Third Party Subclasses - 2024 Updates

Haven't found a thread yet via search and scanning the first few pages of General and Announcements, but all the third party subclasses got updated to be compatible with 2024 classes!

Exciting for my players who wanted to use Critical role subclasses like the Echo Knight but on the 2024 Fighter. Kind of a niche thing, but very much appreciated by me as a DM who likes to try to incorporate everything D&DB offers for my players to use.

Hells Yeah!

It was announced in the Changelog

Oh that's welcome news

EDIT: Has this already taken effect? The app isn’t showing the new options on the listings for each class

The one place I should’ve looked and didn’t. Thanks Dayvd

Yeah, these aren't new, 2024 versions of third party subclasses. They're the original 2014 versions integrated to work with 2024 base classes the same way the first-party subclasses were (such as School of Necromancy)

I realise they're not new but usually if you go to Listings on the app and look up classes you get all the compatible subclasses, including legacy ones that haven't been updated like the Rogue Swashbuckler, but these ones aren't showing. They're still listed under the Listing entry for 2014 classes, just not the 2024 ones

Now I’m curious, would weapon mastery traits apply to Echo Knight’s duplicate?  Judging by the flavor text of the subclass I’d allow, but I wonder if that would make an already pretty OP subclass too OP

According to the Unleash Incarnation feature:

“You can heighten your echo’s fury. Whenever you take the Attack action, you can make one additional melee attack from the echo’s position.

You can use this feature a number of times equal to your Constitution modifier (a minimum of once). You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.”

Feels like splitting hairs, but I’m going to drop it 

I’ve always interpreted the attack from the echo’s position as the echo making the attack because it made more sense than you teleporting back and forth, especially when you account for extra attack, action surge, and getting multiple echoes later on 

Great news!

Quite the coincidence that all these subclasses from different parties happened to become available at the same time if what was holding things up previously was those parties rather than wotc or dndbeyond.

Quote from Frachese >>

Great news!

Quite the coincidence that all these subclasses from different parties happened to become available at the same time if what was holding things up previously was those parties rather than wotc or dndbeyond.

They probably just wanted to push them all at the same time.

Quote from bthec18 >>

I’ve always interpreted the attack from the echo’s position as the echo making the attack because it made more sense than you teleporting back and forth, especially when you account for extra attack, action surge, and getting multiple echoes later on 

 The attack coming from the echo can be the narrative description, but the rules are specifically it's you attacking from the echoes position. The teleporting can also be narratively accounted for by describing it as the echo knight adjusting the time stream and changing the past so it they were always in the echoes position and vice-versa.

I would note that the fact that it's the character making the attack, not the echo, means that any once per turn mastery effects (such as cleave or nick) cannot be triggered by the echo's attack if they were already triggered by the character's attack.

Quote from bthec18 >>

I’ve always interpreted the attack from the echo’s position as the echo making the attack because it made more sense than you teleporting back and forth, especially when you account for extra attack, action surge, and getting multiple echoes later on 

 Very similar to what Davyd said, but basically the way Dunamis/Dunamancy works in Critical Role is it is all about "potential". Basically the echo is an aspect of your character from a different timeline that, in this case, made the decision to be on Point B instead of Point A (it's wibbley wobbly timey wimey stuff, so don't think too hard about it).

Your Echo IS YOU (but with different AC and can maybe hover depending on how you read the "On your turn, you can mentally command the echo to move up to 30 feet in any direction (no action required)."

So any weapon masteries you have, your echo has, because it's just you from a very slightly split timeline where you made a different decision on positioning (basically). You aren't teleporting, you're just attacking through the space you would have been in if you did something different.

I don't know if that helps, but that's how I see it as part of the Critical Role lore.