I mean, you can still cast Conjure X as a Moon Druid - you would just do it before wild shaping instead of during. They last 10 minutes, so you should be able to do it before a fight if you know combat might be coming.
You certainly can, but if you get an unlucky bonk on the head and it ends you can't re-cast it, which is what having access to specific spells in Wildshape form is all about. And even if you win the fight most Moon Druids will stick to beast shape as long as possible so that they can make their Wildshape uses go as far as possible, which means they can't cast it again next combat without wasting a Wildshape use.
Also, just purely tactically speaking having the only damage-boosting spell on the Moon Druid list turn you into a furry disco ball isn't ideal. What if I'm in the Underdark trying to take advantage of being a Giant Scorpion with Blindsight?
For Spell Attack superseding the statblock to be fair they would have to make sure you can't get more than 2 attacks. Otherwise Moon could outgish even a Hexblade.
Spell Attack would only replace the attack roll, not the damage roll, so it wouldn't have any particular multiattack scaling.
You certainly can, but if you get an unlucky bonk on the head and it ends you can't re-cast it, which is what having access to specific spells in Wildshape form is all about. And even if you win the fight most Moon Druids will stick to beast shape as long as possible so that they can make their Wildshape uses go as far as possible, which means they can't cast it again next combat without wasting a Wildshape use.
Also, just purely tactically speaking having the only damage-boosting spell on the Moon Druid list turn you into a furry disco ball isn't ideal. What if I'm in the Underdark trying to take advantage of being a Giant Scorpion with Blindsight?
Then you use the different buff you want to use, and protect yourself from bonks on the head to maintain it. You're a fullcaster gish, figure something out; this is one of the few weaknesses you have that martials don't have to deal with. Hell, War Caster is a half-feat now.
Spell Attack would only replace the attack roll, not the damage roll, so it wouldn't have any particular multiattack scaling.
It would definitely power up some forms; a Giant Scorpion wildshape would more than double their chance to hit with each attack for example, and you already get bonus damage from Elemental Fury before whatever buff you'd be concentrating on. And unlike, say, a Swords Bard, you'd be buffing your martial stat and casting stat simultaneously.
Still, if they don't plan on upgrading the beast statblocks that will be in the PHB this could be an alternative. Maybe as a magic item...
Not a big fan of not being able to use species traits.
Yah, this is a bummer for me too. Makes choosing species almost irrelevant if you're going Moon Druid now.
I can understand why though, some of the species caused some unclear/likely unintended interactions. Could a Plasmoid Mammoth fit through a keyhole? Would a Changeling's ability even work, and if so, would the end result be a humanoid or another animal?
I would say species choice is definitely still relevant though. You could pick a species that gets bonus cantrips for instance. for use when you're not shapeshifted, thus freeing you up to get the all-important Guidance and the new buffed Resistance. Or you could just be a human - feats and proficiencies explicitly carry over, so more of those won't hurt, and you lose special senses anyway.
I can understand why though, some of the species caused some unclear/likely unintended interactions. Could a Plasmoid Mammoth fit through a keyhole? Would a Changeling's ability even work, and if so, would the end result be a humanoid or another animal?
I would say species choice is definitely still relevant though. You could pick a species that gets bonus cantrips for instance. for use when you're not shapeshifted, thus freeing you up to get the all-important Guidance and the new buffed Resistance. Or you could just be a human - feats and proficiencies explicitly carry over, so more of those won't hurt, and you lose special senses anyway.
In my ideal world, there'd be some marker on species that designate if an ability is physical, mental, or magical in nature. An Aarakocra's wings would be physical while their Wind Caller would be magical while a Lizardfolk's bite and scales would be physical while their extra proficiencies and Hungry Jaws would be mental.
Then you just mark it that Wildshape prevents physical traits from carrying over but you'd retain mental and magical traits, which magical traits additionally being restricted by the normal Wildshape rules concerning spellcasting.
Polymorph effects could similarly restrict you from physical and mental traits but might let magical ones carry over.
In the case of the Plasmoid, all their racials would probably be designated as Physical. Changeling I'd probably have Shapechanger be a Physical trait too while Changeling Instincts is Mental.
But that's a lot of work just to accommodate Wildshape. I'm unsure if there are any other systems that'd benefit from these distinctions.
Anyone else find the time allowed for wild shape to be out of proportion? Polymorph only lasts for an hour; wild shape lasts for far longer once the druid hits 4th level. Even if the campaign never makes it past 12th level, that's 12 hours of wild shape available (6 hours per use), assuming no short rests.
Anyone else find the time allowed for wild shape to be out of proportion? Polymorph only lasts for an hour; wild shape lasts for far longer once the druid hits 4th level. Even if the campaign never makes it past 12th level, that's 12 hours of wild shape available (6 hours per use), assuming no short rests.
Keep in mind that druid players don't want to just use Wildshape as a purely combat-related resource. It's also for long-range scouting, infiltration, travel, and most importantly roleplay.
I'd be miserable if I only had an hour per use of Wildshape as it means I'd have a way smaller window of time to goof around with my friends as an animal between fight sequences.
In my ideal world, there'd be some marker on species that designate if an ability is physical, mental, or magical in nature. An Aarakocra's wings would be physical while their Wind Caller would be magical while a Lizardfolk's bite and scales would be physical while their extra proficiencies and Hungry Jaws would be mental.
Then you just mark it that Wildshape prevents physical traits from carrying over but you'd retain mental and magical traits, which magical traits additionally being restricted by the normal Wildshape rules concerning spellcasting.
Polymorph effects could similarly restrict you from physical and mental traits but might let magical ones carry over.
In the case of the Plasmoid, all their racials would probably be designated as Physical. Changeling I'd probably have Shapechanger be a Physical trait too while Changeling Instincts is Mental.
But that's a lot of work just to accommodate Wildshape. I'm unsure if there are any other systems that'd benefit from these distinctions.
Speaking personally, I was completely fine with the "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so"clause. But much like Larian did, they would probably have to rule on what you keep or lose for their shiny new tabletop if its going to contain automation; I could see them trying to avoid that, so that they don't have to figure out whether turning into an octopus should gray out your dragonborn breath weapon but keep your bugbear's surprise attack or something. Probably easier to shut off everything by default and let DMs houserule things back in. But I'd rather just let the DM be the explicit arbiter of which racials make sense in wildshape and which don't, and use Sage Advice to squash any particularly disruptive/incongruous ones like Changeling and Plasmoid.
Anyone else find the time allowed for wild shape to be out of proportion? Polymorph only lasts for an hour; wild shape lasts for far longer once the druid hits 4th level. Even if the campaign never makes it past 12th level, that's 12 hours of wild shape available (6 hours per use), assuming no short rests.
Wild Shape isn't polymorph, of course it lasts longer; it's a special technique resulting from the druid's reverence of nature and their unique training. It doesn't have to follow the same limitations as a transmutation spell.
Did any one else notice the discrepancy between the design notes and the actual design?
Design notes: Improved Circle Forms allows you to make TWO LUNAR SWIPE ATTACKS as an action, as well as add your Wisdom modifier to your Constitution saving throws while in a Wild Shape form.
LEVEL 6: IMPROVED CIRCLE FORMS While in a Wild Shape form, you gain the following benefits: Lunar Radiance. Each of your attacks in a Wild Shape form can deal its normal damage type or Radiant damage. You make this choice each time you hit with those attacks. Increased Toughness. You can add your Wisdom modifier to your Constitution saving throws.
The design notes imply you are suppose to get two attacks but its not written in the level 6 feature.
Did any one else notice the discrepancy between the design notes and the actual design?
Design notes: Improved Circle Forms allows you to make TWO LUNAR SWIPE ATTACKS as an action, as well as add your Wisdom modifier to your Constitution saving throws while in a Wild Shape form.
LEVEL 6: IMPROVED CIRCLE FORMS While in a Wild Shape form, you gain the following benefits: Lunar Radiance. Each of your attacks in a Wild Shape form can deal its normal damage type or Radiant damage. You make this choice each time you hit with those attacks. Increased Toughness. You can add your Wisdom modifier to your Constitution saving throws.
The design notes imply you are suppose to get two attacks but its not written in the level 6 feature.
Yeah I did notice that. Maybe they were planning for a template/statblock hybrid at one point?
Did any one else notice the discrepancy between the design notes and the actual design?
Design notes: Improved Circle Forms allows you to make TWO LUNAR SWIPE ATTACKS as an action, as well as add your Wisdom modifier to your Constitution saving throws while in a Wild Shape form.
LEVEL 6: IMPROVED CIRCLE FORMS While in a Wild Shape form, you gain the following benefits: Lunar Radiance. Each of your attacks in a Wild Shape form can deal its normal damage type or Radiant damage. You make this choice each time you hit with those attacks. Increased Toughness. You can add your Wisdom modifier to your Constitution saving throws.
The design notes imply you are suppose to get two attacks but its not written in the level 6 feature.
I'd bet money that somewhere behind the scenes they are still working on template-based WS, whether its for a videogame or their quasi-videogame VTT, or something else.
But the thing people haven't really been talking about w.r.t the new Moon Druid is that these features all heavily incentivize using a small number of specific forms over others. (That was always somewhat of a problem, but IMO it is even worse now). Because for Moon druids now, the HP of the animals form is largely irrelevant as you are capped at 3*druid level, the AC of the animal form is irrelevant because you get 13+Wis which is higher than any animal form. Whereas the number of attacks you make is incredibly important because you have both spells and features that give you extra damage on each attack that hits.
This means bears.. are out. You’ll be looking at Dinonychus & Giant Scorpion shaped Moon Druids for pretty much their entire career. Probaly some Polar Bears, or Giant Vultures as well, but those that's it for the viable damage dealing choices.
Only beast forms from players handbook are allowed for wildshape. I would imagine when the new phb comes out they will have a limited selection of the more common beasts to choose from.
One problem moon druid still has is you can't use your own proficiency bonus for attack rolls. That becomes an issue as you level up.
I'd bet money that somewhere behind the scenes they are still working on template-based WS, whether its for a videogame or their quasi-videogame VTT, or something else.
But the thing people haven't really been talking about w.r.t the new Moon Druid is that these features all heavily incentivize using a small number of specific forms over others. (That was always somewhat of a problem, but IMO it is even worse now). Because for Moon druids now, the HP of the animals form is largely irrelevant as you are capped at 3*druid level, the AC of the animal form is irrelevant because you get 13+Wis which is higher than any animal form. Whereas the number of attacks you make is incredibly important because you have both spells and features that give you extra damage on each attack that hits.
This means bears.. are out. You’ll be looking at Dinonychus & Giant Scorpion shaped Moon Druids for pretty much their entire career. Probaly some Polar Bears, or Giant Vultures as well, but those that's it for the viable damage dealing choices.
This is why I prefer 5e's version of Wildshape. All beasts had some pros and cons. Some had bigger pros than others which created a meta list, but OneDnD's Wildshape is massively increasing the specificity of what beast forms are going to be valuable and what aren't.
Between this and the new Conjure spells, it feels like a lot of the flavor and fun of the druid class is being sacrificed on the altar of balance. OneDnD might end up being a more tightly designed game, but the most memorable DnD moments don't come from damage charts and using the optimal spells over and over again. They come from the off-the-wall, bizarre shenanigans players come up with when given a bunch of mismatched tools and asked to find a solution. Turning into a giant octopus to wrestle down a knight on a horse or summoning a dozen snakes to hold down a group of mooks while the party runs ahead. Things like that.
Wizards of the Coast really, really, reeeeeeally are against giving druids any kind of creative freedom. So much so that they put a rule saying we can only use the PHB animal forms and everything extra must be DM-approved. I've not complained about this because the DM has always had the ability to veto shapes they didn't like, but specifically pointing it out and codifying it in a rule makes their official stance clear.
They don't want any more wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans concerning Wildshape. They want it highly streamlined, simplified, and easily packaged.
I'm just glad I'm playing my dinosaur druid under 5e rules because unless the PHB has a bunch of unexpected dinosaurs in it I don't think such a character concept is supported under their vision of what the new druid is supposed to be.
This is why I prefer 5e's version of Wildshape. All beasts had some pros and cons. Some had bigger pros than others which created a meta list, but OneDnD's Wildshape is massively increasing the specificity of what beast forms are going to be valuable and what aren't.
There is literally no way to avoid a "meta" as long as wildshape is based on statblocks. Which is exactly what us pro-template people were trying to warn y'all about all the way back in UA5, but we got shouted down in the survey and that was that. Being restricted to the PHB animals and limited forms known will help with that, but it won't solve it.
I predict we'll have to put up with statblock-based wildshape for a few more years, then they'll release template wildshape like they always wanted to do as an Optional Class Feature in Tasha 2 Subclass Boogaloo and be seen as heroes. Exactly like they were forced to do with BM Ranger.
Wizards of the Coast really, really, reeeeeeally are against giving druids any kind of creative freedom. So much so that they put a rule saying we can only use the PHB animal forms and everything extra must be DM-approved. I've not complained about this because the DM has always had the ability to veto shapes they didn't like, but specifically pointing it out and codifying it in a rule makes their official stance clear.
They don't want any more wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans concerning Wildshape. They want it highly streamlined, simplified, and easily packaged.
I'm just glad I'm playing my dinosaur druid under 5e rules because unless the PHB has a bunch of unexpected dinosaurs in it I don't think such a character concept is supported under their vision of what the new druid is supposed to be.
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Look, they're not against "creative freedom," but the druid can't keep being the main character at every table they sit down at with turns that take 10x as long as everyone else's while they generate "wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans" or flip through the MM for multiple of their core features round after round. In D&D as in life, individual freedom always has to be balanced against the needs of the collective. That means curation was always inevitable no matter which version of wildshape they went with.
There is literally no way to avoid a "meta" as long as wildshape is based on statblocks. Which is exactly what us pro-template people were trying to warn y'all about all the way back in UA5, but we got shouted down in the survey and that was that. Being restricted to the PHB animals and limited forms known will help with that, but it won't solve it.
I predict we'll have to put up with statblock-based wildshape for a few more years, then they'll release template wildshape like they always wanted to do as an Optional Class Feature in Tasha 2 Subclass Boogaloo and be seen as heroes. Exactly like they were forced to do with BM Ranger.
There will always be a meta, but the OneDnD meta is going to be much, much more narrow than the already quite narrow meta we have now. They're taking away entire books worth of options while making rules that make the forms scale (which is good) in a way that totally ignores the beast's original characteristics (which is bad) and makes it so the only beast traits that matter is their number of attacks (which is very bad).
And while templates fix the meta issue they did so by literally gutting every option Wildshape had down to three picks, so this isn't the "gotcha" you seem to think it is for the templates argument.
Look, they're not against "creative freedom," but the druid can't keep being the main character at every table they sit down at with turns that take 10x as long as everyone else's while they generate "wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans" or flip through the MM for multiple of their core features round after round. In D&D as in life, individual freedom always has to be balanced against the needs of the collective. That means curation was always inevitable no matter which version of wildshape they went with.
I really don't know where this narrative came from. My turns are very quick and efficient because I usually know what forms I want to use before the game starts just like literally every single pure caster will have perused the spellbook before play and has a handle on what their spells do. I intuitively did this as a brand-new player without ever needing to be told because it just seemed like the obvious thing to do.
Heck, my choice is usually way simpler. "Are we in combat? Yes? Bear." Meanwhile, Mr. Wizard over there is spending 7 full minutes perusing his vast collection of spells and is caught trying to decide between four particularly spicy ones that might help in this situation.
This is why I didn't complain about having a Shapes Known list. It's a restriction most druids already place on themselves either out of theme (Dino druid turns into dinosaurs and large reptiles, maybe this elf druid prefers birds and cats, etc.). But adding the PHB restriction feels like a step too far even if it doesn't functionally matter at my table because my DM trusts me not to grab stuff just for the sake of powergaming.
They did say they're adding more beasts to the PHB, so that's a silver lining. Unfortunately, it'll be a while before we see what options druid even has access to. Which itself is making Moon Druid particularly hard to give feedback on. We basically can only see the class features but not the "spell list", so to speak.
I'd bet money that somewhere behind the scenes they are still working on template-based WS, whether its for a videogame or their quasi-videogame VTT, or something else.
But the thing people haven't really been talking about w.r.t the new Moon Druid is that these features all heavily incentivize using a small number of specific forms over others. (That was always somewhat of a problem, but IMO it is even worse now). Because for Moon druids now, the HP of the animals form is largely irrelevant as you are capped at 3*druid level, the AC of the animal form is irrelevant because you get 13+Wis which is higher than any animal form. Whereas the number of attacks you make is incredibly important because you have both spells and features that give you extra damage on each attack that hits.
This means bears.. are out. You’ll be looking at Dinonychus & Giant Scorpion shaped Moon Druids for pretty much their entire career. Probaly some Polar Bears, or Giant Vultures as well, but those that's it for the viable damage dealing choices.
This is why I prefer 5e's version of Wildshape. All beasts had some pros and cons. Some had bigger pros than others which created a meta list, but OneDnD's Wildshape is massively increasing the specificity of what beast forms are going to be valuable and what aren't.
Between this and the new Conjure spells, it feels like a lot of the flavor and fun of the druid class is being sacrificed on the altar of balance. OneDnD might end up being a more tightly designed game, but the most memorable DnD moments don't come from damage charts and using the optimal spells over and over again. They come from the off-the-wall, bizarre shenanigans players come up with when given a bunch of mismatched tools and asked to find a solution. Turning into a giant octopus to wrestle down a knight on a horse or summoning a dozen snakes to hold down a group of mooks while the party runs ahead. Things like that.
Wizards of the Coast really, really, reeeeeeally are against giving druids any kind of creative freedom. So much so that they put a rule saying we can only use the PHB animal forms and everything extra must be DM-approved. I've not complained about this because the DM has always had the ability to veto shapes they didn't like, but specifically pointing it out and codifying it in a rule makes their official stance clear.
They don't want any more wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans concerning Wildshape. They want it highly streamlined, simplified, and easily packaged.
I'm just glad I'm playing my dinosaur druid under 5e rules because unless the PHB has a bunch of unexpected dinosaurs in it I don't think such a character concept is supported under their vision of what the new druid is supposed to be.
Exactly! Who remembers the 50th time the cleric cast Spirit Guardians to do 3d8 radiant.. blah... blah..? - No one!
Whereas I remember vividly the whole party flying over Blood War in Avernus on the backs of Giant Owls, hoping we don't get spotted, or when to escape a collapsing tunnel, the Druid WSed into a Giant Elk and the Wizard cast fly on them while the rest of the party climbed on the back as the flying giant reindeer flew us safely out of the tower. Or when we were trapped in a sewer pipe about to be filled with acid and the druid summoned an army of Giant Badgers to dig us a safe hidey hole.
This is why I prefer 5e's version of Wildshape. All beasts had some pros and cons. Some had bigger pros than others which created a meta list, but OneDnD's Wildshape is massively increasing the specificity of what beast forms are going to be valuable and what aren't.
There is literally no way to avoid a "meta" as long as wildshape is based on statblocks. Which is exactly what us pro-template people were trying to warn y'all about all the way back in UA5, but we got shouted down in the survey and that was that. Being restricted to the PHB animals and limited forms known will help with that, but it won't solve it.
I predict we'll have to put up with statblock-based wildshape for a few more years, then they'll release template wildshape like they always wanted to do as an Optional Class Feature in Tasha 2 Subclass Boogaloo and be seen as heroes. Exactly like they were forced to do with BM Ranger.
Wizards of the Coast really, really, reeeeeeally are against giving druids any kind of creative freedom. So much so that they put a rule saying we can only use the PHB animal forms and everything extra must be DM-approved. I've not complained about this because the DM has always had the ability to veto shapes they didn't like, but specifically pointing it out and codifying it in a rule makes their official stance clear.
They don't want any more wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans concerning Wildshape. They want it highly streamlined, simplified, and easily packaged.
I'm just glad I'm playing my dinosaur druid under 5e rules because unless the PHB has a bunch of unexpected dinosaurs in it I don't think such a character concept is supported under their vision of what the new druid is supposed to be.
Username checks out 😛
Look, they're not against "creative freedom," but the druid can't keep being the main character at every table they sit down at with turns that take 10x as long as everyone else's while they generate "wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans" or flip through the MM for multiple of their core features round after round. In D&D as in life, individual freedom always has to be balanced against the needs of the collective. That means curation was always inevitable no matter which version of wildshape they went with.
I'm envisioning Order of the Stick when the evil druid fought Haley...."I'm a DRUID! I have minor class features more powerful than your entire class!" Then he cast Enlarge Animal on his animal companion, sicced it on her, and went to fight someone else.
There will always be a meta, but the OneDnD meta is going to be much, much more narrow than the already quite narrow meta we have now. They're taking away entire books worth of options while making rules that make the forms scale (which is good) in a way that totally ignores the beast's original characteristics (which is bad) and makes it so the only beast traits that matter is their number of attacks (which is very bad).
And while templates fix the meta issue they did so by literally gutting every option Wildshape had down to three picks, so this isn't the "gotcha" you seem to think it is for the templates argument.
Eh, there is no way on Silvanus' green earth that the new meta gets as narrow as the old one, wherein most 2014 moon druids gave up on the animal thing entirely and spent all their time outside of caster form as elementals... when they even bothered to wildshape at all that is, instead of just being ghetto Land Druids... until they hit 18, at which point the forms were being treated more as a renewable bucket of temp HP on a caster, than an actual serious combat gish. This version is already winning by making us want to stay in animal form so we can benefit from Primal Strike and Lunar Radiance etc.
I really don't know where this narrative came from. My turns are very quick and efficient because I usually know what forms I want to use before the game starts just like literally every single pure caster will have perused the spellbook before play and has a handle on what their spells do. I intuitively did this as a brand-new player without ever needing to be told because it just seemed like the obvious thing to do.
Heck, my choice is usually way simpler. "Are we in combat? Yes? Bear." Meanwhile, Mr. Wizard over there is spending 7 full minutes perusing his vast collection of spells and is caught trying to decide between four particularly spicy ones that might help in this situation.
This is why I didn't complain about having a Shapes Known list. It's a restriction most druids already place on themselves either out of theme (Dino druid turns into dinosaurs and large reptiles, maybe this elf druid prefers birds and cats, etc.). But adding the PHB restriction feels like a step too far even if it doesn't functionally matter at my table because my DM trusts me not to grab stuff just for the sake of powergaming.
They did say they're adding more beasts to the PHB, so that's a silver lining. Unfortunately, it'll be a while before we see what options druid even has access to. Which itself is making Moon Druid particularly hard to give feedback on. We basically can only see the class features but not the "spell list", so to speak.
"My Druid is never disruptive, I'm not a powergamer, and my wildshape turns take no time at all" is fine and dandy for you. But clearly they are designing these changes for people/tables who are not you. The PHB restriction doesn't just massively speed things up (because now, every form the DM allows outside of that is them being gracious, and the players will know it), it also keeps DM-facing material like the MM and adventure paths DM-facing..
I find the Wizard comparison odd. Wizards never need to peruse their "vast collection" during combat, just the spells they have prepared - just like the Druid would. Unless you're saying they're allowed to cast from everything in their spellbook at your table, which would mean the Druid is even worse off, as they'd have access to their entire spell list!
I'm envisioning Order of the Stick when the evil druid fought Haley...."I'm a DRUID! I have minor class features more powerful than your entire class!" Then he cast Enlarge Animal on his animal companion, sicced it on her, and went to fight someone else.
Ha! To be fair, that was 3.5 Druid, i.e. you could be a bear riding a bear summoning more bears at level 6. As much as the 5e Druid needed to be tweaked, it's never been as bad as that.
Until we see the list of possible Druid Wild shapes we don’t know what kind of shenanigans people will be allowed to get up to. Everyone is jumping to conclusions. Also Number of attacks isn’t the only thing that’s going to matter. I think people are forgetting some beast have riders on their attacks that make them optimal I’m certain conditions.
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You certainly can, but if you get an unlucky bonk on the head and it ends you can't re-cast it, which is what having access to specific spells in Wildshape form is all about. And even if you win the fight most Moon Druids will stick to beast shape as long as possible so that they can make their Wildshape uses go as far as possible, which means they can't cast it again next combat without wasting a Wildshape use.
Also, just purely tactically speaking having the only damage-boosting spell on the Moon Druid list turn you into a furry disco ball isn't ideal. What if I'm in the Underdark trying to take advantage of being a Giant Scorpion with Blindsight?
Not a big fan of not being able to use species traits.
Spell Attack would only replace the attack roll, not the damage roll, so it wouldn't have any particular multiattack scaling.
Yah, this is a bummer for me too. Makes choosing species almost irrelevant if you're going Moon Druid now.
Then you use the different buff you want to use, and protect yourself from bonks on the head to maintain it. You're a fullcaster gish, figure something out; this is one of the few weaknesses you have that martials don't have to deal with. Hell, War Caster is a half-feat now.
It would definitely power up some forms; a Giant Scorpion wildshape would more than double their chance to hit with each attack for example, and you already get bonus damage from Elemental Fury before whatever buff you'd be concentrating on. And unlike, say, a Swords Bard, you'd be buffing your martial stat and casting stat simultaneously.
Still, if they don't plan on upgrading the beast statblocks that will be in the PHB this could be an alternative. Maybe as a magic item...
I can understand why though, some of the species caused some unclear/likely unintended interactions. Could a Plasmoid Mammoth fit through a keyhole? Would a Changeling's ability even work, and if so, would the end result be a humanoid or another animal?
I would say species choice is definitely still relevant though. You could pick a species that gets bonus cantrips for instance. for use when you're not shapeshifted, thus freeing you up to get the all-important Guidance and the new buffed Resistance. Or you could just be a human - feats and proficiencies explicitly carry over, so more of those won't hurt, and you lose special senses anyway.
In my ideal world, there'd be some marker on species that designate if an ability is physical, mental, or magical in nature. An Aarakocra's wings would be physical while their Wind Caller would be magical while a Lizardfolk's bite and scales would be physical while their extra proficiencies and Hungry Jaws would be mental.
Then you just mark it that Wildshape prevents physical traits from carrying over but you'd retain mental and magical traits, which magical traits additionally being restricted by the normal Wildshape rules concerning spellcasting.
Polymorph effects could similarly restrict you from physical and mental traits but might let magical ones carry over.
In the case of the Plasmoid, all their racials would probably be designated as Physical. Changeling I'd probably have Shapechanger be a Physical trait too while Changeling Instincts is Mental.
But that's a lot of work just to accommodate Wildshape. I'm unsure if there are any other systems that'd benefit from these distinctions.
Anyone else find the time allowed for wild shape to be out of proportion? Polymorph only lasts for an hour; wild shape lasts for far longer once the druid hits 4th level. Even if the campaign never makes it past 12th level, that's 12 hours of wild shape available (6 hours per use), assuming no short rests.
Keep in mind that druid players don't want to just use Wildshape as a purely combat-related resource. It's also for long-range scouting, infiltration, travel, and most importantly roleplay.
I'd be miserable if I only had an hour per use of Wildshape as it means I'd have a way smaller window of time to goof around with my friends as an animal between fight sequences.
Speaking personally, I was completely fine with the "You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so" clause. But much like Larian did, they would probably have to rule on what you keep or lose for their shiny new tabletop if its going to contain automation; I could see them trying to avoid that, so that they don't have to figure out whether turning into an octopus should gray out your dragonborn breath weapon but keep your bugbear's surprise attack or something. Probably easier to shut off everything by default and let DMs houserule things back in. But I'd rather just let the DM be the explicit arbiter of which racials make sense in wildshape and which don't, and use Sage Advice to squash any particularly disruptive/incongruous ones like Changeling and Plasmoid.
Wild Shape isn't polymorph, of course it lasts longer; it's a special technique resulting from the druid's reverence of nature and their unique training. It doesn't have to follow the same limitations as a transmutation spell.
Did any one else notice the discrepancy between the design notes and the actual design?
Design notes: Improved Circle Forms allows you to make TWO LUNAR SWIPE ATTACKS as an action, as well as add your Wisdom modifier to your Constitution saving throws while in a Wild Shape form.
LEVEL 6: IMPROVED CIRCLE FORMS While in a Wild Shape form, you gain the following benefits: Lunar Radiance. Each of your attacks in a Wild Shape form can deal its normal damage type or Radiant damage. You make this choice each time you hit with those attacks. Increased Toughness. You can add your Wisdom modifier to your Constitution saving throws.
The design notes imply you are suppose to get two attacks but its not written in the level 6 feature.
Yeah I did notice that. Maybe they were planning for a template/statblock hybrid at one point?
I'd bet money that somewhere behind the scenes they are still working on template-based WS, whether its for a videogame or their quasi-videogame VTT, or something else.
But the thing people haven't really been talking about w.r.t the new Moon Druid is that these features all heavily incentivize using a small number of specific forms over others. (That was always somewhat of a problem, but IMO it is even worse now). Because for Moon druids now, the HP of the animals form is largely irrelevant as you are capped at 3*druid level, the AC of the animal form is irrelevant because you get 13+Wis which is higher than any animal form. Whereas the number of attacks you make is incredibly important because you have both spells and features that give you extra damage on each attack that hits.
This means bears.. are out. You’ll be looking at Dinonychus & Giant Scorpion shaped Moon Druids for pretty much their entire career. Probaly some Polar Bears, or Giant Vultures as well, but those that's it for the viable damage dealing choices.
Only beast forms from players handbook are allowed for wildshape. I would imagine when the new phb comes out they will have a limited selection of the more common beasts to choose from.
One problem moon druid still has is you can't use your own proficiency bonus for attack rolls. That becomes an issue as you level up.
This is why I prefer 5e's version of Wildshape. All beasts had some pros and cons. Some had bigger pros than others which created a meta list, but OneDnD's Wildshape is massively increasing the specificity of what beast forms are going to be valuable and what aren't.
Between this and the new Conjure spells, it feels like a lot of the flavor and fun of the druid class is being sacrificed on the altar of balance. OneDnD might end up being a more tightly designed game, but the most memorable DnD moments don't come from damage charts and using the optimal spells over and over again. They come from the off-the-wall, bizarre shenanigans players come up with when given a bunch of mismatched tools and asked to find a solution. Turning into a giant octopus to wrestle down a knight on a horse or summoning a dozen snakes to hold down a group of mooks while the party runs ahead. Things like that.
Wizards of the Coast really, really, reeeeeeally are against giving druids any kind of creative freedom. So much so that they put a rule saying we can only use the PHB animal forms and everything extra must be DM-approved. I've not complained about this because the DM has always had the ability to veto shapes they didn't like, but specifically pointing it out and codifying it in a rule makes their official stance clear.
They don't want any more wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans concerning Wildshape. They want it highly streamlined, simplified, and easily packaged.
I'm just glad I'm playing my dinosaur druid under 5e rules because unless the PHB has a bunch of unexpected dinosaurs in it I don't think such a character concept is supported under their vision of what the new druid is supposed to be.
There is literally no way to avoid a "meta" as long as wildshape is based on statblocks. Which is exactly what us pro-template people were trying to warn y'all about all the way back in UA5, but we got shouted down in the survey and that was that. Being restricted to the PHB animals and limited forms known will help with that, but it won't solve it.
I predict we'll have to put up with statblock-based wildshape for a few more years, then they'll release template wildshape like they always wanted to do as an Optional Class Feature in Tasha 2 Subclass Boogaloo and be seen as heroes. Exactly like they were forced to do with BM Ranger.
Username checks out 😛
Look, they're not against "creative freedom," but the druid can't keep being the main character at every table they sit down at with turns that take 10x as long as everyone else's while they generate "wacky, off-the-wall shenanigans" or flip through the MM for multiple of their core features round after round. In D&D as in life, individual freedom always has to be balanced against the needs of the collective. That means curation was always inevitable no matter which version of wildshape they went with.
There will always be a meta, but the OneDnD meta is going to be much, much more narrow than the already quite narrow meta we have now. They're taking away entire books worth of options while making rules that make the forms scale (which is good) in a way that totally ignores the beast's original characteristics (which is bad) and makes it so the only beast traits that matter is their number of attacks (which is very bad).
And while templates fix the meta issue they did so by literally gutting every option Wildshape had down to three picks, so this isn't the "gotcha" you seem to think it is for the templates argument.
I really don't know where this narrative came from. My turns are very quick and efficient because I usually know what forms I want to use before the game starts just like literally every single pure caster will have perused the spellbook before play and has a handle on what their spells do. I intuitively did this as a brand-new player without ever needing to be told because it just seemed like the obvious thing to do.
Heck, my choice is usually way simpler. "Are we in combat? Yes? Bear." Meanwhile, Mr. Wizard over there is spending 7 full minutes perusing his vast collection of spells and is caught trying to decide between four particularly spicy ones that might help in this situation.
This is why I didn't complain about having a Shapes Known list. It's a restriction most druids already place on themselves either out of theme (Dino druid turns into dinosaurs and large reptiles, maybe this elf druid prefers birds and cats, etc.). But adding the PHB restriction feels like a step too far even if it doesn't functionally matter at my table because my DM trusts me not to grab stuff just for the sake of powergaming.
They did say they're adding more beasts to the PHB, so that's a silver lining. Unfortunately, it'll be a while before we see what options druid even has access to. Which itself is making Moon Druid particularly hard to give feedback on. We basically can only see the class features but not the "spell list", so to speak.
Exactly! Who remembers the 50th time the cleric cast Spirit Guardians to do 3d8 radiant.. blah... blah..? - No one!
Whereas I remember vividly the whole party flying over Blood War in Avernus on the backs of Giant Owls, hoping we don't get spotted, or when to escape a collapsing tunnel, the Druid WSed into a Giant Elk and the Wizard cast fly on them while the rest of the party climbed on the back as the flying giant reindeer flew us safely out of the tower. Or when we were trapped in a sewer pipe about to be filled with acid and the druid summoned an army of Giant Badgers to dig us a safe hidey hole.
I'm envisioning Order of the Stick when the evil druid fought Haley...."I'm a DRUID! I have minor class features more powerful than your entire class!" Then he cast Enlarge Animal on his animal companion, sicced it on her, and went to fight someone else.
Eh, there is no way on Silvanus' green earth that the new meta gets as narrow as the old one, wherein most 2014 moon druids gave up on the animal thing entirely and spent all their time outside of caster form as elementals... when they even bothered to wildshape at all that is, instead of just being ghetto Land Druids... until they hit 18, at which point the forms were being treated more as a renewable bucket of temp HP on a caster, than an actual serious combat gish. This version is already winning by making us want to stay in animal form so we can benefit from Primal Strike and Lunar Radiance etc.
"My Druid is never disruptive, I'm not a powergamer, and my wildshape turns take no time at all" is fine and dandy for you. But clearly they are designing these changes for people/tables who are not you. The PHB restriction doesn't just massively speed things up (because now, every form the DM allows outside of that is them being gracious, and the players will know it), it also keeps DM-facing material like the MM and adventure paths DM-facing..
I find the Wizard comparison odd. Wizards never need to peruse their "vast collection" during combat, just the spells they have prepared - just like the Druid would. Unless you're saying they're allowed to cast from everything in their spellbook at your table, which would mean the Druid is even worse off, as they'd have access to their entire spell list!
Ha! To be fair, that was 3.5 Druid, i.e. you could be a bear riding a bear summoning more bears at level 6. As much as the 5e Druid needed to be tweaked, it's never been as bad as that.
Until we see the list of possible Druid Wild shapes we don’t know what kind of shenanigans people will be allowed to get up to. Everyone is jumping to conclusions. Also Number of attacks isn’t the only thing that’s going to matter. I think people are forgetting some beast have riders on their attacks that make them optimal I’m certain conditions.