that is not what i meant (of course any damage progression that stacks with other damage progressions will be strong, that is why the rouge/ fighter will be so potent in this setting) but like what do you do if somebody wants to play a wizard / sorcerer? do you just pretend that the spellcasting of each side is sepperate, giving them twice the spells of a caster their level? do you combine their sorcerer and wizard levels for determining their caster level? do you just give them the same spell slots as a single-classed caster?
But it illustrates a point, ya know? You have to have separate spell slot counts, otherwise it creates a situation where nearly no one will have a gestalt character of two classes with Spellcasting feature. Balance has gone out the window already, after all, but we still need to ensure something that looks "fair and fun." And if you get warlock spell slots with your sorcerer, but not bard ones... it feels unfair, and thus less fun.
The next real question is "ASI/Feat" levels. Followed by "Multiclassing Y/N?" How do you handle getting 4 attribute points at level 4? Or two feats? Do you want to handle that? If you want to just combine them and only want one at level 4... that then forces you to remove the ability to multiclass, since it staggers the ASIs.
The next real question is "ASI/Feat" levels. Followed by "Multiclassing Y/N?" How do you handle getting 4 attribute points at level 4? Or two feats? Do you want to handle that? If you want to just combine them and only want one at level 4... that then forces you to remove the ability to multiclass, since it staggers the ASIs.
yeah like this was covered in 3e by the fact that ASI's were not connected to levels, the "spirit" of the rules is that if both give you the same thing, you get the better thing and not both, that is why you get the better hit dice, the better BAB, the better save bonus for your level instead of adding both onto eachother (a 1st level FightBarb still has +1 BaB, not +2), and when both classes give you the same class feature it says "Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class." so the most logical interpretation is that if both give you ASI, you get it once, plus extra times for extra ASI's if you are a fighter
But then that of course leaves the question of "disconnecting" class progressions, if you say are a (rouge 5/sorcerer 1)// fighter 6 so that you got your level 4 rouge ASI at 5th level giving you three ASI's at this point, something that would also have to be resolved
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Maybe that's why gestalt really doesn't have a lot of traction in 5e. Its fundamentally just another way of multiclassing, and people are just happy with the amount of multiclassing available?
In 3e, it was pretty hard to multiclass a cleric and a wizard, even with the prestige class specifically designed for that. In 4e, we had the hybrid class rules. But in 5e, we can just take the Arcane Domain cleric, maybe dip a level or two, maybe take the feat, and people are happy with it?
Maybe that's why gestalt really doesn't have a lot of traction in 5e. Its fundamentally just another way of multiclassing, and people are just happy with the amount of multiclassing available?
In 3e, it was pretty hard to multiclass a cleric and a wizard, even with the prestige class specifically designed for that. In 4e, we had the hybrid class rules. But in 5e, we can just take the Arcane Domain cleric, maybe dip a level or two, maybe take the feat, and people are happy with it?
Dunno, just guessing.
yeah like i said, hybrid classing feels right in 3rd edition becuase you have all these fundamental progressions that do not stack with eachother from spellcasting to ASI's to feats to just your base save modifiers, a hybrid character is not always going to be that much more powerful, and similarly in pathfinder there was never such a thing as multiclassing in the sense of 5e, just multiclass archetypes letting you assume some of the powers of another class, every class is formatted the same way so they can just say that skill improvements and ASI's and general / racial feats do not stack and a lot of your power is derived from your level alone, and well in 5e those things just are not a factor and the game just is not the right enviorment for the concept, multiclassing is the way 5e works, the way its designed, this alternate system is not quite right for it
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Moon Druid/Abjuration Wizard seems like an insane combo, especially once you reach lvl 20. It's somewhat a MAD combination, but str, con and dex don't matter as much to a druid anyway when you have wild-shape. At level 20, you have full spellcasting, with the most complete spell list in the game, including wish, counterspell, dispel magic, fireball, a ton of damage dealing cantrips and spells, and a whole lot more. You're able to cast most of those spells in wildshape. On top of that, you have infinite wildshapes to soak damage (the wizard's one weakness), a higher average AC in those wildshapes as you would as the wizard (especially for elementals), an arcane ward to soak EVEN MORE damage, infinite uses of shield to make your AC +5 better, resistance to spell damage, advantage on spell saves (which is very useful for moon druid, who is going to be targeted by a lot of saves to stun, instakill, break wildshape, etc), resistance against non-magical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing (so most regular attacks), resistance or immunity to other specific damage types depending on the elemental, decent damage in wildshape, including multi-attack in a number of forms. You're also immune to most conditions in elemental form. Also, your proficiency bonus is added to your counterspelling and dispel magic as well. That doesn't even including other wildshapes that make you amazing purely utility wise, as well as free alter self at will (hello changeling disguise shenanigans).
So, in short, busted health, typical busted high end wizard spells, resistance to almost all damage, decent dps, massive utility, immunity to the majority of conditions. Oh, and you can heal in wildshape, although I honestly don't know why you'd waste your spell slots on that - at least at level 20.
Moon Druid/Abjuration Wizard seems like an insane combo, especially once you reach lvl 20. It's somewhat a MAD combination, but str, con and dex don't matter as much to a druid anyway when you have wild-shape. At level 20, you have full spellcasting, with the most complete spell list in the game, including wish, counterspell, dispel magic, fireball, a ton of damage dealing cantrips and spells, and a whole lot more. You're able to cast most of those spells in wildshape. On top of that, you have infinite wildshapes to soak damage (the wizard's one weakness), a higher average AC in those wildshapes as you would as the wizard (especially for elementals), an arcane ward to soak EVEN MORE damage, infinite uses of shield to make your AC +5 better, resistance to spell damage, advantage on spell saves (which is very useful for moon druid, who is going to be targeted by a lot of saves to stun, instakill, break wildshape, etc), resistance against non-magical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing (so most regular attacks), resistance or immunity to other specific damage types depending on the elemental, decent damage in wildshape, including multi-attack in a number of forms. You're also immune to most conditions in elemental form. Also, your proficiency bonus is added to your counterspelling and dispel magic as well. That doesn't even including other wildshapes that make you amazing purely utility wise, as well as free alter self at will (hello changeling disguise shenanigans).
So, in short, busted health, typical busted high end wizard spells, resistance to almost all damage, decent dps, massive utility, immunity to the majority of conditions. Oh, and you can heal in wildshape, although I honestly don't know why you'd waste your spell slots on that - at least at level 20.
circle of stars would not be bad either for a druid/ abjuration wizard gestalt, as the skill floor on intelegence checks combined with enhanced dispelling/ counterspelling means a 100% chance to dispel/ counterspell anything, but we have already mentioned that bit
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I really wish DDB would support more customization so we could use Gestalt as well... homebrew is a rampant part of the game, it's kind of annoying that these things are artificially limited.
I think you could homebrew a subclass that artificially copies tons of effects from another class. It's just an abnoxious amount of work that I'm sure some hobbyists would program if they were allowed.
I really wish DDB would support more customization so we could use Gestalt as well... homebrew is a rampant part of the game, it's kind of annoying that these things are artificially limited.
I think you could homebrew a subclass that artificially copies tons of effects from another class. It's just an abnoxious amount of work that I'm sure some hobbyists would program if they were allowed.
Customization on such a large level as to allow full-on classes to be built on here would require a lot of work for a feature not a lot of people will use
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
one of the biggest limiting factors when it comes to gestalt characters in 3.5 is action economy. you may have all the abilities but you can't really go too crazy per round. thus, in a 5e gestalt, you'd want character classes and archetypes that have abilities which don't burn through your action economy as hard.
this makes me wanna gravitate toward classes such as the battle master fighter or psi warrior fighter alongside a casting class like warlock which you milk for bonus action based combat utility rather than the flashier standard action spells. what's nice about battle master and psiwar is that they have abilities which you can proc without expending any actions, leaving you free to multiattack, proc a fighter ability and use a bonus action spell all in one turn before using any action surges.
Fighter [battle master] // Warlock [hexblade] seems like a fun combo
for weapons i advise grabbing a versatile one like longsword or warhammer. they lack the two handed property so they work with hex warrior, which'll be important early-mid in your adventuring career. a trident would be cool as **** but mechanically not that great since you have access to eldritch blast, so why would you even want the option to throw your weapon?
good spells to have for action economy are shield [1st] (reaction, +5 AC very nice), hex [1st] (bonus action to do extra damage for a while; like a smite but it stays on the field), expeditious retreat [1st] (bonus action dash can save your or a comrades' life easily), misty step [2nd] (better expeditious retreat), blink [3rd] (not so great for action economy, but a solid buff and basically 50% chance the enemy just can't attack you without concentration is really nice. in the right situations, this can be a great use of an action surge, and its the best alternative you have to mirror image) spirit shroud [4th] (several d8s of bonus damage on every hit, not locked to a single enemy like hex. you want this up as much as possible), far step [5th] (misty step but now you can spam it as long as you concentrate).
maddening and relentless hex are just cheating for you. you can also grab pact of the blade for some pact weapon buffs, but honestly you should be such a competent melee combatant that utility magic and invocations might be worth splurging on by now for out of combat use. mystic arcanum isn't really that great for buffing your melee stuff, and by 10th level your newer warlock abilities really don't feed into melee as much. if you don't think you need the extra spell slots you can start multiclassing elsewhere at around 12. or 10, if you dont care about the ability bonus, being a highly single ability dependant character already. just dont ignore that DEX score, you want a decent one for battle master DCs. wanna proc trip attack basically as much as possible for advantage.
that paired with the increased hexblade crit range and the large amount of attacks youll be making should let you throw piles of dice if you have a buff up. you'll feel like a rogue, just a bit. enjoy throwing literal piles of damage dice every time you hit a target, being a semi capable buff caster in combat and a semi capable utility caster out of combat. maybe grab some bard levels to get haste and make the action economy break even more.
also always remember to keep some kind of buff up to stop yourself from taking damage. you have CON save proficiency which is nice and youll probably max out your CON score, but you really really don't wanna lose concentration due to your very limited supply of spell slots.
Armorer Artificer + bladesinger wizard. Put some light armor on as your arcane armor and activate blade dance, never get hit again. Fear the wizard/Artificer you cant touch.
I want to make a barb/champion fighter or a Oathbreaker paladin/hexblade. I just need an easy way to replicate it on the character builder
The only way to make DnD beyond replicate a Gestalt character is to go to subclass creator and make a subclass that has all the features of the main subclass you want, the 2nd class you want and the 2nd subclass you want. Example for Oathbreaker/Hexblade you would go create a Paladin subclass based on the Oathbreaker. Then you would add all the features of warlock class and Hexblade subclass to this subclass. I’m not sure if it will allow you to easily add pact slots, pact boon, and invocations selections. If not just add your selections as features and your pact slots as a charges of a feature so you have something on the character page to click as a reminder.
I saw Gestalt Rules for 5e out on the web, and it basically said:
Except for Extra Attack, when you get the same feature twice (Unarmored Defense, etc), if it has the same exact benefit, you only get it once: it doesn’t stack. If it’s like Unarmored Defense where each one has a different calculation, you get both but they don’t stack (just like multiclassing: you pick which calculation you use at any given moment).
The above also applies to the core 5 ASI/Feats: you get one at each of 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and (in 1DD) 19th levels. You do not get “one per Gestalt track”. But the Fighter and Rogue bonus Feats do stack on this.
For the basic Extra Attack (one extra attack per Attack action), if you get it more than once VIA GESTALT (not via Multiclassing), then you get a Feat for each duplicate. For the more advanced versions you get Fighter, those are effectively their own feature: you get them.
Spell slots: You get the best calculation from each separate Gestalt “track” (ie. you could multicast within a single gestalt track, and you calculate that track’s spell slots individually within that track).
Same with HP: you do the normal rules within each Gestalt track, and then pick the HP from whichever track has the best total.
Character creation 1st level skills: you get the pics from one of your 1st level classes, not all of them. (but you get all of your first level bonus skills, like from a Divine Order or in the 5e rules: skills from a cleric domain at 1st level do stack, because they’re not your character creation skills).
And obviously, you get your race/species and background stuff as normal. But you don’t get multiples of those, because race and background aren’t part of gestalt.
I mention Gestalt Tracks: that’s my own idea. Think of it like columns in a spread sheet. Each column is a 20 level normal rules class progression. When I work up a Gestalt, I only allow a class to be in one column (so if you multi class in one column, you cannot then take levels in those classes in another column, trying to shore up missed levels somewhere else).
And all of the above should work fine for 1DD (bringing this back on topic for UA).
(the other quirk I have to my own gestalt rules is: Awakened Greatwyrms might have a different class for each of their multiverse incarnations… so when they merge into a greatwyrm, each incarnation is a separate gestalt track… which means Greatwyrms with levels become exponentially more epic).
I want to make a barb/champion fighter or a Oathbreaker paladin/hexblade. I just need an easy way to replicate it on the character builder
The only way to make DnD beyond replicate a Gestalt character is to go to subclass creator and make a subclass that has all the features of the main subclass you want, the 2nd class you want and the 2nd subclass you want. Example for Oathbreaker/Hexblade you would go create a Paladin subclass based on the Oathbreaker. Then you would add all the features of warlock class and Hexblade subclass to this subclass. I’m not sure if it will allow you to easily add pact slots, pact boon, and invocations selections. If not just add your selections as features and your pact slots as a charges of a feature so you have something on the character page to click as a reminder.
That wouldn’t exactly do the trick. You couldn’t be a 20th level fighter + 20th level rogue that way. But a Gestalt could.
You have to develop each gestalt track/path as a separate character, and then manually merge them on paper. If you’re using 1DD as your die roller, you probably need to have both/all sheets open at once in separate windows so that you can button click on whichever sheet that feature exists upon.
I want to make a barb/champion fighter or a Oathbreaker paladin/hexblade. I just need an easy way to replicate it on the character builder
The only way to make DnD beyond replicate a Gestalt character is to go to subclass creator and make a subclass that has all the features of the main subclass you want, the 2nd class you want and the 2nd subclass you want. Example for Oathbreaker/Hexblade you would go create a Paladin subclass based on the Oathbreaker. Then you would add all the features of warlock class and Hexblade subclass to this subclass. I’m not sure if it will allow you to easily add pact slots, pact boon, and invocations selections. If not just add your selections as features and your pact slots as a charges of a feature so you have something on the character page to click as a reminder.
That wouldn’t exactly do the trick. You couldn’t be a 20th level fighter + 20th level rogue that way. But a Gestalt could.
You have to develop each gestalt track/path as a separate character, and then manually merge them on paper. If you’re using 1DD as your die roller, you probably need to have both/all sheets open at once in separate windows so that you can button click on whichever sheet that feature exists upon.
They asked how to do it on the character builder. I answered their question. Also you would be a level 20 fighter with all the features of a level 20 rogue on one page on your character sheet. So yeah that would exactly do the trick.
For 5e gestalt you probably don't want the complications of multi classing on both sides of the Gestalt.
I run a 5e gestalt game and it's great, but the DM has to be very careful about the action economy in the game, ESPECIALLY with larger groups.
CR is really about a fundamental effective damage per round, and your players are only going to have so much in the way of HP. The closer you match that projector to actual. Different monsters (especially magic users with fireball+ can really skew the average. So can bad PC tactics... Lightning bolt down the hall.... Ouch...
It's a learning curve for each group as well.... And my experience with PCs is that they will eventually learn not to get in over their heads....
For 5e gestalt you probably don't want the complications of multi classing on both sides of the Gestalt.
While I agrre that it’s a headache of complication in practice, I also think any set of rules that isn’t robust enough to account for it is an insufficiently robust set of rules. Same for wording the rules in a way that scales past 2 tracks (even though almost no one should want to go there). And the wording to account for those doesn’t require excessive minutiae nor crunch (which would be the only reason I would see to avoid rules that are worded to address those two things).
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But it illustrates a point, ya know? You have to have separate spell slot counts, otherwise it creates a situation where nearly no one will have a gestalt character of two classes with Spellcasting feature. Balance has gone out the window already, after all, but we still need to ensure something that looks "fair and fun." And if you get warlock spell slots with your sorcerer, but not bard ones... it feels unfair, and thus less fun.
The next real question is "ASI/Feat" levels. Followed by "Multiclassing Y/N?" How do you handle getting 4 attribute points at level 4? Or two feats? Do you want to handle that? If you want to just combine them and only want one at level 4... that then forces you to remove the ability to multiclass, since it staggers the ASIs.
yeah like this was covered in 3e by the fact that ASI's were not connected to levels, the "spirit" of the rules is that if both give you the same thing, you get the better thing and not both, that is why you get the better hit dice, the better BAB, the better save bonus for your level instead of adding both onto eachother (a 1st level FightBarb still has +1 BaB, not +2), and when both classes give you the same class feature it says "Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class." so the most logical interpretation is that if both give you ASI, you get it once, plus extra times for extra ASI's if you are a fighter
But then that of course leaves the question of "disconnecting" class progressions, if you say are a (rouge 5/sorcerer 1)// fighter 6 so that you got your level 4 rouge ASI at 5th level giving you three ASI's at this point, something that would also have to be resolved
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Mmhm. If it wasn't for multiclassing, it'd be an easy question.
I've never been a fan of multiclassing with gestalt. Just seems too broken and munchkin-ey.
Maybe that's why gestalt really doesn't have a lot of traction in 5e. Its fundamentally just another way of multiclassing, and people are just happy with the amount of multiclassing available?
In 3e, it was pretty hard to multiclass a cleric and a wizard, even with the prestige class specifically designed for that. In 4e, we had the hybrid class rules. But in 5e, we can just take the Arcane Domain cleric, maybe dip a level or two, maybe take the feat, and people are happy with it?
Dunno, just guessing.
yeah like i said, hybrid classing feels right in 3rd edition becuase you have all these fundamental progressions that do not stack with eachother from spellcasting to ASI's to feats to just your base save modifiers, a hybrid character is not always going to be that much more powerful, and similarly in pathfinder there was never such a thing as multiclassing in the sense of 5e, just multiclass archetypes letting you assume some of the powers of another class, every class is formatted the same way so they can just say that skill improvements and ASI's and general / racial feats do not stack and a lot of your power is derived from your level alone, and well in 5e those things just are not a factor and the game just is not the right enviorment for the concept, multiclassing is the way 5e works, the way its designed, this alternate system is not quite right for it
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Moon Druid/Abjuration Wizard seems like an insane combo, especially once you reach lvl 20. It's somewhat a MAD combination, but str, con and dex don't matter as much to a druid anyway when you have wild-shape. At level 20, you have full spellcasting, with the most complete spell list in the game, including wish, counterspell, dispel magic, fireball, a ton of damage dealing cantrips and spells, and a whole lot more. You're able to cast most of those spells in wildshape. On top of that, you have infinite wildshapes to soak damage (the wizard's one weakness), a higher average AC in those wildshapes as you would as the wizard (especially for elementals), an arcane ward to soak EVEN MORE damage, infinite uses of shield to make your AC +5 better, resistance to spell damage, advantage on spell saves (which is very useful for moon druid, who is going to be targeted by a lot of saves to stun, instakill, break wildshape, etc), resistance against non-magical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing (so most regular attacks), resistance or immunity to other specific damage types depending on the elemental, decent damage in wildshape, including multi-attack in a number of forms. You're also immune to most conditions in elemental form. Also, your proficiency bonus is added to your counterspelling and dispel magic as well. That doesn't even including other wildshapes that make you amazing purely utility wise, as well as free alter self at will (hello changeling disguise shenanigans).
So, in short, busted health, typical busted high end wizard spells, resistance to almost all damage, decent dps, massive utility, immunity to the majority of conditions. Oh, and you can heal in wildshape, although I honestly don't know why you'd waste your spell slots on that - at least at level 20.
circle of stars would not be bad either for a druid/ abjuration wizard gestalt, as the skill floor on intelegence checks combined with enhanced dispelling/ counterspelling means a 100% chance to dispel/ counterspell anything, but we have already mentioned that bit
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I really wish DDB would support more customization so we could use Gestalt as well... homebrew is a rampant part of the game, it's kind of annoying that these things are artificially limited.
I think you could homebrew a subclass that artificially copies tons of effects from another class. It's just an abnoxious amount of work that I'm sure some hobbyists would program if they were allowed.
Customization on such a large level as to allow full-on classes to be built on here would require a lot of work for a feature not a lot of people will use
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
one of the biggest limiting factors when it comes to gestalt characters in 3.5 is action economy. you may have all the abilities but you can't really go too crazy per round. thus, in a 5e gestalt, you'd want character classes and archetypes that have abilities which don't burn through your action economy as hard.
this makes me wanna gravitate toward classes such as the battle master fighter or psi warrior fighter alongside a casting class like warlock which you milk for bonus action based combat utility rather than the flashier standard action spells. what's nice about battle master and psiwar is that they have abilities which you can proc without expending any actions, leaving you free to multiattack, proc a fighter ability and use a bonus action spell all in one turn before using any action surges.
Fighter [battle master] // Warlock [hexblade] seems like a fun combo
for weapons i advise grabbing a versatile one like longsword or warhammer. they lack the two handed property so they work with hex warrior, which'll be important early-mid in your adventuring career. a trident would be cool as **** but mechanically not that great since you have access to eldritch blast, so why would you even want the option to throw your weapon?
good spells to have for action economy are shield [1st] (reaction, +5 AC very nice), hex [1st] (bonus action to do extra damage for a while; like a smite but it stays on the field), expeditious retreat [1st] (bonus action dash can save your or a comrades' life easily), misty step [2nd] (better expeditious retreat), blink [3rd] (not so great for action economy, but a solid buff and basically 50% chance the enemy just can't attack you without concentration is really nice. in the right situations, this can be a great use of an action surge, and its the best alternative you have to mirror image) spirit shroud [4th] (several d8s of bonus damage on every hit, not locked to a single enemy like hex. you want this up as much as possible), far step [5th] (misty step but now you can spam it as long as you concentrate).
maddening and relentless hex are just cheating for you. you can also grab pact of the blade for some pact weapon buffs, but honestly you should be such a competent melee combatant that utility magic and invocations might be worth splurging on by now for out of combat use. mystic arcanum isn't really that great for buffing your melee stuff, and by 10th level your newer warlock abilities really don't feed into melee as much. if you don't think you need the extra spell slots you can start multiclassing elsewhere at around 12. or 10, if you dont care about the ability bonus, being a highly single ability dependant character already. just dont ignore that DEX score, you want a decent one for battle master DCs. wanna proc trip attack basically as much as possible for advantage.
that paired with the increased hexblade crit range and the large amount of attacks youll be making should let you throw piles of dice if you have a buff up. you'll feel like a rogue, just a bit. enjoy throwing literal piles of damage dice every time you hit a target, being a semi capable buff caster in combat and a semi capable utility caster out of combat. maybe grab some bard levels to get haste and make the action economy break even more.
also always remember to keep some kind of buff up to stop yourself from taking damage. you have CON save proficiency which is nice and youll probably max out your CON score, but you really really don't wanna lose concentration due to your very limited supply of spell slots.
I want to make a barb/champion fighter or a Oathbreaker paladin/hexblade. I just need an easy way to replicate it on the character builder
Armorer Artificer + bladesinger wizard. Put some light armor on as your arcane armor and activate blade dance, never get hit again. Fear the wizard/Artificer you cant touch.
The only way to make DnD beyond replicate a Gestalt character is to go to subclass creator and make a subclass that has all the features of the main subclass you want, the 2nd class you want and the 2nd subclass you want. Example for Oathbreaker/Hexblade you would go create a Paladin subclass based on the Oathbreaker. Then you would add all the features of warlock class and Hexblade subclass to this subclass. I’m not sure if it will allow you to easily add pact slots, pact boon, and invocations selections. If not just add your selections as features and your pact slots as a charges of a feature so you have something on the character page to click as a reminder.
I saw Gestalt Rules for 5e out on the web, and it basically said:
Except for Extra Attack, when you get the same feature twice (Unarmored Defense, etc), if it has the same exact benefit, you only get it once: it doesn’t stack. If it’s like Unarmored Defense where each one has a different calculation, you get both but they don’t stack (just like multiclassing: you pick which calculation you use at any given moment).
The above also applies to the core 5 ASI/Feats: you get one at each of 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and (in 1DD) 19th levels. You do not get “one per Gestalt track”. But the Fighter and Rogue bonus Feats do stack on this.
For the basic Extra Attack (one extra attack per Attack action), if you get it more than once VIA GESTALT (not via Multiclassing), then you get a Feat for each duplicate. For the more advanced versions you get Fighter, those are effectively their own feature: you get them.
Spell slots: You get the best calculation from each separate Gestalt “track” (ie. you could multicast within a single gestalt track, and you calculate that track’s spell slots individually within that track).
Same with HP: you do the normal rules within each Gestalt track, and then pick the HP from whichever track has the best total.
Character creation 1st level skills: you get the pics from one of your 1st level classes, not all of them. (but you get all of your first level bonus skills, like from a Divine Order or in the 5e rules: skills from a cleric domain at 1st level do stack, because they’re not your character creation skills).
And obviously, you get your race/species and background stuff as normal. But you don’t get multiples of those, because race and background aren’t part of gestalt.
I mention Gestalt Tracks: that’s my own idea. Think of it like columns in a spread sheet. Each column is a 20 level normal rules class progression. When I work up a Gestalt, I only allow a class to be in one column (so if you multi class in one column, you cannot then take levels in those classes in another column, trying to shore up missed levels somewhere else).
And all of the above should work fine for 1DD (bringing this back on topic for UA).
(the other quirk I have to my own gestalt rules is: Awakened Greatwyrms might have a different class for each of their multiverse incarnations… so when they merge into a greatwyrm, each incarnation is a separate gestalt track… which means Greatwyrms with levels become exponentially more epic).
That wouldn’t exactly do the trick. You couldn’t be a 20th level fighter + 20th level rogue that way. But a Gestalt could.
You have to develop each gestalt track/path as a separate character, and then manually merge them on paper. If you’re using 1DD as your die roller, you probably need to have both/all sheets open at once in separate windows so that you can button click on whichever sheet that feature exists upon.
They asked how to do it on the character builder. I answered their question. Also you would be a level 20 fighter with all the features of a level 20 rogue on one page on your character sheet. So yeah that would exactly do the trick.
For 5e gestalt you probably don't want the complications of multi classing on both sides of the Gestalt.
I run a 5e gestalt game and it's great, but the DM has to be very careful about the action economy in the game, ESPECIALLY with larger groups.
CR is really about a fundamental effective damage per round, and your players are only going to have so much in the way of HP. The closer you match that projector to actual. Different monsters (especially magic users with fireball+ can really skew the average. So can bad PC tactics... Lightning bolt down the hall.... Ouch...
It's a learning curve for each group as well.... And my experience with PCs is that they will eventually learn not to get in over their heads....
While I agrre that it’s a headache of complication in practice, I also think any set of rules that isn’t robust enough to account for it is an insufficiently robust set of rules. Same for wording the rules in a way that scales past 2 tracks (even though almost no one should want to go there). And the wording to account for those doesn’t require excessive minutiae nor crunch (which would be the only reason I would see to avoid rules that are worded to address those two things).