I think the biggest issue is it is TOO much on misty step. if it was just fey presence for fey step I think people would feel different. Misty step HAS been linked and associated with fey creatures for quite a while. It is just Dropping someone in an illusory realm and charming them is really missed. The way DD was worded the illusory realm happened regardless it just was a save for the charm or fear portion. I used it almost like a short duration waking dream spell.
Yeah, I sort of miss that as an actual spell. A soft-control personal nightmare phantasm thing going on. Sure, there are Phantasmal Force, but it doesn't really scratch that itch. What mid-level spells do we have that could induce a stupor like that? Confusion? Kinda, but not really.
I agree that Dark Delirium have a very particular feel to it that's hard to emulate with the spells we have right now. Mental Prison comes close, but it's all about damage and it is 6th level, too. Dark Delirium is practically the reversed form of True Seeing.
... eh, details :)
Returning to the Archfey misty step thing, though, despite whatever you may feel about that spell in particular - how do you feel about subclasses with a more clearly defined common thread throughout their design? Features that are interlinked and build upon one another?
Or, do you feel it is better that each feature stands completely on its own, making the subclass more of a thematic grab-bag sort of deal?
I think it takes a balance of the two is fine. Good individual features are fine, things that work on a THEME is good in general. Beguiling defense has nothing to do with teleportation, for example. But your first 2 being based on misty step and last 2 being different I think would be fine. I just think the 14th level goes to far. Double cast isn't a bad idea it just feels too much to me and even feels weak for a 14th level feature.
For other subclasses GOO is good as we see here, very well focused to me. Fiend seems the big loser in this one but only because of the save on hurl through hell and what i consider not great spell list.
Going TOO far and it becomes less about synergy and more about being one note.
I think the biggest issue is it is TOO much on misty step. if it was just fey presence for fey step I think people would feel different. Misty step HAS been linked and associated with fey creatures for quite a while. It is just Dropping someone in an illusory realm and charming them is really missed. The way DD was worded the illusory realm happened regardless it just was a save for the charm or fear portion. I used it almost like a short duration waking dream spell.
Yeah, I sort of miss that as an actual spell. A soft-control personal nightmare phantasm thing going on. Sure, there are Phantasmal Force, but it doesn't really scratch that itch. What mid-level spells do we have that could induce a stupor like that? Confusion? Kinda, but not really.
I agree that Dark Delirium have a very particular feel to it that's hard to emulate with the spells we have right now. Mental Prison comes close, but it's all about damage and it is 6th level, too. Dark Delirium is practically the reversed form of True Seeing.
... eh, details :)
Returning to the Archfey misty step thing, though, despite whatever you may feel about that spell in particular - how do you feel about subclasses with a more clearly defined common thread throughout their design? Features that are interlinked and build upon one another?
Or, do you feel it is better that each feature stands completely on its own, making the subclass more of a thematic grab-bag sort of deal?
I think it takes a balance of the two is fine. Good individual features are fine, things that work on a THEME is good in general. Beguiling defense has nothing to do with teleportation, for example. But your first 2 being based on misty step and last 2 being different I think would be fine. I just think the 14th level goes to far. Double cast isn't a bad idea it just feels too much to me and even feels weak for a 14th level feature.
For other subclasses GOO is good as we see here, very well focused to me. Fiend seems the big loser in this one but only because of the save on hurl through hell and what i consider not great spell list.
Going TOO far and it becomes less about synergy and more about being one note.
First of all, not giving up my previous statements about the new archfey should be a new subclass, focus on misty step, be it's own thing, and get the old archfey back.
Ok?
Ok.
I think another approach is to be a bit more open ended while trying to hold a theme. One of the tings I appreciate about my players is that one of them is currently a wizard and comes up with some pretty damned unique ways to use a handful of utility cantrips to do damage in unique ways. What's nice about it is that although it may not be intended purpose, there's enough flexibility within them to suit a number of purposes.
In a way, you want to stay thematically on point, but also leave the classes open enough for different interpretations that you can get those multiple builds.
The Old One seems to be more of the winner amongst these as they all carry theme, the uses of many of them work across different pacts, and can assist in a number of builds. The traits are all themed around psychic abilities, and each one has its uses. Out thegate you get telepathic communication an get to drop verbal and somatic components. That's INSTANTLY getting Sorcerer's 'subtle spell" ability for all spells for free (as long as it's enchantment or illusion, which arguably outside of an assassination attempt are the spells you don't want anyone to know you're casting). . The 6th level is forcing disadvantage on others and advantage for you. Advantage/disadvantage is highly underrated. In many cases it's better than extra dice or extra points on a single roll. 10th doubles down with hex to do that to saving throws and not just attacks.14th gives you summon aberration which is the best of the 14th level features.
The celestial and fiend still have some amazing spells given throughout its levels Nobody's going to shy away from a greater restoration or a revivify. Fiend gets the iconic fireball as well as geas (I want that so bad... It's such a warlock's patron sort of spell... XD )and insect plague.
The celestial has hit dice that I'm not a fan of dice as resources, but it leans into healing. The 6th level goes for radiant and fire damage which isn't as grat as psychic, but ok... 10th leans in with more hitpoints, this time they're temporary and for you and your party. 14th is bonkers. You don't die, but insta-revive to half life and do damage to every enemy nearby that wronged you. It's boring, but hitpoints are a resource NOBODY wants to be without, and that's why healers exist.
Fiend's level three gives you the same as the celestial's level 14 or the orc's natural feat but it's WAY weaker than the celestial (obviously) and slightly more powerful than the orc's natural ability.Level 6 is extra dice to a roll, and we discuss in the great old one, that it's not as great as advantage/disadvantage, but it has more ersatility than the old one's pact because doesn't apply to (just) combat. 10 kinda sucks with just getting a damage resistance. Bleh. Little more than useless really because you kinda have to know what you're going to be fighting and if you guess wrong (which is likely), you're SOL.Hurl through hell got a nerf but it's not bad. Not as awesome as celestial's level 14 but it's not useless.
The archfey's focus is on misty step, and it's one dimensional because that's where the focus all is.
Beguiling defenses... Half the player options (the elves, the fairie, the underdark creatures, probably the yuan-ti, etc) have charm resistance or immunity out the gate, and I don't think it's a very common type of magic granted to monsters, which prefer to do damage than cast conditions (outside of poison) than anything else. I mean maybe it's more common than being petrified but still. The psychic damage it gives is... Well, it's confusing to understand what psychic damage it's dealing (it's not a die roll, it's a reaction to being hit, the creature makes a wisdom save???? (why wisdom???) and why psychic???)
And level 14 is free misty step if you cast enchantment or illusion spell... Which your level 3 is casting misty step for free equal to your charisma, so really it's just more casting of misty step.
You could just have a "misty step" invocation and it would have 75% of the class features in a single go and probably even better for the player. (Level 6's misty step plus invisibility is kinda broken but if you could misty step at will rather than cast, you could just cast invisibility and it would be equivalent as it is with that 14th level).
The changes from the archfey other than the lack of fey presence also have that the 6th level allows you to cast invisibility with your misty step, and not do misty step/invisibility in one goe and only as a response to taking damage.
The beguiling defense has the strange damage thing as an extra over just resistance to charm which as I said was pointless, and the break from dark delerium...
Honestly, if anything from the old bothers me it's that dark delerium ends with the creature taking damage. I recognize that it may be a bit broken to keep a monster in an illusion for 10 rounds, but it could be that the creature has to make another wisdom save on its turn if it took damage that round and I'd be peachy keen with it. It IS a level 14 spell, and anything less is mechanically less than charm or sleep.
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
For beguiling defense before it also gave charm immunity and allowed you to use your reaction to turn a charm against an enemy. The problem is, of course, that not only was it rare for a DM to use a charm effect, but it was even rarer that they would target a caster with the charm effect and even rarer for some who know you have charm immunity, and even if they DID the creatures that are likely to try to charm the party are typically immune to charms themselves. So effectively it basically never did anything except give charm immunity. Now it does that plus the reaction when you take damage. The reaction does 2 things when you take damage, the first you take half damage, the second is the attacker has to make a wisdom saving throw or take the same damage you just did. What is happening here from a thematic and narrative stand point is the second half of the damage you took didn't go away, instead you are tricking your attacker into feeling your pain and taking the other half of the damage for you.
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
Edit: reserving room for later to discuss beguiling defense..... please stand by thank you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
Edit: reserving room for later to discuss beguiling defense..... please stand by thank you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
They can still target you. They just have disadvantage on attacks and they can't target you with abilities that require them to see. Invisibility is not the hidden condition you have to take the hide action for that.
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
Edit: reserving room for later to discuss beguiling defense..... please stand by thank you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
They can still target you. They just have disadvantage on attacks and they can't target you with abilities that require them to see. Invisibility is not the hidden condition you have to take the hide action for that.
Correction, it removes any effectiveness at all when it comes to weapon attacks or attacks that have an area of effect below a certain size. You PROBABLY will hit them with a well placed fireball, but probably not. Because it's not "the invisible creature is still 5 feet from you", it's "you can't see them and they're at least 30 feet away plus any movement they didn't yet use". .. So i guess actually a ranged rogue still might have some advantages over melee, in that that's 60 feet of movement from where you last saw them, but still...Maybe if you're fighting in snow or in a swamp or somewhere where terrain matters and can leave evidence, but even that is easily going to be argued as a perception check in the heat of battle, or an easy stealth check (especially for a rogue). Anything else and the DM is being pissy because the player used a broken skill which is a situation where both sides are being kinda dickish.
It's disadvantage if you know they're standing right next to you and which 5 ft square to swing at.
Magic missile doesn't even help because you need to see...
EDIT: The funny thing is, The incredible irony of it is that The Great Old One's 6th level telapathic bond feature says you can read their attacks and force a wisdon save. THAT gives advantage and disadvantage that would cancel the two abilities out and you could argue a telepathic bod would reveal location if the DM allows it (since rules mention nothing of this)
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
Edit: reserving room for later to discuss beguiling defense..... please stand by thank you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
They can still target you. They just have disadvantage on attacks and they can't target you with abilities that require them to see. Invisibility is not the hidden condition you have to take the hide action for that.
Correction, it removes any effectiveness at all when it comes to weapon attacks or attacks that have an area of effect below a certain size. You PROBABLY will hit them with a well placed fireball, but probably not. Because it's not "the invisible creature is still 5 feet from you", it's "you can't see them and they're at least 30 feet away plus any movement they didn't yet use". .. So i guess actually a ranged rogue still might have some advantages over melee, in that that's 60 feet of movement from where you last saw them, but still...Maybe if you're fighting in snow or in a swamp or somewhere where terrain matters and can leave evidence, but even that is easily going to be argued as a perception check in the heat of battle, or an easy stealth check (especially for a rogue). Anything else and the DM is being pissy because the player used a broken skill which is a situation where both sides are being kinda dickish.
It's disadvantage if you know they're standing right next to you and which 5 ft square to swing at.
Magic missile doesn't even help because you need to see...
EDIT: The funny thing is, The incredible irony of it is that The Great Old One's 6th level telapathic bond feature says you can read their attacks and force a wisdon save. THAT gives advantage and disadvantage that would cancel the two abilities out and you could argue a telepathic bod would reveal location if the DM allows it (since rules mention nothing of this)
Just to be clear, rules as written the creature knows where the warlock is after they teleport and are invisible unless they take the hide action. Yes they get disadvantage on their attack though, but they don't have to "guess the square" regardless of the terrain.
That said, I again encourage the suggestion that the "added effects" from misty escape only work with the reaction version and I think we would be ok.
Edit: BTW I put in the info I was hoping to about beguiling defense
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
Edit: reserving room for later to discuss beguiling defense..... please stand by thank you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
They can still target you. They just have disadvantage on attacks and they can't target you with abilities that require them to see. Invisibility is not the hidden condition you have to take the hide action for that.
Correction, it removes any effectiveness at all when it comes to weapon attacks or attacks that have an area of effect below a certain size. You PROBABLY will hit them with a well placed fireball, but probably not. Because it's not "the invisible creature is still 5 feet from you", it's "you can't see them and they're at least 30 feet away plus any movement they didn't yet use". .. So i guess actually a ranged rogue still might have some advantages over melee, in that that's 60 feet of movement from where you last saw them, but still...Maybe if you're fighting in snow or in a swamp or somewhere where terrain matters and can leave evidence, but even that is easily going to be argued as a perception check in the heat of battle, or an easy stealth check (especially for a rogue). Anything else and the DM is being pissy because the player used a broken skill which is a situation where both sides are being kinda dickish.
It's disadvantage if you know they're standing right next to you and which 5 ft square to swing at.
Magic missile doesn't even help because you need to see...
EDIT: The funny thing is, The incredible irony of it is that The Great Old One's 6th level telapathic bond feature says you can read their attacks and force a wisdon save. THAT gives advantage and disadvantage that would cancel the two abilities out and you could argue a telepathic bod would reveal location if the DM allows it (since rules mention nothing of this)
Just to be clear, rules as written the creature knows where the warlock is after they teleport and are invisible unless they take the hide action. Yes they get disadvantage on their attack though, but they don't have to "guess the square" regardless of the terrain.
That said, I again encourage the suggestion that the "added effects" from misty escape only work with the reaction version and I think we would be ok.
Edit: BTW I put in the info I was hoping to about beguiling defense
I agree, if it goes back to just an added effect of the reaction, it would be safer.
As for beguiling defense.... The narrative flavor is very weak.
I don't disagree with what you laid out. Defense against charm is silly. What they did was try to make it "useful" but the half damage is very clunky, the flavor is bad, and for all this you can do it only once per LONG rest. It makes it a last ditch effort against death or something you pull out when facing something that can one shot you......... at level 10. So basically you stepped into an ancient dragon's lair and you're basically hoping to save your own ass long enough to get an extra turn to escape.. which you probably won't.
Honestly, THAT ability at level 3 with the non-combat fey presence would be perfect for 3rd level, probably combine the 3rd level fey step with the 6th level but remove the invisibility bonus, and free up the 10th slot for your current 14th misty step and put in a decent 14th level.
I don't think any of that would be overpowered as I just proposed.
I am just going to say. Defense against charm was on the old Archfey as well. I will also say that I believe it a must have for Archfey. If you are dealing with Fey on a regular basis as someone who makes deals with them you better be immune to charm. You dominate persons, you do not get dominated.
I am just going to say. Defense against charm was on the old Archfey as well. I will also say that I believe it a must have for Archfey. If you are dealing with Fey on a regular basis as someone who makes deals with them you better be immune to charm. You dominate persons, you do not get dominated.
You'd think that it would be obvious that a person under the employ of an archfey would be given mental defenses against other fey.
I am just going to say. Defense against charm was on the old Archfey as well. I will also say that I believe it a must have for Archfey. If you are dealing with Fey on a regular basis as someone who makes deals with them you better be immune to charm. You dominate persons, you do not get dominated.
Yeah, I don't disagree or really mind. We already pointed out how relatively unused it is...
I am just going to say. Defense against charm was on the old Archfey as well. I will also say that I believe it a must have for Archfey. If you are dealing with Fey on a regular basis as someone who makes deals with them you better be immune to charm. You dominate persons, you do not get dominated.
Yeah, I don't disagree or really mind. We already pointed out how relatively unused it is...
Ya, and that is why they added the rider. My biggest issue with it is it competes with your reaction which you may be using on misty escape. If it did something that didn't use your reaction in addition to charm immunity I think it may be more interesting.
The more I look at the Archfey patron, the more I start to get the outline of this soft-control tank character. A real kiter of a range-tank :)
Imagine, right from the get-go, you can run in and attack, and then Taunting Step away to a location that's hard for the villains to follow, or that gives you cover. Now they have a good chance of having disadvantage on any attacks they make against your allies. So, your whole group is protected. Sure, not as reliably as some Barbarian or Fighter options, but it is an AoE "taunt", so that's fair.
It becomes even better at 6th, when you can just interrupt a multiattack by vanishing with Taunting Step. If the monster wants to continue attacking your allies with the rest of its attacks? Disadvantage!
Beguiling Defenses gives you a limited supply of a punishing version of Uncanny Dodge to temper a lucky critical hit against you, for instance.
I feel like this could have the makings of a very unorthodox but amusing team protector :)
The more I look at the Archfey patron, the more I start to get the outline of this soft-control tank character. A real kiter of a range-tank :)
Imagine, right from the get-go, you can run in and attack, and then Taunting Step away to a location that's hard for the villains to follow, or that gives you cover. Now they have a good chance of having disadvantage on any attacks they make against your allies. So, your whole group is protected. Sure, not as reliably as some Barbarian or Fighter options, but it is an AoE "taunt", so that's fair.
It becomes even better at 6th, when you can just interrupt a multiattack by vanishing with Taunting Step. If the monster wants to continue attacking your allies with the rest of its attacks? Disadvantage!
Beguiling Defenses gives you a limited supply of a punishing version of Uncanny Dodge to temper a lucky critical hit against you, for instance.
I feel like this could have the makings of a very unorthodox but amusing team protector :)
You mean like a swashbuckler?
Seriously. Compare the two's abilities/stats... There's more overlap than you'd guess.
I'd like to see the Great Old One be a little more Illithid-themed. Their 6th level Clairvoyant Combatant feature should specify that "attacks" includes spell attacks. And i think itd be better if it was more than once per rest or using one of your very previous spell slots. That is a bad mechanic. Similar to monk problems, where everything costs your one resource. But i'd also like to see them get some kind of stunning telekinetic blast like mindflayers- maybe at higher level.
I think it's pretty good, but could be a little better.
I think it takes a balance of the two is fine. Good individual features are fine, things that work on a THEME is good in general. Beguiling defense has nothing to do with teleportation, for example. But your first 2 being based on misty step and last 2 being different I think would be fine. I just think the 14th level goes to far. Double cast isn't a bad idea it just feels too much to me and even feels weak for a 14th level feature.
For other subclasses GOO is good as we see here, very well focused to me. Fiend seems the big loser in this one but only because of the save on hurl through hell and what i consider not great spell list.
Going TOO far and it becomes less about synergy and more about being one note.
First of all, not giving up my previous statements about the new archfey should be a new subclass, focus on misty step, be it's own thing, and get the old archfey back.
Ok?
Ok.
I think another approach is to be a bit more open ended while trying to hold a theme. One of the tings I appreciate about my players is that one of them is currently a wizard and comes up with some pretty damned unique ways to use a handful of utility cantrips to do damage in unique ways. What's nice about it is that although it may not be intended purpose, there's enough flexibility within them to suit a number of purposes.
In a way, you want to stay thematically on point, but also leave the classes open enough for different interpretations that you can get those multiple builds.
The Old One seems to be more of the winner amongst these as they all carry theme, the uses of many of them work across different pacts, and can assist in a number of builds. The traits are all themed around psychic abilities, and each one has its uses. Out thegate you get telepathic communication an get to drop verbal and somatic components. That's INSTANTLY getting Sorcerer's 'subtle spell" ability for all spells for free (as long as it's enchantment or illusion, which arguably outside of an assassination attempt are the spells you don't want anyone to know you're casting). . The 6th level is forcing disadvantage on others and advantage for you. Advantage/disadvantage is highly underrated. In many cases it's better than extra dice or extra points on a single roll. 10th doubles down with hex to do that to saving throws and not just attacks.14th gives you summon aberration which is the best of the 14th level features.
The celestial and fiend still have some amazing spells given throughout its levels Nobody's going to shy away from a greater restoration or a revivify. Fiend gets the iconic fireball as well as geas (I want that so bad... It's such a warlock's patron sort of spell... XD )and insect plague.
The celestial has hit dice that I'm not a fan of dice as resources, but it leans into healing. The 6th level goes for radiant and fire damage which isn't as grat as psychic, but ok... 10th leans in with more hitpoints, this time they're temporary and for you and your party. 14th is bonkers. You don't die, but insta-revive to half life and do damage to every enemy nearby that wronged you. It's boring, but hitpoints are a resource NOBODY wants to be without, and that's why healers exist.
Fiend's level three gives you the same as the celestial's level 14 or the orc's natural feat but it's WAY weaker than the celestial (obviously) and slightly more powerful than the orc's natural ability.Level 6 is extra dice to a roll, and we discuss in the great old one, that it's not as great as advantage/disadvantage, but it has more ersatility than the old one's pact because doesn't apply to (just) combat. 10 kinda sucks with just getting a damage resistance. Bleh. Little more than useless really because you kinda have to know what you're going to be fighting and if you guess wrong (which is likely), you're SOL.Hurl through hell got a nerf but it's not bad. Not as awesome as celestial's level 14 but it's not useless.
The archfey's focus is on misty step, and it's one dimensional because that's where the focus all is.
Beguiling defenses... Half the player options (the elves, the fairie, the underdark creatures, probably the yuan-ti, etc) have charm resistance or immunity out the gate, and I don't think it's a very common type of magic granted to monsters, which prefer to do damage than cast conditions (outside of poison) than anything else. I mean maybe it's more common than being petrified but still. The psychic damage it gives is... Well, it's confusing to understand what psychic damage it's dealing (it's not a die roll, it's a reaction to being hit, the creature makes a wisdom save???? (why wisdom???) and why psychic???)
And level 14 is free misty step if you cast enchantment or illusion spell... Which your level 3 is casting misty step for free equal to your charisma, so really it's just more casting of misty step.
You could just have a "misty step" invocation and it would have 75% of the class features in a single go and probably even better for the player. (Level 6's misty step plus invisibility is kinda broken but if you could misty step at will rather than cast, you could just cast invisibility and it would be equivalent as it is with that 14th level).
That's not exactly an ideal design.
The changes from the archfey other than the lack of fey presence also have that the 6th level allows you to cast invisibility with your misty step, and not do misty step/invisibility in one goe and only as a response to taking damage.
The beguiling defense has the strange damage thing as an extra over just resistance to charm which as I said was pointless, and the break from dark delerium...
Honestly, if anything from the old bothers me it's that dark delerium ends with the creature taking damage. I recognize that it may be a bit broken to keep a monster in an illusion for 10 rounds, but it could be that the creature has to make another wisdom save on its turn if it took damage that round and I'd be peachy keen with it. It IS a level 14 spell, and anything less is mechanically less than charm or sleep.
I want my subclasses to be flavorful and have features that are mechanically useful.
So I am not going to talk about the 14th level feature. Because I 100% agree DD is preferred. I got enough teleporting by this point dont need more.
Fey step vs fey presence. Obviously we know Fey step has more times you are going to benefit from it. As far as flavor goes I encourage you to look at the other fey things in the game. Ancients paladin gets misty step, fey wanderer ranger gets misty step. Eladin fey step, summon fey.... fey step. I believe the ONLY reason Fey lock didn't list it somewhere before is because the spell lists for lock were things that WERENT on their list already AND you got you first feature at level 1 with it being a 2nd level spell. And yet even the original design STILL found a way to put a teleport into the features. Flavor wise misty step fits.
If you think it is too strong to get teleport temp invis on bonus action cast I say put that. I dont have an issue with it.
For beguiling defense before it also gave charm immunity and allowed you to use your reaction to turn a charm against an enemy. The problem is, of course, that not only was it rare for a DM to use a charm effect, but it was even rarer that they would target a caster with the charm effect and even rarer for some who know you have charm immunity, and even if they DID the creatures that are likely to try to charm the party are typically immune to charms themselves. So effectively it basically never did anything except give charm immunity. Now it does that plus the reaction when you take damage.
The reaction does 2 things when you take damage, the first you take half damage, the second is the attacker has to make a wisdom saving throw or take the same damage you just did. What is happening here from a thematic and narrative stand point is the second half of the damage you took didn't go away, instead you are tricking your attacker into feeling your pain and taking the other half of the damage for you.
Fey presence is like Swashbucker's Panache. With the right DM, it has a lot of use outside of combat. Considering how long they went on and on about the fighter getting benefits outside of combat, this seems like a HUGE step back. If they made it a noncombat feature exclusively and gave you the misty step as well, I'd be ok with it.
Temporary invisibility for free is kinda broken because as it stands now, every casting of misty step, free or with a cost (and it's a given spell that doesn't count to your list), is with invisibilty. Plus spell slots on short rest. So you have something that can essentially, every round, strike, then do misty step as a bonus action with invisibility, meaning your enemies can't target you.
6 levels o fey warlock, and the rest as a swashbucker (which prefers dex/cha builds and gets rewarded with super high initiative for it) or other melee rogue guarantees sneak attack, invisibility, maximum mobility, and is broken as broken can be. And that's not even choosing anything else for further optimizations.
In other words, you're not JUST nightcrawler, you're invisible nightcrawler with super assassin skills.
They can still target you. They just have disadvantage on attacks and they can't target you with abilities that require them to see. Invisibility is not the hidden condition you have to take the hide action for that.
Correction, it removes any effectiveness at all when it comes to weapon attacks or attacks that have an area of effect below a certain size. You PROBABLY will hit them with a well placed fireball, but probably not. Because it's not "the invisible creature is still 5 feet from you", it's "you can't see them and they're at least 30 feet away plus any movement they didn't yet use". .. So i guess actually a ranged rogue still might have some advantages over melee, in that that's 60 feet of movement from where you last saw them, but still...Maybe if you're fighting in snow or in a swamp or somewhere where terrain matters and can leave evidence, but even that is easily going to be argued as a perception check in the heat of battle, or an easy stealth check (especially for a rogue). Anything else and the DM is being pissy because the player used a broken skill which is a situation where both sides are being kinda dickish.
It's disadvantage if you know they're standing right next to you and which 5 ft square to swing at.
Magic missile doesn't even help because you need to see...
EDIT: The funny thing is, The incredible irony of it is that The Great Old One's 6th level telapathic bond feature says you can read their attacks and force a wisdon save. THAT gives advantage and disadvantage that would cancel the two abilities out and you could argue a telepathic bod would reveal location if the DM allows it (since rules mention nothing of this)
Just to be clear, rules as written the creature knows where the warlock is after they teleport and are invisible unless they take the hide action. Yes they get disadvantage on their attack though, but they don't have to "guess the square" regardless of the terrain.
That said, I again encourage the suggestion that the "added effects" from misty escape only work with the reaction version and I think we would be ok.
Edit: BTW I put in the info I was hoping to about beguiling defense
I agree, if it goes back to just an added effect of the reaction, it would be safer.
As for beguiling defense.... The narrative flavor is very weak.
I don't disagree with what you laid out. Defense against charm is silly. What they did was try to make it "useful" but the half damage is very clunky, the flavor is bad, and for all this you can do it only once per LONG rest. It makes it a last ditch effort against death or something you pull out when facing something that can one shot you......... at level 10. So basically you stepped into an ancient dragon's lair and you're basically hoping to save your own ass long enough to get an extra turn to escape.. which you probably won't.
Honestly, THAT ability at level 3 with the non-combat fey presence would be perfect for 3rd level, probably combine the 3rd level fey step with the 6th level but remove the invisibility bonus, and free up the 10th slot for your current 14th misty step and put in a decent 14th level.
I don't think any of that would be overpowered as I just proposed.
I am just going to say. Defense against charm was on the old Archfey as well. I will also say that I believe it a must have for Archfey. If you are dealing with Fey on a regular basis as someone who makes deals with them you better be immune to charm. You dominate persons, you do not get dominated.
You'd think that it would be obvious that a person under the employ of an archfey would be given mental defenses against other fey.
Yeah, I don't disagree or really mind. We already pointed out how relatively unused it is...
Ya, and that is why they added the rider. My biggest issue with it is it competes with your reaction which you may be using on misty escape. If it did something that didn't use your reaction in addition to charm immunity I think it may be more interesting.
The more I look at the Archfey patron, the more I start to get the outline of this soft-control tank character. A real kiter of a range-tank :)
Imagine, right from the get-go, you can run in and attack, and then Taunting Step away to a location that's hard for the villains to follow, or that gives you cover. Now they have a good chance of having disadvantage on any attacks they make against your allies. So, your whole group is protected. Sure, not as reliably as some Barbarian or Fighter options, but it is an AoE "taunt", so that's fair.
It becomes even better at 6th, when you can just interrupt a multiattack by vanishing with Taunting Step. If the monster wants to continue attacking your allies with the rest of its attacks? Disadvantage!
Beguiling Defenses gives you a limited supply of a punishing version of Uncanny Dodge to temper a lucky critical hit against you, for instance.
I feel like this could have the makings of a very unorthodox but amusing team protector :)
You mean like a swashbuckler?
Seriously. Compare the two's abilities/stats... There's more overlap than you'd guess.
I'd like to see the Great Old One be a little more Illithid-themed. Their 6th level Clairvoyant Combatant feature should specify that "attacks" includes spell attacks. And i think itd be better if it was more than once per rest or using one of your very previous spell slots. That is a bad mechanic. Similar to monk problems, where everything costs your one resource. But i'd also like to see them get some kind of stunning telekinetic blast like mindflayers- maybe at higher level.
I think it's pretty good, but could be a little better.
Doesn't need to, attack means any attack including spell attacks.
With or without this warlock feature.
Attacks always consider spell attacks to be attacks.
well....6th ed mostly feels like an excuse to sell more books. It could just be an eratta or two