It's curious that you mention Armor of Agathys because one of the problems with Pact Magic is precisely that. Of the entire list of spells available to the warlock, due to the uniqueness of the warlock's magic system, only a handful are truly viable. Armor of agathys for example.
It's curious that you mention Armor of Agathys because one of the problems with Pact Magic is precisely that. Of the entire list of spells available to the warlock, due to the uniqueness of the warlock's magic system, only a handful are truly viable. Armor of agathys for example.
Indeed, and with the half caster system we were relegated to doing exactly what during combat with the increased number of spell slots? Cast shield more often?
It's curious that you mention Armor of Agathys because one of the problems with Pact Magic is precisely that. Of the entire list of spells available to the warlock, due to the uniqueness of the warlock's magic system, only a handful are truly viable. Armor of agathys for example.
Indeed, and with the half caster system we were relegated to doing exactly what during combat with the increased number of spell slots? Cast shield more often?
For example, yes. That's for the bladelock.
But you will also cast other low level spells more often such as Absorb Elements, Chromatic Orb, Magic Missile, Misty Step (solved with the new Archfey), Flaming Sphere, Mirror Image, Web, etc... (Taking into account the open lists of spells. With the closed lists by classes, we would have to see).
But the most interesting thing is that outside of combat you have many options too.
It's really only bad if you never get short rests. And that's the DM's fault, take it up with him. The DM should be cognizant of short rests necessity. They're in the game for a reason, and plenty enough classes and subclasses have abilities that recharge on a short rest. If your DM isn't giving you enough, he's screwing you over the same as if every encounter was 5+ CRs above your abilities. This UA already gave you an extra casting per day, if your DM was a good DM, you'd get enough short rests to deal, as well as a rod of the pact master (fighters get +1 swords, don't they?). That's another spell slot per day. If your DM is not routinely screwing you over, that's plenty if you know how to play the class.
TBH Warlock isn't even bad without any short rests, they are comparable in power to a fighter that never gets short rests so I don't see the issue. Warlocks aren't intended to be casting levelled spells every round, or even every combat.
It's really only bad if you never get short rests. And that's the DM's fault, take it up with him. The DM should be cognizant of short rests necessity. They're in the game for a reason, and plenty enough classes and subclasses have abilities that recharge on a short rest. If your DM isn't giving you enough, he's screwing you over the same as if every encounter was 5+ CRs above your abilities. This UA already gave you an extra casting per day, if your DM was a good DM, you'd get enough short rests to deal, as well as a rod of the pact master (fighters get +1 swords, don't they?). That's another spell slot per day. If your DM is not routinely screwing you over, that's plenty if you know how to play the class.
I think you really don't understand the problem.
If you can do the short rests you want, the warlock is broken. If you don't do short rests, or do them only when the story calls for it (which should be normal. There's little point in sitting next to a room full of monsters to rest), the warlock has virtually no magic.
In any case, warlock magic with pact magic depends on something circumstantial.
That's the first problem.
The second problem is that all spell slots are at same level. Therefore, only a few spells are useful (those that scale, or those that are good enough on their own like Shadow of Moil or Sickening Radiance).
The third problem is that you have almost no options. It is a class with a flat and boring gameplay. I've played a lot of warlocks because I like the flavor, but in combat they're boring. Eldritch Blast spam, and a spell here and there.
The fourth problem is that the uniqueness of his magic system means that there are very few viable combinations.
And the fifth problem is that you have no utility magic. Many utility magic spells are level 1 or 2, but you're not going to waste one of your precious spell slots on that.
It's really only bad if you never get short rests. And that's the DM's fault, take it up with him. The DM should be cognizant of short rests necessity. They're in the game for a reason, and plenty enough classes and subclasses have abilities that recharge on a short rest. If your DM isn't giving you enough, he's screwing you over the same as if every encounter was 5+ CRs above your abilities. This UA already gave you an extra casting per day, if your DM was a good DM, you'd get enough short rests to deal, as well as a rod of the pact master (fighters get +1 swords, don't they?). That's another spell slot per day. If your DM is not routinely screwing you over, that's plenty if you know how to play the class.
I think you really don't understand the problem.
If you can do the short rests you want, the warlock is broken. If you don't do short rests, or do them only when the story calls for it (which should be normal. There's little point in sitting next to a room full of monsters to rest), the warlock has virtually no magic.
In any case, warlock magic with pact magic depends on something circumstantial.
That's the first problem.
The second problem is that all spell slots are at same level. Therefore, only a few spells are useful (those that scale, or those that are good enough on their own like Shadow of Moil or Sickening Radiance).
The third problem is that you have almost no options. It is a class with a flat and boring gameplay. I've played a lot of warlocks because I like the flavor, but in combat they're boring. Eldritch Blast spam, and a spell here and there.
The fourth problem is that the uniqueness of his magic system means that there are very few viable combinations.
And the fifth problem is that you have no utility magic. Many utility magic spells are level 1 or 2, but you're not going to waste one of your precious spell slots on that.
Is a bad dessing.
This is a pretty fair summary of the cons. I'd love to cast shield as a level 5 Hexblade (if that still exists :) ) but casting a level 1 reaction spell instead of a level 3 scaled up or powerful AOE feels very punishing.
And if I'm reading the new Pact of the Blade invocation correctly, it looks like they're not planning on offering the Hexblade as a patron anytime soon, as it confers what's probably the best advantage of that subclass (using CHA modifier for attack and damage rolls).
To be honest, I think that with the changes to Pact of the Blade are good for Hexblade. Now instead of it being just "Pact of the Blade, the subclass" it can branch out into it's own identity. Imagine if it was changed into a subclass about Cursed items instead! You could play a character that found a cursed tome and that's how they got there warlock powers!
Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast are back to being a broken MC dip, only now it only costs you 1 level instead of 2. So get ready for every Bard & Sorcerer also being a EB spammer. And every Paladin is dipping 1 level for Pact of the Blade for a CHA-based Polearm.
I was real upset about that honestly. Agonizing Blast REALLY needs to scale with Warlock level instead of just Cantrip progression. I will say I'm happy to see that they've at least tried to let other cantrips benefit. An idea I had to fix this is to just have it give a d6 to cantrip damage. Then at 5th, 11th, and 17th levels you add an additional d6. It's a very slight nerf at high levels, but it's FAR from breaking.
I also think that Polearm is just the problem. Maybe it shouldn't qualify for Great Weapon Fighting?
There are people who wanted the short rest cast though. Go play a wizard if yo want a long rest class. don't take it away from the one caster class that has it.
There has to be SOME compromise between constantly needing a short rest and being a long rest caster. And magic cunning ain't it. It's probably the worse way they could have implemented it. It's honestly like they are terrified of Warlocks potentially casting 3 leveled spells in a combat. Which is wild when you consider that Sorcerers can cast AT LEAST 5 of their highest level spells in a combat starting at level 3.
TBH Warlock isn't even bad without any short rests, they are comparable in power to a fighter that never gets short rests so I don't see the issue. Warlocks aren't intended to be casting levelled spells every round, or even every combat.
Implying Fighters without short rests aren't bad? I also think most people want to cast a level spell every combat. Ergo the consistent feedback of wanting to cast more spells.
It's really only bad if you never get short rests. And that's the DM's fault, take it up with him. The DM should be cognizant of short rests necessity. They're in the game for a reason, and plenty enough classes and subclasses have abilities that recharge on a short rest. If your DM isn't giving you enough, he's screwing you over the same as if every encounter was 5+ CRs above your abilities. This UA already gave you an extra casting per day, if your DM was a good DM, you'd get enough short rests to deal, as well as a rod of the pact master (fighters get +1 swords, don't they?). That's another spell slot per day. If your DM is not routinely screwing you over, that's plenty if you know how to play the class.
I think you really don't understand the problem.
If you can do the short rests you want, the warlock is broken. If you don't do short rests, or do them only when the story calls for it (which should be normal. There's little point in sitting next to a room full of monsters to rest), the warlock has virtually no magic.
In any case, warlock magic with pact magic depends on something circumstantial.
That's the first problem.
The second problem is that all spell slots are at same level. Therefore, only a few spells are useful (those that scale, or those that are good enough on their own like Shadow of Moil or Sickening Radiance).
The third problem is that you have almost no options. It is a class with a flat and boring gameplay. I've played a lot of warlocks because I like the flavor, but in combat they're boring. Eldritch Blast spam, and a spell here and there.
The fourth problem is that the uniqueness of his magic system means that there are very few viable combinations.
And the fifth problem is that you have no utility magic. Many utility magic spells are level 1 or 2, but you're not going to waste one of your precious spell slots on that.
Is a bad dessing.
Do you whine when your Battle Master is out of dice? He still has a weapon, right? There you go.
While I am very upset that the stop-gap measure of “Magical Cunning” was implemented (it should seriously be set as like half PB times per day or twice per long rest or something to get any oomph), I’ll just have to fondly remember that the day we had an occultist class (the revised warlock). I’ll make do with loading up on things like Rune Shaper, Shadow/Fey Touched etc through the Lessons invocation. It’s a weird band-aid, but hey, ya’ll said we could crib feats with impunity so let the cheese happen.
But in all seriousness…the improved familiar options really need something better than the list we got which obnoxiously favors Imps. Also, are we using the 2014 Find Familiar or the one that was released several months ago?
TBH Warlock isn't even bad without any short rests, they are comparable in power to a fighter that never gets short rests so I don't see the issue. Warlocks aren't intended to be casting levelled spells every round, or even every combat.
Implying Fighters without short rests aren't bad? I also think most people want to cast a level spell every combat. Ergo the consistent feedback of wanting to cast more spells.
Those are people who want their cake and to eat it too, though. If you want to cast a spell every combat play a wizard or a sorcerer. Warlock is designed around spamming "I attack" with their weapon or "I cast EB" and using their Pact Magic only when needed, it's basically like their version of Action Surge. A fighter without short rests isn't bad, I mean most optimizers don't even factor in short rests and fighter is fine.
Regardless, I preferred the UA5 Warlock. Making them a half-caster just plays better with multiclassing other casters. I do miss the flexible spellcasting mod based on Pact, which I honestly thought was maybe too strong as Warlocks were already one of the most multiclassable classes in the game ... but I loved it all the same.
With how hard they're rolling back the previous changes (not just for Warlocks) it seems they're stuck on OneD&D being backwards compatible, but I personally have zero problems with both iterations (2014 and UA5) existing in the game at the same time based on the DM.
It's really only bad if you never get short rests. And that's the DM's fault, take it up with him. The DM should be cognizant of short rests necessity. They're in the game for a reason, and plenty enough classes and subclasses have abilities that recharge on a short rest. If your DM isn't giving you enough, he's screwing you over the same as if every encounter was 5+ CRs above your abilities. This UA already gave you an extra casting per day, if your DM was a good DM, you'd get enough short rests to deal, as well as a rod of the pact master (fighters get +1 swords, don't they?). That's another spell slot per day. If your DM is not routinely screwing you over, that's plenty if you know how to play the class.
I think you really don't understand the problem.
If you can do the short rests you want, the warlock is broken. If you don't do short rests, or do them only when the story calls for it (which should be normal. There's little point in sitting next to a room full of monsters to rest), the warlock has virtually no magic.
In any case, warlock magic with pact magic depends on something circumstantial.
That's the first problem.
The second problem is that all spell slots are at same level. Therefore, only a few spells are useful (those that scale, or those that are good enough on their own like Shadow of Moil or Sickening Radiance).
The third problem is that you have almost no options. It is a class with a flat and boring gameplay. I've played a lot of warlocks because I like the flavor, but in combat they're boring. Eldritch Blast spam, and a spell here and there.
The fourth problem is that the uniqueness of his magic system means that there are very few viable combinations.
And the fifth problem is that you have no utility magic. Many utility magic spells are level 1 or 2, but you're not going to waste one of your precious spell slots on that.
Is a bad dessing.
You manufacturing a problem isn't the same as there being one.
problem one, no more than any other rest based system including long rests. In fact it should always be easier to get a short rest than a long one so it is less circumstantial. And the warlock never ends up being broken as long as they don't have weird spells like animate dead which need a nerf anyways.
problem 2, Take pact of the tome and a feat or two, problem mostly solved.
Problem 3, you not knowing how to play the class is not the same as having no options. they have far more options than any martial and somehow martials survive.
4th good, there should be less. Multi classing is a pox on the system.
5th, that's a you problem. I have and many warlocks have plenty of utility. Not being a wizard is not the same as not having utility.
So I want to note a big problem with the playtest 5 lock vs this lock was the invocations. The Playtest 5 lock had plenty of low level slots to use for their utility spells and minor magical tricks and this is why the most valuable invocations on it were all ones that gave a higher level spell slot giving them their "bombs" or something that adjusted EB or gave some other big combat thing. There were way too many at will casting invocations that just weren't worth it anymore on that chassy. This is the reverse, your bombs are on your spell casting but your utility is largely going to come from your known spells likely including ritual spells and your invocations. The invocations just fit a lot better here.
Another factor is being back to the warlock spell list. If there wasn't a complaint among wizards and sorcs that people felt they were stepping on each others toes in UA5 I am almost certain we would be seeing a different warlock right now. All because you CAN'T give them a bunch of high level casts that recharge on a short rest with the entire wizard list.
I do believe playtest 5 COULD have worked, but the invocations would have needed a lot of work.
In truth just thinking of all the times I wanted a short rest and couldn't get one being able to get 1 spell back would definitely have alleviated that pain point, every, single, time. Because every time it was one more fight and then we took a short rest anyway. So I only had to deal with one inconvenient fight, now that could have been BECAUSE I didn't have a spell to cast and everyone suffered more because of it though so it may be now I get that spell back, use it in the fight and they STILL don't want to short rest because I saved all their bacons and they think we are fine.
While eating breakfast, the basic outline of an idea came to me. Let's see if I can make it legible :)
Imagine this warlock spell-slot model:
Warlocks get the same progression as full casters, but they only get 1 spell-slot per spell level. On a short rest, they receive an Arcane Recovery-style effect, restoring half their warlock level worth of spell-slots (rounded up), to a maximum of one per spell level, and a maximum of a 5th level slot.
This means, for instance, that a 5th-level warlock normally has a 1st-, a 2nd-, and a 3rd-level spell slot; and on short rest recovers 3 spell-levels worth of slots. This warlock then chooses how to allocate these slots. Maybe they elect to recover their 3rd-level spell slot, or instead take their 1st and their 2nd?
In this model, warlocks wouldn't get the mystic arcanum feature, but it would essentially be the same. Instead they get actual high-level spell slots that they could also use to upcast with, if they so desire. And these 6th to 9th level slots can't be recharged during a short rest.
All in all, this would allow the warlock to have more spells per encounters, able to spend low-level slots on situational low-level spells without cutting off their ability to use more powerful magic later, and the ability to recover a significant portion of these slots (but not all of them) on a short rest. Main difference is that the warlock wouldn't be able to use up four 5th-level slots every short rest. The trade-off is sustain and versatility at lower levels at the cost of nova power at very high levels.
Compared with the UA7 warlock, and assuming 2 short rests per adventuring day and assuming that this proposed warlock variant will attempt to recover their highest spell-slots whenever possible.
UA7 Warlock 5: (2 slots total) 2 3rd Total of 6 slots per LR.
Variant Warlock 5: (3 slots total) 1 1st through 3rd Recover 3rd-level slot on each SR. Total of 5 slots per LR.
UA7 Warlock 11: (3 slots total) 3 5th Total of 9 slots per LR plus 1 (Mystic Arcanum 6th).
Variant Warlock 11: (6 slots total) 1 1st through 6th Recover 1st and 5th-level slot on each SR. Total of 10 slots per LR.
UA7 Warlock 17: (4 slots total) 4 5th Total of 12 slots per LR plus 4 (Mystic Arcanum 6th through 9th)
Variant Warlock 17: (9 slots total) 1 st through 9th Recover 4th and 5th-level slot on each SR. Total of 13 slots per LR.
...
Or maybe I should go back to eating my breakfast. Hmms.
You manufacturing a problem isn't the same as there being one.
You ignoring a problem isn't the same as there not being one.
problem one, no more than any other rest based system including long rests. In fact it should always be easier to get a short rest than a long one so it is less circumstantial. And the warlock never ends up being broken as long as they don't have weird spells like animate dead which need a nerf anyways.
Tell me you've never played a serious campaign of D&D without telling me you've never played a serious campaign of D&D.
problem 2, Take pact of the tome and a feat or two, problem mostly solved.
Lawl. One singular first-level spell slot is not a solution to the warlock's inability to utilize utility magic. Especially since they eliminated one of the most useful utility Invocations in Eldritch Sight. There were serious advantages to being able to have Detect Magic going right away, at will, rather than waiting ten agonizing minutes for a ritual cast - especiall since now you have to waste a known spell on it. They eliminated Eldritch Sight, Beast Speech, Eyes of the Runekeeper...a bunch of the coolest flavor Invocations that allowed the warlock some narrow utility niche in which it was not garbage. No, one singular first-level spell slot does not replace those losses.
Problem 3, you not knowing how to play the class is not the same as having no options. they have far more options than any martial and somehow martials survive.
Yeah, the game sure does allow for more competent teammates to pick up an individually weak character's slack. When the warlock blows its load in the first fight, because casting one singular leveled spell constitutes 'blowing its load', the rest of the party has to deal with the warlock basically being a heavy crossbow fighter, but with half the HP, piss-poor AC, and no ability to defend itself in melee combat without very specific jank. Is Eldritch Bonk really good? Sure - but people are sick of it being expected to carry the entire damn class based solely and exclusively on the damage from Eldritch Bonk + Agonizing Doink.
4th good, there should be less. Multi classing is a pox on the system.
Multiclassing is perfectly fine. Wizards failing to take multiclassing into account when designing classes is less fine. The warlock being a Charisma class when it damn well shouldn't be is NOT fine, and is basically the only reason warlock dips are ever considered a problem. Nobody would give a shit if wizards were taking a level or three of warlock - after all, they've gotta find some weird shit sometimes in all those dusty tomes they keep digging through, who's to say they're not willing to make a deal or two to expand their capabilities beyond what their learning grants them? But because warlocks and ******* paladins share a spellcasting ability, you get the whole Sad Dingdong CHA-based swordsman.
The only thing they have to do to break that combo and bring balance back to the Force is make warlocks a ******* Intelligence class. That's all they have to do. Problem: Solved.
5th, that's a you problem. I have and many warlocks have plenty of utility. Not being a wizard is not the same as not having utility.
Uh huh sure yep. Being able to cast one spell one time once per day suuuuure is a whole lotta utility. Man, it's really just such a shame that people keep expecting this MAGE CLASS to be able to USE MAGIC. What a totally ridiculous idea, who would ever be so dense as to figure a mage should cast spells?! Preposterous! Why, warlocks have plenty of utility - they have the same four skill proficiencies every class gets! That's plenty of utility! Who could ever reasonably ask for more?
You manufacturing a problem isn't the same as there being one.
You ignoring a problem isn't the same as there not being one.
problem one, no more than any other rest based system including long rests. In fact it should always be easier to get a short rest than a long one so it is less circumstantial. And the warlock never ends up being broken as long as they don't have weird spells like animate dead which need a nerf anyways.
Tell me you've never played a serious campaign of D&D without telling me you've never played a serious campaign of D&D.
problem 2, Take pact of the tome and a feat or two, problem mostly solved.
Lawl. One singular first-level spell slot is not a solution to the warlock's inability to utilize utility magic. Especially since they eliminated one of the most useful utility Invocations in Eldritch Sight. There were serious advantages to being able to have Detect Magic going right away, at will, rather than waiting ten agonizing minutes for a ritual cast - especiall since now you have to waste a known spell on it. They eliminated Eldritch Sight, Beast Speech, Eyes of the Runekeeper...a bunch of the coolest flavor Invocations that allowed the warlock some narrow utility niche in which it was not garbage. No, one singular first-level spell slot does not replace those losses.
Problem 3, you not knowing how to play the class is not the same as having no options. they have far more options than any martial and somehow martials survive.
Yeah, the game sure does allow for more competent teammates to pick up an individually weak character's slack. When the warlock blows its load in the first fight, because casting one singular leveled spell constitutes 'blowing its load', the rest of the party has to deal with the warlock basically being a heavy crossbow fighter, but with half the HP, piss-poor AC, and no ability to defend itself in melee combat without very specific jank. Is Eldritch Bonk really good? Sure - but people are sick of it being expected to carry the entire damn class based solely and exclusively on the damage from Eldritch Bonk + Agonizing Doink.
4th good, there should be less. Multi classing is a pox on the system.
Multiclassing is perfectly fine. Wizards failing to take multiclassing into account when designing classes is less fine. The warlock being a Charisma class when it damn well shouldn't be is NOT fine, and is basically the only reason warlock dips are ever considered a problem. Nobody would give a shit if wizards were taking a level or three of warlock - after all, they've gotta find some weird shit sometimes in all those dusty tomes they keep digging through, who's to say they're not willing to make a deal or two to expand their capabilities beyond what their learning grants them? But because warlocks and ******* paladins share a spellcasting ability, you get the whole Sad Dingdong CHA-based swordsman.
The only thing they have to do to break that combo and bring balance back to the Force is make warlocks a ******* Intelligence class. That's all they have to do. Problem: Solved.
5th, that's a you problem. I have and many warlocks have plenty of utility. Not being a wizard is not the same as not having utility.
Uh huh sure yep. Being able to cast one spell one time once per day suuuuure is a whole lotta utility. Man, it's really just such a shame that people keep expecting this MAGE CLASS to be able to USE MAGIC. What a totally ridiculous idea, who would ever be so dense as to figure a mage should cast spells?! Preposterous! Why, warlocks have plenty of utility - they have the same four skill proficiencies every class gets! That's plenty of utility! Who could ever reasonably ask for more?
Dumping the at-wills for rituals was several varieties of dumb. Now an option with teeth would have been giving the at-will invocations a once per day use of a similar spell starting at certain levels. At-will detect magic? Give them Identify once per day at level 5. Comprehend languages? Tongues at level 7. Speak with animals? Charm monster level 10.
Problem 3, you not knowing how to play the class is not the same as having no options. they have far more options than any martial and somehow martials survive.
While I take your point, I'll just point out this tone seems unnecessarily antagonistic to me.
Problem 3, you not knowing how to play the class is not the same as having no options. they have far more options than any martial and somehow martials survive.
While I take your point, I'll just point out this tone seems unnecessarily antagonistic to me.
That was not the intent, its just pointing out that they seem to be ignoring they can have an invisible familiar for scouting, they have a high charisma and access to social skills,. potentially some level of rituals beyond the normal caster, useful spells at will, a cantrip that is like a fighters long bow in power but hat can add battlefield control effects, leveled spells for combat. Whether its social, exploration or combat the warlock has things to do. There isn't a single area they cant contribute a solid amount in. Not many classes can say that.
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It's curious that you mention Armor of Agathys because one of the problems with Pact Magic is precisely that. Of the entire list of spells available to the warlock, due to the uniqueness of the warlock's magic system, only a handful are truly viable. Armor of agathys for example.
Indeed, and with the half caster system we were relegated to doing exactly what during combat with the increased number of spell slots? Cast shield more often?
For example, yes. That's for the bladelock.
But you will also cast other low level spells more often such as Absorb Elements, Chromatic Orb, Magic Missile, Misty Step (solved with the new Archfey), Flaming Sphere, Mirror Image, Web, etc... (Taking into account the open lists of spells. With the closed lists by classes, we would have to see).
But the most interesting thing is that outside of combat you have many options too.
It's really only bad if you never get short rests. And that's the DM's fault, take it up with him. The DM should be cognizant of short rests necessity. They're in the game for a reason, and plenty enough classes and subclasses have abilities that recharge on a short rest. If your DM isn't giving you enough, he's screwing you over the same as if every encounter was 5+ CRs above your abilities. This UA already gave you an extra casting per day, if your DM was a good DM, you'd get enough short rests to deal, as well as a rod of the pact master (fighters get +1 swords, don't they?). That's another spell slot per day. If your DM is not routinely screwing you over, that's plenty if you know how to play the class.
TBH Warlock isn't even bad without any short rests, they are comparable in power to a fighter that never gets short rests so I don't see the issue. Warlocks aren't intended to be casting levelled spells every round, or even every combat.
I think you really don't understand the problem.
If you can do the short rests you want, the warlock is broken. If you don't do short rests, or do them only when the story calls for it (which should be normal. There's little point in sitting next to a room full of monsters to rest), the warlock has virtually no magic.
In any case, warlock magic with pact magic depends on something circumstantial.
That's the first problem.
The second problem is that all spell slots are at same level. Therefore, only a few spells are useful (those that scale, or those that are good enough on their own like Shadow of Moil or Sickening Radiance).
The third problem is that you have almost no options. It is a class with a flat and boring gameplay. I've played a lot of warlocks because I like the flavor, but in combat they're boring. Eldritch Blast spam, and a spell here and there.
The fourth problem is that the uniqueness of his magic system means that there are very few viable combinations.
And the fifth problem is that you have no utility magic. Many utility magic spells are level 1 or 2, but you're not going to waste one of your precious spell slots on that.
Is a bad dessing.
This is a pretty fair summary of the cons. I'd love to cast shield as a level 5 Hexblade (if that still exists :) ) but casting a level 1 reaction spell instead of a level 3 scaled up or powerful AOE feels very punishing.
To be honest, I think that with the changes to Pact of the Blade are good for Hexblade. Now instead of it being just "Pact of the Blade, the subclass" it can branch out into it's own identity. Imagine if it was changed into a subclass about Cursed items instead! You could play a character that found a cursed tome and that's how they got there warlock powers!
I was real upset about that honestly. Agonizing Blast REALLY needs to scale with Warlock level instead of just Cantrip progression. I will say I'm happy to see that they've at least tried to let other cantrips benefit. An idea I had to fix this is to just have it give a d6 to cantrip damage. Then at 5th, 11th, and 17th levels you add an additional d6. It's a very slight nerf at high levels, but it's FAR from breaking.
I also think that Polearm is just the problem. Maybe it shouldn't qualify for Great Weapon Fighting?
There has to be SOME compromise between constantly needing a short rest and being a long rest caster. And magic cunning ain't it. It's probably the worse way they could have implemented it. It's honestly like they are terrified of Warlocks potentially casting 3 leveled spells in a combat. Which is wild when you consider that Sorcerers can cast AT LEAST 5 of their highest level spells in a combat starting at level 3.
Implying Fighters without short rests aren't bad? I also think most people want to cast a level spell every combat. Ergo the consistent feedback of wanting to cast more spells.
Do you whine when your Battle Master is out of dice? He still has a weapon, right? There you go.
While I am very upset that the stop-gap measure of “Magical Cunning” was implemented (it should seriously be set as like half PB times per day or twice per long rest or something to get any oomph), I’ll just have to fondly remember that the day we had an occultist class (the revised warlock). I’ll make do with loading up on things like Rune Shaper, Shadow/Fey Touched etc through the Lessons invocation. It’s a weird band-aid, but hey, ya’ll said we could crib feats with impunity so let the cheese happen.
But in all seriousness…the improved familiar options really need something better than the list we got which obnoxiously favors Imps. Also, are we using the 2014 Find Familiar or the one that was released several months ago?
Those are people who want their cake and to eat it too, though. If you want to cast a spell every combat play a wizard or a sorcerer. Warlock is designed around spamming "I attack" with their weapon or "I cast EB" and using their Pact Magic only when needed, it's basically like their version of Action Surge. A fighter without short rests isn't bad, I mean most optimizers don't even factor in short rests and fighter is fine.
I don't understand the poll. Is 1 or 5 the best?
Regardless, I preferred the UA5 Warlock. Making them a half-caster just plays better with multiclassing other casters. I do miss the flexible spellcasting mod based on Pact, which I honestly thought was maybe too strong as Warlocks were already one of the most multiclassable classes in the game ... but I loved it all the same.
With how hard they're rolling back the previous changes (not just for Warlocks) it seems they're stuck on OneD&D being backwards compatible, but I personally have zero problems with both iterations (2014 and UA5) existing in the game at the same time based on the DM.
You manufacturing a problem isn't the same as there being one.
problem one, no more than any other rest based system including long rests. In fact it should always be easier to get a short rest than a long one so it is less circumstantial. And the warlock never ends up being broken as long as they don't have weird spells like animate dead which need a nerf anyways.
problem 2, Take pact of the tome and a feat or two, problem mostly solved.
Problem 3, you not knowing how to play the class is not the same as having no options. they have far more options than any martial and somehow martials survive.
4th good, there should be less. Multi classing is a pox on the system.
5th, that's a you problem. I have and many warlocks have plenty of utility. Not being a wizard is not the same as not having utility.
So I want to note a big problem with the playtest 5 lock vs this lock was the invocations. The Playtest 5 lock had plenty of low level slots to use for their utility spells and minor magical tricks and this is why the most valuable invocations on it were all ones that gave a higher level spell slot giving them their "bombs" or something that adjusted EB or gave some other big combat thing. There were way too many at will casting invocations that just weren't worth it anymore on that chassy. This is the reverse, your bombs are on your spell casting but your utility is largely going to come from your known spells likely including ritual spells and your invocations. The invocations just fit a lot better here.
Another factor is being back to the warlock spell list. If there wasn't a complaint among wizards and sorcs that people felt they were stepping on each others toes in UA5 I am almost certain we would be seeing a different warlock right now. All because you CAN'T give them a bunch of high level casts that recharge on a short rest with the entire wizard list.
I do believe playtest 5 COULD have worked, but the invocations would have needed a lot of work.
In truth just thinking of all the times I wanted a short rest and couldn't get one being able to get 1 spell back would definitely have alleviated that pain point, every, single, time. Because every time it was one more fight and then we took a short rest anyway. So I only had to deal with one inconvenient fight, now that could have been BECAUSE I didn't have a spell to cast and everyone suffered more because of it though so it may be now I get that spell back, use it in the fight and they STILL don't want to short rest because I saved all their bacons and they think we are fine.
While eating breakfast, the basic outline of an idea came to me. Let's see if I can make it legible :)
Imagine this warlock spell-slot model:
Warlocks get the same progression as full casters, but they only get 1 spell-slot per spell level. On a short rest, they receive an Arcane Recovery-style effect, restoring half their warlock level worth of spell-slots (rounded up), to a maximum of one per spell level, and a maximum of a 5th level slot.
This means, for instance, that a 5th-level warlock normally has a 1st-, a 2nd-, and a 3rd-level spell slot; and on short rest recovers 3 spell-levels worth of slots. This warlock then chooses how to allocate these slots. Maybe they elect to recover their 3rd-level spell slot, or instead take their 1st and their 2nd?
In this model, warlocks wouldn't get the mystic arcanum feature, but it would essentially be the same. Instead they get actual high-level spell slots that they could also use to upcast with, if they so desire. And these 6th to 9th level slots can't be recharged during a short rest.
All in all, this would allow the warlock to have more spells per encounters, able to spend low-level slots on situational low-level spells without cutting off their ability to use more powerful magic later, and the ability to recover a significant portion of these slots (but not all of them) on a short rest. Main difference is that the warlock wouldn't be able to use up four 5th-level slots every short rest. The trade-off is sustain and versatility at lower levels at the cost of nova power at very high levels.
Compared with the UA7 warlock, and assuming 2 short rests per adventuring day and assuming that this proposed warlock variant will attempt to recover their highest spell-slots whenever possible.
UA7 Warlock 5: (2 slots total) 2 3rd
Total of 6 slots per LR.
Variant Warlock 5: (3 slots total) 1 1st through 3rd
Recover 3rd-level slot on each SR. Total of 5 slots per LR.
UA7 Warlock 11: (3 slots total) 3 5th
Total of 9 slots per LR plus 1 (Mystic Arcanum 6th).
Variant Warlock 11: (6 slots total) 1 1st through 6th
Recover 1st and 5th-level slot on each SR. Total of 10 slots per LR.
UA7 Warlock 17: (4 slots total) 4 5th
Total of 12 slots per LR plus 4 (Mystic Arcanum 6th through 9th)
Variant Warlock 17: (9 slots total) 1 st through 9th
Recover 4th and 5th-level slot on each SR. Total of 13 slots per LR.
...
Or maybe I should go back to eating my breakfast. Hmms.
Thanks for taking the time to read my rambles! :D
You ignoring a problem isn't the same as there not being one.
Tell me you've never played a serious campaign of D&D without telling me you've never played a serious campaign of D&D.
Lawl. One singular first-level spell slot is not a solution to the warlock's inability to utilize utility magic. Especially since they eliminated one of the most useful utility Invocations in Eldritch Sight. There were serious advantages to being able to have Detect Magic going right away, at will, rather than waiting ten agonizing minutes for a ritual cast - especiall since now you have to waste a known spell on it. They eliminated Eldritch Sight, Beast Speech, Eyes of the Runekeeper...a bunch of the coolest flavor Invocations that allowed the warlock some narrow utility niche in which it was not garbage. No, one singular first-level spell slot does not replace those losses.
Yeah, the game sure does allow for more competent teammates to pick up an individually weak character's slack. When the warlock blows its load in the first fight, because casting one singular leveled spell constitutes 'blowing its load', the rest of the party has to deal with the warlock basically being a heavy crossbow fighter, but with half the HP, piss-poor AC, and no ability to defend itself in melee combat without very specific jank. Is Eldritch Bonk really good? Sure - but people are sick of it being expected to carry the entire damn class based solely and exclusively on the damage from Eldritch Bonk + Agonizing Doink.
Multiclassing is perfectly fine. Wizards failing to take multiclassing into account when designing classes is less fine. The warlock being a Charisma class when it damn well shouldn't be is NOT fine, and is basically the only reason warlock dips are ever considered a problem. Nobody would give a shit if wizards were taking a level or three of warlock - after all, they've gotta find some weird shit sometimes in all those dusty tomes they keep digging through, who's to say they're not willing to make a deal or two to expand their capabilities beyond what their learning grants them? But because warlocks and ******* paladins share a spellcasting ability, you get the whole Sad Dingdong CHA-based swordsman.
The only thing they have to do to break that combo and bring balance back to the Force is make warlocks a ******* Intelligence class. That's all they have to do. Problem: Solved.
Uh huh sure yep. Being able to cast one spell one time once per day suuuuure is a whole lotta utility. Man, it's really just such a shame that people keep expecting this MAGE CLASS to be able to USE MAGIC. What a totally ridiculous idea, who would ever be so dense as to figure a mage should cast spells?! Preposterous! Why, warlocks have plenty of utility - they have the same four skill proficiencies every class gets! That's plenty of utility! Who could ever reasonably ask for more?
Please do not contact or message me.
Dumping the at-wills for rituals was several varieties of dumb. Now an option with teeth would have been giving the at-will invocations a once per day use of a similar spell starting at certain levels. At-will detect magic? Give them Identify once per day at level 5. Comprehend languages? Tongues at level 7. Speak with animals? Charm monster level 10.
Warlock is weird? Let’s get weird with it.
While I take your point, I'll just point out this tone seems unnecessarily antagonistic to me.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Okay, your descriptions of the campaigns you are in are so absurd no one can take them seriously.
It was an odd request, but i am a giver.
That was not the intent, its just pointing out that they seem to be ignoring they can have an invisible familiar for scouting, they have a high charisma and access to social skills,. potentially some level of rituals beyond the normal caster, useful spells at will, a cantrip that is like a fighters long bow in power but hat can add battlefield control effects, leveled spells for combat. Whether its social, exploration or combat the warlock has things to do. There isn't a single area they cant contribute a solid amount in. Not many classes can say that.