As I read the UA8, druids gain temporary hp when they Wild Shape equal to their level (or level times three for Moon). Since temps stay until after a long rest, I read this as they could use Wild Shape to grant the temp hp and then change back to normal form (keeping the temp hp) if they choose. Is this how you all read this??
Rules While Transformed. While in a form, you retain your personality, memories, and ability to speak, and the following rules apply:
Temporary Hit Points. When you assume a Wild Shape form, you gain a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to your Druid level.
Notice how it says that these rules apply "while in a form." That means that the rule that gives you temporary hp doesn't apply when you transform back. It's unclear if that means you lose the temporary hp or not, since "apply" could be interpreted that way.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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I could definite see them staying. The “while in a form” reads as it’s for retaining personality etc. and then the following rules apply. And the temp HP only say when you assume the form you gain them. Not while in the form. So you get them when you change and that’s the end of that feature. Nothing about losing them if you change back.
I could definite see them staying. The “while in a form” reads as it’s for retaining personality etc. and then the following rules apply. And the temp HP only say when you assume the form you gain them. Not while in the form. So you get them when you change and that’s the end of that feature. Nothing about losing them if you change back.
Under the same heading are rules that definitely only apply while you're in the form, like your statistics being replaced, so it's pretty clear that the heading sentence only has one clause. Yes, the temp hp is gained when you assume the form, but if the rule that gave you the temp hp no longer "applies," an interpretation is that the temp hp that resulted from the inapplicable rule is also inapplicable.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Could stand to brush up the wording a little bit; I'd say the intent is logically that the temp HP should be associated with the form, but text itself is a touch ambiguous.
Could stand to brush up the wording a little bit; I'd say the intent is logically that the temp HP should be associated with the form, but text itself is a touch ambiguous.
I agree. The THP lasting only as long as you stay in the form may have been the intent but I, as I’ve said, can see it being read the other way. So better wording would be…well, better
The temporary HP clearly are intended while in form but the RAW gives no caveats to enforce this and so would last until the end of a long rest, I'd say.
But a crazier reading would be that you need to already be transformed and then transform again to actually get the temporary HP, obviously not intended and I doubt anybody would actually interpret it that way but just pointing it out.
Seems pretty clear to me. The introductory clause, "while in a form," applies to everything that follows. The phrase "the following rules apply" is tied to the contingency of being in a form.
The temp hit points are in place only while in wild shape. It could use an extra sentence or phrase to make it utterly unambiguous, but as is, it feels clear to me.
Seems pretty clear to me. The introductory clause, "while in a form," applies to everything that follows. The phrase "the following rules apply" is tied to the contingency of being in a form.
The temp hit points are in place only while in wild shape. It could use an extra sentence or phrase to make it utterly unambiguous, but as is, it feels clear to me.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but I definitely think it's less clear than you suggest. All the feature says is that you gain temporary hp. If it said you have temporary hp, then it would be absolutely clear, since the temp hp would obviously go away with the feature that continuously allows it, but since the feature could be seen as being hands-off after it grants the temp hp, it's significantly less clear. I think that the feature that granted the temp hp not "applying" is good enough for the temp hp to go away, though.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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As I read it, it could be interpreted as that the Wild Shape beasts that you transform into could be more powerful than their native counterparts OR the Wild Shape feature grants you additional power which could carry over from the initial transformation. I look forward to clarifying updates...
‘ too much of a bio to fit here. call me Bananer for short, I’m one of the forum’s resident insane things. I’m a nongender Therian (look it up!) and also a silver dragon (not my kintype, just a me thing.) I’m a rogue and wizard, and if you want more info on me, PM me, or ask someone else. I’m well known.
@Bananer28046, I've been playtesting the classes with my group since the beginning of the UA process for the 2024 PH. In my opinion, all of the classes are in a pretty good place now as of UA8. The last step I see is to update a few of the last of the broken spells such as simulacrum, forcecage, shield, and wish.
The Moon druid is most OP at L20 because of unlimited WS. That needs to be eliminated or limited, e.g., druids are limited to 1 WS per combat encounter.
Then the 2nd most OP Moon Druid is at L2. When you allow a L2 druid to WS in to a Giant Hyena with 45 HPs, and allow some CR 1 beasts with multi-attack, this kills game balance. But after L2, WS doesn't scale proportionally in L3 - L9 and so WS isn't OP at all. In fact, WS alone at L5-L9 probably do sub-standard DPR. At L10, however, Moon Druids can WS into elementals, which is a huge boost. Elementals are better than any other the other beasts of any CR because of their damage resistances, immunities, etc. IMO even at L10 as an elemental, to deliver above average DPR the Moon Druid must supplement the elemental WS with other spells, feats, etc.
The real problems are L20 (which should be an easy fix) and L2. WoTC needs to rework WS to make it scale gradually with level. This would prevent a L2 Moon Druid from WS into something like a Giant Hyena (with 45 HP). IMO the 2023 UA 8 isn't a good solution to problems noted here in 5e, and just creates new problems for game balance.
The Moon druid is most OP at L20 because of unlimited WS. That needs to be eliminated or limited, e.g., druids are limited to 1 WS per combat encounter.
Then the 2nd most OP Moon Druid is at L2. When you allow a L2 druid to WS in to a Giant Hyena with 45 HPs, and allow some CR 1 beasts with multi-attack, this kills game balance. But after L2, WS doesn't scale proportionally in L3 - L9 and so WS isn't OP at all. In fact, WS alone at L5-L9 probably do sub-standard DPR. At L10, however, Moon Druids can WS into elementals, which is a huge boost. Elementals are better than any other the other beasts of any CR because of their damage resistances, immunities, etc. IMO even at L10 as an elemental, to deliver above average DPR the Moon Druid must supplement the elemental WS with other spells, feats, etc.
The real problems are L20 (which should be an easy fix) and L2. WoTC needs to rework WS to make it scale gradually with level. This would prevent a L2 Moon Druid from WS into something like a Giant Hyena (with 45 HP). IMO the 2023 UA 8 isn't a good solution to problems noted here in 5e, and just creates new problems for game balance.
I disagree. UA 8 Druids are in a good place.
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As I read the UA8, druids gain temporary hp when they Wild Shape equal to their level (or level times three for Moon). Since temps stay until after a long rest, I read this as they could use Wild Shape to grant the temp hp and then change back to normal form (keeping the temp hp) if they choose. Is this how you all read this??
yes
I'm less sure on the wording.
Notice how it says that these rules apply "while in a form." That means that the rule that gives you temporary hp doesn't apply when you transform back. It's unclear if that means you lose the temporary hp or not, since "apply" could be interpreted that way.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
I could definite see them staying. The “while in a form” reads as it’s for retaining personality etc. and then the following rules apply. And the temp HP only say when you assume the form you gain them. Not while in the form. So you get them when you change and that’s the end of that feature. Nothing about losing them if you change back.
Under the same heading are rules that definitely only apply while you're in the form, like your statistics being replaced, so it's pretty clear that the heading sentence only has one clause. Yes, the temp hp is gained when you assume the form, but if the rule that gave you the temp hp no longer "applies," an interpretation is that the temp hp that resulted from the inapplicable rule is also inapplicable.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Could stand to brush up the wording a little bit; I'd say the intent is logically that the temp HP should be associated with the form, but text itself is a touch ambiguous.
I agree. The THP lasting only as long as you stay in the form may have been the intent but I, as I’ve said, can see it being read the other way. So better wording would be…well, better
The temporary HP clearly are intended while in form but the RAW gives no caveats to enforce this and so would last until the end of a long rest, I'd say.
But a crazier reading would be that you need to already be transformed and then transform again to actually get the temporary HP, obviously not intended and I doubt anybody would actually interpret it that way but just pointing it out.
Seems pretty clear to me. The introductory clause, "while in a form," applies to everything that follows. The phrase "the following rules apply" is tied to the contingency of being in a form.
The temp hit points are in place only while in wild shape. It could use an extra sentence or phrase to make it utterly unambiguous, but as is, it feels clear to me.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but I definitely think it's less clear than you suggest. All the feature says is that you gain temporary hp. If it said you have temporary hp, then it would be absolutely clear, since the temp hp would obviously go away with the feature that continuously allows it, but since the feature could be seen as being hands-off after it grants the temp hp, it's significantly less clear. I think that the feature that granted the temp hp not "applying" is good enough for the temp hp to go away, though.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
As I read it, it could be interpreted as that the Wild Shape beasts that you transform into could be more powerful than their native counterparts OR the Wild Shape feature grants you additional power which could carry over from the initial transformation. I look forward to clarifying updates...
Ummmmm druids are a bit too OP for my opinion
‘ too much of a bio to fit here. call me Bananer for short, I’m one of the forum’s resident insane things. I’m a nongender Therian (look it up!) and also a silver dragon (not my kintype, just a me thing.) I’m a rogue and wizard, and if you want more info on me, PM me, or ask someone else. I’m well known.
PM ME THE WORD BANANA! PRAISE JEFF! Check out my support thread! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/195676-just-a-support-thread
@Bananer28046, I've been playtesting the classes with my group since the beginning of the UA process for the 2024 PH. In my opinion, all of the classes are in a pretty good place now as of UA8. The last step I see is to update a few of the last of the broken spells such as simulacrum, forcecage, shield, and wish.
The Moon druid is most OP at L20 because of unlimited WS. That needs to be eliminated or limited, e.g., druids are limited to 1 WS per combat encounter.
Then the 2nd most OP Moon Druid is at L2. When you allow a L2 druid to WS in to a Giant Hyena with 45 HPs, and allow some CR 1 beasts with multi-attack, this kills game balance. But after L2, WS doesn't scale proportionally in L3 - L9 and so WS isn't OP at all. In fact, WS alone at L5-L9 probably do sub-standard DPR. At L10, however, Moon Druids can WS into elementals, which is a huge boost. Elementals are better than any other the other beasts of any CR because of their damage resistances, immunities, etc. IMO even at L10 as an elemental, to deliver above average DPR the Moon Druid must supplement the elemental WS with other spells, feats, etc.
The real problems are L20 (which should be an easy fix) and L2. WoTC needs to rework WS to make it scale gradually with level. This would prevent a L2 Moon Druid from WS into something like a Giant Hyena (with 45 HP). IMO the 2023 UA 8 isn't a good solution to problems noted here in 5e, and just creates new problems for game balance.
Started playing 1e in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in the last year.
The latest playtest eliminates that huge HP buff for Moon Druid. Unlimited WS is also gone.
I disagree. UA 8 Druids are in a good place.