The other day, I had a thought "how many spells are martial-like abilities?" Guess how much I found? 15? 20? 25? Nope. From between the PHB, TCoE and XGtE, I found about 38 spells that are martial-like abilities (see lists below).
Players Handbook (26 spells)
Aid – It’s the basic warrior’s rallying cry
Blade Ward (sort of) – Armors are resistant to certain types of damage. For example, plate armor was most resistant against slashing damage whereas padded was most resistant against bludgeoning damage.
Command – It’s verbal assertion which strong and scary non-magic users can do.
Conjure Barrage / Conjure Volley – It’s just an archer making a barrage / volley of ranged attacks.
Cure Wounds (sort of) – Basic combat medical aid was able to patch wounded warriors into a fighting condition, before requiring advanced medical care.
Destructive Wave (minus the divine energy and radiant damage) – This is what Barbarians should be doing because of their high Strength.
Dominate Monster / Dominate Person (sort of) – The concept of these spells makes for a good, roleplay, reward for renown adventurers.
Earthquake – See Destructive Wave but apply to +15th-level Barbarians
Enhance Abilities – The Bear, Bull and Cat options are martial-like features. However, I can see magic enhancing martials like steroids thus incentivizing teamwork – which is awesome.
Expeditious Retreat – Monks can do this, why not others under certain circumstances?
Fear – Should be a consequence of critically failing a save against intimidation checks.
Gust of Wind – This should an epic boon for martial classes.
Haste – See Expeditious Retreat
Heroism – This is the classic knight and paladin stuff when giving an epic speech or, the beloved, last stand.
Knock – If martials need to succeed on a Str or Dex check to unlock, unstuck or unbar a lock, manacle or barred door, why do casters get the equivalent of the “GET OUT OF JAIL, FREE” card?!?!?
Longstrider - See Expeditious Retreat
Misty Step – This is the side-stepping mechanic in any action-combat video game.
Slow – A well-placed weapon attack can cripple a creature, slowing its speed and negatively effecting its ability to dodge.
Spar the Dying – CPR can perform a similar effect before casualties need basic or advance medical aid.
Swift Quiver – Clearly catered towards ranged martials. So why is the 2nd part of this spell a part of the spell?
Thunderous Smite – The 2nd part of the spell is the nature of bludgeoning weapons
True Strike – It’s a focused attack which martials should do at a cost.
Vicious Mockery – See Fear but apply to saves made against being belittled. Plus, it only requires a verbal component so it’s exactly verbal mockery. Therefore, anyone should be able to do this.
Jump (especially 2024 version) – It’s a better version of the jumping rules as it calculates distance in 5-feet increments.
Tasha's Cauldron of Everything (4 spells)
Blade of Disaster – Should be an artifact, or eldritch knight or paladin feature. If we use this logic, Shadow Blade, Holy Weapon and Ice Knives (from XGtE) should be included to the list.
Booming Blade – Should be an eldritch knight feature.
Green-Flame Blade – See Booming Blade.
Sword Burst – A simple spinning, whirlwind, attack.
Xanathar’s Guide to Everything (7 spells)
Catapult – All strong men can throw objects far. In fantasy, why not let martials yet people for utility?
Cause Fear – See Command and Fear.
Earth Tremor – See Destructive Wave
Flame Arrows – See Booming Blade but for ranged attacks
Steel Wind Strike – Requires a melee weapon, plus it feels like a +15th-level Fighter or Kensei Monk feature.
Zephyr Strike – It a simple martial manoeuvre.
Snare – It is the iconic rope trap which any skilled person can do.
Considering that base D&D is in a high-fantasy setting, martials should be capable of the feats of extraordinary features. So, is it contradictory that martial warriors can exist and thrive in a world full of wizards, dragons and all sorts of eldritch abominations?
As you can tell, I am a bit annoyed that WOTC decide to bar cool features from martials despite them being perfectly designed them. If I was to create a "band-aid fix", I would create a feat where martial classes can choose and use one of these spells without casting them. Depending of the level of the chosen spell, you will need to have a certain combined level between your martial classes.
Feel free to express your annoyance for certain spells and how would you resolve their problems.
I’m not sure I understand what it is you’re complaining about. You give a long list of spells you say duplicate martial features (which I think is a bit reductive personally but we’ll go with it) and then complain that martials are barred from doing them. So which is it? Either these are just martial features with a different name, in which case they can already do them, or martial can’t do them in which case what was the point of the long list?
OP, it feels more like you are trying to argue "Martial classes need more cool things" but are phrasing it as if you are incensed that mages can do supernatural things. you would get more agreement from people if you said " Martials should get spell like abilities from their physical prowess."
Your problem doesn't seem to be with the spells, your problem seems to be that martials can't replicate them, But also they can, and I can't tell if you are annoyed that they can or they can't.
A Heavy Crossbow doesn't make Fire bolt or Eldritch Blast redundant. You can argue for martial classes to get better without putting down casters and their abilities.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
The other day, I had a thought "how many spells are martial-like abilities?" Guess how much I found? 15? 20? 25? Nope. From between the PHB, TCoE and XGtE, I found about 38 spells that are martial-like abilities (see lists below).
---list of spellls---
Considering that base D&D is in a high-fantasy setting, martials should be capable of the feats of extraordinary features. So, is it contradictory that martial warriors can exist and thrive in a world full of wizards, dragons and all sorts of eldritch abominations?
As you can tell, I am a bit annoyed that WOTC decide to bar cool features from martials despite them being perfectly designed them. If I was to create a "band-aid fix", I would create a feat where martial classes can choose and use one of these spells without casting them. Depending of the level of the chosen spell, you will need to have a certain combined level between your martial classes.
Feel free to express your annoyance for certain spells and how would you resolve their problems.
Dungeons and Dragons is a high fantasy adventure game that very quickly (around level 5-6) turns into a superhero power fantasy. That, in a word, is the game as these early levels are usually quite short in terms of a typical campaign. The majority of any D&D campaign is going to be between 5th and 12th level, and we already know that something like 98% of all D&D games played never go into higher levels than that anyway.
I do agree and find it odd, however, that the "superpowers", which typically come in the form of spells and spell-like class abilities, are denied to some very specific classes and sub-classes. In some cases, rendering them clearly "not super heroes", for example, the Fighter-Champions at any level.
I think, this is a kind of throwback to the idea where WOTC tries to suggest that "hey we are fantasy game, not a superheroes game", but given the design of the system, the sorts of powers most of the classess and sub-classes get, especially as they progress beyond level 5-6 this doesn't really hold up. It very much is a game of superheroes; we don't have the spandex pants and superhero names, but we certainly have all the superhero powers.
Strictly speaking, it's not possible to run 5e as a down-to-earth game about a medieval world, as was the case at lower levels in earlier editions (Pre 4th) without heavy editing to the system itself (ala Shadowdark for example). Still, some of that "low power" design and thinking is a sort of hangover from those early versions of the game. Its kind of like D&D 5e isn't 100% fully committing to the genre it very clearly is in just yet.
I do think after games like Draw Steel for example that show what "fully committing" to a power fantasy looks like, the next edition of the game will probably commit fully to the genre and its conversion from a Dungeon Delving Survival Game to a High Adventure Power Fantasy will be complete.
It's pretty close already, though, barring a couple of sub-classes, its kind of a done deal and since the vast majority of players that know 5e D&D don't pick those sub-classes anyway, it generally only matters in an analysis done on paper like the one you're doing.
I mean.. yes you're right, but no, it doesn't matter because no one picks those martial sub-classes when they play D&D anyway, and IF they do, they are very intentionally creating a "non-super hero" character in a super hero game, which again, is also not weird. I mean, even the Marvel Universe has its "regular dude" heroes like Hawkeye and Black Widow. In a way, there is room for such classes in D&D even as a superhero game and it still makes sense. It's not "balanced" per say, but neither is Captain Marvel vs. Iron Man. That doesn't mean they can't exist in the same story.
In a word, I don't think there is anything to fix. It's more like it just requires understanding the how and why of it.
A lot of these spells are actually on martial (Ranger and paladin) spell lists. It’s martials who cast them. Then throw in eldritch knights, and arcane tricksters and that’s practically the whole list. So, I don’t understand the complaint. You want a martial who casts some spells, just play one. Problem solved.
Pounding the ground doesn't equal Thunder or Force Damage.
Also, OPs argument relies heavily on the "OtherStuffExists" fallacy.
Furthermore...at this point, if the argument is for "things can be flavored to be done by X Martial", OP...are you aware of Runesmith's College of Stolen Valor Bard? Because it's pretty much the converse to what you're proposing here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Considering that base D&D is in a high-fantasy setting, martials should be capable of the feats of extraordinary features. So, is it contradictory that martial warriors can exist and thrive in a world full of wizards, dragons and all sorts of eldritch abominations?
As you can tell, I am a bit annoyed that WOTC decide to bar cool features from martials despite them being perfectly designed them. If I was to create a "band-aid fix", I would create a feat where martial classes can choose and use one of these spells without casting them. Depending of the level of the chosen spell, you will need to have a certain combined level between your martial classes.
Feel free to express your annoyance for certain spells and how would you resolve their problems.
So you're saying "A guy with an iron sword should be able to do stuff equivalent to someone trained to bend the fabric of reality"?
They can. Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, Path of the Elements, Rangers and Paladins can already do a lot of this stuff. Martial characters without magic, are literally attempting to use raw force to replicate magic. And it always falls short until they adopt some of that magic.
Why? Because magic exists. Martial characters can still so some pretty amazing things but there's only so far you can push the limits of believability of a humanoid body, before you need magic to beef up the power.
So if you're feeling like Martials miss out because they can't use Magic... lean into the Magic subclasses.
The other day, I had a thought "how many spells are martial-like abilities?" Guess how much I found? 15? 20? 25? Nope. From between the PHB, TCoE and XGtE, I found about 38 spells that are martial-like abilities (see lists below).
Players Handbook (26 spells)
Tasha's Cauldron of Everything (4 spells)
Xanathar’s Guide to Everything (7 spells)
Considering that base D&D is in a high-fantasy setting, martials should be capable of the feats of extraordinary features. So, is it contradictory that martial warriors can exist and thrive in a world full of wizards, dragons and all sorts of eldritch abominations?
As you can tell, I am a bit annoyed that WOTC decide to bar cool features from martials despite them being perfectly designed them. If I was to create a "band-aid fix", I would create a feat where martial classes can choose and use one of these spells without casting them. Depending of the level of the chosen spell, you will need to have a certain combined level between your martial classes.
Feel free to express your annoyance for certain spells and how would you resolve their problems.
I’m not sure I understand what it is you’re complaining about. You give a long list of spells you say duplicate martial features (which I think is a bit reductive personally but we’ll go with it) and then complain that martials are barred from doing them. So which is it? Either these are just martial features with a different name, in which case they can already do them, or martial can’t do them in which case what was the point of the long list?
OP, it feels more like you are trying to argue "Martial classes need more cool things" but are phrasing it as if you are incensed that mages can do supernatural things. you would get more agreement from people if you said " Martials should get spell like abilities from their physical prowess."
Your problem doesn't seem to be with the spells, your problem seems to be that martials can't replicate them, But also they can, and I can't tell if you are annoyed that they can or they can't.
A Heavy Crossbow doesn't make Fire bolt or Eldritch Blast redundant. You can argue for martial classes to get better without putting down casters and their abilities.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
Dungeons and Dragons is a high fantasy adventure game that very quickly (around level 5-6) turns into a superhero power fantasy. That, in a word, is the game as these early levels are usually quite short in terms of a typical campaign. The majority of any D&D campaign is going to be between 5th and 12th level, and we already know that something like 98% of all D&D games played never go into higher levels than that anyway.
I do agree and find it odd, however, that the "superpowers", which typically come in the form of spells and spell-like class abilities, are denied to some very specific classes and sub-classes. In some cases, rendering them clearly "not super heroes", for example, the Fighter-Champions at any level.
I think, this is a kind of throwback to the idea where WOTC tries to suggest that "hey we are fantasy game, not a superheroes game", but given the design of the system, the sorts of powers most of the classess and sub-classes get, especially as they progress beyond level 5-6 this doesn't really hold up. It very much is a game of superheroes; we don't have the spandex pants and superhero names, but we certainly have all the superhero powers.
Strictly speaking, it's not possible to run 5e as a down-to-earth game about a medieval world, as was the case at lower levels in earlier editions (Pre 4th) without heavy editing to the system itself (ala Shadowdark for example). Still, some of that "low power" design and thinking is a sort of hangover from those early versions of the game. Its kind of like D&D 5e isn't 100% fully committing to the genre it very clearly is in just yet.
I do think after games like Draw Steel for example that show what "fully committing" to a power fantasy looks like, the next edition of the game will probably commit fully to the genre and its conversion from a Dungeon Delving Survival Game to a High Adventure Power Fantasy will be complete.
It's pretty close already, though, barring a couple of sub-classes, its kind of a done deal and since the vast majority of players that know 5e D&D don't pick those sub-classes anyway, it generally only matters in an analysis done on paper like the one you're doing.
I mean.. yes you're right, but no, it doesn't matter because no one picks those martial sub-classes when they play D&D anyway, and IF they do, they are very intentionally creating a "non-super hero" character in a super hero game, which again, is also not weird. I mean, even the Marvel Universe has its "regular dude" heroes like Hawkeye and Black Widow. In a way, there is room for such classes in D&D even as a superhero game and it still makes sense. It's not "balanced" per say, but neither is Captain Marvel vs. Iron Man. That doesn't mean they can't exist in the same story.
In a word, I don't think there is anything to fix. It's more like it just requires understanding the how and why of it.
A lot of these spells are actually on martial (Ranger and paladin) spell lists. It’s martials who cast them. Then throw in eldritch knights, and arcane tricksters and that’s practically the whole list.
So, I don’t understand the complaint. You want a martial who casts some spells, just play one. Problem solved.
Pounding the ground doesn't equal Thunder or Force Damage.
Also, OPs argument relies heavily on the "OtherStuffExists" fallacy.
Furthermore...at this point, if the argument is for "things can be flavored to be done by X Martial", OP...are you aware of Runesmith's College of Stolen Valor Bard? Because it's pretty much the converse to what you're proposing here.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
College of Stolen Valor Bard? What do they do, pretend to be paladins in order to get free drinks in taverns?
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaMVwA9RuYA
This video is partially sarcasm, but the proposal is a relevant parallel to "flavor means x can do y" idea of the OP.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
So you're saying "A guy with an iron sword should be able to do stuff equivalent to someone trained to bend the fabric of reality"?
They can. Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, Path of the Elements, Rangers and Paladins can already do a lot of this stuff. Martial characters without magic, are literally attempting to use raw force to replicate magic. And it always falls short until they adopt some of that magic.
Why? Because magic exists. Martial characters can still so some pretty amazing things but there's only so far you can push the limits of believability of a humanoid body, before you need magic to beef up the power.
So if you're feeling like Martials miss out because they can't use Magic... lean into the Magic subclasses.
Wait until you hear about the "Muscle Wizard" Barbarian Subclass. 🤣