You can still make a Warlock without Eldritch Blast, Hex, Agonizing Blast. Sure, you can argue for the last one, and maaaybe even the second one, but blast really should be a baseline Warlock ability. No other class in the game has obvious class features that numerous other class features reference or hook into as optional choices, presented at the same level as other choices. Imagine if the Fighter could choose between a skill proficiency and Action Surge, or if Barbarian had Rage as an optional feature. Why do you figure that is?
Well, I agree that Eldritch Blast should be a class feature as opposed to one spell on a list you can pick from. My guess is that it's because there is no feature that mandates Eldritch Blast for, and everything building upon it are Eldritch Invocations.
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there's at least one outspoken person on the forums who would rake this argument over the coals using celestial patron. anyone else might wonder why a fiend patron warlock wouldn't be allowed to have all the firebolt fun they wanted. even goo locks, some of the most eldritch and aberrant of the subclasses, might prefer psychic flavors of damage over eldritch blast.
you might also ask why someone could be allowed to create a ranger without a longbow. well... because. that's why.
Technically they do recommend you pick EB, both in the 2014 Warlock ("Quick Build") and the UA7 one ("Rather than choosing...), and new players are probably going to follow their advice.
But remember also that they're not done designing these classes just because the playtest is over. We don't yet know if EB will be a Warlock exclusive again or open to everyone via Magic Initiate.
My archer blade locks don't take EB at all. That said, I really really hope they revert back to the UA update version of EB. I accept that the superior warlock is dead on arrival, but they really need to make it a warlock only class feature that scales on warlock level.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
devil's advocate, none of these are needed for pact of the blade. Then devil's devil's advocate, while not needed for pact of the blade, it's still nice to have as a back-up option for whatever reason.
Personally, I think Eldritch Blast should be a class feature, since for most warlocks it is an instrumental part of the class and moving things to the spell lists makes it harder to see what the intended design of a class actually is.
there's at least one outspoken person on the forums who would rake this argument over the coals using celestial patron. anyone else might wonder why a fiend patron warlock wouldn't be allowed to have all the firebolt fun they wanted. even goo locks, some of the most eldritch and aberrant of the subclasses, might prefer psychic flavors of damage over eldritch blast.
you might also ask why someone could be allowed to create a ranger without a longbow. well... because. that's why.
Eldritch Blast could be adapted to have an alternative damage type based on patron (people have suggested this before on multiple occasions), so it'd basically be the same thing, still do not understand why they haven't done this actually, very few things resist force and so it mostly only applies to when fighting things weak to the alternative element.
I would also say, I wish that your patron flavored your eldritch blast. Force is a cheap cop out. Fiendlocks should have fire damage EB, undead warlocks should have necrotic EB, Celestials should have radiant, etc.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I like this, but I'd suggest the warlock gets a choice when casting - Force or a Patron flavored damage type such as Fire, Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant. This could kick in when the warlock gets their patron. In fact, I think I'll add this to my warlock tweaks.
I, personally, like the change they made to allow you to apply basically all the Eldritch-Blast-based Eldritch Invocations to other cantrips. Of course, Eldritch Blast is largely still the best cantrip to do this with... very few creatures resist Force damage, the range is solid, and it actually makes multiple attacks with a single casting. But with how customizable the Warlock class is in general, it's kind of a failure of design that Warlocks are still largely known for just "Hex + Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast", since it's so obviously superior to other options. I think the change doesn't "fix" this problem, but at least it opens up some more variety of playstyles for Warlocks, and I'd rather see them expand on that concept instead of just making Eldritch Blast a class feature and assuming that everyone is just going to want to use that one specific combo.
Add Eldritch runes or word features that boost your magic related to your patron. This would provide more theme to the choice of Patron and provide versatility to the class. I know invocations do this but mainly for Eldritch Blast, let's make it for all your magics.
Sometimes you have to pause and think about what your cool idea might do to the game. If eldritch blast can do fire damage or other elemental damage it works with elemental adapt feat and more importantly it works with 6th level Celestial warlock and and Dragon sorcerer’s features. So your hit with fire EB with a level 6 celestial warlock or level 9 multi 3 warlock 6 dragon sor with AB is 1d10+(2xCha), if we combine both you can have a 12th level character that fires 3 blast 1d10+(3xCha), and two more at 1d10+Cha.
Sometimes you have to pause and think about what your cool idea might do to the game. If eldritch blast can do fire damage or other elemental damage it works with elemental adapt feat and more importantly it works with 6th level Celestial warlock and and Dragon sorcerer’s features. So your hit with fire EB with a level 6 celestial warlock or level 9 multi 3 warlock 6 dragon sor with AB is 1d10+(2xCha), if we combine both you can have a 12th level character that fires 3 blast 1d10+(3xCha), and two more at 1d10+Cha.
That’s not really game breaking for a 12th level character. It’s 1 beam doing 1d10+(3*charisma modifier) and 2 beams doing 1d10+charisma modifier each.
Especially when they’re sacrificing high level spells.
Sometimes you have to pause and think about what your cool idea might do to the game. If eldritch blast can do fire damage or other elemental damage it works with elemental adapt feat and more importantly it works with 6th level Celestial warlock and and Dragon sorcerer’s features. So your hit with fire EB with a level 6 celestial warlock or level 9 multi 3 warlock 6 dragon sor with AB is 1d10+(2xCha), if we combine both you can have a 12th level character that fires 3 blast 1d10+(3xCha), and two more at 1d10+Cha.
That’s not really game breaking for a 12th level character. It’s 1 beam doing 1d10+(3*charisma modifier) and 2 beams doing 1d10+charisma modifier each.
Especially when they’re sacrificing high level spells.
Also it is easily fixed by switching EB back to scaling off of Warlock level instead of character level, with subclasses all moved to level 3, you're delaying getting extra beams.
Sometimes you have to pause and think about what your cool idea might do to the game. If eldritch blast can do fire damage or other elemental damage it works with elemental adapt feat and more importantly it works with 6th level Celestial warlock and and Dragon sorcerer’s features. So your hit with fire EB with a level 6 celestial warlock or level 9 multi 3 warlock 6 dragon sor with AB is 1d10+(2xCha), if we combine both you can have a 12th level character that fires 3 blast 1d10+(3xCha), and two more at 1d10+Cha.
1. Not with a warlock-feature-with-warlock-levels-only-scaling eldritch blast, you're not. 2. That's... not that disgustingly overpowered for 12th level optimization around one single trick, to be honest.
There is no evidence that eldritch blast is ever going to scale on warlock levels. Even if it did it doesn’t fix the problem of the Celestial Warlock. If their eldritch blast is radiant or fire it still gets 1d10+(2xCha). If you think a flat bonus to damage isn’t broken that’s fine, but I’m not sure if you are thinking about how much more damage that would be per combat. More importantly how much more damage it is than a Warlock that isn’t getting the bonus damage. Also anyone who says the level 12 multiclass version isn’t broken isn’t thinking about minimum damage and quicken spell. 1d10+(3xCha) is likely 16 minimum damage on one hit. With quicken spell that’s 32 minimum damage per turn for a minimum of 3 turns if you hit at least once with both castings. If everything hits 28 minimum damage with a single casting of a cantrip. You can also add hex to increase damage.
I would also say, I wish that your patron flavored your eldritch blast. Force is a cheap cop out. Fiendlocks should have fire damage EB, undead warlocks should have necrotic EB, Celestials should have radiant, etc.
They shouldn't b/c that would leave Fiendlocks helpless against other fiends, undead warlocks helpless against many types of undead, etc...
I would also say, I wish that your patron flavored your eldritch blast. Force is a cheap cop out. Fiendlocks should have fire damage EB, undead warlocks should have necrotic EB, Celestials should have radiant, etc.
They shouldn't b/c that would leave Fiendlocks helpless against other fiends, undead warlocks helpless against many types of undead, etc...
Yeah, but if it were provided as a choice (so force or patron-themed damage when the Warlock attacks) then it should work fine.
There is no evidence that eldritch blast is ever going to scale on warlock levels.
The spell description in UA 5 specifically says it's based on Warlock level. That didn't get updated in UA 7, so I think it's reasonable to expect them to keep it tied to warlock levels. It would also reduce the appeal of dipping just to get EB. While the math for the celestial warlock holds up - I'd need to see how it compares to other classes at that level to see if it's broken. I'll leave that to crunch experts.
I would also say, I wish that your patron flavored your eldritch blast. Force is a cheap cop out. Fiendlocks should have fire damage EB, undead warlocks should have necrotic EB, Celestials should have radiant, etc.
They shouldn't b/c that would leave Fiendlocks helpless against other fiends, undead warlocks helpless against many types of undead, etc...
oh noes, they might have to use a different spell sometimes. The horror!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
There is no evidence that eldritch blast is ever going to scale on warlock levels.
The spell description in UA 5 specifically says it's based on Warlock level. That didn't get updated in UA 7, so I think it's reasonable to expect them to keep it tied to warlock levels. It would also reduce the appeal of dipping just to get EB. While the math for the celestial warlock holds up - I'd need to see how it compares to other classes at that level to see if it's broken. I'll leave that to crunch experts.
They said in a later UA that it was being reverted to it's 2014 version. I'll see if i can find the text again.
EDIT: It's a bullet point in spell descriptions, UA 7. It's not with the warlock changes. Since they are reverting to their 2014 versions, it means the scaling also reverts to 2014, and scales on character level rather than warlock level. IMO this reversion is a huge mistake.
Eldritch Blast and Hex revert to their 2014 versions.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
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You can still make a Warlock without Eldritch Blast, Hex, Agonizing Blast. Sure, you can argue for the last one, and maaaybe even the second one, but blast really should be a baseline Warlock ability. No other class in the game has obvious class features that numerous other class features reference or hook into as optional choices, presented at the same level as other choices. Imagine if the Fighter could choose between a skill proficiency and Action Surge, or if Barbarian had Rage as an optional feature. Why do you figure that is?
Well, I agree that Eldritch Blast should be a class feature as opposed to one spell on a list you can pick from. My guess is that it's because there is no feature that mandates Eldritch Blast for, and everything building upon it are Eldritch Invocations.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.there's at least one outspoken person on the forums who would rake this argument over the coals using celestial patron. anyone else might wonder why a fiend patron warlock wouldn't be allowed to have all the firebolt fun they wanted. even goo locks, some of the most eldritch and aberrant of the subclasses, might prefer psychic flavors of damage over eldritch blast.
you might also ask why someone could be allowed to create a ranger without a longbow. well... because. that's why.
Technically they do recommend you pick EB, both in the 2014 Warlock ("Quick Build") and the UA7 one ("Rather than choosing...), and new players are probably going to follow their advice.
But remember also that they're not done designing these classes just because the playtest is over. We don't yet know if EB will be a Warlock exclusive again or open to everyone via Magic Initiate.
My archer blade locks don't take EB at all. That said, I really really hope they revert back to the UA update version of EB. I accept that the superior warlock is dead on arrival, but they really need to make it a warlock only class feature that scales on warlock level.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
devil's advocate, none of these are needed for pact of the blade. Then devil's devil's advocate, while not needed for pact of the blade, it's still nice to have as a back-up option for whatever reason.
Personally, I think Eldritch Blast should be a class feature, since for most warlocks it is an instrumental part of the class and moving things to the spell lists makes it harder to see what the intended design of a class actually is.
Eldritch Blast could be adapted to have an alternative damage type based on patron (people have suggested this before on multiple occasions), so it'd basically be the same thing, still do not understand why they haven't done this actually, very few things resist force and so it mostly only applies to when fighting things weak to the alternative element.
I would also say, I wish that your patron flavored your eldritch blast. Force is a cheap cop out. Fiendlocks should have fire damage EB, undead warlocks should have necrotic EB, Celestials should have radiant, etc.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I like this, but I'd suggest the warlock gets a choice when casting - Force or a Patron flavored damage type such as Fire, Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant. This could kick in when the warlock gets their patron. In fact, I think I'll add this to my warlock tweaks.
Check out my books on Amazon - Jon R. Osborne
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-YXqOMcVirc
I, personally, like the change they made to allow you to apply basically all the Eldritch-Blast-based Eldritch Invocations to other cantrips. Of course, Eldritch Blast is largely still the best cantrip to do this with... very few creatures resist Force damage, the range is solid, and it actually makes multiple attacks with a single casting. But with how customizable the Warlock class is in general, it's kind of a failure of design that Warlocks are still largely known for just "Hex + Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast", since it's so obviously superior to other options. I think the change doesn't "fix" this problem, but at least it opens up some more variety of playstyles for Warlocks, and I'd rather see them expand on that concept instead of just making Eldritch Blast a class feature and assuming that everyone is just going to want to use that one specific combo.
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Add Eldritch runes or word features that boost your magic related to your patron. This would provide more theme to the choice of Patron and provide versatility to the class.
I know invocations do this but mainly for Eldritch Blast, let's make it for all your magics.
Sometimes you have to pause and think about what your cool idea might do to the game. If eldritch blast can do fire damage or other elemental damage it works with elemental adapt feat and more importantly it works with 6th level Celestial warlock and and Dragon sorcerer’s features. So your hit with fire EB with a level 6 celestial warlock or level 9 multi 3 warlock 6 dragon sor with AB is 1d10+(2xCha), if we combine both you can have a 12th level character that fires 3 blast 1d10+(3xCha), and two more at 1d10+Cha.
That’s not really game breaking for a 12th level character. It’s 1 beam doing 1d10+(3*charisma modifier) and 2 beams doing 1d10+charisma modifier each.
Especially when they’re sacrificing high level spells.
Also it is easily fixed by switching EB back to scaling off of Warlock level instead of character level, with subclasses all moved to level 3, you're delaying getting extra beams.
1. Not with a warlock-feature-with-warlock-levels-only-scaling eldritch blast, you're not.
2. That's... not that disgustingly overpowered for 12th level optimization around one single trick, to be honest.
There is no evidence that eldritch blast is ever going to scale on warlock levels. Even if it did it doesn’t fix the problem of the Celestial Warlock. If their eldritch blast is radiant or fire it still gets 1d10+(2xCha). If you think a flat bonus to damage isn’t broken that’s fine, but I’m not sure if you are thinking about how much more damage that would be per combat. More importantly how much more damage it is than a Warlock that isn’t getting the bonus damage. Also anyone who says the level 12 multiclass version isn’t broken isn’t thinking about minimum damage and quicken spell. 1d10+(3xCha) is likely 16 minimum damage on one hit. With quicken spell that’s 32 minimum damage per turn for a minimum of 3 turns if you hit at least once with both castings. If everything hits 28 minimum damage with a single casting of a cantrip. You can also add hex to increase damage.
They shouldn't b/c that would leave Fiendlocks helpless against other fiends, undead warlocks helpless against many types of undead, etc...
Yeah, but if it were provided as a choice (so force or patron-themed damage when the Warlock attacks) then it should work fine.
The spell description in UA 5 specifically says it's based on Warlock level. That didn't get updated in UA 7, so I think it's reasonable to expect them to keep it tied to warlock levels. It would also reduce the appeal of dipping just to get EB. While the math for the celestial warlock holds up - I'd need to see how it compares to other classes at that level to see if it's broken. I'll leave that to crunch experts.
Check out my books on Amazon - Jon R. Osborne
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-YXqOMcVirc
oh noes, they might have to use a different spell sometimes. The horror!
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
They said in a later UA that it was being reverted to it's 2014 version. I'll see if i can find the text again.
EDIT: It's a bullet point in spell descriptions, UA 7. It's not with the warlock changes. Since they are reverting to their 2014 versions, it means the scaling also reverts to 2014, and scales on character level rather than warlock level. IMO this reversion is a huge mistake.
Eldritch Blast and Hex revert to their 2014 versions.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha