There's nothing that bothers me, really. It's more that it's not my cup of tea: a pact with an Archfey doesn't spark my imagination like a pact with a Devil or a Lovecraftian entity.
You were just trying to make it back to your farmstead that night. One of your wagon wheels breaking set you back hours, and by the time you were back on the road, it was so dark that your lantern barely let you see ahead of the horse. Your eyes were growing heavier, and it was hard to stay awake. That's when you heard them. The music coming from the old forest that your grandmother warned you about. The faint laughter and sounds of revelry. Light and dancing shadows coming through between the trees. You couldn't contain your curiosity, even in your exhausted state, and left your wagon to just take a small peek. Just a peek.
From your hiding place in the bushes you saw the fair folk celebrating their lady, cavorting around a bonfire and feasting. You hadn't eaten since noon, and the faint complaining of your stomach caused the entire gathering to pause and look your way.
"Ah, a visitor! How unexpected!" Calls the lady from her ivy throne. "Come! Eat. Drink. Be merry!"
And you did, forgetting the one rule your grandmother had taught you about the fair folk. If you accept their hospitality, you now belong to them.
There's nothing that bothers me, really. It's more that it's not my cup of tea: a pact with an Archfey doesn't spark my imagination like a pact with a Devil or a Lovecraftian entity.
You were just trying to make it back to your farmstead that night. One of your wagon wheels breaking set you back hours, and by the time you were back on the road, it was so dark that your lantern barely let you see ahead of the horse. Your eyes were growing heavier, and it was hard to stay awake. That's when you heard them. The music coming from the old forest that your grandmother warned you about. The faint laughter and sounds of revelry. Light and dancing shadows coming through between the trees. You couldn't contain your curiosity, even in your exhausted state, and left your wagon to just take a small peek. Just a peek.
From your hiding place in the bushes you saw the fair folk celebrating their lady, cavorting around a bonfire and feasting. You hadn't eaten since noon, and the faint complaining of your stomach caused the entire gathering to pause and look your way.
"Ah, a visitor! How unexpected!" Calls the lady from her ivy throne. "Come! Eat. Drink. Be merry!"
And you did, forgetting the one rule your grandmother had taught you about the fair folk. If you accept their hospitality, you now belong to them.
There's nothing that bothers me, really. It's more that it's not my cup of tea: a pact with an Archfey doesn't spark my imagination like a pact with a Devil or a Lovecraftian entity.
You were just trying to make it back to your farmstead that night. One of your wagon wheels breaking set you back hours, and by the time you were back on the road, it was so dark that your lantern barely let you see ahead of the horse. Your eyes were growing heavier, and it was hard to stay awake. That's when you heard them. The music coming from the old forest that your grandmother warned you about. The faint laughter and sounds of revelry. Light and dancing shadows coming through between the trees. You couldn't contain your curiosity, even in your exhausted state, and left your wagon to just take a small peek. Just a peek.
From your hiding place in the bushes you saw the fair folk celebrating their lady, cavorting around a bonfire and feasting. You hadn't eaten since noon, and the faint complaining of your stomach caused the entire gathering to pause and look your way.
"Ah, a visitor! How unexpected!" Calls the lady from her ivy throne. "Come! Eat. Drink. Be merry!"
And you did, forgetting the one rule your grandmother had taught you about the fair folk. If you accept their hospitality, you now belong to them.
It is good... but none of that is misty step, and all of it is illusion and charm. (Edit: enchantment instead of charm, though charm is part of that)
Can't we just handwave that as the fae and fae-adjacent warlocks are just not entirely there, one foot in Arcadia and one on the material, that they're just one (misty) step away from showing up wherever they want? :)
Can't we just handwave that as the fae and fae-adjacent warlocks are just not entirely there, one foot in Arcadia and one on the material, that they're just one (misty) step away from showing up wherever they want? :)
I mean you CAN, but for people like myself and some others, we're pretty upset the majority of the flavor that we want from archfey is gone and instead are given a half a**Ed explanation for their powers. Why do you need teleporty guy to be fey and not their own subclass?
I mean you CAN, but for people like myself and some others, we're pretty upset the majority of the flavor that we want from archfey is gone and instead are given a half a**Ed explanation for their powers. Why do you need teleporty guy to be fey and not their own subclass?
Do you mind if I ask how the Archfey flavour was changed for you? The blurby bit is still mostly the same, right? And several of the subclass features are reminiscent of the old, only expanded upon. The big changes that I can see is that Fey Presence was replaced with Steps of the Fey, and Dark Delirium made way for Betwitching Magic.
Do you feel that most if not all of the effects of Fey Presence can be regained by the Enthrall spell, available at the same level the warlock would've gained that trait? If you want to keep that flavour of the class, that is? And Dark Delirium (a single-target ability that charms or fears, making the target believe they're lost in a dark realm) could maaaybe be emulated with Hold Monster or Dominate Person? I know, it's not a perfect match, but the Venn diagram of application overlaps a bit, right? :)
So, and this is just my point of view, a lot of what is ostensibly lost can be regained with a bit of work. Or, do you feel differently?
I mean you CAN, but for people like myself and some others, we're pretty upset the majority of the flavor that we want from archfey is gone and instead are given a half a**Ed explanation for their powers. Why do you need teleporty guy to be fey and not their own subclass?
Do you mind if I ask how the Archfey flavour was changed for you? The blurby bit is still mostly the same, right? And several of the subclass features are reminiscent of the old, only expanded upon. The big changes that I can see is that Fey Presence was replaced with Steps of the Fey, and Dark Delirium made way for Betwitching Magic.
Do you feel that most if not all of the effects of Fey Presence can be regained by the Enthrall spell, available at the same level the warlock would've gained that trait? If you want to keep that flavour of the class, that is? And Dark Delirium (a single-target ability that charms or fears, making the target believe they're lost in a dark realm) could maaaybe be emulated with Hold Monster or Dominate Person? I know, it's not a perfect match, but the Venn diagram of application overlaps a bit, right? :)
So, and this is just my point of view, a lot of what is ostensibly lost can be regained with a bit of work. Or, do you feel differently?
It's a shoddy work around because you're talking about spells which are an INSANELY limited resource for the warlock having to be expended for at will features.
Plus, it's kind of an illustration as to why I'm happy the subclass spells are just given now instead of an extra choice. When they were an extra choice and not a feature, there were just too many necessary things to get that you didn't choose them. So it's not JUST that I need to use a spell slot to cast enthrall, but I also have to sacrifice another spell choice that might be ostensibly better to learn the enthrall spell.
It's like how the invocations got rid of detect magic as an at will. It now forces a worse choice which now means that spell will rarely if ever be used. You may as well just remove it from the warlock spell list and toss in another blade-lock buff. Which is what they seem to be pushing for, and that means rather than giving options you're killing a class.
I mean you CAN, but for people like myself and some others, we're pretty upset the majority of the flavor that we want from archfey is gone and instead are given a half a**Ed explanation for their powers. Why do you need teleporty guy to be fey and not their own subclass?
Do you mind if I ask how the Archfey flavour was changed for you? The blurby bit is still mostly the same, right? And several of the subclass features are reminiscent of the old, only expanded upon. The big changes that I can see is that Fey Presence was replaced with Steps of the Fey, and Dark Delirium made way for Betwitching Magic.
Do you feel that most if not all of the effects of Fey Presence can be regained by the Enthrall spell, available at the same level the warlock would've gained that trait? If you want to keep that flavour of the class, that is? And Dark Delirium (a single-target ability that charms or fears, making the target believe they're lost in a dark realm) could maaaybe be emulated with Hold Monster or Dominate Person? I know, it's not a perfect match, but the Venn diagram of application overlaps a bit, right? :)
So, and this is just my point of view, a lot of what is ostensibly lost can be regained with a bit of work. Or, do you feel differently?
I think the biggest issue is it is TOO much on misty step. if it was just fey presence for fey step I think people would feel different. Misty step HAS been linked and associated with fey creatures for quite a while. It is just Dropping someone in an illusory realm and charming them is really missed. The way DD was worded the illusory realm happened regardless it just was a save for the charm or fear portion. I used it almost like a short duration waking dream spell.
As a reminder for the people saying detect magic and speak with animals are worthless, warlock can cast rituals in this UA and the invocations would be next to worthless.
yeah, I gotta say I really don't like them taking away the at will invocations and replacing them with spells...
I mean the warlock only has 2 spell slots for the 1st half of their careers, I'm not wasting them on detect magic or speak with animals, even if I did that's just one use vs. unlimited when they were at will invocations
I think the warlock and monk are giving them fits on how to improve without messing them up further.
You remember they also granted ritual casting to everyone, so you can take those and cast them as a ritual and not use a slot.
I think a big thing people are missing here is that at every level you have 1 to 2 extra spell choices because you get your patron spells free so you aren't using your old selections on those spells anymore, and people were probably taking 1 or 2 of those before anyway.
I think the biggest issue is it is TOO much on misty step. if it was just fey presence for fey step I think people would feel different. Misty step HAS been linked and associated with fey creatures for quite a while. It is just Dropping someone in an illusory realm and charming them is really missed. The way DD was worded the illusory realm happened regardless it just was a save for the charm or fear portion. I used it almost like a short duration waking dream spell.
Yeah, I sort of miss that as an actual spell. A soft-control personal nightmare phantasm thing going on. Sure, there are Phantasmal Force, but it doesn't really scratch that itch. What mid-level spells do we have that could induce a stupor like that? Confusion? Kinda, but not really.
I agree that Dark Delirium have a very particular feel to it that's hard to emulate with the spells we have right now. Mental Prison comes close, but it's all about damage and it is 6th level, too. Dark Delirium is practically the reversed form of True Seeing.
... eh, details :)
Returning to the Archfey misty step thing, though, despite whatever you may feel about that spell in particular - how do you feel about subclasses with a more clearly defined common thread throughout their design? Features that are interlinked and build upon one another?
Or, do you feel it is better that each feature stands completely on its own, making the subclass more of a thematic grab-bag sort of deal?
As a reminder for the people saying detect magic and speak with animals are worthless, warlock can cast rituals in this UA and the invocations would be next to worthless.
I think a big thing people are missing here is that at every level you have 1 to 2 extra spell choices because you get your patron spells free so you aren't using your old selections on those spells anymore, and people were probably taking 1 or 2 of those before anyway.
Now, if only rituals didn't take 10 minutes to perform, that would be just awesomecakes. That squirrel you're trying to interview about their input on a ballad you just sang, they're going to scurry faster than you can ritual.
Hmm. Maybe if rituals instead took 1 minute per spell level to perform? Ooor rituals, cast as a normal action, never consumed spell-slots if used outside of initiative? Like the old Take 10 mechanic of "you succeed at a baseline level if you're not under undue stress"?
While I can understand other folks disappointments on the changes to the Archfey patron subclass, personally I was never really tempted to play the old version, but am very intrigued by the new, and would certainly be interested in it. I also would be quite interested in playing a GOOlock now, as the only reason why I didn't play one up to now is that the old version's features were weak and not sufficiently interesting. Celestial Warlock has never really been my cup of tea then or now.
As a reminder for the people saying detect magic and speak with animals are worthless, warlock can cast rituals in this UA and the invocations would be next to worthless.
A ritual casts and at will aren't the same. I can cast stuff at will that means it's an awkward on. I can "at will" detect magic as I go from room to room in a dungeon without having to do the ritual and take the rest/time to cast. I could "at will" speak with animals and literally talk to every animal I meet because it's always on.
As for what I'd do differently? I'd keep the fey presence. It's another flavorful always on ability, and the distance is so small that it isn't a broken feature (if it was 20-40 feet it would be absurdly overused). Misty step around 6-ish is good. Later on not sure, but to be honest, I wasn't upset with the old version.
As for the class, I would also allow for pact of the chain to have a summon based on patron. Aberration for old one, celestial for celestial, and so on. It would be an invocation available around level 14 and require the chain pact as pre-req's.
I'd also allow for 2 extra slots for the class, and at certain levels and extra spells slot as well for pact of the tome as it leans into the full caster.
Pact of the blade would receive a few revisions so that some.of the pre-req's would push for it to stand more on its own than be abused for multiclass dips (not sure what they would be)
I think a few more slots would do a lot to give the warlock some breathing room and for the time and the chain the later invocations would give a fair incentive while encouraging each pact to.have it's own flavor as well without being totally broken.
I think the biggest issue is it is TOO much on misty step. if it was just fey presence for fey step I think people would feel different. Misty step HAS been linked and associated with fey creatures for quite a while. It is just Dropping someone in an illusory realm and charming them is really missed. The way DD was worded the illusory realm happened regardless it just was a save for the charm or fear portion. I used it almost like a short duration waking dream spell.
Yeah, I sort of miss that as an actual spell. A soft-control personal nightmare phantasm thing going on. Sure, there are Phantasmal Force, but it doesn't really scratch that itch. What mid-level spells do we have that could induce a stupor like that? Confusion? Kinda, but not really.
I agree that Dark Delirium have a very particular feel to it that's hard to emulate with the spells we have right now. Mental Prison comes close, but it's all about damage and it is 6th level, too. Dark Delirium is practically the reversed form of True Seeing.
... eh, details :)
Returning to the Archfey misty step thing, though, despite whatever you may feel about that spell in particular - how do you feel about subclasses with a more clearly defined common thread throughout their design? Features that are interlinked and build upon one another?
Or, do you feel it is better that each feature stands completely on its own, making the subclass more of a thematic grab-bag sort of deal?
I think it takes a balance of the two is fine. Good individual features are fine, things that work on a THEME is good in general. Beguiling defense has nothing to do with teleportation, for example. But your first 2 being based on misty step and last 2 being different I think would be fine. I just think the 14th level goes to far. Double cast isn't a bad idea it just feels too much to me and even feels weak for a 14th level feature.
For other subclasses GOO is good as we see here, very well focused to me. Fiend seems the big loser in this one but only because of the save on hurl through hell and what i consider not great spell list.
Going TOO far and it becomes less about synergy and more about being one note.
I think the biggest issue is it is TOO much on misty step. if it was just fey presence for fey step I think people would feel different. Misty step HAS been linked and associated with fey creatures for quite a while. It is just Dropping someone in an illusory realm and charming them is really missed. The way DD was worded the illusory realm happened regardless it just was a save for the charm or fear portion. I used it almost like a short duration waking dream spell.
Yeah, I sort of miss that as an actual spell. A soft-control personal nightmare phantasm thing going on. Sure, there are Phantasmal Force, but it doesn't really scratch that itch. What mid-level spells do we have that could induce a stupor like that? Confusion? Kinda, but not really.
I agree that Dark Delirium have a very particular feel to it that's hard to emulate with the spells we have right now. Mental Prison comes close, but it's all about damage and it is 6th level, too. Dark Delirium is practically the reversed form of True Seeing.
... eh, details :)
Returning to the Archfey misty step thing, though, despite whatever you may feel about that spell in particular - how do you feel about subclasses with a more clearly defined common thread throughout their design? Features that are interlinked and build upon one another?
Or, do you feel it is better that each feature stands completely on its own, making the subclass more of a thematic grab-bag sort of deal?
I think it takes a balance of the two is fine. Good individual features are fine, things that work on a THEME is good in general. Beguiling defense has nothing to do with teleportation, for example. But your first 2 being based on misty step and last 2 being different I think would be fine. I just think the 14th level goes to far. Double cast isn't a bad idea it just feels too much to me and even feels weak for a 14th level feature.
For other subclasses GOO is good as we see here, very well focused to me. Fiend seems the big loser in this one but only because of the save on hurl through hell and what i consider not great spell list.
Going TOO far and it becomes less about synergy and more about being one note.
First of all, not giving up my previous statements about the new archfey should be a new subclass, focus on misty step, be it's own thing, and get the old archfey back.
Ok?
Ok.
I think another approach is to be a bit more open ended while trying to hold a theme. One of the tings I appreciate about my players is that one of them is currently a wizard and comes up with some pretty damned unique ways to use a handful of utility cantrips to do damage in unique ways. What's nice about it is that although it may not be intended purpose, there's enough flexibility within them to suit a number of purposes.
In a way, you want to stay thematically on point, but also leave the classes open enough for different interpretations that you can get those multiple builds.
The Old One seems to be more of the winner amongst these as they all carry theme, the uses of many of them work across different pacts, and can assist in a number of builds. The traits are all themed around psychic abilities, and each one has its uses. Out thegate you get telepathic communication an get to drop verbal and somatic components. That's INSTANTLY getting Sorcerer's 'subtle spell" ability for all spells for free (as long as it's enchantment or illusion, which arguably outside of an assassination attempt are the spells you don't want anyone to know you're casting). . The 6th level is forcing disadvantage on others and advantage for you. Advantage/disadvantage is highly underrated. In many cases it's better than extra dice or extra points on a single roll. 10th doubles down with hex to do that to saving throws and not just attacks.14th gives you summon aberration which is the best of the 14th level features.
The celestial and fiend still have some amazing spells given throughout its levels Nobody's going to shy away from a greater restoration or a revivify. Fiend gets the iconic fireball as well as geas (I want that so bad... It's such a warlock's patron sort of spell... XD )and insect plague.
The celestial has hit dice that I'm not a fan of dice as resources, but it leans into healing. The 6th level goes for radiant and fire damage which isn't as grat as psychic, but ok... 10th leans in with more hitpoints, this time they're temporary and for you and your party. 14th is bonkers. You don't die, but insta-revive to half life and do damage to every enemy nearby that wronged you. It's boring, but hitpoints are a resource NOBODY wants to be without, and that's why healers exist.
Fiend's level three gives you the same as the celestial's level 14 or the orc's natural feat but it's WAY weaker than the celestial (obviously) and slightly more powerful than the orc's natural ability.Level 6 is extra dice to a roll, and we discuss in the great old one, that it's not as great as advantage/disadvantage, but it has more ersatility than the old one's pact because doesn't apply to (just) combat. 10 kinda sucks with just getting a damage resistance. Bleh. Little more than useless really because you kinda have to know what you're going to be fighting and if you guess wrong (which is likely), you're SOL.Hurl through hell got a nerf but it's not bad. Not as awesome as celestial's level 14 but it's not useless.
The archfey's focus is on misty step, and it's one dimensional because that's where the focus all is.
Beguiling defenses... Half the player options (the elves, the fairie, the underdark creatures, probably the yuan-ti, etc) have charm resistance or immunity out the gate, and I don't think it's a very common type of magic granted to monsters, which prefer to do damage than cast conditions (outside of poison) than anything else. I mean maybe it's more common than being petrified but still. The psychic damage it gives is... Well, it's confusing to understand what psychic damage it's dealing (it's not a die roll, it's a reaction to being hit, the creature makes a wisdom save???? (why wisdom???) and why psychic???)
And level 14 is free misty step if you cast enchantment or illusion spell... Which your level 3 is casting misty step for free equal to your charisma, so really it's just more casting of misty step.
You could just have a "misty step" invocation and it would have 75% of the class features in a single go and probably even better for the player. (Level 6's misty step plus invisibility is kinda broken but if you could misty step at will rather than cast, you could just cast invisibility and it would be equivalent as it is with that 14th level).
The changes from the archfey other than the lack of fey presence also have that the 6th level allows you to cast invisibility with your misty step, and not do misty step/invisibility in one goe and only as a response to taking damage.
The beguiling defense has the strange damage thing as an extra over just resistance to charm which as I said was pointless, and the break from dark delerium...
Honestly, if anything from the old bothers me it's that dark delerium ends with the creature taking damage. I recognize that it may be a bit broken to keep a monster in an illusion for 10 rounds, but it could be that the creature has to make another wisdom save on its turn if it took damage that round and I'd be peachy keen with it. It IS a level 14 spell, and anything less is mechanically less than charm or sleep.
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
For beguiling defense before it also gave charm immunity and allowed you to use your reaction to turn a charm against an enemy. The problem is, of course, that not only was it rare for a DM to use a charm effect, but it was even rarer that they would target a caster with the charm effect and even rarer for some who know you have charm immunity, and even if they DID the creatures that are likely to try to charm the party are typically immune to charms themselves. So effectively it basically never did anything except give charm immunity. Now it does that plus the reaction when you take damage. The reaction does 2 things when you take damage, the first you take half damage, the second is the attacker has to make a wisdom saving throw or take the same damage you just did. What is happening here from a thematic and narrative stand point is the second half of the damage you took didn't go away, instead you are tricking your attacker into feeling your pain and taking the other half of the damage for you.
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
Edit: reserving room for later to discuss beguiling defense..... please stand by thank you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
You were just trying to make it back to your farmstead that night. One of your wagon wheels breaking set you back hours, and by the time you were back on the road, it was so dark that your lantern barely let you see ahead of the horse. Your eyes were growing heavier, and it was hard to stay awake. That's when you heard them. The music coming from the old forest that your grandmother warned you about. The faint laughter and sounds of revelry. Light and dancing shadows coming through between the trees. You couldn't contain your curiosity, even in your exhausted state, and left your wagon to just take a small peek. Just a peek.
From your hiding place in the bushes you saw the fair folk celebrating their lady, cavorting around a bonfire and feasting. You hadn't eaten since noon, and the faint complaining of your stomach caused the entire gathering to pause and look your way.
"Ah, a visitor! How unexpected!" Calls the lady from her ivy throne. "Come! Eat. Drink. Be merry!"
And you did, forgetting the one rule your grandmother had taught you about the fair folk. If you accept their hospitality, you now belong to them.
That's good, I like it.
Vegan. Punk. Metal. Queer. Comics. Videogames.
Warlock enthusiast.
It is good... but none of that is misty step, and all of it is illusion and charm. (Edit: enchantment instead of charm, though charm is part of that)
Can't we just handwave that as the fae and fae-adjacent warlocks are just not entirely there, one foot in Arcadia and one on the material, that they're just one (misty) step away from showing up wherever they want? :)
I mean you CAN, but for people like myself and some others, we're pretty upset the majority of the flavor that we want from archfey is gone and instead are given a half a**Ed explanation for their powers. Why do you need teleporty guy to be fey and not their own subclass?
Do you mind if I ask how the Archfey flavour was changed for you? The blurby bit is still mostly the same, right? And several of the subclass features are reminiscent of the old, only expanded upon. The big changes that I can see is that Fey Presence was replaced with Steps of the Fey, and Dark Delirium made way for Betwitching Magic.
Do you feel that most if not all of the effects of Fey Presence can be regained by the Enthrall spell, available at the same level the warlock would've gained that trait? If you want to keep that flavour of the class, that is? And Dark Delirium (a single-target ability that charms or fears, making the target believe they're lost in a dark realm) could maaaybe be emulated with Hold Monster or Dominate Person? I know, it's not a perfect match, but the Venn diagram of application overlaps a bit, right? :)
So, and this is just my point of view, a lot of what is ostensibly lost can be regained with a bit of work. Or, do you feel differently?
It's a shoddy work around because you're talking about spells which are an INSANELY limited resource for the warlock having to be expended for at will features.
Plus, it's kind of an illustration as to why I'm happy the subclass spells are just given now instead of an extra choice. When they were an extra choice and not a feature, there were just too many necessary things to get that you didn't choose them. So it's not JUST that I need to use a spell slot to cast enthrall, but I also have to sacrifice another spell choice that might be ostensibly better to learn the enthrall spell.
It's like how the invocations got rid of detect magic as an at will. It now forces a worse choice which now means that spell will rarely if ever be used. You may as well just remove it from the warlock spell list and toss in another blade-lock buff. Which is what they seem to be pushing for, and that means rather than giving options you're killing a class.
Okay-dokey :)
I can totally see that point of view (albeit with maybe not as much finality), and that's fair. How would you have done it differently?
I think the biggest issue is it is TOO much on misty step. if it was just fey presence for fey step I think people would feel different. Misty step HAS been linked and associated with fey creatures for quite a while. It is just Dropping someone in an illusory realm and charming them is really missed. The way DD was worded the illusory realm happened regardless it just was a save for the charm or fear portion. I used it almost like a short duration waking dream spell.
As a reminder for the people saying detect magic and speak with animals are worthless, warlock can cast rituals in this UA and the invocations would be next to worthless.
I can’t remember what’s supposed to go here.
You remember they also granted ritual casting to everyone, so you can take those and cast them as a ritual and not use a slot.
I think a big thing people are missing here is that at every level you have 1 to 2 extra spell choices because you get your patron spells free so you aren't using your old selections on those spells anymore, and people were probably taking 1 or 2 of those before anyway.
Yeah, I sort of miss that as an actual spell. A soft-control personal nightmare phantasm thing going on. Sure, there are Phantasmal Force, but it doesn't really scratch that itch. What mid-level spells do we have that could induce a stupor like that? Confusion? Kinda, but not really.
I agree that Dark Delirium have a very particular feel to it that's hard to emulate with the spells we have right now. Mental Prison comes close, but it's all about damage and it is 6th level, too. Dark Delirium is practically the reversed form of True Seeing.
... eh, details :)
Returning to the Archfey misty step thing, though, despite whatever you may feel about that spell in particular - how do you feel about subclasses with a more clearly defined common thread throughout their design? Features that are interlinked and build upon one another?
Or, do you feel it is better that each feature stands completely on its own, making the subclass more of a thematic grab-bag sort of deal?
Now, if only rituals didn't take 10 minutes to perform, that would be just awesomecakes. That squirrel you're trying to interview about their input on a ballad you just sang, they're going to scurry faster than you can ritual.
Hmm. Maybe if rituals instead took 1 minute per spell level to perform? Ooor rituals, cast as a normal action, never consumed spell-slots if used outside of initiative? Like the old Take 10 mechanic of "you succeed at a baseline level if you're not under undue stress"?
While I can understand other folks disappointments on the changes to the Archfey patron subclass, personally I was never really tempted to play the old version, but am very intrigued by the new, and would certainly be interested in it. I also would be quite interested in playing a GOOlock now, as the only reason why I didn't play one up to now is that the old version's features were weak and not sufficiently interesting. Celestial Warlock has never really been my cup of tea then or now.
A ritual casts and at will aren't the same. I can cast stuff at will that means it's an awkward on. I can "at will" detect magic as I go from room to room in a dungeon without having to do the ritual and take the rest/time to cast. I could "at will" speak with animals and literally talk to every animal I meet because it's always on.
As for what I'd do differently? I'd keep the fey presence. It's another flavorful always on ability, and the distance is so small that it isn't a broken feature (if it was 20-40 feet it would be absurdly overused). Misty step around 6-ish is good. Later on not sure, but to be honest, I wasn't upset with the old version.
As for the class, I would also allow for pact of the chain to have a summon based on patron. Aberration for old one, celestial for celestial, and so on. It would be an invocation available around level 14 and require the chain pact as pre-req's.
I'd also allow for 2 extra slots for the class, and at certain levels and extra spells slot as well for pact of the tome as it leans into the full caster.
Pact of the blade would receive a few revisions so that some.of the pre-req's would push for it to stand more on its own than be abused for multiclass dips (not sure what they would be)
I think a few more slots would do a lot to give the warlock some breathing room and for the time and the chain the later invocations would give a fair incentive while encouraging each pact to.have it's own flavor as well without being totally broken.
I think it takes a balance of the two is fine. Good individual features are fine, things that work on a THEME is good in general. Beguiling defense has nothing to do with teleportation, for example. But your first 2 being based on misty step and last 2 being different I think would be fine. I just think the 14th level goes to far. Double cast isn't a bad idea it just feels too much to me and even feels weak for a 14th level feature.
For other subclasses GOO is good as we see here, very well focused to me. Fiend seems the big loser in this one but only because of the save on hurl through hell and what i consider not great spell list.
Going TOO far and it becomes less about synergy and more about being one note.
First of all, not giving up my previous statements about the new archfey should be a new subclass, focus on misty step, be it's own thing, and get the old archfey back.
Ok?
Ok.
I think another approach is to be a bit more open ended while trying to hold a theme. One of the tings I appreciate about my players is that one of them is currently a wizard and comes up with some pretty damned unique ways to use a handful of utility cantrips to do damage in unique ways. What's nice about it is that although it may not be intended purpose, there's enough flexibility within them to suit a number of purposes.
In a way, you want to stay thematically on point, but also leave the classes open enough for different interpretations that you can get those multiple builds.
The Old One seems to be more of the winner amongst these as they all carry theme, the uses of many of them work across different pacts, and can assist in a number of builds. The traits are all themed around psychic abilities, and each one has its uses. Out thegate you get telepathic communication an get to drop verbal and somatic components. That's INSTANTLY getting Sorcerer's 'subtle spell" ability for all spells for free (as long as it's enchantment or illusion, which arguably outside of an assassination attempt are the spells you don't want anyone to know you're casting). . The 6th level is forcing disadvantage on others and advantage for you. Advantage/disadvantage is highly underrated. In many cases it's better than extra dice or extra points on a single roll. 10th doubles down with hex to do that to saving throws and not just attacks.14th gives you summon aberration which is the best of the 14th level features.
The celestial and fiend still have some amazing spells given throughout its levels Nobody's going to shy away from a greater restoration or a revivify. Fiend gets the iconic fireball as well as geas (I want that so bad... It's such a warlock's patron sort of spell... XD )and insect plague.
The celestial has hit dice that I'm not a fan of dice as resources, but it leans into healing. The 6th level goes for radiant and fire damage which isn't as grat as psychic, but ok... 10th leans in with more hitpoints, this time they're temporary and for you and your party. 14th is bonkers. You don't die, but insta-revive to half life and do damage to every enemy nearby that wronged you. It's boring, but hitpoints are a resource NOBODY wants to be without, and that's why healers exist.
Fiend's level three gives you the same as the celestial's level 14 or the orc's natural feat but it's WAY weaker than the celestial (obviously) and slightly more powerful than the orc's natural ability.Level 6 is extra dice to a roll, and we discuss in the great old one, that it's not as great as advantage/disadvantage, but it has more ersatility than the old one's pact because doesn't apply to (just) combat. 10 kinda sucks with just getting a damage resistance. Bleh. Little more than useless really because you kinda have to know what you're going to be fighting and if you guess wrong (which is likely), you're SOL.Hurl through hell got a nerf but it's not bad. Not as awesome as celestial's level 14 but it's not useless.
The archfey's focus is on misty step, and it's one dimensional because that's where the focus all is.
Beguiling defenses... Half the player options (the elves, the fairie, the underdark creatures, probably the yuan-ti, etc) have charm resistance or immunity out the gate, and I don't think it's a very common type of magic granted to monsters, which prefer to do damage than cast conditions (outside of poison) than anything else. I mean maybe it's more common than being petrified but still. The psychic damage it gives is... Well, it's confusing to understand what psychic damage it's dealing (it's not a die roll, it's a reaction to being hit, the creature makes a wisdom save???? (why wisdom???) and why psychic???)
And level 14 is free misty step if you cast enchantment or illusion spell... Which your level 3 is casting misty step for free equal to your charisma, so really it's just more casting of misty step.
You could just have a "misty step" invocation and it would have 75% of the class features in a single go and probably even better for the player. (Level 6's misty step plus invisibility is kinda broken but if you could misty step at will rather than cast, you could just cast invisibility and it would be equivalent as it is with that 14th level).
That's not exactly an ideal design.
The changes from the archfey other than the lack of fey presence also have that the 6th level allows you to cast invisibility with your misty step, and not do misty step/invisibility in one goe and only as a response to taking damage.
The beguiling defense has the strange damage thing as an extra over just resistance to charm which as I said was pointless, and the break from dark delerium...
Honestly, if anything from the old bothers me it's that dark delerium ends with the creature taking damage. I recognize that it may be a bit broken to keep a monster in an illusion for 10 rounds, but it could be that the creature has to make another wisdom save on its turn if it took damage that round and I'd be peachy keen with it. It IS a level 14 spell, and anything less is mechanically less than charm or sleep.
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
For beguiling defense before it also gave charm immunity and allowed you to use your reaction to turn a charm against an enemy. The problem is, of course, that not only was it rare for a DM to use a charm effect, but it was even rarer that they would target a caster with the charm effect and even rarer for some who know you have charm immunity, and even if they DID the creatures that are likely to try to charm the party are typically immune to charms themselves. So effectively it basically never did anything except give charm immunity. Now it does that plus the reaction when you take damage.
The reaction does 2 things when you take damage, the first you take half damage, the second is the attacker has to make a wisdom saving throw or take the same damage you just did. What is happening here from a thematic and narrative stand point is the second half of the damage you took didn't go away, instead you are tricking your attacker into feeling your pain and taking the other half of the damage for you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.