I noted there was some both positive and negative reviews of the Bard being able to use any of the three different spell lists (and then all three later) as well as the reception of how the new Warlock was received. Without delving into anything else, what would people think about Warlocks being able to choose one of the three spell lists and maybe choose a second spell list at a higher level? Celestials and Elementals are still options to make pacts with (and I like the idea of some superior Treant being able to grant magic).
That would rather fit sorcerers, than warlocks, with their different possible origins of powers (besides, it's how Sylvan and Empyrean sorcerer subclasses work in Pathfinder), but then there would be barely any difference between sorcerer and bard at all.
Also, I think it would be neat if there was some kind of general rule on which spell list uses which ability. Int for arcane, Wis for primal, Cha for divine. Right now it's a random mess.
Since the spells a warlock has access to should largely be defined by their patron, I'd say that the subclass should extend the spell list as appropriate (patron spells). Same goes for the sorcerer (e.g., Divine Soul).
That said, I don't like the bards having access to the full arcane list either, so I'm somewhat biased.
That half caster warlock is dead. Not because of how it was reviewed but because it would require this to be 6th edition not 5e revised. When 5eR releases you should be able to use Tasha’s and any book after that subclasses as well. Or at least that’s what they are testing to see if it works in this UA.
That half caster warlock is dead. Not because of how it was reviewed but because it would require this to be 6th edition not 5e revised. When 5eR releases you should be able to use Tasha’s and any book after that subclasses as well. Or at least that’s what they are testing to see if it works in this UA.
that's not a bad point about backwards compatibility. after ua5 I'd expected bards to go half caster on the warlock template. charismatic rule breaking not-full-mage who copys/steals/borrows magical secrets above their pay grade? makes as much sense as anything and more sense than some others. but, no, apparently someone decided to get ahead of tasha's and take things the other way. now the question is whether bards will be reeled in and chalked up to a playtest quirk or if warlocks are in for a big buff too.
...personally, I'd rather see bards come back down. power creep is real.
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unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
Personally I think the Warlock only needed a small revision to spells - one or two more for pact magic (especially during that terrible period of levels 2-20 where they have 2 damn spells) or being able to cast each spell level from the patron list 1x per day for free (like the optional ranger ability from Tasha's). The second option might actually be better for differentiating each type of Warlock pact, but that's just a personal opinion.
Sorcerers being able to cast from other class lists makes a lot of sense - the Divine Soul being suspect #1, but a Fey-focused sorcerer having the Primal list also fits the theme.
I'd also be more inclined to give the spell list option to sorcerers based on bloodline / origin. Warlocks can gain access to spells from other lists based on patron spells.
I'd actually like it if things would land in a nice pattern, one full caster and one half-caster per spell list: druid and ranger for primal, cleric and paladin for divine, wizard and warlock for arcane, and sorcerer and bard for versatility (limited by spells known), bard being half-caster.
Also, I think it would be neat if there was some kind of general rule on which spell list uses which ability. Int for arcane, Wis for primal, Cha for divine. Right now it's a random mess.
Hard disagree. It adds a lot of interest and depth that different classes access the same lists in different ways. Wisdom for Clerics and Charisma for Paladins really helps highlight their differences, despite them both having the same list. This is one thing that shouldn't be standardized.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I'd actually like it if things would land in a nice pattern, one full caster and one half-caster per spell list: druid and ranger for primal, cleric and paladin for divine, wizard and warlock for arcane, and sorcerer and bard for versatility (limited by spells known), bard being half-caster.
going to have to disagree with warlock being a half caster would be fine with bard or sorcerer being half casters
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if i say something inflammatory the intention is not to trigger an emotional response and the fact that it does so is purely accidental and I sincerely apologise if it does
I'd actually like it if things would land in a nice pattern, one full caster and one half-caster per spell list: druid and ranger for primal, cleric and paladin for divine, wizard and warlock for arcane, and sorcerer and bard for versatility (limited by spells known), bard being half-caster.
going to have to disagree with warlock being a half caster would be fine with bard or sorcerer being half casters
i read that as ranger, paladin, warlock, and bard being the half-casters. i don't think anyone is asking to clip sorcerers' wings.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
That half caster warlock is dead. Not because of how it was reviewed but because it would require this to be 6th edition not 5e revised. When 5eR releases you should be able to use Tasha’s and any book after that subclasses as well. Or at least that’s what they are testing to see if it works in this UA.
Well, that is the irony. The Half-caster warlock works with the previous subclasses. The only thing that you change is they get their patron spells automatically instead of just getting access to them (which is a common house rule anyway). It was both a huge change, and yet surprisingly one of the most backwards compatible classes.
I'd actually like it if things would land in a nice pattern, one full caster and one half-caster per spell list: druid and ranger for primal, cleric and paladin for divine, wizard and warlock for arcane, and sorcerer and bard for versatility (limited by spells known), bard being half-caster.
going to have to disagree with warlock being a half caster would be fine with bard or sorcerer being half casters
i read that as ranger, paladin, warlock, and bard being the half-casters. i don't think anyone is asking to clip sorcerers' wings.
I apologise for my poor punctuation I mean warlock should most definitely not be a half caster and that I could see bard or sorcerers working as half casters unlike warlock which to me at least would most definitely become little more than a clunky mess I am not suggesting we in any way clip the sorcerers wings (note this is not meant to be snarky please read this with a sincere tone)
if i say something inflammatory the intention is not to trigger an emotional response and the fact that it does so is purely accidental and I sincerely apologise if it does
That half caster warlock is dead. Not because of how it was reviewed but because it would require this to be 6th edition not 5e revised. When 5eR releases you should be able to use Tasha’s and any book after that subclasses as well. Or at least that’s what they are testing to see if it works in this UA.
Well, that is the irony. The Half-caster warlock works with the previous subclasses. The only thing that you change is they get their patron spells automatically instead of just getting access to them (which is a common house rule anyway). It was both a huge change, and yet surprisingly one of the most backwards compatible classes.
While that is almost true it falls apart because of the subclass introduced in tasha’s. At 10th level it gives you access to a 4th level spell. The half caster version of Warlock wouldn’t able to cast that spell. Could they make Fathomless a part of the 2024 PHB to fix that, sure. It doesn’t seem like that is the direction they would go, but anything is possible.
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I noted there was some both positive and negative reviews of the Bard being able to use any of the three different spell lists (and then all three later) as well as the reception of how the new Warlock was received. Without delving into anything else, what would people think about Warlocks being able to choose one of the three spell lists and maybe choose a second spell list at a higher level? Celestials and Elementals are still options to make pacts with (and I like the idea of some superior Treant being able to grant magic).
Also, bring back Pact of the Talisman, please.
I like it. I had pretty much the same thought when I saw that bards can select which spell-list they start with.
That would rather fit sorcerers, than warlocks, with their different possible origins of powers (besides, it's how Sylvan and Empyrean sorcerer subclasses work in Pathfinder), but then there would be barely any difference between sorcerer and bard at all.
Also, I think it would be neat if there was some kind of general rule on which spell list uses which ability. Int for arcane, Wis for primal, Cha for divine. Right now it's a random mess.
Since the spells a warlock has access to should largely be defined by their patron, I'd say that the subclass should extend the spell list as appropriate (patron spells). Same goes for the sorcerer (e.g., Divine Soul).
That said, I don't like the bards having access to the full arcane list either, so I'm somewhat biased.
That half caster warlock is dead. Not because of how it was reviewed but because it would require this to be 6th edition not 5e revised. When 5eR releases you should be able to use Tasha’s and any book after that subclasses as well. Or at least that’s what they are testing to see if it works in this UA.
that's not a bad point about backwards compatibility. after ua5 I'd expected bards to go half caster on the warlock template. charismatic rule breaking not-full-mage who copys/steals/borrows magical secrets above their pay grade? makes as much sense as anything and more sense than some others. but, no, apparently someone decided to get ahead of tasha's and take things the other way. now the question is whether bards will be reeled in and chalked up to a playtest quirk or if warlocks are in for a big buff too.
...personally, I'd rather see bards come back down. power creep is real.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Personally I think the Warlock only needed a small revision to spells - one or two more for pact magic (especially during that terrible period of levels 2-20 where they have 2 damn spells) or being able to cast each spell level from the patron list 1x per day for free (like the optional ranger ability from Tasha's). The second option might actually be better for differentiating each type of Warlock pact, but that's just a personal opinion.
Sorcerers being able to cast from other class lists makes a lot of sense - the Divine Soul being suspect #1, but a Fey-focused sorcerer having the Primal list also fits the theme.
I'd also be more inclined to give the spell list option to sorcerers based on bloodline / origin. Warlocks can gain access to spells from other lists based on patron spells.
I'd actually like it if things would land in a nice pattern, one full caster and one half-caster per spell list: druid and ranger for primal, cleric and paladin for divine, wizard and warlock for arcane, and sorcerer and bard for versatility (limited by spells known), bard being half-caster.
Hard disagree. It adds a lot of interest and depth that different classes access the same lists in different ways. Wisdom for Clerics and Charisma for Paladins really helps highlight their differences, despite them both having the same list. This is one thing that shouldn't be standardized.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
To what practical purposes? Filling a description grid like that doesn't improve the game.
going to have to disagree with warlock being a half caster would be fine with bard or sorcerer being half casters
if i say something inflammatory the intention is not to trigger an emotional response and the fact that it does so is purely accidental and I sincerely apologise if it does
i read that as ranger, paladin, warlock, and bard being the half-casters. i don't think anyone is asking to clip sorcerers' wings.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Well, that is the irony. The Half-caster warlock works with the previous subclasses. The only thing that you change is they get their patron spells automatically instead of just getting access to them (which is a common house rule anyway). It was both a huge change, and yet surprisingly one of the most backwards compatible classes.
I apologise for my poor punctuation I mean warlock should most definitely not be a half caster and that I could see bard or sorcerers working as half casters unlike warlock which to me at least would most definitely become little more than a clunky mess I am not suggesting we in any way clip the sorcerers wings (note this is not meant to be snarky please read this with a sincere tone)
if i say something inflammatory the intention is not to trigger an emotional response and the fact that it does so is purely accidental and I sincerely apologise if it does
While that is almost true it falls apart because of the subclass introduced in tasha’s. At 10th level it gives you access to a 4th level spell. The half caster version of Warlock wouldn’t able to cast that spell. Could they make Fathomless a part of the 2024 PHB to fix that, sure. It doesn’t seem like that is the direction they would go, but anything is possible.