So how would it work to try to cover an enemy’s mouth (so can’t yell or cast spell)?
Assuming you’d need to be grappling them, can you choose to cover their mouths as part of the initial grapple? Is that a free action? Or would you have to wait til your next tin to try it? Should there be a DC?
Assuming you’d need to be grappling them, can you choose to cover their mouths as part of the initial grapple?
Nope, grapple does what grapple says
Is that a free action?
There's no such thing as a "free action" in the 5/5.5 rules. There are things creatures can do that don't require an action, but that's not synonymous with "free action". The main reason is that "free action" would still be a type of action and thus would cause wrinkles with things that prohibit actions.
Or would you have to wait til your next tin to try it? Should there be a DC?
It's important keep in mind a grapple is not a bear-hug, it's literally just any kind of hold that limits the targets ability to move freely. It could be a wrist lock, grabbing their collar or scruff, or even hooking part of their armour or some kind of leg-lock. As such I wouldn't incorporate it into any of the base rules for grappling.
I would say at the least it requires the target be grappled, then some kind of check to restrain them with perhaps a penalty imposed if the PC wants to restrain _and_ gag
And while Dayvd is right that there is no Free Action in the Rules, Free actions are still a thing at many tables. It is anything that Does not consume your set action types. If i want to flip someone the Bird after i Mistystep away from them, that isn't any of the set actions, but it is something most DMs can say i can just do. They aren't unlimited obviously. Written rules and player table implementation are different enough to ask if you can.
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He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
So how would it work to try to cover an enemy’s mouth (so can’t yell or cast spell)?
Assuming you’d need to be grappling them, can you choose to cover their mouths as part of the initial grapple? Is that a free action? Or would you have to wait til your next tin to try it? Should there be a DC?
How do folks handle this? Thx!
I would handle this like i handle Called Shot, targeting isn't going that far, so Grappling reduce Speed to 0, but shutting mouth isn't part of the effect. Preventing spellcasting isn't easy to achieve, both by PC or Monsters/NPC.
Definitely makes sense that something extra would be needed to cover a mouth effectively, to prevent crying for help at least. Since most of your energy is in restraining them. Lots of good ideas. I like someone else getting to cover their mouth, as their own grapple attack of sorts, maybe at Advantage since they are already grappled. For the one doing the grappling, an extra check seems reasonable (higher DC), perhaps a second grapple attack?
The rules call it "grapple" but the consequences they describe are very much more accurately described as "having someone on a short leash".
The grappled character can: turn and face any direction, has both hamds free, can speak, cast spells, use their shield, attack with a two handed weapon, everything they can do normally.
A grappled character cant move and is dragged by the grappler. (Like a leash) The grappled charavter can attack the grappler as normal. If the grappled charavter attacks anyone else, the attack roll is at disadvantage. spell saves are not affected at all.
At which point, this is functionally not like anything anyone would picture if you said you "grapple" someone. Its much more like saying you put them on a short leash.
The reason being that monsters that grappled could often do a LOT of damage to a party. If grappled means you cant attack anything, then one attack completely takes out an entire character. So "grappled" got nerfed until its more like "leashed".
If you want to silence someone without killing them and not use magic, see level 14 rogue, or use poison. Poison will work for guards and stuff. But high cr monsters will shrug it off.
See the issue, it sounds great I stopped them from casting spells, swinging their sword or whatever, but its effectively upping a grapple to an incapacitate effect.
Now don't get me wrong I'd like grapple to do a bit more, like maybe it would require people to make a concentration test to cast a spell, or if mage slayer included it along with damage as something that would make people make a check. But fully shutting down spell casting would be pretty rough on casters once the DM starts using it on you.
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So how would it work to try to cover an enemy’s mouth (so can’t yell or cast spell)?
Assuming you’d need to be grappling them, can you choose to cover their mouths as part of the initial grapple? Is that a free action? Or would you have to wait til your next tin to try it? Should there be a DC?
How do folks handle this? Thx!
Nope, grapple does what grapple says
There's no such thing as a "free action" in the 5/5.5 rules. There are things creatures can do that don't require an action, but that's not synonymous with "free action". The main reason is that "free action" would still be a type of action and thus would cause wrinkles with things that prohibit actions.
It's important keep in mind a grapple is not a bear-hug, it's literally just any kind of hold that limits the targets ability to move freely. It could be a wrist lock, grabbing their collar or scruff, or even hooking part of their armour or some kind of leg-lock. As such I wouldn't incorporate it into any of the base rules for grappling.
I would say at the least it requires the target be grappled, then some kind of check to restrain them with perhaps a penalty imposed if the PC wants to restrain _and_ gag
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Ask your DM. They will be the determining factor.
And while Dayvd is right that there is no Free Action in the Rules, Free actions are still a thing at many tables. It is anything that Does not consume your set action types. If i want to flip someone the Bird after i Mistystep away from them, that isn't any of the set actions, but it is something most DMs can say i can just do. They aren't unlimited obviously.
Written rules and player table implementation are different enough to ask if you can.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
I would handle this like i handle Called Shot, targeting isn't going that far, so Grappling reduce Speed to 0, but shutting mouth isn't part of the effect. Preventing spellcasting isn't easy to achieve, both by PC or Monsters/NPC.
I'd say it's a 2-person job. The fighter/barbarian/monk grapples them, while someone else casts silence on the area.
Very helpful, thanks all.
Definitely makes sense that something extra would be needed to cover a mouth effectively, to prevent crying for help at least. Since most of your energy is in restraining them. Lots of good ideas. I like someone else getting to cover their mouth, as their own grapple attack of sorts, maybe at Advantage since they are already grappled. For the one doing the grappling, an extra check seems reasonable (higher DC), perhaps a second grapple attack?
The rules call it "grapple" but the consequences they describe are very much more accurately described as "having someone on a short leash".
The grappled character can: turn and face any direction, has both hamds free, can speak, cast spells, use their shield, attack with a two handed weapon, everything they can do normally.
A grappled character cant move and is dragged by the grappler. (Like a leash) The grappled charavter can attack the grappler as normal. If the grappled charavter attacks anyone else, the attack roll is at disadvantage. spell saves are not affected at all.
At which point, this is functionally not like anything anyone would picture if you said you "grapple" someone. Its much more like saying you put them on a short leash.
The reason being that monsters that grappled could often do a LOT of damage to a party. If grappled means you cant attack anything, then one attack completely takes out an entire character. So "grappled" got nerfed until its more like "leashed".
If you want to silence someone without killing them and not use magic, see level 14 rogue, or use poison. Poison will work for guards and stuff. But high cr monsters will shrug it off.
Why can't I grab their arms so they can't attack.
See the issue, it sounds great I stopped them from casting spells, swinging their sword or whatever, but its effectively upping a grapple to an incapacitate effect.
Now don't get me wrong I'd like grapple to do a bit more, like maybe it would require people to make a concentration test to cast a spell, or if mage slayer included it along with damage as something that would make people make a check. But fully shutting down spell casting would be pretty rough on casters once the DM starts using it on you.