Like if a way was found to completely annihilate prime, the elemental planes and I guess the feywild/shadowfell too. Would Sigil just go, 'well that'll be interesting' or would they try and stop it. The premise of a campaign setting I am doing slightly relies on Sigil trying to police a situation. But I'm not entirely sure if they actually would, if they are immune to cataclysmic events on that scale.
I'm not too sure if this was the best place to ask that either. So a suggestion for that would be appreciated too.
However, you are probably looking for something given the existing lore, what might be likely. Well, a few things complicate it.
There is no real central organization within Sigil, like say, within a nation or a massive city like Waterdeep. Sigil is composed of many competing factions that will never agree on anything. (To the point of if something was threatening to destroy Sigil itself and/or much of the multiverse, more than one faction would want to help it.) So some factions would certainly want to step in an help a situation like that, but too often they are distracted by internal politics to take much notice of the rest of the planes.
The closest thing to a central power of Sigil is the Lady of Pain. She is generally considered ultimately powerful within the city and has either no power or no interest outside of it. She has what I like to call "Story Level" power within Sigil. Whatever the story needs her to do, she can do. No stats, no rules. Just anything that fits what you need, she can do... within Sigil. Plus given her usual aloofness, unfortunately, she's not a likely source of resolution for that situation. However, if it really was a cosmological threat to Sigil's existence, then she would be moved to act. But it's a big question whether anything outside of Sigil could happen that would threaten it's existence. That really is up to you.
So, certain Factions might be motivated to try to police such a situation - but they would be acting on their own authority, and not necessary as "Sigil" - although, I suppose some might claim it, but really "Sigil" never acts as a unified force on anything. If destruction on the scale of eliminating entire planes is possible in your campaign, I could see having some apocalyptic visions of the Spire collapsing and Sigil plunging into an endless pit or something. Even if it isn't technically destroyed, falling into the Far Realm or even a bottomless void cut off from the rest of the multiverse could be possible. THAT would get the Lady of Pain motivated to do something, but very indirectly.
Bottom line - if your campaign idea relies on Sigil policing a situation like that, then definitely do that. If you want to fit with previous lore well, I'd suggest having it be less "Sigil" itself trying to police it as say the lawful 3 (Fraternity of Order, Harmonium, Mercykillers) seeing it as a threat to law and order of Sigil and try to put a stop to it. Others like the Sensates might want to prevent the destruction of so much potential sources of sensation and try to stop it (although might be split with some desiring to experience an event no one else has in all of the history of reality - even if it cuts off a vast amount of potential experience, that one incredible experience might be worth it). Transcendent Order could be moved to try to stop it even if they do not understand the extent of the threat or why they should help. The Fated and Believers of the Source might be motivated to stop it but also seeing it as a incredible opportunity to benefit themselves by reshaping things. So many individual Factions would want to try and prevent that collapse, and might have enough power to claim authority to be acting in the name of Sigil as a whole (and besides, the primes don't need to know all of that internal bickering back in Sigil, so why bother correcting them if they think these few represent the entire city?)
Behind it all, the Lady of Pain would be subtly and indirectly manipulating things - sometimes perhaps even making some things far worse - in order to lead others into preventing that catastrophe. Again, at "Story Level" power, she could be one of those figures where everything works out according to plan even if they plan wouldn't make sense before the fact unless you were near omniscient.
Hope that helps! Sounds like fun. I really enjoy big cosmos shaking (potential) cataclysms. Let us know how it goes!
Unfortunately it isn’t entirely up to me as this is a shared campaign setting with 2 other GMs (who will be playing in this). We are all following 5E canon on a lot of things, but I’m a bit of a novice with all that which is why I’m here.
In the other campaigns we have found the remnants of a civilisation that were messing with elemental power sources. We managed to screw one up and cause an elemental incursion. We also found where another city once was that is now a sheered off plateau. This empire was subverted and eventually taken over by the Yuan Ti and managed to destroy itself.
Soooo, I ran with the idea that the destruction was (probably) caused by tunneling into the elemental planes and there was some sort of overload. In the case of the plateau city they hit the negative plane and basically caused an effect like an 8 km sphere of annihilation. Bye bye city. What I wanted to do was an area where this event happened in a way that was more, unusual. Rather than total annihilation the negative energy spiralled through all the inner planes and the ‘explosion’ created a region that merges parts of the elemental planes, the feywild and shadowfell with a rift into the void at the heart of it all.
Whatever the big picture metaphysical ‘laws’ behind everything are they are kind of secondary. The main thing is that there’s this weird messed up region where everything has mixed in ways not/rarely seen anywhere else. But it’s a lot easier to work out where to go with it all if the big picture stuff is figured out. I have a few ideas about all that but I don’t know how they mesh with canon, I’m certainly open to better suggestions, if you have them.
I wanted a faction who are basically void jinn who, along with their quasi elemental and genasi minions are trying to widen the rift. Not too sure if they seek the total annihilation of everything, or just reducing it all down to ‘soup’. Potentially they could be serving things from the Far Realm who want this convenient doorway made bigger.
How motivated the Lady is I guess depends on how big a threat they are. Maybe it just isn’t possible to destroy the planes the way the void jinn are trying to. Though if the Far Realm are involved she would probably want to stamp on that. This is also potentially a contained pocket realm, like Ravenloft, (for reasons) and therefore not evidently so much of a threat, making her involvement less likely.
Obviously massive off the scale destruction might be bad news for Sigil. (Especially if the Far Realm wants in). But like you say Sigil is complex and somewhat detached. This region is a little like the zone in the STALKER PC game and the 'busybody' factions you mentioned could work a little like ‘Duty’. They arent ‘the law’, but act like they are. Taking that further you could have neutral entrepreneurs from Sigil here to harvest strange & unique materials and flora/fauna and others with nefarious objectives. Your suggestions for how different factions would react present a lot of potential for a whole range of motivations for coming here.
The yuan ti element gives another spin to this. Their gods want destruction and they got that. So potentially they are dormant and sated. There is speculation the Yuan Ti gods might be a front for Far Realm entities. One of their gods, Dendar, is the god of nightmares, which potentially meshes. Dendar has some sort of influence here and there are definitely remnants of the yuan ti in the region. If Dendar is actually something Far Realm then he will have some sort of agenda. (Perhaps to awaken and become Merrshaulk/Sseth again). If this is a pocket realm he might be the one making it that way or this might actually be a prison keeping him contained.
Which opens up the next can of worms, the gods. If the prime is destroyed that means no worshippers. Not sure exactly how it works but wouldn't the outer planes start to fade with no ‘belief’ giving them shape? (Even the real nasty and chaotic gods want worshippers) If that’s the case the gods, all of them, want this stopped, assuming they are aware of it. (I guess some of the more evil gods might be happy to make things worse of course.)
The Lady keeps the powers out of Sigil for good reasons and some of those reasons might apply here. She can probably keep the gods out but possibly not their agents. (Perhaps she is the jailer for whatever power lurks here, whether it's Dendar or something from the Far Realm.) But as you say she doesn't go beyond Sigil so it probably wouldn't make sense to involve her in that way. Directly anyway.
Perhaps the gods are the ones making this a pocket realm to contain Dendar/Far Realm/the rift/all of the above. Maybe it’s just one god, who actually has reason to be here as it’s the original god the yuan ti gods subverted. (I really like this one as it gives me a reason to have a city full of non evil undead (mostly non evil anyway). They are a remnant of this empire before the yuan ti took over and fervently worship this god. Perhaps it's their belief that's causing the pocket realm, or they are half of a yin/yang equation and part of the solution to closing the rift is for them to 'let go'...)
So yeh sorry kind of unloaded a bit there. But you gave a detailed reply so I figured you were up for some brainstorming. So, any thoughts?
Like if a way was found to completely annihilate prime, the elemental planes and I guess the feywild/shadowfell too. Would Sigil just go, 'well that'll be interesting' or would they try and stop it. The premise of a campaign setting I am doing slightly relies on Sigil trying to police a situation. But I'm not entirely sure if they actually would, if they are immune to cataclysmic events on that scale.
I'm not too sure if this was the best place to ask that either. So a suggestion for that would be appreciated too.
Well, the real answer is "It's up to you." :)
However, you are probably looking for something given the existing lore, what might be likely. Well, a few things complicate it.
There is no real central organization within Sigil, like say, within a nation or a massive city like Waterdeep. Sigil is composed of many competing factions that will never agree on anything. (To the point of if something was threatening to destroy Sigil itself and/or much of the multiverse, more than one faction would want to help it.) So some factions would certainly want to step in an help a situation like that, but too often they are distracted by internal politics to take much notice of the rest of the planes.
The closest thing to a central power of Sigil is the Lady of Pain. She is generally considered ultimately powerful within the city and has either no power or no interest outside of it. She has what I like to call "Story Level" power within Sigil. Whatever the story needs her to do, she can do. No stats, no rules. Just anything that fits what you need, she can do... within Sigil. Plus given her usual aloofness, unfortunately, she's not a likely source of resolution for that situation. However, if it really was a cosmological threat to Sigil's existence, then she would be moved to act. But it's a big question whether anything outside of Sigil could happen that would threaten it's existence. That really is up to you.
So, certain Factions might be motivated to try to police such a situation - but they would be acting on their own authority, and not necessary as "Sigil" - although, I suppose some might claim it, but really "Sigil" never acts as a unified force on anything. If destruction on the scale of eliminating entire planes is possible in your campaign, I could see having some apocalyptic visions of the Spire collapsing and Sigil plunging into an endless pit or something. Even if it isn't technically destroyed, falling into the Far Realm or even a bottomless void cut off from the rest of the multiverse could be possible. THAT would get the Lady of Pain motivated to do something, but very indirectly.
Bottom line - if your campaign idea relies on Sigil policing a situation like that, then definitely do that. If you want to fit with previous lore well, I'd suggest having it be less "Sigil" itself trying to police it as say the lawful 3 (Fraternity of Order, Harmonium, Mercykillers) seeing it as a threat to law and order of Sigil and try to put a stop to it. Others like the Sensates might want to prevent the destruction of so much potential sources of sensation and try to stop it (although might be split with some desiring to experience an event no one else has in all of the history of reality - even if it cuts off a vast amount of potential experience, that one incredible experience might be worth it). Transcendent Order could be moved to try to stop it even if they do not understand the extent of the threat or why they should help. The Fated and Believers of the Source might be motivated to stop it but also seeing it as a incredible opportunity to benefit themselves by reshaping things. So many individual Factions would want to try and prevent that collapse, and might have enough power to claim authority to be acting in the name of Sigil as a whole (and besides, the primes don't need to know all of that internal bickering back in Sigil, so why bother correcting them if they think these few represent the entire city?)
Behind it all, the Lady of Pain would be subtly and indirectly manipulating things - sometimes perhaps even making some things far worse - in order to lead others into preventing that catastrophe. Again, at "Story Level" power, she could be one of those figures where everything works out according to plan even if they plan wouldn't make sense before the fact unless you were near omniscient.
Hope that helps! Sounds like fun. I really enjoy big cosmos shaking (potential) cataclysms. Let us know how it goes!
Thanks for the reply KenMarable.
Unfortunately it isn’t entirely up to me as this is a shared campaign setting with 2 other GMs (who will be playing in this). We are all following 5E canon on a lot of things, but I’m a bit of a novice with all that which is why I’m here.
In the other campaigns we have found the remnants of a civilisation that were messing with elemental power sources. We managed to screw one up and cause an elemental incursion. We also found where another city once was that is now a sheered off plateau. This empire was subverted and eventually taken over by the Yuan Ti and managed to destroy itself.
Soooo, I ran with the idea that the destruction was (probably) caused by tunneling into the elemental planes and there was some sort of overload. In the case of the plateau city they hit the negative plane and basically caused an effect like an 8 km sphere of annihilation. Bye bye city. What I wanted to do was an area where this event happened in a way that was more, unusual. Rather than total annihilation the negative energy spiralled through all the inner planes and the ‘explosion’ created a region that merges parts of the elemental planes, the feywild and shadowfell with a rift into the void at the heart of it all.
Whatever the big picture metaphysical ‘laws’ behind everything are they are kind of secondary. The main thing is that there’s this weird messed up region where everything has mixed in ways not/rarely seen anywhere else. But it’s a lot easier to work out where to go with it all if the big picture stuff is figured out. I have a few ideas about all that but I don’t know how they mesh with canon, I’m certainly open to better suggestions, if you have them.
I wanted a faction who are basically void jinn who, along with their quasi elemental and genasi minions are trying to widen the rift. Not too sure if they seek the total annihilation of everything, or just reducing it all down to ‘soup’. Potentially they could be serving things from the Far Realm who want this convenient doorway made bigger.
How motivated the Lady is I guess depends on how big a threat they are. Maybe it just isn’t possible to destroy the planes the way the void jinn are trying to. Though if the Far Realm are involved she would probably want to stamp on that. This is also potentially a contained pocket realm, like Ravenloft, (for reasons) and therefore not evidently so much of a threat, making her involvement less likely.
Obviously massive off the scale destruction might be bad news for Sigil. (Especially if the Far Realm wants in). But like you say Sigil is complex and somewhat detached. This region is a little like the zone in the STALKER PC game and the 'busybody' factions you mentioned could work a little like ‘Duty’. They arent ‘the law’, but act like they are. Taking that further you could have neutral entrepreneurs from Sigil here to harvest strange & unique materials and flora/fauna and others with nefarious objectives. Your suggestions for how different factions would react present a lot of potential for a whole range of motivations for coming here.
The yuan ti element gives another spin to this. Their gods want destruction and they got that. So potentially they are dormant and sated. There is speculation the Yuan Ti gods might be a front for Far Realm entities. One of their gods, Dendar, is the god of nightmares, which potentially meshes. Dendar has some sort of influence here and there are definitely remnants of the yuan ti in the region. If Dendar is actually something Far Realm then he will have some sort of agenda. (Perhaps to awaken and become Merrshaulk/Sseth again). If this is a pocket realm he might be the one making it that way or this might actually be a prison keeping him contained.
Which opens up the next can of worms, the gods. If the prime is destroyed that means no worshippers. Not sure exactly how it works but wouldn't the outer planes start to fade with no ‘belief’ giving them shape? (Even the real nasty and chaotic gods want worshippers) If that’s the case the gods, all of them, want this stopped, assuming they are aware of it. (I guess some of the more evil gods might be happy to make things worse of course.)
The Lady keeps the powers out of Sigil for good reasons and some of those reasons might apply here. She can probably keep the gods out but possibly not their agents. (Perhaps she is the jailer for whatever power lurks here, whether it's Dendar or something from the Far Realm.) But as you say she doesn't go beyond Sigil so it probably wouldn't make sense to involve her in that way. Directly anyway.
Perhaps the gods are the ones making this a pocket realm to contain Dendar/Far Realm/the rift/all of the above. Maybe it’s just one god, who actually has reason to be here as it’s the original god the yuan ti gods subverted. (I really like this one as it gives me a reason to have a city full of non evil undead (mostly non evil anyway). They are a remnant of this empire before the yuan ti took over and fervently worship this god. Perhaps it's their belief that's causing the pocket realm, or they are half of a yin/yang equation and part of the solution to closing the rift is for them to 'let go'...)
So yeh sorry kind of unloaded a bit there. But you gave a detailed reply so I figured you were up for some brainstorming. So, any thoughts?