9th level Druid using Shilleigh and True Strike (Gained from Magic Initiate)
1d10 [Shillelagh Force damage] + 1d6 [True Strike Radiant Damage] + 1d8 [Elemental Fury Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder] + 4d8 [Conjure Woodland Beings Bludgeoning, Cold, Fire, or Lightning] +4 [Wisdom Mod] = 35.5 base damage x 60% hit rate = 21.3 DPR with an AC17 [Half Plate and 14 dexterity] and ability to self heal as a BA with Healing Word.
Maybe still not the best melee character but the Druid has come a long way.
I assume you meant Conjure Minor Elementals, not Conjure Woodland Beings.
It's okay damage for a non-martial, but I don't think it's enough to be rushing into melee, you're still relatively squishy as a druid here.
Conjure Minor Elementals gets crazy on circle of the moon druid. I think they need to nerf the upcast on this one significantly, when you're casting it as a 8th level spell to add 10d8 damage per attack, it's just insane. It's cast-time is an action so losing the 1st round of combat partly makes up for it but lasting 100 rounds, can easily cast around the corner prior to combat...
9th level Druid using Shilleigh and True Strike (Gained from Magic Initiate)
1d10 [Shillelagh Force damage] + 1d6 [True Strike Radiant Damage] + 1d8 [Elemental Fury Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder] + 4d8 [Conjure Woodland Beings Bludgeoning, Cold, Fire, or Lightning] +4 [Wisdom Mod] = 35.5 base damage x 60% hit rate = 21.3 DPR with an AC17 [Half Plate and 14 dexterity] and ability to self heal as a BA with Healing Word.
Maybe still not the best melee character but the Druid has come a long way.
Mm... yes because every druid player's dream was to hit things with a stick...
9th level Druid using Shilleigh and True Strike (Gained from Magic Initiate)
1d10 [Shillelagh Force damage] + 1d6 [True Strike Radiant Damage] + 1d8 [Elemental Fury Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder] + 4d8 [Conjure Woodland Beings Bludgeoning, Cold, Fire, or Lightning] +4 [Wisdom Mod] = 35.5 base damage x 60% hit rate = 21.3 DPR with an AC17 [Half Plate and 14 dexterity] and ability to self heal as a BA with Healing Word.
Maybe still not the best melee character but the Druid has come a long way.
Mm... yes because every druid player's dream was to hit things with a stick...
Who's to say someone might want to make a melee Nature's Warrior type character and not play Moon Druid. I mean, they gave Elemental Fury's Primal Strike option for a reason (mostly for Moon, but for others as well). Not too far off a 5E melee cleric, with Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians going at the same time. Might not be my taste, but I'm not going to say the OP is wrong to think about it.
Who's to say someone might want to make a melee Nature's Warrior type character and not play Moon Druid.
This is what Ranger is supposed to be, to be fair. It's literally the martial equivalent to druid the way paladin is to cleric.
Thinking on it though, weapon druid feels weird mechanically the more I think about it. We get martial weapons, but the way you maximize a melee druid is to take Shillelagh and a club. So martial weapon access becomes useless.
I suppose this does let druids take a longbow, which is nice. You can build DEX instead of CON and lean on your Longbow damage rather than a cantrip.
Though now the best melee weapon for druid outside Shillelagh is the rapier rather than the scimitar. Druid with a rapier feels off to me. Would rather be good at using an axe or warclub but both of those use STR and druids are too mad to build STR too.
Who's to say someone might want to make a melee Nature's Warrior type character and not play Moon Druid.
This is what Ranger is supposed to be, to be fair. It's literally the martial equivalent to druid the way paladin is to cleric.
Thinking on it though, weapon druid feels weird mechanically the more I think about it. We get martial weapons, but the way you maximize a melee druid is to take Shillelagh and a club. So martial weapon access becomes useless.
I suppose this does let druids take a longbow, which is nice. You can build DEX instead of CON and lean on your Longbow damage rather than a cantrip.
Though now the best melee weapon for druid outside Shillelagh is the rapier rather than the scimitar. Druid with a rapier feels off to me. Would rather be good at using an axe or warclub but both of those use STR and druids are too mad to build STR too.
My point is, it's not up to anyone on these forums to say "you're playing the class wrong" or "that's <insert class's> job." If someone wants to play a martial druid, they can, and WotC provided a method to do so. If someone wanted to play a martial cleric, they can as well. It may not be optimal compared to playing the class as it was generally designed. But there are all kinds of interesting builds out there. Could my druid do much more utilizing my spells to control the battlefield, lay down hazards, summon some allies, etc? Maybe.
Feel free to play a combat druid by loading up on feats, favoring STR + DEX, proficiencies that buff weapon damage & AC. Will likely resemble the DPR of a Cleric, but not the AC.
Who's to say someone might want to make a melee Nature's Warrior type character and not play Moon Druid.
This is what Ranger is supposed to be, to be fair. It's literally the martial equivalent to druid the way paladin is to cleric.
Thinking on it though, weapon druid feels weird mechanically the more I think about it. We get martial weapons, but the way you maximize a melee druid is to take Shillelagh and a club. So martial weapon access becomes useless.
I suppose this does let druids take a longbow, which is nice. You can build DEX instead of CON and lean on your Longbow damage rather than a cantrip.
Though now the best melee weapon for druid outside Shillelagh is the rapier rather than the scimitar. Druid with a rapier feels off to me. Would rather be good at using an axe or warclub but both of those use STR and druids are too mad to build STR too.
My point is, it's not up to anyone on these forums to say "you're playing the class wrong" or "that's <insert class's> job." If someone wants to play a martial druid, they can, and WotC provided a method to do so. If someone wanted to play a martial cleric, they can as well. It may not be optimal compared to playing the class as it was generally designed. But there are all kinds of interesting builds out there. Could my druid do much more utilizing my spells to control the battlefield, lay down hazards, summon some allies, etc? Maybe.
The problem is that if you grant full casters the spells & abilities to also be effective frontline weapon users then there is 0 reason to play anything else. Because playing the full-caster now gives you all the benefits of being a frontline weapon user AND all the benefits of being a full caster at the same time. Whereas everyone else has to choose to be one or the other.
This is why the half-caster class design is good, it give people who want a bit of both an option, but to get the benefits of that flexibility they sacrifice not being as good at either aspect than a character that specializes - so their casting isn't as good as a full caster, and their martial prowess isn't as good as a full martial.
Flexibility in itself is a powerful ability, so there MUST be a trade-off.
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9th level Druid using Shilleigh and True Strike (Gained from Magic Initiate)
1d10 [Shillelagh Force damage] + 1d6 [True Strike Radiant Damage] + 1d8 [Elemental Fury Cold, Fire, Lightning, or Thunder] + 4d8 [Conjure Woodland Beings Bludgeoning, Cold, Fire, or Lightning] +4 [Wisdom Mod] = 35.5 base damage x 60% hit rate = 21.3 DPR with an AC17 [Half Plate and 14 dexterity] and ability to self heal as a BA with Healing Word.
Maybe still not the best melee character but the Druid has come a long way.
I assume you meant Conjure Minor Elementals, not Conjure Woodland Beings.
It's okay damage for a non-martial, but I don't think it's enough to be rushing into melee, you're still relatively squishy as a druid here.
Conjure Minor Elementals gets crazy on circle of the moon druid. I think they need to nerf the upcast on this one significantly, when you're casting it as a 8th level spell to add 10d8 damage per attack, it's just insane. It's cast-time is an action so losing the 1st round of combat partly makes up for it but lasting 100 rounds, can easily cast around the corner prior to combat...
Mm... yes because every druid player's dream was to hit things with a stick...
Powergamers are known for optimizing the fun out of the game, nothing new here)
It'll be nice for Spore Druid if nothing else.
Who's to say someone might want to make a melee Nature's Warrior type character and not play Moon Druid. I mean, they gave Elemental Fury's Primal Strike option for a reason (mostly for Moon, but for others as well). Not too far off a 5E melee cleric, with Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians going at the same time. Might not be my taste, but I'm not going to say the OP is wrong to think about it.
This is what Ranger is supposed to be, to be fair. It's literally the martial equivalent to druid the way paladin is to cleric.
Thinking on it though, weapon druid feels weird mechanically the more I think about it. We get martial weapons, but the way you maximize a melee druid is to take Shillelagh and a club. So martial weapon access becomes useless.
I suppose this does let druids take a longbow, which is nice. You can build DEX instead of CON and lean on your Longbow damage rather than a cantrip.
Though now the best melee weapon for druid outside Shillelagh is the rapier rather than the scimitar. Druid with a rapier feels off to me. Would rather be good at using an axe or warclub but both of those use STR and druids are too mad to build STR too.
With Magic Initiate, True Strike, and Warden, the Druid can use any weapon they wish utilizing their wisdom modifier for attack and damage bonus.
Go ahead, fire off that Longbow at a distance, then attack with an axe inflicting radiant damage on hits. =))
Shillelagh with True Strike is probably your best bet for close range, but the world is at your fingertips!
My point is, it's not up to anyone on these forums to say "you're playing the class wrong" or "that's <insert class's> job." If someone wants to play a martial druid, they can, and WotC provided a method to do so. If someone wanted to play a martial cleric, they can as well. It may not be optimal compared to playing the class as it was generally designed. But there are all kinds of interesting builds out there. Could my druid do much more utilizing my spells to control the battlefield, lay down hazards, summon some allies, etc? Maybe.
Feel free to play a combat druid by loading up on feats, favoring STR + DEX, proficiencies that buff weapon damage & AC. Will likely resemble the DPR of a Cleric, but not the AC.
Started playing 1e in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in the last year.
The problem is that if you grant full casters the spells & abilities to also be effective frontline weapon users then there is 0 reason to play anything else. Because playing the full-caster now gives you all the benefits of being a frontline weapon user AND all the benefits of being a full caster at the same time. Whereas everyone else has to choose to be one or the other.
This is why the half-caster class design is good, it give people who want a bit of both an option, but to get the benefits of that flexibility they sacrifice not being as good at either aspect than a character that specializes - so their casting isn't as good as a full caster, and their martial prowess isn't as good as a full martial.
Flexibility in itself is a powerful ability, so there MUST be a trade-off.