Don't know if this is a cop out, but "Both and Neither" I hybridize them and take what parts i like from each.
I am honestly fine with 5.14 and 5.24, but think the system works best when combining them. Flaws and Bonds from 5.14 and the Class Progression of 5.24, while then letting backgrounds for both being allowed. Some of the eldritch invocations that didn't make 5.24 are just too good to leave on the table so they get brought forward.
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He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
Don't know if this is a cop out, but "Both and Neither" I hybridize them and take what parts i like from each.
I am honestly fine with 5.14 and 5.24, but think the system works best when combining them. Flaws and Bonds from 5.14 and the Class Progression of 5.24, while then letting backgrounds for both being allowed. Some of the eldritch invocations that didn't make 5.24 are just too good to leave on the table so they get brought forward.
Somewhat building on this I would say I like the "crunchy" bits of 2024 more while I much preferred the fluff and additional lore the 2014 core books contained.
Don't know if this is a cop out, but "Both and Neither" I hybridize them and take what parts i like from each.
I am honestly fine with 5.14 and 5.24, but think the system works best when combining them. Flaws and Bonds from 5.14 and the Class Progression of 5.24, while then letting backgrounds for both being allowed. Some of the eldritch invocations that didn't make 5.24 are just too good to leave on the table so they get brought forward.
I am in of the same mind. Generally OVERALL I prefer 5.14, BUT 5.24 does have a few changes that I really like and make sense to me. Even a few that are near identical to some Homebrew I have used in my own games over the years
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"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
In terms of core rules for gameplay, I like some of the stuff from 2024, but I hate a lot of the changes it makes to how individual class features function, so I'm just sticking with 2014 overall rather than mix and matching.
It seems like it's still the same game to me. There were some class updates and I like that, but it doesn't seem really different. Kind of like a MMO that launches a big patch with class revisions -- same game but updated.
A lot of the changes made in 2024 (like potions as a bonus action) were stuff I was using as house rules anyway so I’m liking those changes a lot. However as others have said there’s also a few things (like the sorcerer Twin Spell metamagic not actually twinning anything anymore) I didn’t like so those I’m bringing the 2014 versions forward. On the whole though I like the new versions a lot and the two new campaigns I’ve recently started running are using those rules whilst the ongoing one is still on 2014 until we finish
I hate 5.5e with a passion. Druids got ruined through wildshape, especially moon, evoker wizards got severely nerfed by changing what level sculpt spells is given at, tempest cleric is just gone, most spells are worse, martials barely got any better, and the fact that all subclasses are gained at level three just doesn't make sense for some of them. Like, I get how some classes are kinda in training before they specialize, but cleric, sorcerer, and warlock literally get all their features because of their domain/magical effect/pact. I also am not a fan of the changes to how backgrounds apply ASIs now, because it reinforces stereotypes like the soldier fighter or the bookworm mage. They should have stuck with the custom ASIs from races in Tasha's, and the lore just not being available at all in the phb and mm really sucks. I get that it's supposed to be setting-agnostic, but a few examples of what creatures do in different worlds could really help aspiring dms come up with ideas. At least put that kind of stuff in the dmg! Forcing us to homebrew our own changes to the humanoid profession statblocks also sucks. Not a lot of people have the time for that level of customization, and that should be the job of the designers.
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Pokemon Master, Hero of Hyrule, Jedi Knight, Minecrafter, Celestial Being Beyond Comprehension, Bounty Hunter, Salmon Runner, Nailmaster, Yarn Yoshi Enjoyer, Animal Lover, Math Rock Roller, Nerd King in all Aspects.
(And, of course, Dragon Tamer. It is in the name, after all)
5e pre-2019. After that it’s been like a giant DLC with patch after patch. And like all other editions and games, what’s useful will be adjusted to fit the former 5e rules till we get something better than what we’ve got.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
*big sigh* problems I have with 2024, is it took an already hard to come by lethal situations you don’t chaotic stupid yourself into to begin with and made them even less lethal.
exhaustion got changed around so much that it’s not even a threat factor anymore.
The bonus action of potions, again, basically allows every class to “second wind” every round of combat, provided they have enough potions. It also basically gives every character the level 3 rogue thief ability of “fast hands”.
never been a fan of house rules that essentially nerf entire subclasses or classes abilities. 2024 did that itself.
that all aside there’s some good things to 2024.
but overall, just… I’d rather, imo, they just gone on to a 6e instead of doing the 2024 “5.5”.
especially since so many modules are completely out of balance with all the new classes and changes and spells and etc since the initial creation of the modules.
I would say that the 2014 rules are by far my favorite, being the ones I grew up playing, however, there are some things that could be changed that are easily resolved in homebrew. I dislike the fact that the 2024 Bard is so very powerful :(
It's... mixed? Most stuff isn't all that different, but where something got changed... sometimes I like the change, sometimes I dislike the change, sometimes they replaced one thing I disliked with a different thing I dislike. My current game is on 2014 rules because we couldn't be bothered to switch, but I'm pulling in things from 2024 if I like them.
Some things were improved and certain rulings made more clear. Spells, for the most part, were improved (some were not and a few were nerfed). And some new stuff, like Bastions, I think were really good. I also like the more customisation we get and some feats that got improved. The DMG includes more things helpful to newer DMs even with advice on dealing with players wanting to use real world physics to 'game the game' for auto-win buttons.
However, there's also some rules that became sillier or more confusing, I dislike the changes to subclasses moving them all to 3rd level, and I utterly despise the ability score choices in character creation being restricted by the background. I dislike all the lore and fluff being so scaled down or just omitted. I abhor the retcons to established lore (looking at you, tieflings) and needless changes to monster identities.
It's a verymixed bag.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I dislike the fact that the 2024 Bard is so very powerful :(
I'm still of the opinion that 2024 bards are net nerf when all is said and done.
Song of Rest was considerable healing. That's a clear loss.
Jack of all Trades used to apply to any ability check. Now it only applies to skill proficiencies. That's a clear loss.
Bardic Inspiration used to apply to any ability check, attack roll, or saving throw. Now it only applies to failed rolls, which means things like adding to initiative can no longer be done. Now the initiative bonus is restricted to dance bards. Having a longer time period to use Bardic Inspiration doesn't grant more uses or make it a bigger bonus. Only triggering on a failure means a person doesn't use it on a roll that was going to succeed anyway but still doesn't guarantee success. Being better in some ways isn't enough to be an improvement over the loss of use on initiative.
Magical Secrets provides a smaller pool of spell choices by limited the classes from which to select, and bards learn higher level spells at a slower rate. They can learn more non-bard spells over time but know less spells in total. I find knowing more high level spells is the better option. Losing spell lists from which to select isn't a big deal because there are many good spells on the cleric, druid, and wizard list but the slower access to higher level spells is still a drawback at higher levels.
There's also the loss of weapon proficiencies, but I think the cantrip improves is a gain there.
When I see someone post about bard being powerful that's not my experience. Mine was recently eaten by sharks. I find they're useful but not powerful. We don't really see that power until they've accumulated some high level wizard spells in the 4th tier of play, maybe later 3rd tier. That tells me the issue is with the wizard spells and not the bards, and I think those players are misplacing the root cause.
Wizards, OTOH, have more spells prepared at those high levels, still use ritual adept to leverage spells prepared further, have more spells slots through arcane recovery, have spell mastery in the same tier where magical secrets gives wish when wizards already have wish, and wizard subclasses enhance spellcasting in ways bard subclasses do not. Plus wizards can swap out the spells they have for downtime. It's obviously better to be a wizard than a bard trying to be a wizard so magical secrets is overrated.
Is there a PDF somewhere with the cut Lore of 2024, which was present in 2014?
Not legally. That won't happen until 6e comes out and they've abandoned 5e, in my opinion. It's possible they'll reverse course and do that, but more likely they'll drip it back in via setting books to some degree.
Do we know when all the Extra Books with Classes, Subclasses and other Character parts from 2014 will (if ever) release for the 2024 Rules?
Nope. They'll drip through as more content is released (I think an updated Necromancer might be coming out to with the FR books, I seem to remember it being said, for example). So there'll be no real forewarning to speak of - they'll just be included as appropriate in the various releases.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Is there a PDF somewhere with the cut Lore of 2024, which was present in 2014?
Not legally. That won't happen until 6e comes out and they've abandoned 5e, in my opinion. It's possible they'll reverse course and do that, but more likely they'll drip it back in via setting books to some degree.
Do we know when all the Extra Books with Classes, Subclasses and other Character parts from 2014 will (if ever) release for the 2024 Rules?
Nope. They'll drip through as more content is released (I think an updated Necromancer might be coming out to with the FR books, I seem to remember it being said, for example). So there'll be no real forewarning to speak of - they'll just be included as appropriate in the various releases.
Ok Thanks. The Lore was cut in all 3 Books or just in the Players Handbook?
The other books from 5e are backwards compatabile anywas as far as I remember. You cant do anything wrong there I assume :)
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I just wondered if you guys think the 2014 or 2024 version is better and why?
Don't know if this is a cop out, but "Both and Neither"
I hybridize them and take what parts i like from each.
I am honestly fine with 5.14 and 5.24, but think the system works best when combining them. Flaws and Bonds from 5.14 and the Class Progression of 5.24, while then letting backgrounds for both being allowed.
Some of the eldritch invocations that didn't make 5.24 are just too good to leave on the table so they get brought forward.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
Somewhat building on this I would say I like the "crunchy" bits of 2024 more while I much preferred the fluff and additional lore the 2014 core books contained.
I am in of the same mind. Generally OVERALL I prefer 5.14, BUT 5.24 does have a few changes that I really like and make sense to me. Even a few that are near identical to some Homebrew I have used in my own games over the years
"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
In terms of core rules for gameplay, I like some of the stuff from 2024, but I hate a lot of the changes it makes to how individual class features function, so I'm just sticking with 2014 overall rather than mix and matching.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
It seems like it's still the same game to me. There were some class updates and I like that, but it doesn't seem really different. Kind of like a MMO that launches a big patch with class revisions -- same game but updated.
If I had to pick I'd go with 2024
2024 all the way be and my whole group i run for have been loving it
A lot of the changes made in 2024 (like potions as a bonus action) were stuff I was using as house rules anyway so I’m liking those changes a lot. However as others have said there’s also a few things (like the sorcerer Twin Spell metamagic not actually twinning anything anymore) I didn’t like so those I’m bringing the 2014 versions forward. On the whole though I like the new versions a lot and the two new campaigns I’ve recently started running are using those rules whilst the ongoing one is still on 2014 until we finish
I hate 5.5e with a passion. Druids got ruined through wildshape, especially moon, evoker wizards got severely nerfed by changing what level sculpt spells is given at, tempest cleric is just gone, most spells are worse, martials barely got any better, and the fact that all subclasses are gained at level three just doesn't make sense for some of them. Like, I get how some classes are kinda in training before they specialize, but cleric, sorcerer, and warlock literally get all their features because of their domain/magical effect/pact. I also am not a fan of the changes to how backgrounds apply ASIs now, because it reinforces stereotypes like the soldier fighter or the bookworm mage. They should have stuck with the custom ASIs from races in Tasha's, and the lore just not being available at all in the phb and mm really sucks. I get that it's supposed to be setting-agnostic, but a few examples of what creatures do in different worlds could really help aspiring dms come up with ideas. At least put that kind of stuff in the dmg! Forcing us to homebrew our own changes to the humanoid profession statblocks also sucks. Not a lot of people have the time for that level of customization, and that should be the job of the designers.
Pokemon Master, Hero of Hyrule, Jedi Knight, Minecrafter, Celestial Being Beyond Comprehension, Bounty Hunter, Salmon Runner, Nailmaster, Yarn Yoshi Enjoyer, Animal Lover, Math Rock Roller, Nerd King in all Aspects.
(And, of course, Dragon Tamer. It is in the name, after all)
HE'S BACK... AND WEIRDER THAN EVER!
5e pre-2019. After that it’s been like a giant DLC with patch after patch. And like all other editions and games, what’s useful will be adjusted to fit the former 5e rules till we get something better than what we’ve got.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
*big sigh*
problems I have with 2024, is it took an already hard to come by lethal situations you don’t chaotic stupid yourself into to begin with and made them even less lethal.
exhaustion got changed around so much that it’s not even a threat factor anymore.
The bonus action of potions, again, basically allows every class to “second wind” every round of combat, provided they have enough potions. It also basically gives every character the level 3 rogue thief ability of “fast hands”.
never been a fan of house rules that essentially nerf entire subclasses or classes abilities. 2024 did that itself.
that all aside there’s some good things to 2024.
but overall, just… I’d rather, imo, they just gone on to a 6e instead of doing the 2024 “5.5”.
especially since so many modules are completely out of balance with all the new classes and changes and spells and etc since the initial creation of the modules.
thats my $0.02.
Blank
I would say that the 2014 rules are by far my favorite, being the ones I grew up playing, however, there are some things that could be changed that are easily resolved in homebrew. I dislike the fact that the 2024 Bard is so very powerful :(
It's... mixed? Most stuff isn't all that different, but where something got changed... sometimes I like the change, sometimes I dislike the change, sometimes they replaced one thing I disliked with a different thing I dislike. My current game is on 2014 rules because we couldn't be bothered to switch, but I'm pulling in things from 2024 if I like them.
I'm mixed (like a lot of people, it seems).
Some things were improved and certain rulings made more clear. Spells, for the most part, were improved (some were not and a few were nerfed). And some new stuff, like Bastions, I think were really good. I also like the more customisation we get and some feats that got improved. The DMG includes more things helpful to newer DMs even with advice on dealing with players wanting to use real world physics to 'game the game' for auto-win buttons.
However, there's also some rules that became sillier or more confusing, I dislike the changes to subclasses moving them all to 3rd level, and I utterly despise the ability score choices in character creation being restricted by the background. I dislike all the lore and fluff being so scaled down or just omitted. I abhor the retcons to established lore (looking at you, tieflings) and needless changes to monster identities.
It's a very mixed bag.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I'm still of the opinion that 2024 bards are net nerf when all is said and done.
Song of Rest was considerable healing. That's a clear loss.
Jack of all Trades used to apply to any ability check. Now it only applies to skill proficiencies. That's a clear loss.
Bardic Inspiration used to apply to any ability check, attack roll, or saving throw. Now it only applies to failed rolls, which means things like adding to initiative can no longer be done. Now the initiative bonus is restricted to dance bards. Having a longer time period to use Bardic Inspiration doesn't grant more uses or make it a bigger bonus. Only triggering on a failure means a person doesn't use it on a roll that was going to succeed anyway but still doesn't guarantee success. Being better in some ways isn't enough to be an improvement over the loss of use on initiative.
Magical Secrets provides a smaller pool of spell choices by limited the classes from which to select, and bards learn higher level spells at a slower rate. They can learn more non-bard spells over time but know less spells in total. I find knowing more high level spells is the better option. Losing spell lists from which to select isn't a big deal because there are many good spells on the cleric, druid, and wizard list but the slower access to higher level spells is still a drawback at higher levels.
There's also the loss of weapon proficiencies, but I think the cantrip improves is a gain there.
When I see someone post about bard being powerful that's not my experience. Mine was recently eaten by sharks. I find they're useful but not powerful. We don't really see that power until they've accumulated some high level wizard spells in the 4th tier of play, maybe later 3rd tier. That tells me the issue is with the wizard spells and not the bards, and I think those players are misplacing the root cause.
Wizards, OTOH, have more spells prepared at those high levels, still use ritual adept to leverage spells prepared further, have more spells slots through arcane recovery, have spell mastery in the same tier where magical secrets gives wish when wizards already have wish, and wizard subclasses enhance spellcasting in ways bard subclasses do not. Plus wizards can swap out the spells they have for downtime. It's obviously better to be a wizard than a bard trying to be a wizard so magical secrets is overrated.
Just sayin'. I'm making a rogue next.
Seeing as how Hasbro doesn't have control of my games, I take what I need from each half.
AL rules games are the only ones that require hard locks on rulesets.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Is there a PDF somewhere with the cut Lore of 2024, which was present in 2014?
Do we know when all the Extra Books with Classes, Subclasses and other Character parts from 2014 will (if ever) release for the 2024 Rules?
Pen and Paper Addict
Not legally. That won't happen until 6e comes out and they've abandoned 5e, in my opinion. It's possible they'll reverse course and do that, but more likely they'll drip it back in via setting books to some degree.
Nope. They'll drip through as more content is released (I think an updated Necromancer might be coming out to with the FR books, I seem to remember it being said, for example). So there'll be no real forewarning to speak of - they'll just be included as appropriate in the various releases.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Ok Thanks. The Lore was cut in all 3 Books or just in the Players Handbook?
The other books from 5e are backwards compatabile anywas as far as I remember. You cant do anything wrong there I assume :)
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