyS, yOu WeRe SuPpOsEd To UsE tHe RuLeS fRoM tHe ThInG wE aReN't EvEn PlAyTeStInG fRoM tHe LaSt EdItIoN." He said, "Rogue's have Steady Aim now."
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
There is some thoughts here. I do not believe we would prefer Mystic arcanum to be removed AND lower number of invocations. I DO think we want the more "situational" invocations a little more strength.
An example I had was Eye's of the Runekeeper and Eldritch sight being rolled into one. I also would like to see Misty visions and Mask of Many faces rolled into one. I tend to agree that those invocations need al little more umph. I tend to think at will spells should be provided at the same level you first have access to that spell as a "half caster" like at will levitate at 5, or at will jump at level 2. The only except I find would be Arcane eye at 15 with witch sight (2 invocations I think are a little under-rated at will arcane eye is super good and perma short range truesight that doesn't use your one 6th level spell is also really good). But I am OK with mystic arcanum being an invocation as long as we get more invocations. I DO want Agonizing blast as part of EB ESPECIALLY if it going to scale with Warlock level anyway. I DO want 1 more invocation at level 3 with mystic arcanum being an option making for 10 by the end. But whether it is 6 invocations and 4 mystic arcanum with all "invocation taxes" removed or it is 10 Invocations with no Invocation tax from pacts and mystic arcanum being invocations it makes no difference to me. Maybe someone will WANT to play that character that doesn't have those higher level slots for some crazy reason.
A note about level 13, 15 and 17. Remember than when you unlock 4th level spells, and later when you unlock 5th level spells, you also unlock your pact spell. Which means in addition to having your 1 4th level slot you also have one free cast from your patron spell list, which is usually going to be reserved for the highest level spell there extending the casting a bit more than would be otherwise suggested.