Goodberry without providing food just isn’t worth it for me. 10hp of mostly OoC healing. In combat any other healing spell is better.
Goodberry is ten 'bring unconscious teammate back on their feet' for a first level spell slot. It's an excellent value at level 1, though it does decline in value at higher levels.
Thats literally what line of sight is, an unobstructed line of vision.
Spells do not require line of sight (unless they require being able to see the target), they require a clear path to the target, which means no obstructions (such as a wall of force) in the way.
Is now a bad time to point out that Tiny Hut only creates one quarter of a sphere?
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Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I noticed that Treantmonk came out with a video on 'outlier' spells, which I don't entirely agree with, but it's an interesting list:
Ceremony -- Why is this even a spell? Does everyone in D&D worlds need to find a cleric capable of casting this in order to get married? This just seems like it should be a lore/DM thing rather than a player spell.
Goodberry -- He fails to fix the rest-casting aspect of this spell, where casters can dump all their left over spellslots at the end of the day into the spell for a huge amount of out-of-combat healing. This needs 2 fixes: (1) the berries last for 8 hours, (2) the material components cost 1 sp and are consumed by the spell.
Shield -- His solution is ok, but it doesn't fix the combo with armour as characters already with a high AC are unlikely to be hit more than once per round anyway. The right fix is to make this "if you aren't wearing armour or using a shield, you can..."
Sleep -- His solution actually buffs the hell out of Sleep, Sleep is perfect as it is.
Heat Metal -- Heat Metal is a problem spell, it is either OP or useless depending on what enemies you are facing. The vast majority of enemies don't wear or use metal objects and for them this spell is completely pointless, whereas for the handful that wear metal armour it is overpowered. IMO the best way to fix it is to completely change how it works, make it a buff spell that causes a metal weapon to deal 1d8 additional fire damage on a successful hit as long as you retain concentration.
Spike Growth -- This is a problem with how grappling works and AoE spells, if you are grappling a creature and move that creature into an AoE damage effect the grappler should be affected by that AoE effect but have Advantage on the saving throw, while the grapplee should have disadvantage.
Web -- Should have both the option to use an action to escape or make a save at the end of your turn to escape.
Conjure Animals -- All the conjure spells should be limited to the 2x CR 1 or 1x CR 2 creature options, likewise Animate Objects should be limited to the 1 or 2 object options.
Fear -- Fix it so they can take other actions if there is no where to run, and give them a save at the end of each turn without additional conditions.
Hypnotic Pattern -- just give them repeat saves at end of each turn.
Polymorph -- Change it so it is limited to a CR = 1/2 the CR or level of the targeted creature, and give hostile creatures a save at the end of each turn to escape.
Planar Ally -- Give it limited duration e.g. 30 days.
The main problem with Planar Ally isn't the duration, though that is one issue. The main problem is that it can be really broken or really underwhelming, depending entirely on the DM's whims. That alone discourages players from even using it, because there's no way to predict how effective it will be unless the DM is open to discussion about it.
If I cast it and make contact with the entity, they could send me an ice mephit or an efreeti. They could send me a pegasus or a planetar. They could send me a quasit or a balor. And even if I get an uber-powerful creature as the "ally", the spell doesn't actually compel them to follow me, so I could be royally ****ed anyway depending on what it is.
Also I mirror Treatmonk's view that making them a party member that can gain XP is unnecessary.
Also why does this spell exclude fey? And why isn't it a warlock spell when the entity you're contacting can be a demon prince, archdevil, or any other such power?
If the players can't trust the DM to be fair to them, that table is dysfunctional anyway. Which is why I don't buy all the complaints about "mother may I?" stuff. The entire game is "mother may I?", the DM can end the game however they want whenever they want.
TBH rereading the spell, I amend my evaluation, it should be moved to the DMG since I would argue it isn't a novel spell. It is just a Sending spell or a Commune spell with a suggested response from the contacted creature. It is a narrative arc / plot hook, not a spell.
Goodberry without providing food just isn’t worth it for me. 10hp of mostly OoC healing. In combat any other healing spell is better.
Well, I tend not to use it in combat.
Remember how Sleep works, did you find a single low hp thing and that’s the whole combat? Your party was going to kill it easily anyway.
I found three goblins, with 7 hit points each. The average roll for sleep takes them all out. And no, 3 goblins can pose a very serious threat to a level 1 party.
You care because now at the start of your day your resources are being depleted. Your day isn’t over, it just began.
Yeah, but I got a long rest.
Thats literally what line of sight is, an unobstructed line of vision. If anyone has told/taught you different they are wrong. I know all the debates about glass, but line of sight is no hindered by glass. Unless you see in inferred or ultraviolet, but that’s another conversation. From the DMG:
Line of Sight
To precisely determine whether there is line of sight between two spaces, pick a corner of one space and trace an imaginary line from that corner to any part of another space. If at least one such line doesn’t pass through or touch an object or effect that blocks vision — such as a stone wall, a thick curtain, or a dense cloud of fog — then there is line of sight.
That's my bad, I used the wrong terminology. Somebody else pointed out the actual reason it wouldn't work.
I know in the type of games I run increasing the cast time of Simulacrum would have it be used far less. I probably don’t give enough down time. Honestly maybe it’s my DM bias that doesn’t see this as powerful. It looks like a money sink to me. I suppose with Wish being surprised by them adding another member with half health could mess up a planned fight, but I doubt it would. Also more importantly wouldn’t my failure table suggestion fix all the issues. Since the Wish version wouldn’t replicate the stats.
Yeah, that seems likely. In a lot of tables, if you have 12 hours to waste, you've probably got a whole week as well.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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A sphere is a round solid shape. Cut an orange in half is it hollow or solid with a bottom/floor? And Crawford said Tiny Hut had a floor. So RAW and RAI Tiny Hut has a floor.
Tiny Hut is not solid all the way through, it has a shell and only that shell is solid. Cut an orange in half and there's no orange peel where you sliced it, it's only on the outside.
tiny hut says dome, not a solid hemisphere. this regards the rind, not the whole orange.
edit: oh, i see the problem. the PHB spells out "hemisphere" when describing the range. yeah, lets all debate about cones and wedges next. or stick with dome since that is stated five times to hemisphere's one. dome, convex, bowl... no floor.
On sleep and being OP, do people actually play low levels or are they just accepting this nugget as fact. It will knock out 22 hit points of enemies on average sounds like a lot but really how does it work out enemy one has 8 hit points, enemy 2 has 8 hit points oh you only have 6 hit points left so 2 enemies dropped. You know what would have also dropped 2 enemies, 2 swings of your fighters sword. Yeah sure in some optimal situation where a single enemy of 21 hit points is attack you its more powerful than a single swing of your fighters sword. Or if for some insane reason you are fighting 11 2 hit point enemies or something. But oh no one fight in a blue moon on your quest for 300 xp to reach level 2 it seemed powerful. That is just not even straining the game. It becoming worthless at later levels I both sort of disagree with and don't care about as many spells become weak as you level. I sort of disagree in that its a way to do things like disable commoners without hurting them so sure in the dungeon its not useful but it has its uses and it has come up.
Remember how Sleep works, did you find a single low hp thing and that’s the whole combat? Your party was going to kill it easily anyway.
I found three goblins, with 7 hit points each. The average roll for sleep takes them all out. And no, 3 goblins can pose a very serious threat to a level 1 party.
Burning hands could have killed all 3 as well. Maybe all 3 make their saves and now there are 3 goblins with 2 hit points. But either way I'm thinking problem solved just as well if not better with burning hands.
Goodberry without providing food just isn’t worth it for me. 10hp of mostly OoC healing. In combat any other healing spell is better.
Goodberry is ten 'bring unconscious teammate back on their feet' for a first level spell slot. It's an excellent value at level 1, though it does decline in value at higher levels.
Thats literally what line of sight is, an unobstructed line of vision.
Spells do not require line of sight (unless they require being able to see the target), they require a clear path to the target, which means no obstructions (such as a wall of force) in the way.
Using 10 actions to bring a creature back to 1hp doesn’t look appealing to me even at level 1. The action economy is why I wouldn’t waste time on this. Everyone wh has Goodberry has better healing options.
The clear path to target feels wonky when you read what it says. First mentions total cover, so you go read total cover and you need to be completely concealed. The target is not concealed. Then it talks about placing an area of effect at a place you can’t see. Well you can see it. That section needs a hard rewrite. After reading it multiple times any spell that allows you to pick a point of origin you can see would be useable on the opposite side of Wall of Force. Honestly the only thing stopping fireball is flavor text that the bead originates near you streaks to the desired point. Because of that the bead would hit the Wall and can’t pass through it. Chill Touch, Create Bonfire, Infestation, Darkness, Mind Spike, Moonbeam and many more spells can originate on the opposite side of the wall because you can see it. I’ve denied a bunch of spells that probably should have worked. Now I really know Wall of Force isn’t that great of a spell. It actually doesn’t protect the caster from as much as they might believe it does?
Is now a bad time to point out that Tiny Hut only creates one quarter of a sphere?
It’s half of a sphere.
It is also a quarter sphere.
Because English is an imperfect language, lol.
Sleep is in no way OP -- if anything, it is underpowered. It is also a stealth tool, and an essential drama and tension tool.
Plus, nothing else quite annoys PCs more than watching their wizard pass out just before starting a boss fight.
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Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
They're saying that you would create the ten berries and have them on your person.
Actually what you do is create ten berries and spread them between the PCs so everyone has at least one and preferably two. Then any PC can bring any other PC up. This is very valuable at low levels, at least until PCs have enough wealth to just use healing potions for the same purpose.
The clear path to target feels wonky when you read what it says. First mentions total cover, so you go read total cover and you need to be completely concealed. The target is not concealed.
The cover rules do have a problem that total cover assumes an opaque obstacle, but everything else in the cover rules just talks about an obstacle blocking, and the DMG cover rules clearly just assume that it's about whether there's an obstacle in the way.
It's weird how everyone just assumes you can feed an unconscious person a berry in six seconds. Goodberry doesn't say you can do that; it feels like you guys have all homebrewed Goodberry to be much, much better than intended and are now lamenting that it's too good.
It does suck that Goodberry removes the survival pillar of the game, though. I would axe the spell entirely.
It's weird how everyone just assumes you can feed an unconscious person a berry in six seconds. Goodberry doesn't say you can do that; it feels like you guys have all homebrewed Goodberry to be much, much better than intended and are now lamenting that it's too good.
No-one ever had a problem with that use case. The problem use case was always that it's most of create food and water as a first level spell.
It's weird how everyone just assumes you can feed an unconscious person a berry in six seconds. Goodberry doesn't say you can do that; it feels like you guys have all homebrewed Goodberry to be much, much better than intended and are now lamenting that it's too good.
They're saying that you would create the ten berries and have them on your person. Then, if someone goes down, you could use an action to feed one of the berries to them. If the person who cast the spell in the first place went down, someone else could feed a berry to them instead of just stabilizing them. Assuming of course no-one has healing potions and the person who cast Goodberry is the only one in the party who can heal, and it also depends on how you rule feeding a berry to an unconscious person.
It's weird how everyone just assumes you can feed an unconscious person a berry in six seconds. Goodberry doesn't say you can do that; it feels like you guys have all homebrewed Goodberry to be much, much better than intended and are now lamenting that it's too good.
No-one ever had a problem with that use case. The problem use case was always that it's most of create food and water as a first level spell.
You only cover the food... it won't quench your thirst.
You only cover the food... it won't quench your thirst.
The water part is usually less of a problem than the food part, and if the DM is making that part hard, purify food and drink (which is a ritual) will cover it in most terrain, and in a desert create or destroy water exists.
They're saying that you would create the ten berries and have them on your person.
Actually what you do is create ten berries and spread them between the PCs so everyone has at least one and preferably two. Then any PC can bring any other PC up. This is very valuable at low levels, at least until PCs have enough wealth to just use healing potions for the same purpose.
The clear path to target feels wonky when you read what it says. First mentions total cover, so you go read total cover and you need to be completely concealed. The target is not concealed.
The cover rules do have a problem that total cover assumes an opaque obstacle, but everything else in the cover rules just talks about an obstacle blocking, and the DMG cover rules clearly just assume that it's about whether there's an obstacle in the way.
The DMG does nothing to change the targeting rules. If you can see point you can make that the origin point for many spells. That means those spells work on the opposite side of Wall of Force. Well by RAW at least.
It's weird how everyone just assumes you can feed an unconscious person a berry in six seconds. Goodberry doesn't say you can do that; it feels like you guys have all homebrewed Goodberry to be much, much better than intended and are now lamenting that it's too good.
It does suck that Goodberry removes the survival pillar of the game, though. I would axe the spell entirely.
I suspect it is because the default rule lets you use a healing potion on someone who is unconscious. A berry seems just as likely as a potion imo. Its never come up in my games so I honestly don't know how I'd rule in the end.
WISH: Each time it is used it should add levels of exhaustion according to the level of the requested wish: If it is to replicate a spell you get as many exhaustion points as HALF the level of the replicated spell (Rounded up). In other cases you gain 5 exhaustion points.
SHIELD: Until the start of your next turn, you have an AC that CANNOT BE LESS than 18, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile. At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3nd level or higher, the MINIMUM AC you gain with this spell increases by 3 points for every TWO levels above 1st.
STONESKIN: Until the spell ends, all damage caused to the target that is FORCE, BLUDGEONING, PIERCING AND SLASHING that DOES NOT EXCEED THE THRESHOLD OF 15 DAMAGE WILL BE NEGATED. Additionally, the target gains advantage on CONSTITUTION saving throws and gains disadvantage on DEXTERITY saving throws.
PS: I corrected my mistake about the name of the spell, thanks for the correction Crawling_Chaos
Goodberry is ten 'bring unconscious teammate back on their feet' for a first level spell slot. It's an excellent value at level 1, though it does decline in value at higher levels.
Spells do not require line of sight (unless they require being able to see the target), they require a clear path to the target, which means no obstructions (such as a wall of force) in the way.
Is now a bad time to point out that Tiny Hut only creates one quarter of a sphere?
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
It’s half of a sphere.
If the players can't trust the DM to be fair to them, that table is dysfunctional anyway. Which is why I don't buy all the complaints about "mother may I?" stuff. The entire game is "mother may I?", the DM can end the game however they want whenever they want.
TBH rereading the spell, I amend my evaluation, it should be moved to the DMG since I would argue it isn't a novel spell. It is just a Sending spell or a Commune spell with a suggested response from the contacted creature. It is a narrative arc / plot hook, not a spell.
Well, I tend not to use it in combat.
I found three goblins, with 7 hit points each. The average roll for sleep takes them all out. And no, 3 goblins can pose a very serious threat to a level 1 party.
Yeah, but I got a long rest.
That's my bad, I used the wrong terminology. Somebody else pointed out the actual reason it wouldn't work.
Yeah, that seems likely. In a lot of tables, if you have 12 hours to waste, you've probably got a whole week as well.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
tiny hut says dome, not a solid hemisphere. this regards the rind, not the whole orange.
edit: oh, i see the problem. the PHB spells out "hemisphere" when describing the range. yeah, lets all debate about cones and wedges next. or stick with dome since that is stated five times to hemisphere's one. dome, convex, bowl... no floor.
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On sleep and being OP, do people actually play low levels or are they just accepting this nugget as fact. It will knock out 22 hit points of enemies on average sounds like a lot but really how does it work out enemy one has 8 hit points, enemy 2 has 8 hit points oh you only have 6 hit points left so 2 enemies dropped. You know what would have also dropped 2 enemies, 2 swings of your fighters sword. Yeah sure in some optimal situation where a single enemy of 21 hit points is attack you its more powerful than a single swing of your fighters sword. Or if for some insane reason you are fighting 11 2 hit point enemies or something. But oh no one fight in a blue moon on your quest for 300 xp to reach level 2 it seemed powerful. That is just not even straining the game. It becoming worthless at later levels I both sort of disagree with and don't care about as many spells become weak as you level. I sort of disagree in that its a way to do things like disable commoners without hurting them so sure in the dungeon its not useful but it has its uses and it has come up.
Burning hands could have killed all 3 as well. Maybe all 3 make their saves and now there are 3 goblins with 2 hit points. But either way I'm thinking problem solved just as well if not better with burning hands.
Using 10 actions to bring a creature back to 1hp doesn’t look appealing to me even at level 1. The action economy is why I wouldn’t waste time on this. Everyone wh has Goodberry has better healing options.
The clear path to target feels wonky when you read what it says. First mentions total cover, so you go read total cover and you need to be completely concealed. The target is not concealed. Then it talks about placing an area of effect at a place you can’t see. Well you can see it. That section needs a hard rewrite. After reading it multiple times any spell that allows you to pick a point of origin you can see would be useable on the opposite side of Wall of Force. Honestly the only thing stopping fireball is flavor text that the bead originates near you streaks to the desired point. Because of that the bead would hit the Wall and can’t pass through it. Chill Touch, Create Bonfire, Infestation, Darkness, Mind Spike, Moonbeam and many more spells can originate on the opposite side of the wall because you can see it. I’ve denied a bunch of spells that probably should have worked. Now I really know Wall of Force isn’t that great of a spell. It actually doesn’t protect the caster from as much as they might believe it does?
It is also a quarter sphere.
Because English is an imperfect language, lol.
Sleep is in no way OP -- if anything, it is underpowered. It is also a stealth tool, and an essential drama and tension tool.
Plus, nothing else quite annoys PCs more than watching their wizard pass out just before starting a boss fight.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Actually what you do is create ten berries and spread them between the PCs so everyone has at least one and preferably two. Then any PC can bring any other PC up. This is very valuable at low levels, at least until PCs have enough wealth to just use healing potions for the same purpose.
The cover rules do have a problem that total cover assumes an opaque obstacle, but everything else in the cover rules just talks about an obstacle blocking, and the DMG cover rules clearly just assume that it's about whether there's an obstacle in the way.
It's weird how everyone just assumes you can feed an unconscious person a berry in six seconds. Goodberry doesn't say you can do that; it feels like you guys have all homebrewed Goodberry to be much, much better than intended and are now lamenting that it's too good.
It does suck that Goodberry removes the survival pillar of the game, though. I would axe the spell entirely.
No-one ever had a problem with that use case. The problem use case was always that it's most of create food and water as a first level spell.
Relax, lol. It's not a personal slight.
You only cover the food... it won't quench your thirst.
The water part is usually less of a problem than the food part, and if the DM is making that part hard, purify food and drink (which is a ritual) will cover it in most terrain, and in a desert create or destroy water exists.
The DMG does nothing to change the targeting rules. If you can see point you can make that the origin point for many spells. That means those spells work on the opposite side of Wall of Force. Well by RAW at least.
I suspect it is because the default rule lets you use a healing potion on someone who is unconscious. A berry seems just as likely as a potion imo. Its never come up in my games so I honestly don't know how I'd rule in the end.
WISH: Each time it is used it should add levels of exhaustion according to the level of the requested wish: If it is to replicate a spell you get as many exhaustion points as HALF the level of the replicated spell (Rounded up). In other cases you gain 5 exhaustion points.
SHIELD: Until the start of your next turn, you have an AC that CANNOT BE LESS than 18, including against the triggering attack, and you take no damage from magic missile.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3nd level or higher, the MINIMUM AC you gain with this spell increases by 3 points for every TWO levels above 1st.
STONESKIN: Until the spell ends, all damage caused to the target that is FORCE, BLUDGEONING, PIERCING AND SLASHING that DOES NOT EXCEED THE THRESHOLD OF 15 DAMAGE WILL BE NEGATED.
Additionally, the target gains advantage on CONSTITUTION saving throws and gains disadvantage on DEXTERITY saving throws.
PS: I corrected my mistake about the name of the spell, thanks for the correction Crawling_Chaos