Warlock with recharging top level spells + Mystic Arcanum + powerful at will damage from EB or PotB is already one of the most powerful classes in the game. If you want to add anything, you have to be willing to sacrifice something. So what is it?
Adding 1/2 or 1/3 casting on top of Pact Magic is a no-go IMO, too complicated for MCing and too close to full-caster spell progression at low levels. The best you have a chance at getting is more invocations that give either at will or limited use casting of specific spells. Warlock doesn't get Shield on their spell list, in the UA they instead get medium armour proficiency so you'd still have to MC if you want to Shield-spam. (Though honestly I hope Shield gets a severe nerf b/c it is way too powerful).
as pointed out, warlocks no longer get medium armor. And you assume that recharging those top level spells actually happens. In my experience, it happens not much at all. I think you strongly overrate the power of warlocks in actual play. They look great on paper, but the reality is much different.
I've played 3 warlocks all in games with only 0 or 1 SR per day, and they were plenty powerful. So I can only imagine how powerful they are in games where people do SR regularly.
Did you only have martials in there? because in a game where the casters can dump their spell slots every encounter, and know that we're getting a long rest soon, the warlock falls behind. Yeah, EB spam makes you competitive with the martials, but the casters will crush you. I've played 3 warlocks in 2 groups with 4 different DMs. One short rest per day, for 4 leveled spells cast total is the norm for all of those.
That's a problem with fullcasters, not with warlock. But yes we did have full casters (in the 0 SR game), it was a party of : Oath of Knowledge Paladin, Drakewarden Ranger, Peace Cleric, my Genie-lock and Eloquence Bard. (Level 2-17)
But you see, the Cleric always had to save a high level slot either to teleport us home or to set up a safe resting place for us so couldn't dump them into combat they did use some in our final combat but they were all healing spells to keep our paladin alive. The Bard player wasn't much of an optimizer and took suboptimal spells like Geas and Dimension Door, and often ended up just upcasting Shatter or Dissonant Whispers in combat though at higher levels used Crown of Stars for half-way decent DPR but still not even close to the half-casters or my warlock. But even if the Bard had focused on control, the major threat in every combat was a Legendary monster so would have just used Legendary Resistances anyway.
In the 1 SR game, it was a party of: Thief Rogue, my GOO-lock, and a Lore Bard. (Level 5-6) We were supposed to also have a Barbarian join us but they dropped out at the last minute, so the lack of frontliners really hurt the Rogue. The Bard there had to spam Vicious Mockery and save spellslots for when it mattered, they got a couple of good Shatters off that hit 4 enemies, and spent a lot of 1st level spells on Healing our poor Rogue buddy. But nothing that really overshadowed my warlock, if anything my consisted 2x 1d10+1d8+4 EB overshadowed both of them and I killed the bulk of the enemies.
The last Warlock was a party of: my Hexblade (bowlock), a Battlesmith Artificer, a Barbarian, and I think it was a Glamour Bard (level 8) If anything I overtuned my Hexblade cause after he was charmed by a vampire and turned against the party he killed the Bard (encounter 8 of the mini-campaign) and the campaign sort of fell apart.
I think that the 3rd pact slot should be at 7th level and the 4th at 11th or 13th. 1 free casting of a patron spell at base level. Magical Cunning adds a bonus to intelligence skills your proficient in equal to your charisma modifier. And a new repeatable Invocation called Eldritch Magic? That l lets you select one spell equal to or lower than you can currently cast with pact slots and you can cast that spell once per long rest and it doesn’t use a pact slot.
And all subclasses get that change damage type that the GOO has. Fiend gets Fire, Celestial gets Radiant, Archfey gets force?(don’t know which damage type feels more Fey). And a bonus language Fiend gets Infernal or Abyssal, Celestial gets celestial, Fey get Sylvian?, GOO gets Deep Speech.
Are these additional spell shots recharged on short rest? If yes, then the initial problem here isn't fixed, it's just tilted far more in the Warlocks favor
If the spells are refreshed on long rest I guess this is... fine. It's about what we' have now if you presume 1 built in short rest per long rest. It's not interesting or exciting but I suppose fine. I don't think the Warlock needs Magical Cunning to exist in this way if Pact slots are increased, and anyway the Warlock should get the short shrift in skills, but can already add +3 additional proficiencies through an Arcana. The subclass damage type changes feels a little disingenuous to GOO, but again, separate from the question at hand.
There is no additional pact slots.
That's an interesting position. Sure, there are, technically no additional pact slots on the class graph under your changes. Practically, you're moving the third pact slot into a space that's still in the prime levels of a healthy campaign / the sweet spot of the game. The 4th and final slot goes from 17th (quick show of hands, who has done a lasting game that either reached or started at level 17...uh-huh) to 11-13, the natural conclusion of most games and many published adventures. So under your.. changes, would these spells be refreshed on short or long rest?
If it's short rest you've just given the Warlock either way more of their highest level spells than other more dedicated casters get at the same level while keeping the short rest variability problem that's the reason for this discussion in the first place. If it's per long rest; again, it sounds like an adequate fix but ultimately unsatisfactory.
Pact magic on it's own isn't enough. 1/2 caster plus pact magic imo, would be overpowered. 1/3 + pact magic I think is workable. It might need a bit of tuning, but I think the idea is promising.
What I think more likely to pass muster are invocations that allow you to cast <choose warlock spell> perf bonus times/day. I really like your 1/3 caster idea, but I don't think that WotC would bite on it. Realistically, I think warlocks will get told to get bent.
I think this is the most likely outcome, sadly, yes.
Okay here is the 1/3 spellcaster I did for UA5, but updated to attempt to work with UA 7 design goals. Pact Gift is a new feature that gives you either Pact of the Blade or Pact of the Tome invocation. Pact Gift is a prerequisite to take any Pact of invocations. This is to stop people from using a feat to grab one of the former Pact Boons. Pact slots are gained at 2nd level with the Pact Magic feature. Pact Slots are no longer Spell slots per se. It is literally magical energy granted to you from your patron. They can be used to cast spells and for features that specifically name them. Thus they can’t be used by Sorcerers font of magic to become sorcerers points or any feature that only names spell slots. They could be used by a Sorcerer/Warlock to cast either their Sorcerer spells or their Warlock spells. Invocations would be reworded to mention both spell slots and pact slots. Pact of the Tome would no longer grant an additional spell slot and Book of Ancient Secrets would be an invocation again. Eldritch smite would continue to work only on Pact slots. Even with them already having low level ritual spells I would bring back Eldritch Sight and Beast Speech invocations. It should be up to the player if they would rather prepare the spell or have it as an invocation. There would be no benefit to do both, but having the option between the two is awesome imo. Additionally I would limit the amount short rest recharge of Pact Slots to either proficiency bonus times or half proficiency bonus times per long rest.
Warlock
Level
Class Features
Invocations
Cantrips
Spells Prepared
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Pact Slots
Pact Slot Level
1st
Spellcasting, Pact Gift
1
2
2
2
-
-
-
-
-
2nd
Pact Magic
2
2
3
2
-
-
-
1
1st
3rd
Warlock Subclass
2
2
4
2
-
-
-
2
2nd
4th
ASI
2
3
5
3
-
-
-
2
2nd
5th
-
3
3
6
3
-
-
-
2
3rd
6th
Subclass Feature
3
3
7
3
-
-
-
2
3rd
7th
-
4
3
8
4
2
-
-
2
4th
8th
ASI
4
3
9
4
2
-
-
2
4th
9th
Contact Patron
5
3
10
4
2
-
-
2
5th
10th
Subclass Feature
5
4
10
4
3
-
-
2
5th
11th
Mystic Arcanum 6th level Spell
5
4
11
4
3
-
-
2
5th
12th
ASI
6
4
11
4
3
-
-
2
5th
13th
MA 7th level Spell
6
4
12
4
3
2
-
2
5th
14th
Subclass Feature
6
4
12
4
3
2
-
2
5th
15th
MA 8th level Spell
7
4
13
4
3
2
-
2
5th
16th
ASI
7
4
13
4
3
3
-
2
5th
17th
MA 9th level Spell
7
4
14
4
3
3
-
3
5th
18th
-
8
4
14
4
3
3
-
3
5th
19th
ASI
8
4
15
4
3
3
1
3
5th
20th
Eldritch Master
8
4
15
4
3
3
1
3
5th
If you wanted another option would be to give pact magic at level 1 like normal and start the 1/3 casting by giving spell casting at 3rd level as it is done for other subclasses that have 1/3 casting progression. I prefer the way I did it because it doesn’t feel like it came out of nowhere, but there is a story to tell with either path. My path tells the story of someone who already had magic but made a deal to gain more power than they naturally would have had. The other way tell the story of someone which no magic gaining power from another being and awakening their own magical power. Honestly with either you could also say the spell slots are power being granted from the patron as well. You are free to flavor the slots however you desire.
This table looks pretty grokkable to me (how did you make it?) and is roughly what I had in mind for 1/3 + Pact + Invocations. I think they're okay with Warlocks having both Blade and Tome now.
The problem with fullcasters isn't going to go away and needs to be accounted for. Martials are getting better with mastery. Warlocks are treading water with the most recent changes. The fact is, warlock casters have been asking for more spells. WOTC says as much. They say they want to deliver. What they are proposing, is half of a current magic item as a class feature. That doesn't cut it.
That said 1/3 casting welded on, solves a lot of problems and creates none. You say that it's overpowered, but adding on some low level slots at a slow rate...I'm sorry I don't see it. At the rate 1/3 casters get extra spell slots, and when those slots start coming online...it's just not an issue. A wizard would have:
4 3 3 1, and 11 leveled spells.
A 1/3+pact would be:
4 2 0 2, 8 leveled spells
Three 3rd level spells is a pretty big deal. Now, the warlock gets an extra 4th level spell, which is also a big deal, but I would argue the quantity of the 2nd and 3rds is better. Now, I hear you, that's straight out of the box, on a short rest, the warlock recharges both 4th level slots, which is true. Wizard has arcane recovery and recovers slots equalling up to 3. The advantage is to the warlock, but it's close, and I would say close enough that the wizard is still ahead. This is with 1/3 caster added on. Without, it's no contest.
The warlock REQUIRES a second short rest to stay close to the wizard. Now, for resourceless casts, the warlock has the edge with EB. I won't deny that. But generally speaking, the wizard isn't going to need a second short rest, nor will it need to resort to cantrip spam. Additionally, I'd argue that those extra 1st and 2nd level slots are fun changers rather than game changers, particularly with the warlock's spell list. It gives the warlock some options, but isn't going to break anything. It would be comparable in power to a full caster (at level 7), but not in flexibility. As the levels increase, warlock's going to fall behind because, mystic arcanum is just not a substitute for spell casting at higher levels.
I'm interested in why you think 1/3 casting would be overpowered.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
The warlock REQUIRES a second short rest to stay close to the wizard.
What you are missing is that the Warlock is not supposed to be close to a Wizard in terms of spellcasting. The Wizard is a full spellcaster that gets far far far less class features than the warlock. Wizard doesn't get to rival melee in terms of single-target damage (Warlock does), Wizard doesn't get any at-will spells (Warlock can get like 6 now).
If you want spellcasting to rival a Wizard you have to give up all your at will spells and your unlimited melee-level single-target damage.
Sorry haven’t read the whole thread, but I don’t think 1/3 caster works. 1/3 casters are a subclass feature, not a base class feature. Full and Half casting is for base classes. Unless you meant that all warlock subclasses would be where the spellcasting would come in.
Sorry just skimming the thread while at work
actually, I don't think it's been suggested yet to add spellcasting as a subclass feature. I know that's not actually your recommendation, but it's novel to think for a moment which patrons might be more deserving of 1/3-caster slots while others make due with base class pact casting...
What i was saying was you can’t have 1/3 casting as part of base warlock. 1/3 casting is not for the base class. Only full and half. Of the only two 1/3 casters in the game (EK and AT) it is a subclass. If you follow the 1/3 casting progression starting at level 1 you would cap out at 4, 3, 3, 1 (1st-4th level slots at 17th level instead of 19.
So I was saying if you wanted 1/3 progression, if you follow EK and AT it wouldn’t start until level three as part of the subclass so all warlock subclasses would get 1/3 casting not the base class.
Personally I think pact magic could stay as in UA but maybe up the slot cap to 5 or 6 and have Magical Cunning restore a flat 2 slots 1/LR. Then build out Invocations to have not only At Will spells, but also spells that are CHA mod/LR as well as once per LR. Your pact slots would benefit from those spells that upcast well, while low level spells that don’t upcast, like Shield etc, have limited use to maintain balance.
edit: and I would be fine with warlocks regaining slots per LR not SR with Magical Cunning helping get those number of casts up, augmented with invocations as I mentioned above
The warlock REQUIRES a second short rest to stay close to the wizard.
What you are missing is that the Warlock is not supposed to be close to a Wizard in terms of spellcasting. The Wizard is a full spellcaster that gets far far far less class features than the warlock. Wizard doesn't get to rival melee in terms of single-target damage (Warlock does), Wizard doesn't get any at-will spells (Warlock can get like 6 now).
If you want spellcasting to rival a Wizard you have to give up all your at will spells and your unlimited melee-level single-target damage.
I'm not missing that. Those spellslots give the wizard far more performance than the warlock gets in round to round in every manner.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Personally, I think the designers just need to allow the 3rd pact slot to show up 3-4 levels sooner. At 7th level the full casters have 11 spells per day, and the half casters have 7, plus whatever other class features they normally have - which isn't always just "moar spells", as the druid and bard can attest to. These might be the best points of comparison as they also have more limited spell lists than other casters. I don't think having that 3rd pact slot appearing at level 7 is all that game breaking.
Alternatively, they can dip into other options like from the last playtest, where the Fiendlock could cast 1 spell from the patron list for free every long rest, or they could add in some evocations that gave more high level bite to Pact of the Tome to make it truly feel the most spellcastery of the Warlock pacts....and no, 3 bonus cantrips, a single long rest 1st level spell slot, and 2 1st level rituals doesn't compare to the cumulative effects of the Bladelock invocations. It probably should be a separate invocation though, but something for Pact of the Tome that acted like an improved version of the bonus spell slot feats such a Fey Touched (to make up for not getting a stat boost from the invocation), maybe 2 long rest spells off the patron list 1 level lower than the level of the pact slots or something.
Being able to learn more than 1st level rituals might help too.
And get rid of that obsession with only being able to get stuff back by being completely empty.
The problem with fullcasters isn't going to go away and needs to be accounted for. Martials are getting better with mastery. Warlocks are treading water with the most recent changes. The fact is, warlock casters have been asking for more spells. WOTC says as much. They say they want to deliver. What they are proposing, is half of a current magic item as a class feature. That doesn't cut it.
That said 1/3 casting welded on, solves a lot of problems and creates none. You say that it's overpowered, but adding on some low level slots at a slow rate...I'm sorry I don't see it. At the rate 1/3 casters get extra spell slots, and when those slots start coming online...it's just not an issue. A wizard would have:
4 3 3 1, and 11 leveled spells.
A 1/3+pact would be:
4 2 0 2, 8 leveled spells
Three 3rd level spells is a pretty big deal. Now, the warlock gets an extra 4th level spell, which is also a big deal, but I would argue the quantity of the 2nd and 3rds is better. Now, I hear you, that's straight out of the box, on a short rest, the warlock recharges both 4th level slots, which is true. Wizard has arcane recovery and recovers slots equalling up to 3. The advantage is to the warlock, but it's close, and I would say close enough that the wizard is still ahead. This is with 1/3 caster added on. Without, it's no contest.
The warlock REQUIRES a second short rest to stay close to the wizard. Now, for resourceless casts, the warlock has the edge with EB. I won't deny that. But generally speaking, the wizard isn't going to need a second short rest, nor will it need to resort to cantrip spam. Additionally, I'd argue that those extra 1st and 2nd level slots are fun changers rather than game changers, particularly with the warlock's spell list. It gives the warlock some options, but isn't going to break anything. It would be comparable in power to a full caster (at level 7), but not in flexibility. As the levels increase, warlock's going to fall behind because, mystic arcanum is just not a substitute for spell casting at higher levels.
I'm interested in why you think 1/3 casting would be overpowered.
Correction, mathematically THIS warlock only needs 1 short rest to "keep up" with wizard at all levels except 8,9, and 10. (not accounting for the more limited spell list.)
Though I feel the real issue is the dip is still going to be the most prevalent. Level 5 just isn't juicy enough for some people even with the new invocations. I almost feel agonizing blast should be made level 5, but that wouldn't solve the blade dip. Which may not be as bad because feats are going to bump strength/dex anyway.
Warlocks are treading water with the most recent changes.
How did you come to this conclusion? UA7 massively buffed Warlocks so that they are broken now. They are equally powerful as a caster as a bard, and more powerful as a martial than a fighter.
If we use the purchase cost of a spellslot in the Sorcerer's Font of Magic as a representation of it "power level" then this is the total spell power of each type of caster assuming 1 SR per day (ignoring spells of 6 level+ since there is no scoring for them and Warlock gets the same as other casters until super high level):
Warlocks are treading water with the most recent changes.
How did you come to this conclusion? UA7 massively buffed Warlocks so that they are broken now. They are equally powerful as a caster as a bard, and more powerful as a martial than a fighter.
Because if you slice the data fine enough, you'll always be able to find where someone else has the tiniest sliver of a crumb more than you.
The warlock REQUIRES a second short rest to stay close to the wizard.
What you are missing is that the Warlock is not supposed to be close to a Wizard in terms of spellcasting. The Wizard is a full spellcaster that gets far far far less class features than the warlock. Wizard doesn't get to rival melee in terms of single-target damage (Warlock does), Wizard doesn't get any at-will spells (Warlock can get like 6 now).
If you want spellcasting to rival a Wizard you have to give up all your at will spells and your unlimited melee-level single-target damage.
What at-will spells does Warlock even have in the latest UA that is even worth talking about? Or what at-will spells does warlock have in 5E that is even worth talking about? Past Fiendish Vigor, most of those 'at-will' spells had zero utility in combat, or gave Warlock the ability to cast spells that other classes got as rituals for only knowing them or having them prepared while Warlock was spending Invocations to get the same.
5E warlock has the following at will spells
Mage Armor (Armor of Shadows), for the price of an invocation, you can cast something a Wizard can cast with a 1st level spell slot and lasts 8 hours... for something that gives the same AC as a piece of studded armor +1.
Levitate (Ascendant Step), for the price of an invocation, you can cast a 2nd level concentration spell that holds up to 500 pounds in the air... as a 9th level warlock. Fly is a 3rd level spell available at level 5... Wizard and Sorcerer have 5th level slots by level 9...
Speak with Animals (Beast Speech), for the price of an invocation, you can cast something a Druid or Totem barbarian can cast as a ritual, and multiple classes can cast as a 1st level spell.
Hold Monster (Chains of Carceri), "at will", except once per long rest and only affects Celestial, Fiends or Elementals, making it quiet situational.
Detect Magic (Eldritch Sight), another invocation for an "at will" ritual spell. Worse yet, it's concentration, so bye bye hex, if you're using that.
False Life (Fiendish Vigor), you basically can go into any combat with 8 temporary HP. Has it uses but really only when taking damage, you usually want to avoid doing that in the first place as a Warlock. Can increase survivability but definitely not a must have.
Disguise Self (Mask of Many Faces), as a 1st level spell which lasts an hour, there are some benefits to this invocation for RP, nothing for combat tho.
Alter Self (Master of Myriad Forms), with a level 15 requirement, almost never hitting this in 99% of campaigns, it is concentration but by level 15, you shouldn't be using hex any more anyway.
Silent Image (Misty Visions), it's a 10 minute 1st level spell, so this can have some bonus but you won't be recasting with it's vocal component and it also uses concentration
Jump (Otherworldly Leap), well it's a 1st level spell that lasts a minute and allows the targets to jump further, you can't get this until warlock level 9, by which point even Warlock has had the fly spell for 4 levels, Wizard and Sorcerer too. This really isn't adding much except avoiding the concentration cost of Fly, which at level 9, not the biggest concern any more for Warlock. For warlock, obviously fly using a pact slot is a big cost, for Wizards and Sorcerers using a 3rd level slot? not so much.
Invisibility (Shroud of Shadow), for level 15, this actually sucks bad. Yes Invisibility can be very good but level 15, really? You're gunna cast Invisibility more than the 3 times that a wizard has 2nd level spell slots for?
Arcane Eye (Visions of Distant Realms), probably the only at-will spell invocation where level 15 makes sense, this is good but so late in the game that it'll almost never get used.
Speak with Dead (Whispers of the Grave), probably the one case where spending an invocation at will is really beating spell slots of a wizard/sorcerer/etc, if you want to talk to 5 dead creatures. It's level 9 mind you, so quiet late game for most campaigns, it is also not combat.
----
There is a reason that Warlock (with other classes) has been given Ritual spells in the latest UA, and that is because the at-will spells really underperform compared to ritual spells. Multiple at-will spells were removed from warlock as invocations precisely for that reason.
When people say, Warlock is supposed to be a lesser caster or half-caster than the other casters it stills begs the question of what their other half is meant to be. Personally I'd be quiet fine with it being pact casting/half-pact but the latest UA has ruined that by making pacts, invocations. Warlock's missing half can be filled in with invocations but none of the 5E invocations did that, some were tax (like Agonizing Blast, which still is) or were just woefully underpowered to be replacing a lack of class features.
Invocations need buffing up, more so the weaker ones, and the at-will ones were so lackluster, the game is literally better with most of them just being replaced by Ritual Casting.
Thanks for formatting this awesome table! I think that there is an argument to be made for adding extra spell slots but I completely understand why the Warlock isn't based around a typical half-caster or 1/3rd caster format. Instead, I'd suggest that spells below 5th level get a treatment similar to Mystic Arcanum. I call this feature Minor Arcanum and it functions the same way as Maystic Arcanum but for low level slots, adding a single 1-per long rest cast to each spell level 1-4 once players gain the next Pact Slot level. It's a minor boost that helps players contribute in small ways a few times per day particularly out of combat where a low leveled spell can solve a problem but losing a Pact Slot would leave the party in a bind. And just like Mystic arcanum, players can adjust their selections each time they level up - so you don't need to be permanently stuck with 1st level spells taking up your Spells Prepared list at higher levels.
Warlock
Level
Class Features
Invocations
Cantrips
Spells Prepared
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
Pact Slots
Pact Slot Level
1st
Spellcasting, Pact Gift
1
2
2
-
-
-
-
1
1st
2nd
Pact Magic
3
2
3
-
-
-
-
1
1st
3rd
Warlock Subclass
3
2
4
1
-
-
-
2
2nd
4th
ASI
3
3
5
1
-
-
-
2
2nd
5th
-
5
3
6
1
1
-
-
2
3rd
6th
Subclass Feature
5
3
7
1
1
-
-
2
3rd
7th
-
6
3
8
1
1
1
-
2
4th
8th
ASI
6
3
9
1
1
1
-
2
4th
9th
Contact Patron
7
3
10
1
1
1
1
2
5th
10th
Subclass Feature
7
4
10
1
1
1
1
2
5th
11th
Mystic Arcanum 6th level Spell
7
4
11
1
1
1
1
3
5th
12th
ASI
8
4
11
1
1
1
1
3
5th
13th
MA 7th level Spell
8
4
12
1
1
1
1
3
5th
14th
Subclass Feature
8
4
12
1
1
1
1
3
5th
15th
MA 8th level Spell
9
4
13
1
1
1
1
3
5th
16th
ASI
9
4
13
1
1
1
1
3
5th
17th
MA 9th level Spell
9
4
14
1
1
1
1
4
5th
18th
-
10
4
14
1
1
1
1
4
5th
19th
ASI
10
4
15
1
1
1
1
4
5th
20th
Eldritch Master
10
4
15
1
1
1
1
4
5th
3rd level: Minor Arcanum. You preserve the remnants of your Patron's magic to cast lesser spells without bearing the full might of their mystical power. At 3rd level you may select one 1st level spell from the Warlock spell list. You gain new Minor Arcanum spell slections at level 5 (2nd level spell), level 7 (3rd level spell) and level 9 (4th level spell). You regain all uses of your Minor Arcanum after a Long Rrest. When you gain a new level in this class you may switch one Minor Arcanum for another spell of the same level from the Warlock spell list.
If having access to low level spells without wasting your scaling pact slot is an issue then why not buff Pact of the Tome with invocations? Pact of the Blade is pretty good, maybe too good, and much stronger with Eldritch Smite, Thirsting Blade and Lifedrinker Invocations. Maybe Invocations can be added that give PotT an additional 1st level slot and a 2nd level slot when you summon your Book of Shadows?
If you are a melee focused PotB Hexblade and want to cast Shield without wasting your Pact Slots then pick up PotT. It gives you at least one casting per SR/LR. If you want to be focused more on casting and EB then invocations that might give an extra 1st and 2nd level slot (ones that may or may not benefit from upcasting) from Book of Shadows could help out.
I’m just not sure 1/3 or 1/2 casting has any chance of happening with WotC the way they have been going. But adding in some new invocations might be doable.
Warlocks are treading water with the most recent changes.
How did you come to this conclusion? UA7 massively buffed Warlocks so that they are broken now. They are equally powerful as a caster as a bard, and more powerful as a martial than a fighter.
Your own math shows a major gap at levels 8 and 11, which I presume carries from a little before and after. And what most people complain about is exactly that gap, starting from level 7 and working up several levels from there.
I personally don't think the Warlock is broken, nor do I think it's unviable. But there is an obvious donut hole in capability that needs to be addressed, but has been missed by the development team despite numerous people pointing directly at it.
How did you come to this conclusion? UA7 massively buffed Warlocks so that they are broken now. They are equally powerful as a caster as a bard, and more powerful as a martial than a fighter.
Doesn't matter. Or rather, only "true" under extremely specific circumstances in each case.
The only reason people consider Blade Pact "overpowered" is because of the third attack at 11th level and how it interacts with the overabundance of Blade-specific invocations you're required to take to make Blade pact 'good'. Remove that third attack and Blade pact goes back to being 100% balls-out pointless next to spending half the resources on Eldritch Blast for the same or better combat performance out to 120 - or 600 - feet. Blade warlocks have always needed to burn every single resource they have just to barely keep pace with Agonizing Doink. Now that Blade warlocks can actually get the sort of benefit they deserve from expending essentially all their Invocations to improve their swordplay, people are calling it 'broken'. Nor does the warlock have all the other combat resources a fighter or barbarian does - it has a good offense but not much HP and weak defenses.
As for your "Warlocks are amazing casters now!" spell math? It relies on blowing every invocation the warlock gets on Extra Spells, as well as strictly adhering to Ideal Rest Levels in daily exploration. If the warlock does not rest multiple times in an absolutely perfect way, regaining the theoretical maximum number of resources with each rest? If they don't use every Invocation they have on cramming spells into every last hole they can fill? They do not come close to approaching your "equal to a full caster" mark.
This "warlock" is an anemic half-assed retread of the 2014 model with effectively zero useful or positive changes The only even remotely interesting thing about this rebake is folding Pact Boons into Invocations and allowing warlocks to take more than one if they want, but y'all have spent, like...six threads now complaining about that too so it'll be gone by the time the books drop.
This UA7 warlock is weak, bad, feels bad to play, feels bad to read, and should just generally feel bad about itself.
As for your "Warlocks are amazing casters now!" spell math? It relies on blowing every invocation the warlock gets on Extra Spells, as well as strictly adhering to Ideal Rest Levels in daily exploration.
Sorry but no, I didn't include any invocations that grant additional spells, and I only assumed 1 SR per LR. In a dungeon crawl or long adventuring days it is common to get 2 SRs which bumps Warlock up above all other casters considerably.
As for why Pact of the Blade is broken now it is the combination of:
free at will access to any melee martial weapon on demand
Weapon Mastery + Proficiency built in -> this plus the above gives them better flexibility and utility from weapon masteries than the Fighter in tier 1 & 2 despite Fighter supposedly being the master of weapons.
3rd attack at level 11 -> this makes them just as good at fighting as fighters.
Damage multiplying spells -> Spirit Shroud is just vastly superior to any damage buff any other martial gets.
Ability to pick up extra feats with an invocation -> This mean NO they don't have worse hit points than a Fighter, they actually have better hit points because they can easily pick up Tough, it also means NO they don't have terrible AC because they can easily pick up Lightly Armoured for Medius Armour + Shields. So by Level 2 they easily rival a Fighter for melee combat, and outpace them at ranged combat.
I would never play a Fighter if the UA 7 Warlock is released as is. Because everything I might want out of Fighter I can do better with Warlock.
"most of those 'at-will' spells had zero utility in combat"
Sorry but isn't the reason casters are uber powerful and utterly outshine martials in every way, because they have spells they can use outside of combat to solve every problem the party might face, while martials have to sit there eating potato chips doing nothing at all until initiative is rolled?
In which case all those at-will utility spells are a hugely powerful boost.
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That's a problem with fullcasters, not with warlock. But yes we did have full casters (in the 0 SR game), it was a party of :
Oath of Knowledge Paladin, Drakewarden Ranger, Peace Cleric, my Genie-lock and Eloquence Bard. (Level 2-17)
But you see, the Cleric always had to save a high level slot either to teleport us home or to set up a safe resting place for us so couldn't dump them into combat they did use some in our final combat but they were all healing spells to keep our paladin alive. The Bard player wasn't much of an optimizer and took suboptimal spells like Geas and Dimension Door, and often ended up just upcasting Shatter or Dissonant Whispers in combat though at higher levels used Crown of Stars for half-way decent DPR but still not even close to the half-casters or my warlock. But even if the Bard had focused on control, the major threat in every combat was a Legendary monster so would have just used Legendary Resistances anyway.
In the 1 SR game, it was a party of:
Thief Rogue, my GOO-lock, and a Lore Bard. (Level 5-6)
We were supposed to also have a Barbarian join us but they dropped out at the last minute, so the lack of frontliners really hurt the Rogue. The Bard there had to spam Vicious Mockery and save spellslots for when it mattered, they got a couple of good Shatters off that hit 4 enemies, and spent a lot of 1st level spells on Healing our poor Rogue buddy. But nothing that really overshadowed my warlock, if anything my consisted 2x 1d10+1d8+4 EB overshadowed both of them and I killed the bulk of the enemies.
The last Warlock was a party of:
my Hexblade (bowlock), a Battlesmith Artificer, a Barbarian, and I think it was a Glamour Bard (level 8)
If anything I overtuned my Hexblade cause after he was charmed by a vampire and turned against the party he killed the Bard (encounter 8 of the mini-campaign) and the campaign sort of fell apart.
That's an interesting position. Sure, there are, technically no additional pact slots on the class graph under your changes. Practically, you're moving the third pact slot into a space that's still in the prime levels of a healthy campaign / the sweet spot of the game. The 4th and final slot goes from 17th (quick show of hands, who has done a lasting game that either reached or started at level 17...uh-huh) to 11-13, the natural conclusion of most games and many published adventures. So under your.. changes, would these spells be refreshed on short or long rest?
If it's short rest you've just given the Warlock either way more of their highest level spells than other more dedicated casters get at the same level while keeping the short rest variability problem that's the reason for this discussion in the first place. If it's per long rest; again, it sounds like an adequate fix but ultimately unsatisfactory.
I think this is the most likely outcome, sadly, yes.
This table looks pretty grokkable to me (how did you make it?) and is roughly what I had in mind for 1/3 + Pact + Invocations. I think they're okay with Warlocks having both Blade and Tome now.
The problem with fullcasters isn't going to go away and needs to be accounted for. Martials are getting better with mastery. Warlocks are treading water with the most recent changes. The fact is, warlock casters have been asking for more spells. WOTC says as much. They say they want to deliver. What they are proposing, is half of a current magic item as a class feature. That doesn't cut it.
That said 1/3 casting welded on, solves a lot of problems and creates none. You say that it's overpowered, but adding on some low level slots at a slow rate...I'm sorry I don't see it. At the rate 1/3 casters get extra spell slots, and when those slots start coming online...it's just not an issue. A wizard would have:
4 3 3 1, and 11 leveled spells.
A 1/3+pact would be:
4 2 0 2, 8 leveled spells
Three 3rd level spells is a pretty big deal. Now, the warlock gets an extra 4th level spell, which is also a big deal, but I would argue the quantity of the 2nd and 3rds is better. Now, I hear you, that's straight out of the box, on a short rest, the warlock recharges both 4th level slots, which is true. Wizard has arcane recovery and recovers slots equalling up to 3. The advantage is to the warlock, but it's close, and I would say close enough that the wizard is still ahead. This is with 1/3 caster added on. Without, it's no contest.
The warlock REQUIRES a second short rest to stay close to the wizard. Now, for resourceless casts, the warlock has the edge with EB. I won't deny that. But generally speaking, the wizard isn't going to need a second short rest, nor will it need to resort to cantrip spam. Additionally, I'd argue that those extra 1st and 2nd level slots are fun changers rather than game changers, particularly with the warlock's spell list. It gives the warlock some options, but isn't going to break anything. It would be comparable in power to a full caster (at level 7), but not in flexibility. As the levels increase, warlock's going to fall behind because, mystic arcanum is just not a substitute for spell casting at higher levels.
I'm interested in why you think 1/3 casting would be overpowered.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
What you are missing is that the Warlock is not supposed to be close to a Wizard in terms of spellcasting. The Wizard is a full spellcaster that gets far far far less class features than the warlock. Wizard doesn't get to rival melee in terms of single-target damage (Warlock does), Wizard doesn't get any at-will spells (Warlock can get like 6 now).
If you want spellcasting to rival a Wizard you have to give up all your at will spells and your unlimited melee-level single-target damage.
What i was saying was you can’t have 1/3 casting as part of base warlock. 1/3 casting is not for the base class. Only full and half. Of the only two 1/3 casters in the game (EK and AT) it is a subclass. If you follow the 1/3 casting progression starting at level 1 you would cap out at 4, 3, 3, 1 (1st-4th level slots at 17th level instead of 19.
So I was saying if you wanted 1/3 progression, if you follow EK and AT it wouldn’t start until level three as part of the subclass so all warlock subclasses would get 1/3 casting not the base class.
Personally I think pact magic could stay as in UA but maybe up the slot cap to 5 or 6 and have Magical Cunning restore a flat 2 slots 1/LR. Then build out Invocations to have not only At Will spells, but also spells that are CHA mod/LR as well as once per LR. Your pact slots would benefit from those spells that upcast well, while low level spells that don’t upcast, like Shield etc, have limited use to maintain balance.
edit: and I would be fine with warlocks regaining slots per LR not SR with Magical Cunning helping get those number of casts up, augmented with invocations as I mentioned above
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Welp, since pact magic is here to stay, guess I’m loading up on feats that give out free spells. Rune Shaper is a nasty one…
I'm not missing that. Those spellslots give the wizard far more performance than the warlock gets in round to round in every manner.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Personally, I think the designers just need to allow the 3rd pact slot to show up 3-4 levels sooner. At 7th level the full casters have 11 spells per day, and the half casters have 7, plus whatever other class features they normally have - which isn't always just "moar spells", as the druid and bard can attest to. These might be the best points of comparison as they also have more limited spell lists than other casters. I don't think having that 3rd pact slot appearing at level 7 is all that game breaking.
Alternatively, they can dip into other options like from the last playtest, where the Fiendlock could cast 1 spell from the patron list for free every long rest, or they could add in some evocations that gave more high level bite to Pact of the Tome to make it truly feel the most spellcastery of the Warlock pacts....and no, 3 bonus cantrips, a single long rest 1st level spell slot, and 2 1st level rituals doesn't compare to the cumulative effects of the Bladelock invocations. It probably should be a separate invocation though, but something for Pact of the Tome that acted like an improved version of the bonus spell slot feats such a Fey Touched (to make up for not getting a stat boost from the invocation), maybe 2 long rest spells off the patron list 1 level lower than the level of the pact slots or something.
Being able to learn more than 1st level rituals might help too.
And get rid of that obsession with only being able to get stuff back by being completely empty.
Correction, mathematically THIS warlock only needs 1 short rest to "keep up" with wizard at all levels except 8,9, and 10. (not accounting for the more limited spell list.)
Though I feel the real issue is the dip is still going to be the most prevalent. Level 5 just isn't juicy enough for some people even with the new invocations. I almost feel agonizing blast should be made level 5, but that wouldn't solve the blade dip. Which may not be as bad because feats are going to bump strength/dex anyway.
How did you come to this conclusion? UA7 massively buffed Warlocks so that they are broken now. They are equally powerful as a caster as a bard, and more powerful as a martial than a fighter.
If we use the purchase cost of a spellslot in the Sorcerer's Font of Magic as a representation of it "power level" then this is the total spell power of each type of caster assuming 1 SR per day (ignoring spells of 6 level+ since there is no scoring for them and Warlock gets the same as other casters until super high level):
Level 3
Wizard - 17 (includes Arcane Recovery)
Sorcerer - 17 (includes Sorcery Points)
Bard/Cleric/Druid - 14
Warlock (2014) - 12
Warlock (UA7) - 15
Warlock (2014 + 1/2 caster) - 18
Level 5
Wizard - 27 (includes Arcane Recovery)
Sorcerer - 27 (includes Sorcery Points)
Bard/Cleric/Druid - 22
Warlock (2014) - 20
Warlock (UA7) - 25
Warlock (2014 + 1/2 caster) - 34
Level 8
Wizard - 50 (includes Arcane Recovery)
Sorcerer - 52 (includes Sorcery Points)
Bard/Cleric/Druid - 44
Warlock (2014) - 24
Warlock (UA7) - 30
Warlock (2014 + 1/2 caster) - 41
Level 11
Wizard - 73 (includes Arcane Recovery)
Sorcerer - 75 (includes Sorcery Points)
Bard/Cleric/Druid - 64
Warlock (2014) - 42
Warlock (UA7) - 56
Warlock (2014 + 1/2 caster) - 55 (no increasing beyond 2 pact slots)
Level 17
Wizard - 77 (includes Arcane Recovery)
Sorcerer - 81 (includes Sorcery Points)
Bard/Cleric/Druid - 64
Warlock (2014) - 56
Warlock (UA7) - 70
Warlock (2014 + 1/2 caster) - 85 (no increasing beyond 2 pact slots)
Because if you slice the data fine enough, you'll always be able to find where someone else has the tiniest sliver of a crumb more than you.
What at-will spells does Warlock even have in the latest UA that is even worth talking about? Or what at-will spells does warlock have in 5E that is even worth talking about? Past Fiendish Vigor, most of those 'at-will' spells had zero utility in combat, or gave Warlock the ability to cast spells that other classes got as rituals for only knowing them or having them prepared while Warlock was spending Invocations to get the same.
5E warlock has the following at will spells
Mage Armor (Armor of Shadows), for the price of an invocation, you can cast something a Wizard can cast with a 1st level spell slot and lasts 8 hours... for something that gives the same AC as a piece of studded armor +1.
Levitate (Ascendant Step), for the price of an invocation, you can cast a 2nd level concentration spell that holds up to 500 pounds in the air... as a 9th level warlock. Fly is a 3rd level spell available at level 5... Wizard and Sorcerer have 5th level slots by level 9...
Speak with Animals (Beast Speech), for the price of an invocation, you can cast something a Druid or Totem barbarian can cast as a ritual, and multiple classes can cast as a 1st level spell.
Hold Monster (Chains of Carceri), "at will", except once per long rest and only affects Celestial, Fiends or Elementals, making it quiet situational.
Detect Magic (Eldritch Sight), another invocation for an "at will" ritual spell. Worse yet, it's concentration, so bye bye hex, if you're using that.
False Life (Fiendish Vigor), you basically can go into any combat with 8 temporary HP. Has it uses but really only when taking damage, you usually want to avoid doing that in the first place as a Warlock. Can increase survivability but definitely not a must have.
Disguise Self (Mask of Many Faces), as a 1st level spell which lasts an hour, there are some benefits to this invocation for RP, nothing for combat tho.
Alter Self (Master of Myriad Forms), with a level 15 requirement, almost never hitting this in 99% of campaigns, it is concentration but by level 15, you shouldn't be using hex any more anyway.
Silent Image (Misty Visions), it's a 10 minute 1st level spell, so this can have some bonus but you won't be recasting with it's vocal component and it also uses concentration
Jump (Otherworldly Leap), well it's a 1st level spell that lasts a minute and allows the targets to jump further, you can't get this until warlock level 9, by which point even Warlock has had the fly spell for 4 levels, Wizard and Sorcerer too. This really isn't adding much except avoiding the concentration cost of Fly, which at level 9, not the biggest concern any more for Warlock. For warlock, obviously fly using a pact slot is a big cost, for Wizards and Sorcerers using a 3rd level slot? not so much.
Invisibility (Shroud of Shadow), for level 15, this actually sucks bad. Yes Invisibility can be very good but level 15, really? You're gunna cast Invisibility more than the 3 times that a wizard has 2nd level spell slots for?
Arcane Eye (Visions of Distant Realms), probably the only at-will spell invocation where level 15 makes sense, this is good but so late in the game that it'll almost never get used.
Speak with Dead (Whispers of the Grave), probably the one case where spending an invocation at will is really beating spell slots of a wizard/sorcerer/etc, if you want to talk to 5 dead creatures. It's level 9 mind you, so quiet late game for most campaigns, it is also not combat.
----
There is a reason that Warlock (with other classes) has been given Ritual spells in the latest UA, and that is because the at-will spells really underperform compared to ritual spells. Multiple at-will spells were removed from warlock as invocations precisely for that reason.
When people say, Warlock is supposed to be a lesser caster or half-caster than the other casters it stills begs the question of what their other half is meant to be. Personally I'd be quiet fine with it being pact casting/half-pact but the latest UA has ruined that by making pacts, invocations. Warlock's missing half can be filled in with invocations but none of the 5E invocations did that, some were tax (like Agonizing Blast, which still is) or were just woefully underpowered to be replacing a lack of class features.
Invocations need buffing up, more so the weaker ones, and the at-will ones were so lackluster, the game is literally better with most of them just being replaced by Ritual Casting.
Thanks for formatting this awesome table! I think that there is an argument to be made for adding extra spell slots but I completely understand why the Warlock isn't based around a typical half-caster or 1/3rd caster format. Instead, I'd suggest that spells below 5th level get a treatment similar to Mystic Arcanum. I call this feature Minor Arcanum and it functions the same way as Maystic Arcanum but for low level slots, adding a single 1-per long rest cast to each spell level 1-4 once players gain the next Pact Slot level. It's a minor boost that helps players contribute in small ways a few times per day particularly out of combat where a low leveled spell can solve a problem but losing a Pact Slot would leave the party in a bind. And just like Mystic arcanum, players can adjust their selections each time they level up - so you don't need to be permanently stuck with 1st level spells taking up your Spells Prepared list at higher levels.
3rd level: Minor Arcanum. You preserve the remnants of your Patron's magic to cast lesser spells without bearing the full might of their mystical power. At 3rd level you may select one 1st level spell from the Warlock spell list. You gain new Minor Arcanum spell slections at level 5 (2nd level spell), level 7 (3rd level spell) and level 9 (4th level spell). You regain all uses of your Minor Arcanum after a Long Rrest. When you gain a new level in this class you may switch one Minor Arcanum for another spell of the same level from the Warlock spell list.
If having access to low level spells without wasting your scaling pact slot is an issue then why not buff Pact of the Tome with invocations? Pact of the Blade is pretty good, maybe too good, and much stronger with Eldritch Smite, Thirsting Blade and Lifedrinker Invocations. Maybe Invocations can be added that give PotT an additional 1st level slot and a 2nd level slot when you summon your Book of Shadows?
If you are a melee focused PotB Hexblade and want to cast Shield without wasting your Pact Slots then pick up PotT. It gives you at least one casting per SR/LR. If you want to be focused more on casting and EB then invocations that might give an extra 1st and 2nd level slot (ones that may or may not benefit from upcasting) from Book of Shadows could help out.
I’m just not sure 1/3 or 1/2 casting has any chance of happening with WotC the way they have been going. But adding in some new invocations might be doable.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Your own math shows a major gap at levels 8 and 11, which I presume carries from a little before and after. And what most people complain about is exactly that gap, starting from level 7 and working up several levels from there.
I personally don't think the Warlock is broken, nor do I think it's unviable. But there is an obvious donut hole in capability that needs to be addressed, but has been missed by the development team despite numerous people pointing directly at it.
Doesn't matter. Or rather, only "true" under extremely specific circumstances in each case.
The only reason people consider Blade Pact "overpowered" is because of the third attack at 11th level and how it interacts with the overabundance of Blade-specific invocations you're required to take to make Blade pact 'good'. Remove that third attack and Blade pact goes back to being 100% balls-out pointless next to spending half the resources on Eldritch Blast for the same or better combat performance out to 120 - or 600 - feet. Blade warlocks have always needed to burn every single resource they have just to barely keep pace with Agonizing Doink. Now that Blade warlocks can actually get the sort of benefit they deserve from expending essentially all their Invocations to improve their swordplay, people are calling it 'broken'. Nor does the warlock have all the other combat resources a fighter or barbarian does - it has a good offense but not much HP and weak defenses.
As for your "Warlocks are amazing casters now!" spell math? It relies on blowing every invocation the warlock gets on Extra Spells, as well as strictly adhering to Ideal Rest Levels in daily exploration. If the warlock does not rest multiple times in an absolutely perfect way, regaining the theoretical maximum number of resources with each rest? If they don't use every Invocation they have on cramming spells into every last hole they can fill? They do not come close to approaching your "equal to a full caster" mark.
This "warlock" is an anemic half-assed retread of the 2014 model with effectively zero useful or positive changes The only even remotely interesting thing about this rebake is folding Pact Boons into Invocations and allowing warlocks to take more than one if they want, but y'all have spent, like...six threads now complaining about that too so it'll be gone by the time the books drop.
This UA7 warlock is weak, bad, feels bad to play, feels bad to read, and should just generally feel bad about itself.
Please do not contact or message me.
Sorry but no, I didn't include any invocations that grant additional spells, and I only assumed 1 SR per LR. In a dungeon crawl or long adventuring days it is common to get 2 SRs which bumps Warlock up above all other casters considerably.
As for why Pact of the Blade is broken now it is the combination of:
free at will access to any melee martial weapon on demand
Weapon Mastery + Proficiency built in -> this plus the above gives them better flexibility and utility from weapon masteries than the Fighter in tier 1 & 2 despite Fighter supposedly being the master of weapons.
3rd attack at level 11 -> this makes them just as good at fighting as fighters.
Damage multiplying spells -> Spirit Shroud is just vastly superior to any damage buff any other martial gets.
Ability to pick up extra feats with an invocation -> This mean NO they don't have worse hit points than a Fighter, they actually have better hit points because they can easily pick up Tough, it also means NO they don't have terrible AC because they can easily pick up Lightly Armoured for Medius Armour + Shields. So by Level 2 they easily rival a Fighter for melee combat, and outpace them at ranged combat.
I would never play a Fighter if the UA 7 Warlock is released as is. Because everything I might want out of Fighter I can do better with Warlock.
"most of those 'at-will' spells had zero utility in combat"
Sorry but isn't the reason casters are uber powerful and utterly outshine martials in every way, because they have spells they can use outside of combat to solve every problem the party might face, while martials have to sit there eating potato chips doing nothing at all until initiative is rolled?
In which case all those at-will utility spells are a hugely powerful boost.